Diablo® III

[2]Uberjager's thread on Ubergearing WW Barbs

Heya thar,

Previous thread hit 26 pages. D:

Here it is: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7200300874?page=1

Edit: It seems that threads can now go about the previous limit of 26th pages.

Here is the third thread (which we will be discontinuing unless this thread caps out again):

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592639226#2

You probably haven't heard of me. Well, you mostly haven't. Mainly because I don't like to pop my head into the behind that is which the D3 community.

However, I feel that right now this is warranted because it has come to my attention that many of you know very little about the metagame "WW build" and how to optimally gear for it. And as a result, most of you either build yourself into a rut, make some terribly underpowered build for the price you pay or get in some ways "cheated" by some of the many popular gearing services within this community, well most of them are good its just one or two bad eggs that ruin it for the rest. (One of them just quit recently)

Even so, some of these builders are building based on outdated info and some builds that they might be making could be entirely subpar without you noticing. I will address this, but only for the WW build. (I've also noted that some of them are pretty well known streamers, Kripparian isn't one of them. Jesus, I'm watching one now and boy is he giving really stupid advice.)

I will teach you the secrets of what you need to know to make your build awesome and CHEAP (CHEAP! This is the most important point of all). And as proof you may look at my male barb. That barb, can do MP10.

It only cost me 1m. And I got all the items in 20 mins, no sniping/ no camp-AH-till I find GG buyout. Just buyouts on AH within that 20 mins.

Here's some videos, featuring MP10 elite kills with 1m gear as courtesy of Wayneold. Please give him due credit, he's one of the best player's I've seen skill wise in this community.

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Keeps 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKQumwwzkPE&feature=youtu.be

Crypt of the Ancients:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uiKzHNsP_s&feature=youtu.be

Also, if you're coming in here and crying "Nerf barbs!" You probably haven't seen Athene do MP10 Diablo Naked or this Korean Wizard that kills MP10 elites in 10 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mQxAVdNOOTE

We're not the most OP class.

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On my main barb, this is my current stats and clear speed.

http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/uberjager-6563/Uberjager/25307580

Till date. The barb has cost me 2.4B. Good buys and proper itemization go a long way. :D

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This thread will be pretty rudimentary. I can't type out 4 months worth of theorycrafting nor can I type all that I know about this build in just one day. I might take days for this. Expect constant updates.

In this thread I will have multiple sections:.

1: History of the WW build, the mechanics behind it and how it has progressed over the period of this game. (I'll put this right at the back, its pretty TL:DR and most people don't want to see it.

2: Metagame changes, how does it affect build optimization, what are the current gearing strategies of the many players in this game and what are the pros and cons of each strat.

3: AH strategies for gearing, what items to look out for, what is build maneuverability, how do you optimize each stat. How price perception shifts your strategy for AH.

4: Playstyles, build optimization, what most "pro" players are doing wrong, how to min/max. What skills are optimal? How do you plan your build?

5: This is part massive mindblow for some of you. How Diabloprogress rankings are WRONG. How TDPS/DPS calculators though useful in some sense but completely irrelevant for others.

6: Conclusion. Last words to end the guide.

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DISCLAIMER:

I will call out some well known players out there. But the objective is not to create drama but to provide insight as to what these players are doing wrong.

I notice one player extremely butthert about this. You know who you are.

Take a chill pill, its just a game lol. >:3
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GUIDELINES TO DISCUSSION:

Guys, you can debate, you can discuss. But remember that everyone has a different view than you. Its ok to disagree sometimes.

Learn the art of agreeing to disagree. :P

Also shoutout to everyone:

Guys! I won't be on all the time. Sometimes I've got IRL stuff... or the login server has issues so I can't respond. Anyone who's read the guide and have had the knowledge of the WW barb bestowed upon ye can also help give advice. I'll be looking through your advice though, so don't troll the less experienced. >.<

Also, please don't provide gearing services in this thread, give advice on what the other player should do, don't offer to gear him. >.<

However, if you see a barb in need and want to donate gear to him. Go ahead. There's no stopping you for that.

If you want to look for gearing services I believe Dboy does a really good job of it. This is his thread:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6714102283
Edited by Uberjager#6563 on 1/14/2013 7:46 AM PST
Reply Quote
2: Metagame changes, how does it affect build optimization, what are the current gearing strategies of the many players in this game and what are the pros and cons of each strat.


Subsection:

2A) Optimal stat values. Misconceptions on what are optimum. Cheap and underpriced stats.etc on armor and weapons.

2B) The mechanics of EHP, what are Additive HP and HP multipliers. How to optimise both.

2C) The mechanics of DPS, what is Additive Damage and Damage multipliers. How to optimise both.

2D) What is sustain? How do I maximise sustain?

2E) DPS armor sets. Ideal DPS sets.

2F) Defensive armor sets. Ideal defensive sets.

2G) Weapon choices!

2H) Optimizing EF + Weap setups!

2I) Gearing your follower!

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2A) Optimal stat values. Misconceptions on what are optimum. Cheap and underpriced stats.etc.

The most overrated stat of all time:

First and formost lets address the stat that many of you are familiar with.

It's all resistance (AR). Now I see players out there telling you to stack all resistance to 700 or more.

WRONG. Unless you really have the money to waste. 700 AR is way too expensive to be stacked to those amounts.

Ideally you want your Helm/Bracers/Belt/Chest/Boots/Pants/Shoulders to have AR. There are some exceptions to this, I.e. innas. in which case you'll have to get them on gloves.

The summation of an average of 70 AR on each of these pieces (along with the 2 piece IK set which is pretty much mandatory irregardless of build) will give you slightly below 600 AR total. Why you don't stack more than 7 pieces is simple. Because you have to get them on gear that you want to focus on DPS and on gear where the AR can cause the value of that gear slot to effectively double. This includes your Rings/Ammy and gloves. Shield users will have an easier time with AR stacking and can afford to stack to 700. Likewise because they can stack higher values of AR you can skip AR on one of the pieces to save money.

The most underrated stat of all time:

What would be the cheap and underpriced stat to get you your damage negation? Armor? Nope, people overprice that as well.

