Diablo® III

[Guide] The Tempest Rush Compendium 1.0.8

- Diablo III (Monk)
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I am back from Disneyland! It was soooooooooooooooooo fun!!! :D

Now, for your questions:
Hey Druin
Would you mind telling me what you would recommend? I have the X amulet with poor spirit regen but putting it on gives me 80k dps which is really low. I have a bit over 120million, what would you recommend me on investing to level faster to p100? I spent over 80 and bought a lot of the wrong things like low spirit SoJ, none AR gear, etc etc and dont want to do it again. If needed and would hate to do it but I really am getting anxious to hit p100 is to buy gold but but but.. i mean only if I absolutely have to.

Hello AryBrit,

I am sorry that it has taken me so long to respond to your question so hopefully you still get this!

1.
The road to plvl100 is a long long long long one even with maxed out, perfect TR gear getting 100m xp/hr.

It will take weeks and weeks of non-stop farming to get there in the best of circumstances.

I don't tell you this to discourage you just to give you a clear picture. Plvl100 is a great goal to have but it is also a very long term goal. I would sincerely recommend focusing on a shorter-term goal such as "saving enough gold to buy X item" or "get my run-time down to Y seconds"

These sorts of short-term goals can make the grind to plvl100 feel much less tiresome!

2.
Generally, 80k DPS is too low to get good xp/hr out of a TR build.

If you have a rare ammy that puts you over 100k dps then I would use it with one of hte mid-tier builds.

I would be happy to discuss this gearing choice in more depth with you in-game if you want some more specific guidance! :D

Yes, follower's Leoric's aren't quite the greatest investment xp/hr-wise. Though I would've expected it to be closer to 2m xp/hr:

Your comments on Leoric XP calculations, which I believe to be entirely correct, from questions in the comment section of this guide:

====================================

Math:
You SHOULD use a ruby in helm (31% bonus xp) and a hellfire ring (35% bonus xp) and NV stacks give between 0% and 75% bonus xp.

Without Leoric's you have 166% to 241% bonus xp during any given run.

=============================================

Some additional notes:

Follower bonus flat and percentage XP apply at 20% reduction rate. For example, Hellfire Rings roll 35% bonus xp so placing one on a follower yields 35% * 20% = .35 * .20 = .07 = 7% This means that with a (radiant star, not marquise) ruby in helm (31% bonus xp), a hellfire ring (35% bonus xp), a follower hellfire ring (7% bonus xp) and varying NV stacks (0-75% in 15% increments) percentage XP gained increases from the 166-241% xp range noted above to 173-248% xp range. I believe this to be correct, because it is consistent with the notes in your 1.0.7 addendum.

====================================

Example:
You have Hellfire Ring, Radiant Star Ruby in hat, Hellfire ring on Templar and 5 Stacks of NV.
That is 35% + 31% + 7% + 75% bonus xp = 148% bonus xp.

For each 1 xp you would get normally, you will instead get 1 * (1+ 1.48) = 2.48 xp.

=============================================

Now I will assume the use of a 30% bonus XP Leoric as this is a discussion regarding min/max.

This gives 30% * 20% = .30 * .20 = .06 = 6% bonus xp. This increases xp percentage ranges further from 173-248% to 179-254%. However, the specific bonus XP percentage doesn't mean anything in terms of xp/hr unless we have a baseline xp/hr for comparison.

As this ongoing calculation is, again, min/max, I will use the highest xp/hr that that I understood you to regard as a safe general expectation, the xp/hr from your youtube timed run, which you calculated at 86,831,052 xp/hr at ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27pVrEbME9s#t=20m40s ).

There are three brief notes about using xp/hr numbers from this video.

I selected the run with the highest xp/hr. I'm assuming this can be done consistently. As I'd of heard TR monks regarded to be in the 90mil xp/hr range I believe this is a safe assumption.

While you did not take precision beyond seconds into account in your calculation, I'm going to defer to your expertise in this sphere and understand that as a convention for xp/hr calculations given the degree of potential human error involved.

