Diablo® III

[Guide] The Tempest Rush Compendium 1.0.8

@Pianoguy - I currently have 39% crit in my character panel, so with the SoJ its 44%. Either my character panel is bugged, or something is bugged with my profile.

Now I've gotten a Xeph neck which gives me a net dps loss of 20k, would you think that its better to equip my dps neck, and get Circular Breathing instead of Submission, or? And with my dps neck I get 45% crit, so one more crit + 20kdps oor MoC: Submission / Circular Breathing.

How much north of 120k? It would be good to know what I'm aiming for.
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In my long testing jouney, for mp0,1,2 :

good spirit regen Xhep + Mantra submission >>>>>>>>> good amulet that inc 20k + circular Breathing
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@Mendi - re crit chance, my only point is that going from 44% TR crit to 48-49% really seemed to make a difference for me. (Re-reading the relevant part of Druin's guide, I see that he put the breakpoint at about 42%.)

As for DPS: I just did some testing by taking out my gem so that I was running a unbuffed DPS of 123K. Took down most of the smaller mobs without too much difficulty as long as I did small "loops" as I was TR'ing past them.

I agree with PhoenixFire that MoC submission is really effective for mopping up stragglers along with cyclone. I really notice the difference on the odd occasion that I use MoH Circular breathing.
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Hey Druin,
Can you please let me know when you'll write the "Part 3 - So You Want to Tempest Rush but You Don't Want to Spend Any Money?" for the poor monks?

I guess we'll wait for 1.07 so that you can edit some stuff?
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In my long testing jouney, for mp0,1,2 :

good spirit regen Xhep + Mantra submission >>>>>>>>> good amulet that inc 20k + circular Breathing


Thans for the tip mate :-) I'l keep on doing that.

@Mendi - re crit chance, my only point is that going from 44% TR crit to 48-49% really seemed to make a difference for me. (Re-reading the relevant part of Druin's guide, I see that he put the breakpoint at about 42%.)

As for DPS: I just did some testing by taking out my gem so that I was running a unbuffed DPS of 123K. Took down most of the smaller mobs without too much difficulty as long as I did small "loops" as I was TR'ing past them.

I agree with PhoenixFire that MoC submission is really effective for mopping up stragglers along with cyclone. I really notice the difference on the odd occasion that I use MoH Circular breathing.


Ah, but at what point do you straight oneshot mobs?
Edited by Mendi#2600 on 1/30/2013 11:16 AM PST
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Hey guys! Moar answers to moar questions!

(Note: While I am writing this, I am eating vegetarian chili that my wife made and it is INSANELY good)

Druin - your TR guide/videos have made a huge difference in my paragon leveling and I'd just like to thank you for that.

I've been running a cyclone/submission-based TR build for a while now. I don't have the spirit regen to sustain infinite tempest rush with my current rune choices. I figure that stopping to attack a couple of demonic tremors every map is worth it to keep the damage spreading effects of submission and cyclones.

I'd appreciate your input on what I might do to upgrade my monk. Options that come to mind are: upgrading SoJ to 6-7% TR crit, a LS skorn or perhaps a xeph amulet.

Cheers.

Hello Pianoguy,

Thank you very much for the support! I am really glad that my guide/videos have been helpful to you!

I would like to point out, WOW NICE HELLFIRE RING!!!!!

With that said, I think that you have a really nice setup on your monk right now.

Note: I assume things have changed since you posted this as you currently DO have enough spir/sec to TR infinitely with some left-over! :D

If you really love the TR playstyle and you think that you might want to continue on with it passed plvl100, then here are some things that would help you out:
1. Getting a LS Skorn will eventually be a good idea. However, you have a REALLY high LoK skorn right now and that will really be enough to sustain you for quite some time.

2. The next "big move" I see for you is to switch out of OWE. It's a VERY painful experience and it costs a lot of gold for no "tangible" upgrade... but you will get to switch OWE out for Fleet Footed. You are at the DPS level where not having Fleet Footed is actually hurting your xp/hr and loot/hr.

This means AR on at least 3 of boots/helm/chest/belt/pants and at least one of gloves/bracers.

This switch will also set you up nicely to move into TR-hybrid specs which all call for more eHP than the basic MP0 TR build.

3. Lastly, you could look to get some other SoJ's. The real power of the TR build post plvl100 is that it supports ALL the other spirit-spender builds really well.

My current project is a MP1 (now) MP~5 (1.0.7) TR-Bells hybrid. This calls for a Bells SoJ instead of a TR crit SoJ.