The answer is % damage reduction. For Melee % You can get these from the IK gloves and helm and from the 3 piece IK set/Blackthornes chest/Stormshield. For Ranged% you can get these from lacunis/ Blackthornes chest. And for Elite % you can get these from Litany rings (the only ring I really don't mind having defensive stats on for a more defensive setup), Blackthorne's chest, Blackthorne's boots, stormshield.

% damage reduction is currently the most underrated stat for the amount of reduction it actually gives you. It's an ideal stat for building economy builds that don't want to over rely on AR or armor for damage negation and I'llbe covering how it works, how to use it and how to optimize a build around it on the next section.

Other underrated stats:

Dex. Yes, Dex.

Dodge is something most barbs don't consider as part of their gearing strategies but oh boy is it extremely useful. It can help you to avoid fallen maniacs/explosions from molten elite deaths/that stupid ranged attack about to spear your face.

It also helps that you get Dodge from WoTB (yay!)

How dex increases dodge is a tiered system of diminishing returns.

100 dex = 10% dodge. 500 dex = 20% dodge. so on and so forth. I won't go higher because if you think I'm telling you to stack more than 500 dex you're retarded.

Now, 0 Dex (although its never 0) with WoTB = 25% dodge chance. Every 1 in 4 hits you dodge.

400 dex with WoTB = 34% dodge chance. Every 1 in 3 hits you dodge.

At paragon level 100 you should have around 167 dex (I might be wrong, please correct me). So yes, having dex on armor is less effective. But earlier on at lower paragon levels having that extra 300 dex or so might save your !@#.

I'm not telling you to actively SEARCH for dex. But if you do see an armor out there on AH with dex on it. DON'T go "oh dex, $%^- this *!@#". That armor might be really good.

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2B) The mechanics of EHP, what are Additive HP and HP multipliers. How to optimise both.

EHP is comprised of two components. I'd like to call them Additive HP and HP multipliers. AD and HM for short.

Here's the general equation. EHP = (Base hp + AD) x HM.

Relatively simple.

Under AH you have:

1) Vit.

2) Life %.

Under HM you have:

1) Dodge and dex

2) Armor

3) AR and intelligence

4) A combination of Block % and Block value.

5) % damage reduction

Now, look at stat availabilty on items.

For Life% you can get them on Shoulders/ Chest/ Helm/Ring/Amulet/Belts/ Blackthorne pants/ Ice climbers. ( I counted shield out because life% on shield is not an optimal roll).

I've already mentioned as to where you can get % damage reduction above so I won't go into it again.

For the rest of the other AH/HM modifiers you can find them on virtually every armor.

One thing you need to know though. The Vit roll on Chest/Pants/Ammy can roll up to 200. It rolls a max of 100 everywhere else (not sure on rings, someone pls cfm)

How to optimize AH values?

As most of us know. 1 vit = 35 life.

1% life = (1/100) x (Vit x 35) life.

Most players doing gear services would say the best way to optimize it is by doing a spreadsheet and finding the ideal life%/vit ratio that you want.

Yes. They're absolutely correct.... only if you're never going to upgrade your character ever again after buying the set.

You see, Life% is so much more valuable than vit because:

1. Its underrated.

2. Most important point ever. It gives you room to maneuver.

Lets say you have 60% life and 1000 vit. Yes, you're not at the ideal vit/life % ratio and hence, losing more health than if you were to go 1200 vit and 48% life.

But if you remember, Life% is harder to obtain than vit on armor.What that means is, with more life % you'll find it easier to increase your AD with subsequent upgrades as your upgrades are more likely to have vit rather than life % ! :3

Secondly. Life% is relatively cheap on certain armors. I.e. Chest. Look at my IK's on my female barb.

A 190 str. 210 vit one would cost me 500m+.

... I got that for 320m.

And the more vit I stack subsequently, the more effective that 12% gets! :D (I got 190 vit from my new ammy recently, win)

And with each gain in paragon level I gain more vit! :3

Ideally, you'd want your EHP values to be around 1million to be comfortable.

How to optimize HM values?

If you thought the the theory for AH was long, HM is going to blow your mind.

I will be adressing HM from a "mob damage reduced" perspective rather than a "EHP" perspective as it will be easier to understand. In this case I'll remove block and dodge out of this as its easier to visualise.

Lets say a elite mob in MP10 A3 hits you for 100k damage.

How damage is reduced is that Damage dealt = 100k x (1-% damage reduction from AR/100)x (1- % damge reduction from armor/100) x (1- % melee or ranged damage reduction/100) x (1- % elite damage reduction/100) x (1- % damage reduction from crushing advance if applicable/100) x (100- % damage reduction from superstition if applicable/100)

What does this mean?

If you can afford high values of armor + AR. You should only stick to a MAXIMUM OF 2 damage reductions sources. As the more sources you have subsequently, the less effective each source is.

At 65% reduction from armor and 65% reduction from AR.

Mob hits= 100k x 0.35 x 0.35
= 12.25k

At 50% reduction from armor and 45% reduction from AR, 35% reduction from crushing advance, 20% melee reduction, 14% elite reduction

Mob hits= 100kx 0.50x0.55x0.65 x0.80 x 0.86
=12.298k

So it really depends on your budget. As I explained above if you cannot afford high AR, find ways to increase the number of sources of damage reduction at minimal cost. A good example is the 3 piece IK set. You can compensate for the AR loss on those with good % reductions.

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2C) The mechanics of DPS, what is Additive Damage and Damage multipliers. How to optimise both.


Like EHP, DPS is a combination of two different factors. Additive damage and Damage multipliers. (AD and DM for short)

Additive Damage:

1) AVG damage from weapons.

2) AVG damage on Rings/Amulets.

Damage Multipliers:

1. CC. (helm, gloves, bracers, passives, skills, shield)

2. CD. (Weapons, rings, passive, WH, Amulet)

3. IAS and +xx APS. (Gloves, Mempos, Innas, Lacunis, WH, Rings, Amulet)

4. Strength. (Every-!@#$ing-thing)

5. % damage increase. (skills)

DPS = AD x DM

Most barbs gear wrongly in the sense that they tend to stack DM but completely neglect AD. (there are few barbs that do the inverse to complain about). And those that do skew their AD values to one stat and neglect the others.

