Diablo® III

[Guide] The Tempest Rush Compendium 1.0.8

Thanks Druin.
Reply Quote
Thank you for the guide Druin, it's been a real help.

I wonder if any of the more experienced (or less experienced with lots of knowledge) monks here could look over these goals I have set myself for improvement:

Me: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Cyno-2661/hero/6502751

1. Get to 120k dps.
Seems easy enough. I got Life after kill on amu and ring, that should be enough for now. Leaving me free to get a skorn with extra high dex or attack speed (I have the spirit regen to match it). But this solution also gets in the way of the easiest route to goal number 2... So maybe some different changes? I'd love to get some more crit chance of the few pieces that are still 1% or more under max.

2. Get to 40k hp.
Getting a Skorn with vitality should just about cover it. They aren't that cheap without losing dps and crit dmg, but it's meant to be a goal and not something I can just do now. Alternatively, I can just get a bit more vit on other gear pieces. Maybe the new crafting system will be kind for me with gloves :-)

3. Get rid of OWE.
Yup, 'spensive and a lot of work. I expect this to be more of a long term goal, but who knows. It's not hard to figure out what to do here. Replace phys res with allres, allres can ofcourse roll higher than phys, so I won't have to get it on all of the pieces.

Let me know what you think and if you know easier ways to get to these goals. Also, I'm thinking of dropping the blind for serenity once 1.07 hits, any insights? I feel like I don't really need a spirit generator with 14 spirit/sec.

Regarding 1.07, from what I've read emeralds still get you more dps, but won't a ruby help more when it comes to killing stuff? I figured crits kill mobs regardless of that extra crit dmg and the ruby will help with normal hits.
Reply Quote
Reached plvl 100.

My big thank you to Druin for the guides, and Seaboot for the route.

Here's the short youtube clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivCwP9-n0j4
Reply Quote
3. The Scalars for everything else were found using math that you can read about here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7763286321#7

I fully admit that I am making a large number of assumptions that may or may not be true in order to make the math work for these calculations so, if you disagree with my assumptions, you may want to do your own calcs or just ignore mine.

That being said, the numbers that I came up with fit the results that I have recorded fairly well and when a model that was created independently from a set of data and then fits that data quite well, you have a good case for a working model! :D

Obviously if you have drastically different findings than me, we can talk about it and perhaps revise my model.


Seems good enough if fits the data. Do the scalars scale linearly with increased area? If so, I wonder if this would overestimate scalars at high area?

Would it be informative to run a couple high MP Azmodan tests on 1.07 with 1-2 versions of usual TR build while varying only MOC-overawe vs. MOC-submission? I'm thinking this would present the extreme case of one target/maximum benefit of overawe, and, based on the size of differences in time-to-kill (edps), might tell us whether we need to spend any more time wondering about overawe vs. submission. i.e., if they end up being same edps on 1.07, we'd know that in all (single-player) cases, submission would be better.
Reply Quote
2. Get to 40k hp.
Getting a Skorn with vitality should just about cover it. They aren't that cheap without losing dps and crit dmg, but it's meant to be a goal and not something I can just do now. Alternatively, I can just get a bit more vit on other gear pieces. Maybe the new crafting system will be kind for me with gloves :-)


I'd say 40k hp is a good goal, but may be unnecessary for high efficiency MP 0.

A better, albeit harder to quantify goal might be "enough effective health to dependably survive a fallen maniac blast at full health." You can get there with approximately 35k hps, ~4k armor, and ~250-300 all res.

Once past that threshold, i'd recommend going DPS (which can also mean +spirit so you can run MOC, fleet footed, and/or scoundrel).
Reply Quote
great thread, Druin could you take a look at my monk and advise what to change to boost dps? skorn with 1400+dps would be great but it cost fortune :>
Reply Quote
- Diablo III (Monk)
View profile
Good morning everyone!