Similarly a SW damage SoJ would be good for a Firestorm-based loot/hr build ... and I am sure there are specs out there that I haven't thought up yet! :D

So this is something to think about.

If, instead, you would like to get to plvl100 and then switch to the cookie-cutter, then you are set. Your build is easily good enough to net 80m xp/hr consistently and no more is needed on your way to 100.

Good luck!

I haven't read all of the posts on this thread because it is obviously pretty long, so this may have already been covered. Anyway, I was curious if loading the templar up with +xp items would make much difference. Obviously, only a fairly small amount of +xp from companion passes to the character, so you might only be able to get 20ish actual +xp. However, as I understand it, the +xp is applied before percentage based bonuses, so the Hellfire ring and helm ruby would probably make it closer to 30. I am pretty new to TRing, so I just don't have a feel for what kind of impact that would make.

Also, is there a way to make a game not open to your friends? I like my friends, but they keep jacking my farming.

Hello Lokust,

So let's assume, VERY generously, that you were able to get +50 total bonus xp per kill from your follower. (this is after the %bonus xp I mean)

My monk, who is already plvl100 and has been for some weeks now, has 1,465,230 monster kills.

IF you assume that somehow I had this +50 xp/kill stat for the entire lifetime of my monk, I would have received an additional: 1,465,230 * 50 = 73,261,500 xp.

Being as I was making, on average, ~87m xp/hr TRing, that would save me approximately 51 minutes of farming.

tl;dr - nope! :D

Second question: Yes, you can set your games to private and it will no longer allow people to join them without your invite. I highly recommend this option as TR is rather unforgiving when it comes to multiplayer.

Wow there is a Lot of Info in here.
Going to be reading all night but I was hoping you could look at my Newly built TR monk and offer some suggestions.

I just started to use TR. I can't seem to keep TR up all the time. Even with Templar as follower.

Hello Mudblogger2,

Welcome to the world of TR! It's a magical place and I hope you enjoy your stay!

If you are having trouble with spirit generation while TR'ing, let's take a look at your spirit profile:
Gain: 2.03 (hat) 0.33 (set) 3 (Circ) 2 (CoR) *1.47 (GP + Templar) = 10.82
Loss: 1.0 (APS) * 1+ 0.09 (pants) = 1.09 *10 = 10.9
Net: 10.82 - 10.9 = -0.08 spir/sec

So, we have you losing spirit (VERY LITTLE) every second you TR.

The problem with having almost identical spir/sec gain and loss is that TR has a nasty habit of tweaking out and "stutter-casting" fairly frequently. This means that if you are not running at a net-gain, you will almost certainly run out of Spirit after a given amount of time.

The two easiest solutions to this:
1. Drop OWE for ES. This will not only put you are ~1.4 spir/sec gain, it will also increase your max to 250 so that when you do stutter and lose a little spirit, you will not notice it before you find another elite pack to re-charge on.

This follows my Spec C build quite nicely.

2. Get an SoJ with any amount of spir/sec on it.
This is probably a worse choice because it will cost a fair amount and, worse, it will drop your dps by a TON. Your rare ring is super duper good.

If you do go this route, I REALLY recommend not skimping on the SoJ or you will end up losing xp/hr.

Look for a 1.4+ spir/sec 26%+ elite dmg 6%+ TR crit soj with 6% ele damage.

This would make your build fir my Spec A setup quite nicely!

Good luck!

Hi, I'm currently using a Spec A variant of the spec, and according to that one in order to achievme maximum potention one has to have 42% crit with SoJ TR. But with the SoJ I have 45, and there are still not a whole lot of Cyclones spawning. Is there something in my spec etc I've missed?

And I've got 121k dmg unbuffed, and still not oneshotting stuff. When does that happen?

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Mendi-2600/hero/24433037

EDIT: Now I've bought a Xeph neck, so now I'm going for the first variation skill. (I know that I'm lacking like 10k dps and a couple other minor stats, but I've got 104k.)

Thanks in advance to anyone who bothers answering. :-)

Hello Mendi,

I see that you and Pianoguy are getting some good points out there! So awesome! I love seeing other people really tackle the problems. BY FAR the best way to learn is to teach so if you ever have to opportunity to try and explain something, take it. You will learn so much by doing so.