You need to understand that a combination of both give you your dps. Also you need to understand where to get each DM and AD source from and how to balance them.

Now as you can see the stat that is the hardest to obtain here is AVG damage as they are only available from 3 sources: Weapons, rings, amulet, with 80% or more of it coming from weapons. Strength is the most common DM and hence should be prioritised lower over the other forms of DM to allow subsequent gearing maneuverability.

You must also know what IAS breakpoints on Nado tickrates are and decide on which breakpoint you want to hit. Get your IAS to that value and focus the rest on other DM sources.

This is slightly complex so ask me in posts. I'll try my best to respond.

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2D) What is sustain? How do I maximise sustain?

There are two aspects of sustain that I'll be covering. Fury sustain and Life sustain.

For Life Sustain.

Survivability is a factor of two things, overall damage reduction and Life Sustain values.
Sustain is a term coined by Celanian (He has a thread up called "Hall of the Godly Barbarians") I prefer life generation as its more descriptive but its too much to type, sustain will suffice. :3 If you want to calculate it out you can go to www.d3rawr.com/d

Life Sustain is basically your ability to generate life. If you've ever tried standing still and not dealing damage as a WW barb you'd realise pretty early that you'd die in a few hits. What keeps you alive is your sustain.

Now with RLTW's proc rate being nerfed the primary and only form of life sustain that's used by most barbarians now is lifesteal.

So this section will be more about how much Lifesteal is required and how you should balance EHP and sustain values.

Lifesteal is a mechanic that allows you to steal health based off a % of the damage you do, that means that to optimize sustain you have to have enough dps for it to be useful. Hence, with lower dps, you must stack as much life sustain as possible. My 1M WW barb has about 70k dps buffed, hence I have to have at least 8% lifesteal. If he had 150k I could skimp it and drop to 5% lifesteal. Follow that principle.

Some of you might want to get higher dps via weapons without lifesteal (because they are cheaper) I would dissuade you from doing that. Having lifesteal on weapons gives you the flexibility to drop lifesteal on the belt for WH which gives more dps than a weapon with no lifesteal. I would refrain from using bloodthirst, more details are in the skill evaluation section.

Survivability = Health Gain over time - Damage taken over time

If your Survivability is in the negative it means either your damage reduction is too low or your life sustain is too low. As you've seen above, optimal damage reduction is 600 AR 6k armor. Hence the only way to go from here is to stack more life sustain, if you're at max possible sustain from gear (8-9, belt/weaps) then it means you've got to get more dps. My 1M barb is proof that this can be accomplished with minimal cost.

As you cross certain DPS thresholds you can start dropping life sustain. However, do not drop too much sustain or you will render yourself unable to combat reflect damage.

I believe survivability to be a way more important stat of measurement than EHP and it this is why Diabloprogress is so flawed in that it cannot rank based on this as survivability is a much better indication of a player's ability to survive in combat instead of EHP.

Life Sustain is a pretty straightforward stat. I think most of you will have very little questions on it.

For Fury sustain.

Fury Sustain is a WW barb's ability to generate fury, the resource required for all barbs to continously cast fury spenders. These included WW and Sprint, the two most commonly used spenders in the WW build.

At this point I assume most of you understand how fury sustain functions. First and formost, you should know that fury is generated from your critical hits as mentoned in the rune "Into the Fray from Battle Rage". Hence critical chance is an essential aspect of a WW barb. It is also tied to your Ticks per second (look above under the Nado tick breakpoint section) and it is hence a byproduct of your IAS.

However what I'm about to tell you next is what most barbs don't understand

When gearing a WW barb always gear a barb defensively first and foremost to be able to handle a higher MP level, before gearing offensively to deal the damage that will allow you to be more efficient in that MP level.

Why?

This is because if you start gearing for DPS before you hit the higher MP levels you will end up killing mobs too quickly in the lower MPs.

What does this mean?
Imagine this, you've WWed past a mob after farting a tornado on a ground that lasts for 3 seconds. If your damage was lower, the mob would have walked into the tornado and died, but only at the 2nd or 3rd second. This would mean during that duration you would have a chance of gaining fury for any crit within those 2 to 3 seconds. However if your DPS is too high you end up killing the mob in the first second of the Nado or less. What this means is that your overall Fury generated is now cut by 2/3s or 1/2.

This is why I always advocate increasing EHP through gear before increasing DPS. Some players can work around this because they're highly skilled at working the barb class, like Wayneold and can compensate the lower EHP with much better playing. Thus allowing them to play on higher MPs with lower defensive stats (they also compensate by picking defensive skills).

I will elaborate later on as to why focusing on defensive stats before moving on to gearing for DPS and not relying on Skills for defensive ability in the skills section.
But for anyone who can't wait here's a screenshot of my maximum buffed dps in an MP10 fight. It's massive. And the reason for it is that none of my skills are defensively orientated.

http://i.imgur.com/YjI1H.jpg
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2E) DPS armor sets. Ideal DPS sets.

There are currently two sets of approaches to the WW build both with the same goal of improving DPS output.

One, focuses on Nado tick rates. In this build players will want to hit specific IAS on their OH to maximise the frequency and hence the total amount of ticks done by Nadoes while having a MH with a high dps range to maximise the damage of each tick. This build is ideal for more economical setups, mainly because it allows you to skimp on your OH dps and effectively allow you wield a "stat stick". As the majority of this build's DPS comes from Nados you can afford to kite more often as your WW will be doing at most 20-30% of your total dps. The negatives of this setup is pretty clear cut as well. As your weapons are setup to optimize a niche skill set you are only able to play that niche skill set properly.

That means it is extremely inefficient to incorporate abilities such as HoTA or Seismic slam or any ability that requires a strong OH to function optimally.

I like this build because of its cost efficiency, if you're planning just to play WW your entire time as a barb, this build is for you. But if you're a player who likes to switch around builds and try other stuff, not a good idea.