Thanks Druin,
I am curious as to how MoC can work this way. What about party members? If you have overawe on and a barb does damage with +150% skill damage does this only add 14.4% damage instead of 24% ? Does Diablo look at the debuffs on a monster then apply these separately to the unbuffed and buffed portions of damage done to it ? That seems rather complicated. The tooltip for for MoC states it increases damage monsters take not just the unbuffed portion, although I guess tooltips don't mean much.
Do you have a link to Vrkhyz ' analysis ?
This would really change my view on item/skill balance. This would mean getting DPS from items is much stronger than from skills.

It is possible that I miss-communicated how MoC works to you.

Currently, according to VERY convincing data by Vrk, MoC counts as another "% damage buff" for all damage done by all sources that hit monsters effected by it.

Some quick and easy examples:
Let's say you are using MoC with no rune for 12% increased damage.

1. You hit a monster with FoT once.
You will do 110% weapon damage * [1 + 0.12 (MoC)] = 123.2% weapon damage.

2. You hit a monster with FoT once and you have Blazing Wrath and DR:Foresight buff on.
You will do 110% weapon damage * [1 + 0.15 (BW) + 0.18 (DR:F) + 0.12 (MoC)] = 159.5% weapon damage.

You will NOT do 110% weapon damage * [1 + 0.15 (BW) + 0.18 (BW)] * [1 + 0.12 (MoC)] = 163.86% weapon damage.

3. If a baba uses Bash on a monster affected by your MoC.
He will do 165% weapon damage * [1 + 0.12 (MoC)] = 184.8% weapon damage.

4. If a baba uses Bash while Wrath of the Berserker: Insanity is up (100% increased damage).
He will do 165% weapon damage * [1 + 1.00 (WotB:I) + 0.12 (MoC)] = 349.8% weapon damage.

He will NOT do 165% weapon damage * [1 + 1.00 (WotB:I)] * [1+ 0.12 (MoC)] = 369.6% weapon damage.

Hopefully these calcs help clear up how it works.

Basically, MoC is slightly worse than you think because almost every class has a % damage increase skill or two activated at all times to boost their DPS and MoC is scaled back in effectiveness by these.

I have personally tested this theory and found Vrk's calcs to be correct down to the decimal.

Talked with Master Druin ingame, what an awesome guy, really knows his stuff. A build and guide can only get you so far, the tech support is what gets you the rest of the way!!

I VOTE DRUIN FOR GAME DIRECTOR D3 :)

It was a pleasure to chat Krieg, thanks for the support and good luck with your 5x plvl100 project! :D

02/08/2013 09:14 PMPosted by Fizix
Disagree on using a Skorn, I've tried it and don't like, yes my "paper doll" dps goes way up, but I still have almost infinite spam of TR using two fist weapons with spirit regen on them, if I need more I just stop for 2 seconds hit some stuff with quickening and its back to TR spam... Seems to work extremely well and can't wait for the TR/SW buff come next patch, right now I'm flying through mp2 like its mp0 and with the buffs hoping MP4 becomes a breeze for some serious xp farming.

Hello Fizix,

If you are using 2x 1h weps and playing on MP2 then we are almost certainly talking about different builds! :D

Is it possible that you are talking about the cookie-TR hybrid build that uses FoT:TC + SW:C to kill packs and TR:Tailwind to get from pack to pack?

If so, I completely agree! That build basically requires 2x 1h weps and would suffer greatly from the slow attack speed that Skorn provides.

However, for a "pure" TR build that expects to kill most monsters with TR + SW + Sub, using 2x 1h weps is virtually impossible.

I say virtually because if you could somehow afford 2x 1.1k DPS 2+ spir/sec 80%+ CHD 150+dex 1h fist weps, you could almost certainly TR with them. It would still be worse than a Skorn as TR (and consequently Cyclone) do not scale well with IAS.

Furthermore, because TR strives to one hit kill most white-mobs, it is pretty important to play on a low MP level.