Thirdly, for your follower's rings, as you have a Hellfire Ring on all followers on your armory page and included follower Hellfire bonus xp percentage in your 1.0.7 calculations, I will assume you were using a follower Hellfire. Likewise, as you have no Leoric's on any followers on your armory and have stated "However, I never really got up the gold reserves to essentially light a pile of money on fire for an extra ~1m xp/hr on average :D" I will assume you were not using a follower Leorics.

So, at 173-248% xp you earned 86,831,052 xp/hr. Increasing this range to 179-254% confers a 254/248 to 179/173 ~= 1.02 to 1.03 scalar increase. To establish a lower bound on the xp/hr increase, we will use the lower of the two ratios, the one valid at 5 NV stacks, 254/248. The new xp/hr could therefore be expected to be at a minimum 86,831,052 * 254 / 248 = 88,931,803 (truncated to integer) xp/hr. The difference in xp/hr is then AT MINIMUM 88,931,803 - 86,831,052 = 2,100,751 xp/hr.

In general, xp/hr difference is given by the range 6/248 * xp/hr to 6/173 *xp/hr.

TL;DR: Follower's Leorics confer at least an additional 2m xp/hr on an endgame TR monk xp farming on Druin's route. In general, they provide greater than a 2% increase in xp/hr unless you are using a Cain's set.

Thank you Druin, for a very professional and complete guide.

This kind of post warms my heart!

The formatting and thoroughness of your post is exactly what I love to see in any comprehensive-style explanation.

If you wouldn't mind, as my guide was lacking this information previously, I would love to use your post, pretty much as-is, in the main-guide and then credit you so that people can see the actual math behind using +%bonus xp jewelry on their follower!

Let me know (though I will take no response as consent in a couple of days!) ;)

Also, thank you very much for the support!!

02/02/2013 08:20 PMPosted by Stevie
Well written guide, Druin. I have finally purchased a Life Steal Skorn and now my journey begins to upgrading my SOJ to about 1.75 spirit regen with 6-7 crit to Tempest Rush. Question I have been pondering the past few days... Do you think using Ice Climbers as a means for double res as an alternative to gloves and bracers if you're trying to up your DPS but cant afford good(high all res) Zunimassa's Trail? Love to hear some input on that.

Hello Stevie,

I am really glad you liked my guide! :D

Grats on your LS Skorn and good luck with the SoJ hunt, it can take a while but I am sure you will find one!

As for your Ice Climbers question, I think it is a totally viable item.

Here are my concerns regarding IC's:
1.
You either lose 12% Move speed or you pay a TON of gold for MS IC's.
This is the biggest problem because the entire point of TR is to move fast. If you give up MS for a couple extra stats, you are probably not gaining the most out of this build.

If you do choose to go with non-MS IC's you are pretty much forced to get Lacu's. However, Lacu's with CHC cost a TON and you are now dealing with an extra 8-9% IAS which means you need mroe spir/sec.

This isn't the worst thing in the world and I think there is probably a REALLY end-game TR build out there using ultra-high dex IC's + really good Lacu's ... but it's a lot more expensive than Zuni's + Rare bracers imo.

Note: in 1.0.7 this becomes even more true with the advent of BoA bracers that spawn with 200-230 Dex and present a BiS possibility when combine with Zuni boots.

2.
It is really hard for IC's to out-dps or even compete with Zuni's.
The 7-8% poison damage on Zuni's is a LOT of DPS when combine with your black-damage Skorn and the only stat that IC's has to compete with is massive amounts of Dex.

TR is a naturally Dex-starved build because of its need for lots of Spir/sec gear, so the dex on IC's is better than it would be otherwise, but it is still hard to compete with flat +% damage.

All in all, I much prefer Zuni's but IC's have so much more eHP that I can totally understand using them instead.

Great question!

02/05/2013 10:26 PMPosted by Vox
DISNEYLAND!!!! I have this hilarious image of you tempest rushing to the front of every line and consuming massive quantities of cotton candy to regen spirit. Everyone else looks dazed and confused!

Hello there Vox,

I wish ... instead we waited a total of 2.5 hours in line for the Peter Pan ride (my wife's favorite) which we went on 3 times!