To optimize Nado tick rates look up Nubtro's thread:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497

The other setup for the WW barb relies on a completely different approach. This approach is more costly and it is what most geared barbs use today. In this approach you don't aim to stack IAS to hit ridiculously high breakpoints, you have enough IAS to hit the breakpoint you're comfortable with. But you also focus on high MH and OH damage to deal more WW/Frenzy/Bash/Overpower/HoTA damage. This build is flexible as it allows you to pick your form of damage output and doesn't restrict you to Nados as a form of dps. The only flaw with this is that it isn't cheap. But this should be your endgame ideal if you can afford it.

Gearcrafting for an ideal DPS set is pretty flexible. There are many different approaches to it

Objectively, this is what you'd want to accomplish minimally

500 AR.

5.5k armor

2.0 APS breakpoint.

50k hp.

5-8% lifesteal depending on your dps.

As much DPS as possible.

How to stack as much DPS as possible?

For armor, you'd want to focus more on defensive stats, your primary DM from armor will usually be strength and crit chance, the only exception to normally defensive set pieces will be Innas and Witching hour.

For innas, you have to understand that despite the flak it has gotten from the "pro barb community" it actually works. But you really need to go for a very specific setup. For Innas, the reason why you get it primarily is because Ice climbers (IC) has ridiculously high stats for a boots and that 10% to cold res is the strongest mitigation ability from any armor piece in the entire game. However, rolling movement speed on ICs increases it's sale value by 3-4x and makes it unbearably expensive. The second reason why you get it is because it gives you IAS, allowing you to hit a higher breakpoint for Nados without needing to stack it on amulets or rings where it is MUCH more expensive.

What determines the best Innas? Innas as you know has only 1 random roll, most people would consider AR/Str&vit/Vit rolls on innas as viable. I'm here to tell you that AR on innas is completely pointless. Why? Because 70 AR is the maximum roll for each armor. remember what I said about vit and pants? Vit rolls highest on pants/ammy/chest for armor rolls. So to fully optimize your innas, get high rolls of vit on them. You can go Str/vit combinations but these are usually more expensive (1.5-2x more) as they're purchased by barbs who want to make diabloprogress rankings. If you need more AR, stack it somewhere else.

For Witching hour, please understand that for barbs. The IK belt is the best belt of all time, hands down, its the most cost effective gear a barb can have. However, for DPS purposes WH outperforms it by a mile. A well rolled WH can outdps a well rolled IK belt by about 20k+ damage. That is substantial, 20k dps is effectively a 400m weapon upgrade or a 600m ammy upgade.

The problem with witching hour is simple, it is extremely hard to balance out your build without an IK belt. IK belts give you so much damage reduction and sustain, it also contributes to the IK set bonus allowing you to use IC/Mempos/rare gloves. Having a WH means you need to plan all your stats well and optimize each piece. If you're not at that point please avoid using a WH, its not worthwhile.

For me I got IK gloves with all res to compensate for the WH, I still keep my IK belt for RD mobs though. :p

To gear optimal DPS from rings and ammy you have to be mindful of your classes current DM balance, if you have enough IAS from WH/Innas/Mempos/Lacunis like I do, you can skimp on those on rings and ammy to save money. This reduces your reliance on trifectas which are stupidly expensive. Same with sockets, sockets are usually underpriced for the reason that most people can't afford radiant ruby gems.

For rings/ ammy. This is what you should be aiming for Strength/ CC/CD/AVG damage. High values for all of these. Socket if you find one with it.

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2F) Defensive armor sets. Ideal defensive sets.

In this section we'll address defensive sets.

Now there are two ways about this. One is to stack high values on AR and Armor the other is to rely on multiple sources of reduction and stack a decent amount of each on it. I will not go into this because it is straightforward and many of you already do that. The other is to increase % damage reduction in gear.

Really depends on what you can afford and what you want to do. Take note by gearing multiple sources of reduction it is generally hard to increase DPS later on in the game. Your dps is capped to about 100k + whereas if you stack high AR and armor it allows you to easily transpose into a DPS setup as elaborated in Subsection 2F.

In here I'll be showing you how to utilize damage reduction% in your item setup. Credits are to haiyang#1387 who came up with the idea and theorycrafted with me its effectiveness. He's one of the very few barb's i've seen with 400k EHP that can solo mp10 comfortably.

He doesn't fully optimize it though because of budget constraints. But his profile with give you some semblance of how its done. (Take note that his profile is non static because he WILL change it based on his preferences, I'm only showing you how he stacks % reduction, you don't have to copy his gearset)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/haiyang-1387/hero/17716826

To optimize damage % reduction you have to go 3 piece IK, belt/helm/gloves. 4 piece blackthornes, chest/ pants/boots/ammy, stormshield, Litany ring, Band of the hollowed whispers and Lacunis with % ranged reduction.Aim for % elite reduction on blackthorne chest.

In total. You will hit about (not counting the stupid diminishing returns that come with it) 22% melee reduction, 28% elite reduction and 16% ranged reduction. (if all % roll perfect on each item)

Doing this will allow you to completely skimp on ridiculous amounts of all resistance. I believe this build can function with 300 AR and 5k armor. Rest of it goes into DPS/ flat HP.
Take note you can use this build with entry level pieces, meaning the cheapest items for each on the AH. So it's not really expensive at all. Notice on the profile above that he is dual wielding and is using rare ammy and rings. That was the only way to increase dps in that build.

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2G) Weapon choices!

I know most of you have been waiting for this.

Weapon choices is one of the primary reasons why most barbarians waste money. Especially WW barbarians.

First things first. Here's a list of important stats that can roll on weapons (ranked in order of importance):

1. AVG damage.

2. Lifesteal.

3. Socket/Critical Damage (they're essentially the same thing)

4. Strength.

5. Vit.

Why do I rank lifesteal higher than that of critical damage/socket/strength?

I've seen most players gear to improve DPS rankings on offsites like Diabloprogress or etc. On these sites they seem to ignore the value of lifesteal altogether and most players do on the assumption that they can get the bloodthirst passive and proceed to stack for more paper dps. This stupid. Mainly because it puts you in a rut. Lets say if reflect damage gets buffed, (though I really hope not) these players would have suddenly realised "ohshi- I need more lifesteal nao. Changing your weapon in the event of a crisis like that happening is the worst thing that could happen to you. This is because weapons at a higher tier are usually godly... expensive and players who make that mistake commit to errors resulting in losses of hundred millions of gold. Try to avoid that.