I have recently had some good conversations with a 200k+ DPS TR monk and even he was having issues killing stuff quickly enough on MP2 to make it worthwhile.

tl;dr - we are probably talking about different builds! :D

02/09/2013 01:05 AMPosted by Narcolepsy
Thanks Druin.

My pleasure Narc.

02/09/2013 04:15 PMPosted by Cyno
Thank you for the guide Druin, it's been a real help.

Hey Cyno,

I am glad that you like my guide! It is my pleasure to be able to help out!

First off:
I really like your monk. I feel like your build has a lot of concerted effort put into it and it all works well together to give you a set of stats that put you pretty far up in the ranks of TR monks.

1. Get to 120k dps.
Seems easy enough. I got Life after kill on amu and ring, that should be enough for now. Leaving me free to get a skorn with extra high dex or attack speed (I have the spirit regen to match it). But this solution also gets in the way of the easiest route to goal number 2... So maybe some different changes? I'd love to get some more crit chance of the few pieces that are still 1% or more under max.

It seems to me that BY FAR the easiest way for you to gain DPS is through your ammy.

Your skorn is actually pretty darn good and upgrading it, while a good goal, might be a longer-term one.

For the ammy I see you having two choices:
1. Save up, buy a rare with same dex same crit and all or phys resist AND 80%+ CHD.
That amount of CHD at your level of DPS is worth a TON.

2. Wait for 1.0.7 and craft nothing but ammys for 10 years. (This is my plan so I am not hating on it).
The 1.0.7 BoA ammys have a WAAAAAAAAAAAAY higher chance of being good than rare ammys and have an automatic 200+ dex roll. This means that the second you craft a high CHC moderate CHD + mitigation stat BoA ammy it will be a ~15k DPS upgrade for you.

Second possible upgrade would be the same plan with BoA Bracer. They have 200+ dex and you would just need to craft them until you got 6%CC with some mitigation stat (AR, PhysR, Vit or vit/dex).

Either of these options present you with a (relatively) cheap +10k dps path that doesn't require moving away from your Skorn which means you can start saving for a true BiS Lifesteal Skorn.

2. Get to 40k hp.
Getting a Skorn with vitality should just about cover it. They aren't that cheap without losing dps and crit dmg, but it's meant to be a goal and not something I can just do now. Alternatively, I can just get a bit more vit on other gear pieces. Maybe the new crafting system will be kind for me with gloves :-)

While getting to 40k HP is a noble goal, I question your motives! :D

I have 31k hp and have no trouble surviving MP6 with a Bells-TR hybrid build.

My personal belief is that Monks are a mitigation class and so stacking mitigaiton tends to heavily outweigh stacking HP.

With this in mind, I would recommend focusing on mitigation over HP.

3. Get rid of OWE.
Yup, 'spensive and a lot of work. I expect this to be more of a long term goal, but who knows. It's not hard to figure out what to do here. Replace phys res with allres, allres can ofcourse roll higher than phys, so I won't have to get it on all of the pieces.

First off, I applaud you for aiming to ditch OWE.

I think it is one of the best choices I made and boy was it painful to do.

Spending millions of gold on items that feel like STRICT side-grades hurts! :D

However, you are sitting on Phys Resist right now so dropping OWE is something you should do the very second you log in. Switch OWE to STI! :D

In MP0, the only things that kill you consistently are Reflects Damage elites and Fallen Maniacs and both (despite the graphic for Maniacs) do phys damage.

This means that, for the important sources of damage, your single-stacked resist is functioning as All Resist.

I am almost 100% certain that if you switch OWE to STI you will see a giant increase in surviveability.

From there, you can remove phys-res for All-res slowly over time and, once your AR gets to the ~400 level, you will be able to drop STI and move to Fleet Footed or Exalted Soul (whichever you prefer).

Let me know what you think and if you know easier ways to get to these goals. Also, I'm thinking of dropping the blind for serenity once 1.07 hits, any insights? I feel like I don't really need a spirit generator with 14 spirit/sec.