It was all worth it though, she is sooooooooo happy! :D

I finally purchased a LS skorn (was looking for a nice one since before you upgraded, Druin, but they went up like rockets after you announced you were gonna get one! Yes, i've been shopping for a looooong time). I can report it's definitely easier (esp vs. reflect, which i can ignore now--yay!), but not as much as I thought it would be. The good LS skorns may not be worth the price right now compared to other upgrades for most monks.

I find this very interesting.

Can you explain what you felt was "not as much" as you thought it would be?

I only ask because my personal experience is that with LS on my Skorn I can sleep-tank MP0-10 and without it I die frequently as soon as I either meet a hard pack or move the MP dial above 3.

This is with LOTS of eHP and AR and Armor and such.

I agree that the prices on LS Skorns are possibly unreasonably high right now, but it is also the only weapon that fits an entire build-structure. I use my Skorn when TRing MP0, TR/bells'ing MP1 VotA, TR/Cookie-cutter'ing MP6 keys and Cookie-cutter/bells'ing MP10.

It is the only weapon I have and the only weapon I need. I do not feel like any other item in my kit (other than my Inna's helm) provides that level of comprehensive use.

For this reason, I generally recommend a LS Skorn as the first and most important "BiS" purchase for Monks who are in love with the TR lifestyle.

Second, I finally made the switch to scoundrel from templar. And, I lubs him! Extra dps and cc is totally noticeable. So is the damage he delivers at ~20k dps via multishot. There's always a tradeoff though. In this case, i think I'm probably giving up fleet footed for a spirit regen passive in order to generate sufficient spirit with scoundrel. Ultimately scoundrel could be the less efficient choice, but i'm just glad to hear a different voice and get some variety!

This I agree with wholeheartedly!

Because of the way CHC works (each additional 1% CHC is MORE effective than the last 1%) the 3% gained from the Scoundrel is a much larger DPS increase than your paperdoll indicates. (assuming you are using SW:Cyclone)

The Scoundrel also does far far far far higher DPS, when properly geared, than any other follower and that can net you some extra xp.

The only reason I don't talk about the follower is that people have SO much trouble with spirit as-is, I figure they don't need to worry about another source of dropping spir/sec for more DPS.

That is a problem only a very few of us are dealing with! :D

Has anyone looked at overawe vs. submission again on 1.07 PTR? It would seem that as proportion of total damage done by TR increases, overawe improves vs. submission. Since the TR buff currently proposed is so huge, I'm wondering if overawe may win out?

I can pretty easily show this calculation.
Here are the numbers taken directly from my 1.0.7 effects post:
This gives the following Scalars to damage:
TR - 1
SW - 2.5
SW:IS - 2.5
SW:F - 4.42
SW:C - 6.0
Submission - 8.5

End-game spec in 1.0.7:
TR = 155% * [1 + 015 (BW) + 0.12 (Sub)] * [1 (scalar)] = 196.9%
SW:C = 60% * [1 + 015 (BW) + 0.12 (Sub)] * [6 (scalar)] = 457.2%
Sub = 12% * [1 + 015 (BW) + 0.12 (Sub)] * [8.5 (scalar)] = 129.5%
Total DPS = 783.6%

End-game spec with Overawe in 1.0.7:
TR = 155% * [1 + 015 (BW) + 0.24 (OA)] * [1 (scalar)] = 215.45%
SW:C = 60% * [1 + 015 (BW) + 0.24 (OA)] * [6 (scalar)] = 500.4%
Total DPS = 715.85%

Net Difference = 783.6 - 715.85 = 67.75%
Net Change = 67.75 / 783.6 = 8.65%

You will lose about 8.65% total damage done.

Note: these numbers are probably a bit off because MoC does NOT effect all mobs that Cyclone hits due to Cyclone hitting things off screen. This will further tip the scales in favor of Submission as the 24% damage buff from Overawe will have less of an effect.

So you lose 8.65% total damage done but you gain damage done to Elite packs.

How does this weigh in?

Let's take my average run on my way to plvl100. This run took 6 minutes and gave ~8.7m xp for an average xp/hr of 87m.

Let's assume I spend ~1.75 minutes of the run killing elites.
(If you think this number if wrong, as I am just guessing, then adjust the following numbers for a more accurate calculation)

Because I would do 8.65% less damage, I would expect to get 8.65% less xp.
8.7m / 1.0865 = 8.01m xp/run.