Also, the use of the bloodthirst passive is stupid. I know it's massively tempting to go the way of the Diabloprogress DPS rankings but beserker rage or brawler give way more bonuses than you could get off a "10k dps higher weapon with no lifesteal". Some of you might complain that "omg, they have so low uptime" I'd probably respond with a "l2p". I'll go indepth on this in the skill choice section. But this approach to gearing for barbs has been terribad.

A fine example of this is Google337#1271. Recently upon a rumor that orignated off a blue post that RD was going to be nerfed he immediately sold his lifesteal MH (he had only 2.7% on gear then all of it was from his MH, selling it would drop it to 3% from just bloothirst alone) and got a higher dps weap with more critical damage. It was pretty amusing to then watch him die over and over again before he had to resign to the fact that they weren't going to do anything about RD and that having !@#$ty LS and sustain is bad. He promptly bought himself another MH with LS (that was crappier than the previous one he sold). Looking from his finances I'd say he probably lost 1b in that whole fiasco.

Lets run through the 3 most optimum dual wielding setups and two of that includes your favorite fear stick, Echoing Fury (EF).

High DPS MH + EF.

EF + Fast but low dps OH.

High DPS MH + Fast but low dps OH.

Heres some elaboration on each individual setup and my take on which is better.

High DPS MH + EF.

I would say this is the most ideal setup for a barb that you want to be able to play different skill builds. You could be a HoTA/WW hybrid or a throw/WW hybrid. You could play anything. The only cons of this setup is that it's going to be expensive. A high dps EF and a high dps weapon you can expect to cost about 300m per piece. One MH I find really cost effective to fill that slot that fulfills the ranking system I listed above is the Butcher's Sickle. Personally, I've seen a !@#$ton of sickles in the market relatively underpriced compared to their rare counterparts and mostly unsold. The EF fury procs are largely rare and manageable due in part that the only few things that would proc it are WW (though probably only on initial cast), fury generating attacks and Overpower, hence removing the need for a cold SoJ. In this setup, the dps is skewed to WW and other forms of damage dealing skills, however RLTW still deals about half of the dps for your setup so hitting breakpoints are still as important.

EF + Fast but low dps OH.

Alot of players swear by this. This build is a variation on the classic WW build pioneered by kripparian but instead of using a High DPS MH you'll be using an EF to further maximise your RLTW by hitting the higher breakpoint thresholds. However as EF is on MH, it procs way more. I find it quite tough to pin point the source of this but I suspect it has to do with RLTW actually proccing the MH's CC. It's annoying to the point that if anyone runs this setup without a cold SoJ or a cold offhand to keep the fear in check it's an extremely inefficient setup. If you recall Acrimony used to have an EF on MH and a sword on OH. But whenever he advertised his DPS it'd be at 240k... with no cold SOJ or OH. His actual combat dps was much lower because of the fear procs and the fact that a good 30% of the mobs he's trying to kill run off from the pack of mobs he's WWing. Its an example of deceptive skill building that tricks the less informed into thinking that the setup is ideal (high dps, ehp ftw), especially since his MH EF had no lifesteal. I heard he sold his gear for 12b, fanboys + deceptive gearing ftw!

High DPS MH + Fast but low dps OH.

About the same as the above but because of the fact that you don't get the +xx APS it's much harder to hit the APS required to hit the higher breakpoints. You'll realise that as a result you're extremely over reliant on % ias from gear and might make gearing in that respect much harder.

However, you don't constantly fear stuff you attack, so it has its benefits.

Popular misconceptions:

Most players prefer to use a mace or axe for MH. But most do not realise that if your CC is pretty high you can afford to drop the axe or mace as your MH and use a high dps sword as an MH. The 15% from weapon master increases your dps by a decent amount once you've gone past a certain dps value.

ON 2H setups for WW. I don't really know that much about how 2H works because tbh I've avoided it like the plague. Sure, they're awesome for HoTA, rend , seismic slam but WW wise they seem too slow to help in the fury generation process. For that reason I won't comment much on it. But I wouldn't endorse it either.

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2H) Optimizing EF + Weap setups!

Lately I've seen alot of players who are having problems choosing a weapon to pair with their EFs. In short, people don't know what weapons to pick to get the optimal APS setups. Sometimes people pick weapons that cause one weapon's APS to just hit one breakpoint but the other weapon's breakpoints are too low or too high.

Weapons with optimal base APS to pair with EF (assuming + 0.24 APS minimum on EF) are:

Sword (no IAS): 1.40 APS

Axe (+8% IAS): 1.40 APS

Mighty Weapon (+8% IAS): 1.40 APS

Mace (no IAS): 1.2 APS

Spear (no IAS and only for OH use): 1.2 APS

Dagger (+11% IAS): 1.66

Please note that even though I've added in spears, do not use them lol.

These weapon combinations would allow you to have your EF and the other weapon to just about clear breakpoint thresholds.

Any other weapon combination would put either your EF or your other weapon in a position where you're in the middle of two breakpoint thresholds which would equate to wasted % IAS.

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2I) Gearing your follower!

The section below on gearing the scoundrel follower has been deemed outdated and hence, irrelevant. There's another way to gear your follower to help you in locking down pesky elites and clusters of mobs, and this setup will not only cost less, but also allow you to use the enchantress which will make it easier for most of you to hit the IAS breakpoints for Nados.

Guess which weapon will we be using for the enchantress?

:D

Azurewrath! Try to get one with as much IAS and freeze as possible. As the metagame is still currently on Scoundrel + Buriza, most of you will be able to get these relatively cheap. (I hope)

Star of Azkaranth. Get one with as high of a freeze value as possible all of you who've already geared a scoundrel with one, just swap it over to your enchantress.

IAS + Vit + LOH rings. 2x IAS would bump your Enchantress's APS to about 2 APS (with a 20% IAS azurewrath), thats almost 2x faster than the scoundrel! D:

The LOH and VIT is to keep her alive.