Unless you plan to TR at higher MP levels (which requires slightly different gear) than I think the switch to STI will take care of your mitigation needs for now. Serenity is a wasted skill for TR monks IMO.

Instead, I would recommend switching out SSS:FO for WoL:Empowered Wave (a strictly better skill in 1.0.7) and then CoR -> ES (so you have more spirit for bells) and then Faith -> Air Ally.

The Ally has a small SW which will help clear trash (more damage spread) AND it will periodically give you 100 spirit which helps make up for the lost 1.47 spir/sec from switching CoR -> ES.

Just as an aside, I recommend EVERY monk with SSS:FO on their bar right now to switch to WoL:Empowered Wave come 1.0.7. WoL is op :P

Regarding 1.07, from what I've read emeralds still get you more dps, but won't a ruby help more when it comes to killing stuff? I figured crits kill mobs regardless of that extra crit dmg and the ruby will help with normal hits.

You most certainly do get more dps from an emerald.

There is an argument to be made for putting a Ruby in your wep (and I will definitely experiment with it) but for now, I would assume that you are going to be sticking with an Emerald.

The problem is that even though I would GREATLY prefer Average Damage over CHD because of the lower variance, the difference in DPS is too large to make that trade off worthwhile.

Again, I will test it, but both SW and MoC:Sub do damage "continuously" which means CHD = Average damage for them. It is only TR and Cyclones that gain variance from CHD. So you aren't even getting the full benefit from Rubies adding non-variable damage.

Hopefully that wasn't too much to read! :D

Good luck!

Reached plvl 100.

My big thank you to Druin for the guides, and Seaboot for the route.

Here's the short youtube clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivCwP9-n0j4

Yay!!!! Welcome to the club!

Here's to you not getting bored now that you can't get xp anymore!


Seems good enough if fits the data. Do the scalars scale linearly with increased area? If so, I wonder if this would overestimate scalars at high area?

Would it be informative to run a couple high MP Azmodan tests on 1.07 with 1-2 versions of usual TR build while varying only MOC-overawe vs. MOC-submission? I'm thinking this would present the extreme case of one target/maximum benefit of overawe, and, based on the size of differences in time-to-kill (edps), might tell us whether we need to spend any more time wondering about overawe vs. submission. i.e., if they end up being same edps on 1.07, we'd know that in all (single-player) cases, submission would be better.

The scalars will scale linearly with increased area but area increases exponentially with radius.

So a 20yd radius skill is not 2x higher than a 10yd radius skill, it is much more than that.

I did use a 0.5x modifier for the "effect" of area on damage because player choice reduces the increased effectiveness of damage due to area.

Area only makes it more likely for a skill to do damage and player choice ALSO makes it more likely for a skill to do damage. If we were all playing blindfolded, you would want skills with the highest possible radius because you wouldn't be able to do damage with small-aoe skills 99.999% of the time.

I do not think I am overestimating the effect of Area on Damage while moving. However, I have no good way to prove this theory right now (other than long long long long hours of xp/hr testing with as many constant variables as possible) so I agree that my findings are nowhere near rock-solid.

Running Azmodan DPS tests wouldn't tell you anything about AoE damage increases.

Az is the definition of something that Overawe is better for than Submission. He will spend 100% of the time being hit by every skill you have and is therefore very good for testing "true" eDPS and very bad for testing "true" white-mob DPS.

For reference people have run the numbers and run the Az tests for Sub vs Overawe many times before and it's not close. Overawe out-performs Sub by a long shot.

This is not representative of their effect on your xp/hr though because you are not moving, and you are only killing 1 stationary non-randomly placed monster.

02/11/2013 12:13 AMPosted by n0rek
great thread, Druin could you take a look at my monk and advise what to change to boost dps? skorn with 1400+dps would be great but it cost fortune :>

Hello n0rek,

Thanks for the support! :D

The reason you are lacking DPS is due to having very very very low CHD.

The three main places that TR monks get CHD are ring/ammy Skorn and gloves.

You have 0 on ring/ammy and gloves and very low on Skorn (150% base and only 70% from gem).