Now, we can expect the runs to be faster because we kill elites more quickly.

In order for my new 8.01m xp runs to be better than my old runs they must be at least 1.0865 times faster.
6 min / 1.0865 = 5.52 minutes

However, this increased speed must all come from killing elites faster which means you must now spend 6 - 5.52 = 0.48
1.75 - 0.48 = 1.27 minutes killing elites.

This is a 1.75 / 1.27 = 38% decrease in time spent killing elites.

Therefore: If Overawe allows you to kill elites more than 38% faster, it will increase your xp/hr over Submission in 1.0.7.

Obviously there are a LOT of soft-assumptions made in order to make these numbers calculable but I would expect them to hold up reasonably well when testing.

My conclusion here is that this is VERY rarely going to be the case. You would have to be in some very extreme conditions for Overawe to allow your elite kill speed to increase by 38%.

tl;dr - no, I do not think that Overawe will beat out Submission in 1.0.7 for xp/hr.

I'm also thinking it could make more sense to run overawe at higher MP since submission's range would be less important (i.e., you'd actually have to stand next to Elites using some sort of generator or spender to DPS them down. If large, these sources of damage would benefit greatly from overawe).

This is much more possible, though I still doubt it is the case.

At some point, when looking for loot/demonic essences, it may become worthwhile to reduce the amount of trash you kill to increase the amount of MF/item drops you have (increase MP level).

When this is the case, Submission's passive DPS will be of GREATLY reduced effect because trash mobs will become a much smaller portion of your desired kill spectrum.

However, I still think that Overawe will have a hard time making it into the list of desired TR skills.

The reason for this is that Overawe is essentially a spirit spender that scales with Attack Speed (it scales with all damage increases actually ... but IAS is one of the big 3) while TR inversely scales with Attack Speed.

This means that TR monks will almost ALWAYS gravitate to spirit spenders that do NOT scale with attack speed so that they can continue to get the most out of TR while also gaining a lot from other skills.

For example: I was faced with the choice between MoH:Circ + Bells vs MoC:Overawe + Spirit Generator (WotHF:FoF being the highest DPS when not using SW:C) when killing elites in my VotA run and, even before 1.0.7, Bells + Circ CLEARLY wins that war.

This is because Bells, like TR, do not scale with Attack Speed and so I get 100% efficiency from my gear-set while I miss a HUGE chunk of "easy" damage with Overawe by specifically avoiding most sources of IAS.

That being said, Overawe + WotHF:FoF was not terrible and I used it for quite some time before switching to my Bells spec. I was able to get pretty good elites/min.

Dr.Uin, you still in Disneyland area?
wanna come have a drink with me here in Hollywood? >:D
lol jk, haha. xP

note : awesome, right on post #700, hehehe. >;)

Hello Count,

Welcome back to the forums. (I don't think I was here for your homecoming post, though I did read your poem and found it quite enjoyable!)

Sadly, I am no longer down south and am back to the daily grind that is work! :D

P.S. Grats on #700, I expect to see you 77 posts from now! ;)
Edited by Druin#1518 on 2/7/2013 12:59 PM PST
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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I also fixed the formatting to my guide, please let me know if anyone spots any mistakes so I can edit them out! :D
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Hello Druin!

Just dropping in to say thanks for your awesome work with this guide! I do not agree on that you need LS to make it viable, but rest is really good ;) It sure has helped a lot of people!

Myself, I'm playing with some extra health from globes and about 14+ pickup radius as only sustain and for reflect dmg I press SSS and the pack is gone! (I have enough DPS without Blind, still using Breath of Heaven though). Also skipping the Xephirian for a Mara's with 10%cc and 4% ccTR. Works perfectly, but to really have infinite spirit I had to skip fleet footed for exalted soul. Still, Alkaizer in 8-9 min isn't bad.

Would ofc be even easier with a LS skorn, but I rather save my 200 million for the future when my monk works like a charm :)
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Welcome back Druin.

Couple of questions if you can help me out. In your guide for high end TR, you recommend 130k dps. I just don't see how i can squeeze 30k more dpd into my gear, any advice? Running with a friend, without templar i need to use inner storm. Also, i dont seem to spawn much cyclones, at 42cc atm.