Token. As much LOH + VIT as you can find. All res is optional.

The skills you will be using on her would be:

Charm or Forceful Push. Either which it doesn't really matter, all up to personal preference as either decision here is non crucial.

Powered armor. 5% to armor is nice, but the 30% slow to attackers would help you quite abit.

Erosion: Now, this skill takes the cake. When she casts erosion on an area with mobs in it as long as you have a pretty high chance to freeze (15%) you will be amazed at how effective this is. 15% more damage and a disable? Hell yea!

Focused Mind: For all of you WW barbs to buff up your APS, gives you greater ease in hitting your breakpoints. :P

Aight. Thats all folks, this setup is about as effective (maybe even more) than the scoundrel setup, and cheaper too!

I've kept the scoundrel setup up so that those who still want to go that route can refer to it. :D

This is by far my favorite subsection to talk about.

Up till now, most of you probably still use alkaizer's setup to farm. Enchantress with Maximus etc.

What if I told you that you could have a follower transform himself into a mini CM wiz that helps you freeze mobs that you're attacking?

Yep, the scoundrel is by far the most OP follower of all time, but only if you gear him properly.

Take a look at the scoundrel on my female barb.

Buriza with as much pierce as possible/ as much freeze as possible with a socket.

Coupled with 5% more freeze on a star of azkaranth he can have a max possible 20% chance to freeze! That means 1 out of every 5 mobs he hits gets frozen for more than 2 seconds. The pierce, coupled with multishot allows him to hit packs of enemies, freezing them in place.

What this does is increase your overall dps as mobs don't move and stand on your tornadoes and increases your survivability as mobs can't attack you. With Crippling shot, which has a 100% chance to slow for 60% it helps so much with kiting mobs.

The socket on the buriza is for the most expensive amethyst gem you can afford. Why? because the more LOH and Vit you stack on him the less likely he is to die and thus increasing his prescence on the battlefield to CC more often. That and vanish almost nearly renders him unkillable.

Why hysteria instead of anatomy? This is because at higher base DPS hysteria does more of a damage increase than anatomy.

There you have it, the CM wiz scoundrel extraodinaire.
Edited by Uberjager#6563 on 1/14/2013 7:47 AM PST
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3: AH strategies for gearing, what items to look out for, what is build maneuverability, how do you optimize each stat. How price perception shifts your strategy for AH.

Subsections:

3A) AH strategies for gearing. What items do I look out for?

3B) What is build maneuverability? Stat optimization.

3C) Price perception. Avoiding popular items.

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3A) AH strategies for gearing. What items do I look out for?

As you all know, mastering the AH is mastering half the game. Most if not all players rely on the AH for upgrades, for better gear and there are very few players out there that actually use gear that they found themselves.

This section is written to help you make better decisions when finding gear on the AH, it's not mean't to teach you how to "play the AH" because that sorta thing cannot be taught.

Gearing optimally means having to plan out your gearsets even before you start purchasing items.

First of all know your budget. Find out how much you're to spend on each piece.

Figure out the breakpoints you need to hit. What weapons/ IAS you need to hit those. Pick and choose your sources for that IAS.

Then figure out how much EHP/DPS you need.

Stat distributions per piece of armor. Str/Vit/life%/AR/Armor

Do not rule out other forms of EHP. Like Dex, or % damage reduction. They are just as applicable (take note however, you can't dodge ground effects).

CC/CD/AVG damage distributions on rings/ammy.

This is advice players who have the time to spare.

Bide your time, patience is key here. Only purchase gear if you can get it cheaper than market. You don't have to get an upgrade immediately. Wait till something comes along that is underpriced. Every time I've swapped out my MH I've sold my MH at a profit, allowing me to pay for my upgrades but at the same time giving me a decent amount of profit.

Always consider alternatives.

270 str. 150 vit vile wards too expensive?

Why not 270 str. 190 dex. 60 vit vile wards?

High DPS Mace too expensive? Why not a sword?

Always consider your alternatives and always do a cost analysis of whatever you're going to buy. Till today I'm still using the rings I got for 40m/100m respectively. Even though I'm sitting on 4b I don't feel a need to spend my gold on upgrades because a marginal increase would be way too expensive.

Having money/gold does not give you a reason to spend it. Sure, you've just got a real sweet drop that gave you 100m. Does it mean you spend it immediately and impulsively on the AH? No. Do an analysis, dictate the stats of the item you want and the amount you're willing to pay for it. If you find anything that fits the bill go ahead but never make an impulsive buy.

That is why I've always advocated that any player starting out should not upgrade their gear one piece at a time.

Stick to farming MP0-1 with budget gear and then amass enough gold to do a full set upgrade that you won't swap out for a while.

3B) What is build maneuverability? Stat optimization?

(to be added in later)
Edited by Uberjager#6563 on 1/14/2013 7:47 AM PST
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4: Playstyles, build optimization, what most "pro" players are doing wrong, how to min/max. What skills are optimal? How do you plan your build?

Subsections:

4A) Playstyles

4B) Build optimization

4C) Technique (Co-Authored by Wayneold#1685)

4D) Well geared barbs. Y u no theorycraft?

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4A) Playstyles

I believe with the WW build each person has his or her own unique take on the class. In the WW class there are 4 Skills that are mandatory and 2 passive abilities that are always used (but not mandatory).

Those skills and passives are:

Battle Rage: Into the Fray

Without saying, this is the single most important skill for a WW barb or almost 50% of all barb builds out there. Before people realized how this skill worked, barbs were considered the 2nd slowest class ingame for generating resource (Monks are the slowest) and our playstyles were very limited by this. What into the Fray does is that it generates fury on every critical hit, even on those generated from skills like Overpower.

Sprint: Run like the Wind

Your Nado generator. It was infamously remarked upon by many other (jelly) classes as the skill that allowed barbs to kill mobs by "farting clouds".

It is your primary source of dealing damage and for most budget barbs does a majority of your their dps. Because of its mechanic as described in Nubtro's thread (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497) Nados are extremely cheap to optimize.