If you would like more DPS without losing other stats a Skorn with exactly the same Damage but 180% CHD and then a Rad star emerald would be a 60% CHD increase.

Then you could make the (painful) switch to CHD gloves.

Lastly, your bracers have 3% CHC which is pretty low so I would recommend getting some new ones that are int he 6% range.

Obviously a 1400 dps Skorn would be great, but I do not think it is necessary to get your DPS to a good TR level.

As an aside, I would HIGHLY recommend switching OWE to STI.

You currently have 172 phys resist which means OWE is giving you 172 AR while STI would give you ~ 1300 armor.

Even at dead-even 1300 armor is almost equal to 172 AR, however, for TR monks Phys Res is already >50% of the damage you take. This means that with STI, you will have a MUCH easier time with Reflects Damage and Fallen Maniacs.

You also have MORE than enough HP to survive pretty much anything! :D

Hope that helps!
Reply Quote
I have really gotten a lot of mileage out of this thread over the last few weeks. I certainly couldn't have done 20 paragon levels over the last two weekends without it.

I recently changed from running TR:Tailwind and SW:Inner Storm to TR:Northern Breeze and SW:Firestorm. Having a very midrange TR setup, that felt much better. Moving slower actually helped me kill things in a single pass. I still mostly leave Tremors and Fat Guys, but axe draggers die much more easily now as well as most of the Rakkis Crossing enemies.
Reply Quote
thank you very much, you're the best :)

im already making perfect emerald so it would be in few days :) mainly for skorn and achiev.
Edited by n0rek#2574 on 2/11/2013 11:19 PM PST
Reply Quote
need to take out the info about snap shotting, believe that mechanic is dead for monk at least.
Reply Quote
- Diablo III (Monk)
View profile
Morning folks, welcome to 1.0.7!

I have really gotten a lot of mileage out of this thread over the last few weeks. I certainly couldn't have done 20 paragon levels over the last two weekends without it.

I recently changed from running TR:Tailwind and SW:Inner Storm to TR:Northern Breeze and SW:Firestorm. Having a very midrange TR setup, that felt much better. Moving slower actually helped me kill things in a single pass. I still mostly leave Tremors and Fat Guys, but axe draggers die much more easily now as well as most of the Rakkis Crossing enemies.

First off, thanks for the support! Glad that my guide has been helpful to you!

The idea of switching from Tailwind to Northern Breeze is something that I haven't covered in much detail but I actually fully support.

Losing 25% move speed is definitely rough, but you can still quite easily gain xp/hr efficiency over the FoT:TC + SW:C build simply because TR keeps you moving at all times.

The cool thing about switching to NB instead of TW is that you gain SO much "effective" damage by both gaining a DPS skill (Firestorm in your case) AND by moving more slowly.

The decreased move speed means that monsters stay in the range of your DPS skills for more time and thus take more damage.

You can reproduce this effect with Tailwind by doubling back, looping or zig-zagging ... but the fact is, all of those things just do what Northern Breeze does naturally except they don't allow you to tack on an additional DPS skill.

I think I will add a Spec Variant D to my guide that uses Norther Breeze instead of Tailwind because you should be able to cram either IAS gear (for DPS) or both a SW rune and Submission into the spec by taking the reduced cost on NB.

Good call!

thank you very much, you're the best :)

im already making perfect emerald so it would be in few days :) mainly for skorn and achiev.

Wonderful!

02/12/2013 03:16 AMPosted by Nicfit
need to take out the info about snap shotting, believe that mechanic is dead for monk at least.

The guide will need a complete 1.0.7 overhaul to be fair. A lot of the specs need to be tweaked slightly (WoL:EW in for SSS:FO and either BW or Air Ally in for Faith). Also, some of the information (snapshot and the value of MP levels) may be inaccurate now.

Plus I want to add a section, as I mentioned above, about using Northern Breeze and another section about the relative power of different skills based on their AoE size.