Looking forward for your kind advice and also sent you a friend request. Thank you in advance.
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sorry Druin. my TR'ing was once again short-lived. i have now sold a couple of my pieces and am speed-running MP3 with a different build. I still attest your build is the fastest lvl'ing thing going.

it was fun while it lasted. maybe i'll come back for a visit someday!

fyi, bought my 2.5 spirit regen helm a only a few weeks ago at 30 million, sold it a couple days ago at 70 million!
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02/07/2013 01:48 PMPosted by KriegNoobie
any advice?


While you're waiting for Druin, thought I should jump in a short round ;)
I saw you already have 3 paragon 100 (impressive) so I guess you have a quite nice budget.

Helm. You can get an Inna's with at least 50 more dex
Armor. Here you could also add about 50 more dex.
Boots. Pick up a pair of Zunimassa, they have a nice +dmg bonus.
Gloves. Here you could gain the most I believe. There are gloves with 2-300 dex, high crit chance and crit dmg with allures for about 30 mill.
Skorn. Expensive, but you can get one with 1450 dps and higher and still with LS.

I am envious of several parts of your gear, and I still manage 150 k dps. Having 70 more paragon lvls than your monk does ofc help. But it'll be possible for you :)
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Getting crazy rubberbanding and DC's while TR'ing today. Fix it Druin, it's your spec.
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^^ I tried TRing last night (about 10h ago) and it was unplayable.

I wish I could get higher AR with my highest DPS TR set. 170k dpsTR just destroys everything.
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^^ I tried TRing last night (about 10h ago) and it was unplayable.

I wish I could get higher AR with my highest DPS TR set. 170k dpsTR just destroys everything.


250k dps TR'ing is pretty fun too.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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02/07/2013 02:59 PMPosted by Narcolepsy
Getting crazy rubberbanding and DC's while TR'ing today. Fix it Druin, it's your spec.


On it.

Sorry Narc, I may have to bring the servers down for a bit to perform maintenance though.
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Faffner, thks for your reply bro. Huge dps from your Mara's n yellow ring. I need my hellring, guess i have to farm more ubers for an ave dmg, 6cc n cd hellring. :(
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I'd like to chime in on the LS Skorn discussion. I've been without LS for quite a while now. I think LS would be nice but is unnecessary with a good life pool and some other form of life replenishment. I have 2878life/kill and +11 pickup. I kill reflect packs with TC while quaffing a potion and BoH. But this is MP0.
But I have tried higher MP. I have enough killing power but the life/kill and orbs just doesn't do it. This is why I am currently shopping for a LS Skorn. I've tried LOH too but the proc rate is just too low with either TC or TR.

In summary MP0 is fine without a LS skorn, and you can get big ones cheap. Anything higher, even MP1 becomes hard you really need LS.
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Hi Druin
I agree Submission is still going to be better than Overawe in 1.07 but I think the difference is smaller than that. I don't think MoC works that way. It's a debuff on monsters, not a +skill damage. So for example TR :
TR = 155% * [1 + 0.15 (BW)] * [1 + 0.12 (MoC Sub)] * [1 (scalar)] = 199.6%
TR = 155% * [1 + 0.15 (BW)] * [1 + 0.24 (MoC OA)] * [1 (scalar)] = 221.0%
Also note Overawe will boost follower damage more than Submission.
Of course if you are at all refreshing MoC during combat this is going to swing the favour to Overawe drastically. But I don't think this will happen in a TR build.

Also monsters being off screen or out of MoC range makes no difference in comparing Overawe vs Submission. They both have the same range.
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I finally purchased a LS skorn (was looking for a nice one since before you upgraded, Druin, but they went up like rockets after you announced you were gonna get one! Yes, i've been shopping for a looooong time). I can report it's definitely easier (esp vs. reflect, which i can ignore now--yay!), but not as much as I thought it would be. The good LS skorns may not be worth the price right now compared to other upgrades for most monks.

I find this very interesting.

Can you explain what you felt was "not as much" as you thought it would be?