I will answer the questions that I feel weren't already covered and give confirmation of points I agree with:

1. Cyclone spawning and CHC% breakpoints
There are two major issues at work here.
The first is that Cyclone "super-scales" with CHC which means that it has two multiplicative scalars. The result of this is that each additional 1% of CHC is MORE effective than the last 1%.

This means that going from 35-40% is LESS of a change than 40-45% and that is less than 45-50%.

This is what Pianoguy is alluding to when he says that the last few % of CHC seem to make more of a difference. That is because they do.

The second issue is that the Cyclone build simply never "feels" good. TR has a terrible Proc C compared with Spirit Gens and you will rarely get more than 1 Cyclone from a pack. You will frequently get 0 and just have to live with the fact that those mobs aren't going to die.

Trust me when I say that I hated this too. It took hours and hours and hours and hours of xp/hr calcs in front of my face before I actually believed that those few, lonely Cyclones were actually doing SO much work that they out-xp/hr'ed Firestorm.

Using the TR-Cyclone build is, at least in some way, a leap of faith. Unless you are running your own xp/hr calcs, you just have to believe that Cyclone is doing a LOT of work.

2. The idea of "1 shotting" mobs
I get asked this question A LOT. What DPS do I need to be at to 1 shot all the mobs?!?!

This is not nearly as easy to answer as you would think. You assume that you just get your "non crit" TR damage + "non crit" SW damage + Sub damage (does static damage) to be > max_mob_HP.

The problem is that SW does anywhere between a non-crit and a full-crit every second.

Example: let's say your SW does 10k damage on a non-crit and 50k damage on a crit.
Any given "tick" will be for some amount between 10k and 50k.

On average, if you have high CHC, it will hit for ~25k but that is just an average. There will be plenty of times it only hits for ~10k and fails to 1 shot.

This means to truly 1 shot EVERYTHING you will need the non-crit damage of your SW to be above a specific number and that is going to be REALLY hard to do because a LOT of your paperdoll DPS is from CHC and CHD both of which you would have to factor OUT before calculating this "non-crit" number.

For reference, this is the reason my Skorn has high DPS and relatively low CHD. Average damage is one of the only ways to make "1 shotting" more likely and "overkilling" less likely.

In my long testing jouney, for mp0,1,2 :

good spirit regen Xhep + Mantra submission >>>>>>>>> good amulet that inc 20k + circular Breathing

This is almost always true.

I actually went ahead and did the math so that you can compare "what if I gain xx DPS but lose submission?"

Find those calculations here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7763286321?page=1#4

Just plug in your DPS * the %DPS each skill gives and then plug in your NEW dps with the non-xeph ammy to all the skills you use without submission and calculate your total.

Sub is a LOT of damage so I would think the ammy would need to give north of 40k DPS to be worth it!

Hey Druin,
Can you please let me know when you'll write the "Part 3 - So You Want to Tempest Rush but You Don't Want to Spend Any Money?" for the poor monks?

I guess we'll wait for 1.07 so that you can edit some stuff?

Hey QHTran,

From my second "current events" update:
I am sorry to say, but I think I will be giving up on my pursuit of making a low-end spec for TR that costs <1m.

I know I promised I would, but it feels like a very un-fulfilling prospect for me right now and I have so many other avenues that I am eager to explore.

Part of the reason I am okay doing this, is an excellent <1m TR guide was recently published by Hawk#1251.
Link: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7710222555

I will be changing the section for my <1m guide to a loot/hr and Bells/TR hybrid section come 1.0.7 because that is what I am currently working on.

To be totally honest, it's hard to get motivated to hop on my second monk for xp/hr testing at all ... so future updates from me, aside from keeping the current guide up-to-date with patch changes, will revolve more around loot/hr and less around xp/hr.

Sorry :(
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Thanks Druin - you are a gamer and a gentleman, and, I think it's fair to say, the High Priest of Temple Rush. HPTR - you heard it here first.