Nados deal damage based on the MH weapon's damage range but ticks based off the last weapon swung. However, some barbs don't get is that the number of Nados that is maintained at any one time is determined by the distanced traveled. Since Nados have a 3 second duration the only way to optimize this is through movement speed (MS).

Total, you can get 20% MS from Wrath of the Beserker and 40% MS from sprint. How much MS should you get on gear?

With no MS on gear Nados spawned = 4.

With 12% MS on gear Nados spawned = 4.

With 24% MS on gear Nados spawned =5.

This is why it's optimal to have 24% MS on gear. >.> It takes you less time to get from one point to another.

From what I have observed, it does not matter what shape you draw with your Nados with regards to the number of Nados spawned so how you draw your Nados depends on what you hope to achieve and what technique you want to utilize to get there.

This is just a hunch but. It seems that RLTW only procs CC effects from your MH the same way that if you were to have cold damage on your MH it would apply the slow effect. But if you were to have the effect on your offhand it would not apply.

Wrath of the Beserker: Thrive on Chaos

10% CC.
25% IAS.
20% Dodge.
20% MS.

CC Imunity.

WHICH BUFF OUT OF ALL OF THESE IS SOMETHING YOU DON'T NEED?

None, this is easily the best buff ingame. Now, normally the uptime on this great ability is capped to 15seconds. However, with the rune Thrive on Chaos it allows you to extend the uptime of this ability by 1 second for every fury generated. This works perfectly in synchronization with Sprint: RLTW and Battle Rage: Into the Fray. If tick rates on Nados are optimized and the barb has enough crit chance it would generate enough fury to keep WoTB permanently up.

However, most people don't realise that fury cannot be generated if the fury bar is full. Hence for certain players, if the generation is too damn high you've got to dump fury to make space for more fury to be generated. So for players who can't keep up wrath indefinitely check if this is one of the causes for it.

Whirlwind: Hurricane

Allows you to WW through mobs. What this does is:

1. Increase your mobility.

2. Allow you to place Nados where ever you choose.

3. Act as a second source of damage on top of your Sprint:RLTW.

Optimizing WW is also part of Nubtro's thread: (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497)

The two passives that are commonly used for WW barbs are:

Ruthless

Pretty self explanatory. 5% CC and 50% CD is massive (effectively the stats of a near perfect CC and CD roll on a ring)

Weapons Master

Most people get it for the 10% CC especially if they're budget barbs and require cheap sources of CC. Personally I use the 15% damage bonus from a sword MH. This works really well if you already have 50%+ CC from gear + ruthless. Especially if you intend to use HoTA. This is because HoTA tends to hit max CC because of its mechanic so the 15% damage is more valuable for it.

Its a pity that the IAS% bonus for spear MH is too low, I've tested it and the % IAS bonus it gives is not worth it being a MH.

For the 3 fury a hit with Mighty Weaps I wouldn't consider it a viable option unless you're farming really low MP levels and fury generation there is a problem.

That leaves you with 2 Skills and 1 passive slot free.

Now, the skill choices for these is up to debate.

With those 2 skills and 1 passive slot free players are free to choose whatever setup they desire, based off whatever playstyle they prefer. However as I assume most of you are gearing for maximum efficiency here, I'm going to focus on only the most efficient choices for those 2 skill slots.

The skills that I will present are divided into two sections:

1. Defensive Skills.

2. Offensive Skills.

Pretty Straightforward.

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Defensive Skills.

I'd advise against using these abilities as one of your two skill slots. Simply because I believe that if you've itemized and geared properly, you don't need to rely on them at all, its better if your defensive ability came from your armor and your skill slots are more offensively oriented.

Overpower: Crushing Advance

With a decent enough crit, you can spam it enough to ensure 100% uptime. Not only does it function as a defensive skill, it also functions as an offensive skill. (160% damage on cast)

How it works in reducing damage is explained in Section 2 under Damage reduction. Please look it up, it'll explain why OP: CA is the best damage mitigation ability for undergeared barbs.

The reflected damage however is negligible, hence I won't go into it.

Warcry: Impunity

Alot of players still insist on using this ability. To tell you the truth, it's no longer as useful as before.

Skill description explains how it works. It also functions as source of initial fury. Generally I'd prefer OP: CA over it because OP:CA gives more overall benefit defensive and offensive wise. The only time WC:IMP works optimally is when you've got high armor and AR. In which case you no longer need the defensive stats.

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Offensive Skills

Fury Generators

Under this section I will adress bash and Frenzy. I will not address cleave, its a terrible skill for WW.

Frenzy: Vanguard


Really great ability that's pretty underused. Most people prefer to use Frenzy: Maniac but to tell you the truth, in lower MPs the 20% damage boost doesn't really count for much. Vanguard's so much better as a rune choice for lower MPs because it gives you more mobility and more mobilty equates to faster clears. More mobility also makes it harder for mobs to get an attack off on you.

Frenzy: Maniac /Bash: Punish

People prefer to use Bash: Punish over this because Bash: Punish gives a maximum of 24% bonus as opposed to Frenzy: Maniac which gives 20% at maxed stacks. The reason why I prefer Frenzy: Maniac is because Bash: Punish knocks enemies away, which is completely pointless as a WW barb since you want the mob you're hitting to remain still, standing on top of your Nados. Also, because of the increased attack speed of Frenzy at 5 stacks, maintaining the stacks doesn't not require much time, you could actually just tap once to get one frenzy attack off while you're doing turns around a mob and scarcely notice the difference.

Bash: Instigation

Still applicable in the lower MPs, but with the increased base fury gen of Bash it's no longer as useful as before. It's something you use if you really have problems with fury generation (though in that situation I'd say your build probably has other issues that need to be fixed) but if you're finding yourself having to rely on it, it's probably a symptom of a bigger issue, you've got terrible fury generation on your RLTW and Into the Fray.

Weapon Throw

I've seen a few players swear by it. Tbh, it's a stupid ability for WW unless you're either really squishy in which case you're being a complete cheapscate with your defensives or you like wasting time by throwing stuff at mobs that you'd probably fare better bashing the face in.