And lastly I want to add a section that discusses the use of a TR-Bells hybrid build that farms higher MP levels for Demonic Essences.

So, you can expect the guide to be updated in a bit. I have to do the testing before I can confidently recommend switching SSS:FO to Bells and stuff like that though.

That means we are waiting on my testing at the moment and, because I actually want to farm DE's more than anything else right now, it may be a little bit! ;)

Thanks for sticking with me!
Reply Quote

<snip>

Thanks for sticking with me!

Looking forward to reading the updates! I actually read all your advice in here, even though I'm fairly comfortable with my TR setup at this point. Mostly because I don't want to miss any good information, but also because I find the way you write to be pretty entertaining!
Reply Quote
Looking forward to whatever research and new ideas you have on improving TR's efficiency with your 1.07 guides Druin. I also try and spread the knowledge around our little gaming clan community I'm a part of (for the monks there).

I gotta say I hit PL90 last night, just not even two months ago I was about 30PL lower and thanks to your TR guide I'm much closer to my goal of 100PL. ( I would have already hit it but work and RL tend to get in the way:D )
Reply Quote
Hi Druin!

I saw your guide and it inspired me to try making a TR monk. I was wondering if you could take a look at my monk and give me any suggestions to try out. I don't have the money necessary to really get into spirit regen, which I know is vital, so I tried some different skills. I'm not sure if this is the most effective build I could do, that why I wanted to ask you. I'm using the Air Ally currently because I decided to use Inner Storm to help with my spirit regen, and I figured the Ally gave me the ability to run through mobs, and have him pick off some of the weaklings that I'm leaving behind. Based on my current skills, would you suggest that I switch out Northern Breeze for Tail wind? Opinions would be appreciated.
Reply Quote
Needs to be on front page at all times.
Reply Quote
02/12/2013 09:46 AMPosted by Druin
So, you can expect the guide to be updated in a bit. I have to do the testing before I can confidently recommend switching SSS:FO to Bells and stuff like that though.


So why not have both for maximum elite killspeed? Even without a Xeph amy i could quite easily sustain

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#ecXTSQ!bdc!bZbccZ

BoH:BW is ofc optional in 1.0.7. For survivability you can still go with BF or if you experience SR issues again with DR:FS/another generator. Even Air ally if you happen to be one of the lucky people with LS.

And as i experienced for over 60 PLevels now you definitely CAN and WILL run into multiple RD packs within 30s. Given that i don't yet have neither LS nor LoK on my skorn i decided to try SSS:SA instead of SSS:FO. Turned out to be a lot better for me. That ~23% faster recharge has been totally sufficient for MP0 and even without the FO rune still kills elites in a blink.
Reply Quote
nice work on this Druin.

I wish you had a link to the skills used next to the videos in the first section.

A quick point though, i found that you put a bit too much emphasis on delivering a permanent TR rather than clearing maps faster through higher damage. From my testing, i found that more damage (through MoC/Submission and SW/Firestorm) outweighs the benefits of MoH/Circular Breathing or the Xeph amulet.

Other than that, great job. Here is my guide...i hope it can be useful for you http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5335593551
Reply Quote
also, i did some testing today with a Ruby, and even though i lost 2k dps, i am able to farm mp 2 as effectively as i was mp 1 (after the patch, of course...before 1.07 i was on mp0).

I think the reason for this is the increase to the minimum damage and minimum crit damage is what is helping to clear mobs fast enough on the higher mp level.
Reply Quote
geez, Ironman, that is one skorn...
Reply Quote
I tried out using Bells in place of SSS yesterday and didn't like it. Mainly because one of the best parts about SSS is that it allows you to hit RD packs without taking any damage. Any time I ran into a RD pack while using Bells I had to wait for RD to wear off and only then could I attack them.

Also, and this is probably just a lack of experience with bells thing, but being able to hit SSS without any thought to positioning is pretty nice, too :P With Bells I have to make sure I'm facing the right way to get as many of the elite pack as possible.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]