Those are all great suggestions: I am going try and find an affordable LS skorn and perhaps an SoJ for post-1.07 Bells. As for dropping OWE, that's going to be a long (really long) term project. I'm going to need the RNG gods to smile upon my monk-ette like they did for my hellfire (or "my precious...")
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Hey Druin
Would you mind telling me what you would recommend? I have the X amulet with poor spirit regen but putting it on gives me 80k dps which is really low. I have a bit over 120million, what would you recommend me on investing to level faster to p100? I spent over 80 and bought a lot of the wrong things like low spirit SoJ, none AR gear, etc etc and dont want to do it again. If needed and would hate to do it but I really am getting anxious to hit p100 is to buy gold but but but.. i mean only if I absolutely have to.
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@Druin,
thanks dude, sorry should've read the opening post again ... it has been a while
I normally just scroll to the poor man's section to see if it's up yet lol
I'll go and check out Hawk's guide then
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Looking through this guide and the 1.0.7 addition, I saw no notes of xp/hr min/max calculations including Leoric's Signet on a follower (usually templar). Is there any particular reason for this? Should followers, for example, be running a gear combination that includes only Hellfire for rings?
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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01/31/2013 01:36 PMPosted by Nightstormer
Looking through this guide and the 1.0.7 addition, I saw no notes of xp/hr min/max calculations including Leoric's Signet on a follower (usually templar). Is there any particular reason for this? Should followers, for example, be running a gear combination that includes only Hellfire for rings?


It is always, 100% of the time, better to put a leoric's on your follower!

However, I never really got up the gold reserves to essentially light a pile of money on fire for an extra ~1m xp/hr on average :D

Good catch, though. Min/max wise, your follower's items mean literally nothing and Leoric's >>>>>> all other possible non-hellfire ring choices.
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Yes, follower's Leoric's aren't quite the greatest investment xp/hr-wise. Though I would've expected it to be closer to 2m xp/hr:

Your comments on Leoric XP calculations, which I believe to be entirely correct, from questions in the comment section of this guide:

====================================

Math:
You SHOULD use a ruby in helm (31% bonus xp) and a hellfire ring (35% bonus xp) and NV stacks give between 0% and 75% bonus xp.

Without Leoric's you have 166% to 241% bonus xp during any given run.

=============================================

Some additional notes:

Follower bonus flat and percentage XP apply at 20% reduction rate. For example, Hellfire Rings roll 35% bonus xp so placing one on a follower yields 35% * 20% = .35 * .20 = .07 = 7% This means that with a (radiant star, not marquise) ruby in helm (31% bonus xp), a hellfire ring (35% bonus xp), a follower hellfire ring (7% bonus xp) and varying NV stacks (0-75% in 15% increments) percentage XP gained increases from the 166-241% xp range noted above to 173-248% xp range. I believe this to be correct, because it is consistent with the notes in your 1.0.7 addendum.

====================================

Example:
You have Hellfire Ring, Radiant Star Ruby in hat, Hellfire ring on Templar and 5 Stacks of NV.
That is 35% + 31% + 7% + 75% bonus xp = 148% bonus xp.

For each 1 xp you would get normally, you will instead get 1 * (1+ 1.48) = 2.48 xp.

=============================================

Now I will assume the use of a 30% bonus XP Leoric as this is a discussion regarding min/max.

This gives 30% * 20% = .30 * .20 = .06 = 6% bonus xp. This increases xp percentage ranges further from 173-248% to 179-254%. However, the specific bonus XP percentage doesn't mean anything in terms of xp/hr unless we have a baseline xp/hr for comparison.

As this ongoing calculation is, again, min/max, I will use the highest xp/hr that that I understood you to regard as a safe general expectation, the xp/hr from your youtube timed run, which you calculated at 86,831,052 xp/hr at ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27pVrEbME9s#t=20m40s ).

There are three brief notes about using xp/hr numbers from this video.

I selected the run with the highest xp/hr. I'm assuming this can be done consistently. As I'd of heard TR monks regarded to be in the 90mil xp/hr range I believe this is a safe assumption.

While you did not take precision beyond seconds into account in your calculation, I'm going to defer to your expertise in this sphere and understand that as a convention for xp/hr calculations given the degree of potential human error involved.

Thirdly, for your follower's rings, as you have a Hellfire Ring on all followers on your armory page and included follower Hellfire bonus xp percentage in your 1.0.7 calculations, I will assume you were using a follower Hellfire. Likewise, as you have no Leoric's on any followers on your armory and have stated "However, I never really got up the gold reserves to essentially light a pile of money on fire for an extra ~1m xp/hr on average :D" I will assume you were not using a follower Leorics.

So, at 173-248% xp you earned 86,831,052 xp/hr. Increasing this range to 179-254% confers a 254/248 to 179/173 ~= 1.02 to 1.03 scalar increase. To establish a lower bound on the xp/hr increase, we will use the lower of the two ratios, the one valid at 5 NV stacks, 254/248. The new xp/hr could therefore be expected to be at a minimum 86,831,052 * 254 / 248 = 88,931,803 (truncated to integer) xp/hr. The difference in xp/hr is then AT MINIMUM 88,931,803 - 86,831,052 = 2,100,751 xp/hr.