Sure. I expected my life bub to go up noticeably faster than it had been going up with my 1370, 180CD, ~350 dex skorn. With my new LS skorn, it does not. Perhaps this is because i have been running for a long time with health globe bonus and pickup, which has done the job satisfactorily for 160 paragon.

The biggest benefit has been vs. reflect and against higher monster power (fewer globes per time).

I in no way regret purchasing my sparkly new LS skorn, but I expected to notice more of a difference on MP 0.

My suggestion was that for most monks, LS skorn may not be the best bang for their buck with respect to loot/xp per time. In 1.06, BBFYB might go to a high DPS/dex skorn with alternative sustain.

EDIT: Thanks for explaining the overawe vs. submission math. It makes sense. I need reminding where the scalars came from... Are they based on area? I'll check out the 1.07 thread again later.
Edited by Vox#1186 on 2/7/2013 11:19 PM PST
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I'd like to chime in on the LS Skorn discussion. I've been without LS for quite a while now. I think LS would be nice but is unnecessary with a good life pool and some other form of life replenishment. I have 2878life/kill and +11 pickup. I kill reflect packs with TC while quaffing a potion and BoH. But this is MP0.
But I have tried higher MP. I have enough killing power but the life/kill and orbs just doesn't do it. This is why I am currently shopping for a LS Skorn. I've tried LOH too but the proc rate is just too low with either TC or TR.

In summary MP0 is fine without a LS skorn, and you can get big ones cheap. Anything higher, even MP1 becomes hard you really need LS.


Almost identical experience here, agree 100%. Pretty much each reflector pack would eat a potion and a BoH.
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Hey Druin,
Excellent guide I must say. I was wondering if your route from arreat 2, rakkis, FOS, then Keep 2 will change with the upcoming patch since we will able to to keep our stacks throughout all acts?
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Hello Druin!

Just dropping in to say thanks for your awesome work with this guide! I do not agree on that you need LS to make it viable, but rest is really good ;) It sure has helped a lot of people!

Myself, I'm playing with some extra health from globes and about 14+ pickup radius as only sustain and for reflect dmg I press SSS and the pack is gone! (I have enough DPS without Blind, still using Breath of Heaven though). Also skipping the Xephirian for a Mara's with 10%cc and 4% ccTR. Works perfectly, but to really have infinite spirit I had to skip fleet footed for exalted soul. Still, Alkaizer in 8-9 min isn't bad.

Would ofc be even easier with a LS skorn, but I rather save my 200 million for the future when my monk works like a charm :)

Hello Faffner,

Thanks for the support!

Please keep in mind, I do not think nor say that LS is REQUIRED on your Skorn in order to TR.

I simply believe that it is the best possible random roll Skorn can have for this build.

Given an infinite budget, I would not expect anyone to take any other stat over LS and therefore it is the best.

All three of my mid-tier guides do not use LS skorns in their setups because for ~25m cost builds LS is simply too expensive.

Welcome back Druin.

Couple of questions if you can help me out. In your guide for high end TR, you recommend 130k dps. I just don't see how i can squeeze 30k more dpd into my gear, any advice? Running with a friend, without templar i need to use inner storm. Also, i dont seem to spawn much cyclones, at 42cc atm.

Looking forward for your kind advice and also sent you a friend request. Thank you in advance.

Hello Krieg,

First off, GRATS on having 3x plvl100 toons... that is truly amazing.
I sincerely hope that I can help you bump that number up to 4! :D

I did accept your friends request in game so if you see me online (and not AFK) shoot me a message and we can chat!

As for your questions:
How to get your DPS up?
1. Zuni boots
These boots will provide exactly the same stats as your nats + an additional 8% Ele damage.
The 8% damage should be ~9-10k paperdoll DPS.

2. ~50% more CHD and ~20-50 more DPS on your Skorn
This will provide a very large DPS increase (though I do not know how large)

3. If those two options don't get you passed the 130k dps marker (I think they will) you are left with some less desirable options.
+100 Dex on gloves. This should be good for ~5k DPS and will almost 100% require you to drop some eHP.
Secondary DPS stat Xeph. This is probably the most difficult item to get for the TR build but a high CHC +dex or +avg dmg or +CHD xeph ammy would be good for another ~10-15k dps.

Lastly you mentioned Cyclone spawn rate.

I will tell you the same thing I tell most monks who are newer to the TR playstyle:
Cyclone does not FEEL good. It is only good from a mathematical standpoint. Because it does so much of its job off screen, you will often feel like it is a wasted skill.

You need to learn to trust that it is doing its job.

The best way I have found to do this is to simply calculate your xp/hr for a few hours with Innerstorm + Submission then do the same with Cyclone+Circ and you should see an increase.

If you do not see an increase you are probably sitting at exactly 42% CHC (they are equal at this point) or you are not letting Cyclone do its job enough of the time.

I think that the bad "feel" of Cyclone is simply not worth it for some people and I highly advise Spec B or end-game spec with Firestorm instead of Cyclone for those that feel that way.

Good luck and talk to you soon!

Faffner, thks for your reply bro. Huge dps from your Mara's n yellow ring. I need my hellring, guess i have to farm more ubers for an ave dmg, 6cc n cd hellring. :(

Please note, you DO NOT need a better Hellfire ring. That would be the LEAST efficient way to get more dps.

Your Hellfire is plenty good to go all the way to 150k dps and beyond.

sorry Druin. my TR'ing was once again short-lived. i have now sold a couple of my pieces and am speed-running MP3 with a different build. I still attest your build is the fastest lvl'ing thing going.

it was fun while it lasted. maybe i'll come back for a visit someday!

fyi, bought my 2.5 spirit regen helm a only a few weeks ago at 30 million, sold it a couple days ago at 70 million!

That is fine Mojo!

You got some good loot while you were here and it's not like the spec is going away any time soon. I will be here if you decide to come back into the fold! ;)

Glad you had fun and are still having fun! <3

I'd like to chime in on the LS Skorn discussion. I've been without LS for quite a while now. I think LS would be nice but is unnecessary with a good life pool and some other form of life replenishment. I have 2878life/kill and +11 pickup. I kill reflect packs with TC while quaffing a potion and BoH. But this is MP0.
But I have tried higher MP. I have enough killing power but the life/kill and orbs just doesn't do it. This is why I am currently shopping for a LS Skorn. I've tried LOH too but the proc rate is just too low with either TC or TR.

In summary MP0 is fine without a LS skorn, and you can get big ones cheap. Anything higher, even MP1 becomes hard you really need LS.

This is generally my feeling as well.

MP0 is just sooooooooo easy you really don't need much to survive there.

In the beginning, before I wrote this guide or hit plvl100, I was TRing around with 24k HP and 150AR with a 1250DPS skorn.

It just doesn't take much to make MP0 work! :D

Hi Druin
I agree Submission is still going to be better than Overawe in 1.07 but I think the difference is smaller than that. I don't think MoC works that way. It's a debuff on monsters, not a +skill damage. So for example TR :
TR = 155% * [1 + 0.15 (BW)] * [1 + 0.12 (MoC Sub)] * [1 (scalar)] = 199.6%
TR = 155% * [1 + 0.15 (BW)] * [1 + 0.24 (MoC OA)] * [1 (scalar)] = 221.0%
Also note Overawe will boost follower damage more than Submission.
Of course if you are at all refreshing MoC during combat this is going to swing the favour to Overawe drastically. But I don't think this will happen in a TR build.

Also monsters being off screen or out of MoC range makes no difference in comparing Overawe vs Submission. They both have the same range.

Hey GAK,

While I 100% agree that MoC SHOULD add its damage in the way you presented, it does not.

Vrkhyz has done extensive testing on the subject and each rune of MoC is counted as a +% damage buff and is thus effected by the diminishing returns of stacking +% damage buffs.

This makes me sad, but it is the case.

Furthermore, MoC's effect on Cyclone will favor Submission over Overawe.
Why? Because 100% of the "damage" caused by Overawe is determined by the OTHER skills you use.

If you stood still with no skills activated, Overawe would do 0 damage. Submission would do 12% * (1.12) * APS damage each second.

If you reduce the effect of the "monsters take more damage" portion of MoC, Overawe loses that effectiveness on all its damage, submission only loses that effectiveness on half of its damage.