In general, xp/hr difference is given by the range 6/248 * xp/hr to 6/173 *xp/hr.

TL;DR: Follower's Leorics confer at least an additional 2m xp/hr on an endgame TR monk xp farming on Druin's route. In general, they provide greater than a 2% increase in xp/hr unless you are using a Cain's set.

Thank you Druin, for a very professional and complete guide.
Edited by Nightstormer#1772 on 1/31/2013 8:00 PM PST
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Video 6: Skill Mechanics Video
http://youtu.be/eLJEHLrN3v8

In this video I detail some of the mechanics of the various skills used in the Tempest Rush build.


How do you think TR builds will be impacted by the 1.07 patch change noted that Cyclones will start to spawn in the direction you are facing on-the-fly? This build seems to really shine with cyclones picking up the stragglers, how do you think that will change when the cyclones go forward instead of "relatively" backward, based on your snapshotted direction?
Edited by KParzival#1124 on 2/1/2013 1:53 PM PST
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Video 6: Skill Mechanics Video
http://youtu.be/eLJEHLrN3v8

In this video I detail some of the mechanics of the various skills used in the Tempest Rush build.


How do you think TR builds will be impacted by the 1.07 patch change noted that Cyclones will start to spawn in the direction you are facing on-the-fly? This build seems to really shine with cyclones picking up the stragglers, how do you think that will change when the cyclones go forward instead of "relatively" backward, based on your snapshotted direction?


Great question!

As soon as I get a chance, I will be looking into the effect of Cyclone directional spawn on TR clear speeds and xp/hr!

My intuition tells me it is a nerf, but highly outshined by all the buffs and so TR'ers will see a net increase in their effectiveness.

Stay tuned! :D
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Well written guide, Druin. I have finally purchased a Life Steal Skorn and now my journey begins to upgrading my SOJ to about 1.75 spirit regen with 6-7 crit to Tempest Rush. Question I have been pondering the past few days... Do you think using Ice Climbers as a means for double res as an alternative to gloves and bracers if you're trying to up your DPS but cant afford good(high all res) Zunimassa's Trail? Love to hear some input on that.
Edited by Stevie#1782 on 2/2/2013 8:22 PM PST
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Hey guys, just a heads up, I have not stopped replying to this thread.

I am currently in Disneyland with the Wife and I will be back on Thursday, ready to answer questions!

Have a wonderful time until then ;)

-Druin, the happy monk (from the happiest place on earth!)
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DISNEYLAND!!!! I have this hilarious image of you tempest rushing to the front of every line and consuming massive quantities of cotton candy to regen spirit. Everyone else looks dazed and confused!

In other news, I thought I'd provide some feedback (and subtle bump).

I finally purchased a LS skorn (was looking for a nice one since before you upgraded, Druin, but they went up like rockets after you announced you were gonna get one! Yes, i've been shopping for a looooong time). I can report it's definitely easier (esp vs. reflect, which i can ignore now--yay!), but not as much as I thought it would be. The good LS skorns may not be worth the price right now compared to other upgrades for most monks.

Second, I finally made the switch to scoundrel from templar. And, I lubs him! Extra dps and cc is totally noticeable. So is the damage he delivers at ~20k dps via multishot. There's always a tradeoff though. In this case, i think I'm probably giving up fleet footed for a spirit regen passive in order to generate sufficient spirit with scoundrel. Ultimately scoundrel could be the less efficient choice, but i'm just glad to hear a different voice and get some variety!

~Vox
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Egads, forgot to mention my main question:

Has anyone looked at overawe vs. submission again on 1.07 PTR? It would seem that as proportion of total damage done by TR increases, overawe improves vs. submission. Since the TR buff currently proposed is so huge, I'm wondering if overawe may win out?

I'm also thinking it could make more sense to run overawe at higher MP since submission's range would be less important (i.e., you'd actually have to stand next to Elites using some sort of generator or spender to DPS them down. If large, these sources of damage would benefit greatly from overawe).

Would be sad if the submission rune gets universally beaten by overawe because it was so awesome to use something besides overawe!!
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Dang Vox your Xeph is awesome.
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Dr.Uin, you still in Disneyland area?
wanna come have a drink with me here in Hollywood? >:D
lol jk, haha. xP

note : awesome, right on post #700, hehehe. >;)
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