I did not include follower DPS into my calculations because it makes up a relatively tiny fraction of your DPS. That being said, Overawe would be slightly more effective because of it! :D


Sure. I expected my life bub to go up noticeably faster than it had been going up with my 1370, 180CD, ~350 dex skorn. With my new LS skorn, it does not. Perhaps this is because i have been running for a long time with health globe bonus and pickup, which has done the job satisfactorily for 160 paragon.

The biggest benefit has been vs. reflect and against higher monster power (fewer globes per time).

I in no way regret purchasing my sparkly new LS skorn, but I expected to notice more of a difference on MP 0.

My suggestion was that for most monks, LS skorn may not be the best bang for their buck with respect to loot/xp per time. In 1.06, BBFYB might go to a high DPS/dex skorn with alternative sustain.

EDIT: Thanks for explaining the overawe vs. submission math. It makes sense. I need reminding where the scalars came from... Are they based on area? I'll check out the 1.07 thread again later.

Hrm, well I can't say I notice a whole lot of a difference on MP0 either! :D

I usually only recommend a LS Skorn as a BiS purchase for monks who already have >200m invested into their gear.

At this point, there isn't much that is going to drastically increase your xp/hr and a LS skorn will not only help, it will make your runs less stressful and allow you to transition into other playstyles with relative ease.

I agree that if you are still looking for relatively large xp/hr increases, dex/vit high DPS skorns are much better money to xp ratio investments! :D

As for the Overawe vs Submission calcs...
1. Here is a link to the overall thread:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7763286321

2. The Scalar for Cyclone is just my best guess based on personal testing and the relative scalars for TR SW Firestorm and Submission. There is no way to calc an accurate Scalar for Cyclone that I know of because it is based on your CHC and the Cyclones have such mathematically complex interactions with their environment.

3. The Scalars for everything else were found using math that you can read about here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7763286321#7

I fully admit that I am making a large number of assumptions that may or may not be true in order to make the math work for these calculations so, if you disagree with my assumptions, you may want to do your own calcs or just ignore mine.

That being said, the numbers that I came up with fit the results that I have recorded fairly well and when a model that was created independently from a set of data and then fits that data quite well, you have a good case for a working model! :D

Obviously if you have drastically different findings than me, we can talk about it and perhaps revise my model.

Hey Druin,
Excellent guide I must say. I was wondering if your route from arreat 2, rakkis, FOS, then Keep 2 will change with the upcoming patch since we will able to to keep our stacks throughout all acts?

Hello Jhenn,

Thank you very much for the support! :D

I sincerely doubt that NV stacks carrying through acts with affect much of anything sadly.

Because of the liniar quest system and the extreme diss-incentives to killing bosses, moving through acts will be more of a burden than a blessing.

Furthermore, the zones that are chosen in Act3 for xp/hr runs are the highest mob density zones, not only in Act3, but in the game. There is really no incentive to include other acts.

This is sad because it's super stale to run the same route over and over and over and over ... but that is generally the result of maximizing for efficiency!
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Thanks Druin,
I am curious as to how MoC can work this way. What about party members? If you have overawe on and a barb does damage with +150% skill damage does this only add 14.4% damage instead of 24% ? Does Diablo look at the debuffs on a monster then apply these separately to the unbuffed and buffed portions of damage done to it ? That seems rather complicated. The tooltip for for MoC states it increases damage monsters take not just the unbuffed portion, although I guess tooltips don't mean much.
Do you have a link to Vrkhyz ' analysis ?
This would really change my view on item/skill balance. This would mean getting DPS from items is much stronger than from skills.
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Talked with Master Druin ingame, what an awesome guy, really knows his stuff. A build and guide can only get you so far, the tech support is what gets you the rest of the way!!

I VOTE DRUIN FOR GAME DIRECTOR D3 :)
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Disagree on using a Skorn, I've tried it and don't like, yes my "paper doll" dps goes way up, but I still have almost infinite spam of TR using two fist weapons with spirit regen on them, if I need more I just stop for 2 seconds hit some stuff with quickening and its back to TR spam... Seems to work extremely well and can't wait for the TR/SW buff come next patch, right now I'm flying through mp2 like its mp0 and with the buffs hoping MP4 becomes a breeze for some serious xp farming.
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