Why? For one, it means you have to get a decent amount of -throw weapon on your abilities, any less would mean you find yourself in situations where you're unable to generate enough fury in time (think treasure goblins) . Two, it usually means you're running No Escape as the third passive which if you ask me is a complete and utter waste of the slot. Three, its terrible dps, really terrible as compared to the other fury generators.

It's only saving grace is that its the highest fury generator ability for barbs (Bash: Instigation comes close second) but having to use No Escape as your third passive is highly inefficient.

Fury Spenders/ Overpower: Killing Spree

Hammer of the Ancients: Smash

Great ability with great single target dps. It's ideal for kiting mobs and goblins. But the main issue with it is simple, it being a pretty costly fury spender it usually means you have to manage your fury well or have a fury generator on your second skill slot. Even so, with it's high dps output it has almost zero AOE functionality.

I could HoTA one elite mob and the other one just a small distance away wouldn't get hit. From that, my only application for HoTA is on goblins and those Gold Champion packs. I generally prefer to use WW/RLTW rather than HoTA on Blue Champions.

On the basis of personal preference, due to the limited usage of HoTA (examples listed above) its a skill that won't be present on my Skill bar. Don't get me wrong, some people like the skill and for many, its a essential part of their builds. I just don't like it.

Rend: Ravage

Its a skill that is great in certain situations, really bad in some. I believe Nubtro has done tests on this skill so if you want more detailed information, go to him.

Reason why I choose Ravage out of all the runes is simple. The way rend is used to optimize builds is that it allows you to clear trash really fast and the bigger AOE allows you to apply rend on more mobs. If you have just enough dps, a single rend is all it takes to wipe out a whole group of trash mobs, at the same time, that damage will be too low to wipe out the mobs with WW and RLTW. (please note I'm not taking into account players with ridiculously high APS values)

What this allows you to do is walk through the entire map, casting rend only in large clumps of trash mobs, this will allow you to not actually engage the mobs with RLTW/WW and have to run around in a circle (which takes time) .

Credit goes to Alkaizer#1727 with coming up for this.

Here is a video of my barb (with throttled damage) EXP farming on mp0.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTCaBRrGqW4&feature=plcp

Seismic Slam: Rumble

I used this skill alot when 1.05 got released (PTR as well) but for WW purposes the reason as to why it's not efficient is because of the same reason that goes for Bash. Knocking units out of your Nados.

Other than that, SS: RMB is a really good fury spender though it probably works better in a non WW setup.

Overpower: Killing Spree

By far the highest and most consistent damage over time ability out of all the other skills listed above.
Why?

1. It gives you 10% CC (which allows you to proc OP:KS more often)

2. It can be cast WHILE you're WWing. Unlike abilities like rend and HoTA you don't need to stop.

3. It has incredible synergy with the WW build.

Synergy due to the fact that WW barbs usually have pretty high critical chance especially coupled with OP:KS gives you about on average 70% CC fully buffed. This means that on every crit on WW and RLTW it has a chance to reduce its cooldown by 1s.

With my current setup on my female barb it would mean that I can cast it once every second. (sometimes less). Thats 160% damage per second extra. Massive.

Thats it for skill choices in WW. I will add more if I ever come across a skill that's really really good. But for now. Here you go.

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Passives

In this section I will regard all defensively oriented passives (those that give EHP) as similar and thus will NOT go indepth into each and everyone of them. If you lack defenses pick and choose whichever defensive passive you want or works best for you. There isn't any much thinking to do when going about that.

There are two passives that are pretty much mandatory for any build, but these are self explanatory. They are Ruthless and Weapons Master.

Ruthless is pretty straightforward, so I'm not going there.

For weapons master its also pretty much straightforward so I will not be going indepth into those.

What I'm more interested in is in discussing about the utility/ damage boosting passives.

Here you go:

Utility Passives:

Animosity

It's a great passive for lower MP running as it allows you to generate enough fury off nados but at the same time kill stuff at pretty decent speeds. (please read up the fury sustain portion in section 2 if you have issues conceptualizing it) At higher MP levels however it is almost completely irrelevant as mobs don't die fast enough that you become fury starved.

Unforgiving

The application of Unforgiving is almost similar to Animosity with the exception that players seem to use it without WoTB and with an IK set for 4 fury generation a second. This allows them to not rely on Nados and WW for fury generation thus taking the need to balance dps to MP level for fury sustain. Personally, I don't advocate it, but players who do prefer it, its your personal preference. I can't argue with that.

Bloodthirst

3% lifesteal is a pretty huge boost for a passive, but what I find that this does is allow players to drop lifesteal on their gear just so they can stack more dps on gear then compensate for the lack of life generation with bloodthirst. I never sat too well with that because certain offensive passives give way more of a bonus as compared to any dps upgrade you can get off sacrificing lifesteal from gear. Secondly. It's always

You can tell I'm not really a huge fan of utility passives. They're mainly for fury generation and life generation purposes which tbh, is largely solved by proper itemization. But there are some instances where utility passives are really useful. Lower MP level speed farms are one of them.

Offensive Passives:

This is where it gets fun, the only two offensive passives for barbs other than Ruthless and Weapons master are Beserker Rage and Brawler and both of which can boost your damage dealt by large amounts but only if they are used correctly. Personally, because of the fact that you're constantly depleting your fury Beserker Rage does not work as well as Brawler due to its lack of uptime.

Brawler

By far the most underrated passive of all time. It's uptime is actually far higher than you think in higher MP levels as the mobs having so much HP are more likely to cluster around you for a longer period of time. When facing elite packs Wayneold and I both run a meatgrinder technique (look at wayneold's technique section below for details) which funnels a stream of trash mobs into elite packs allows us to almost permanently keep the 35% damage bonus up.

What I found that you could do with brawler as well is to speed run the middle MP levels (5-7) in keeps 2 with a Rend and Run build. The Rend and Run Build always puts you in a position where every rend cast gets the brawler bonus.

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4B) Build optimization
I would normally consider this section irrelevant for my own gearing. This is because I don't choose the skills to fit my gear, I choose the gear to fit the skills I want to play.

But for most other players out there you've probably already made the decision to gear that way. I can respect that. I'd prefer that from now on, most of you start making preparations to find a skill setup you're comfortable with and then gear yourself to optimize that skill set.

These are some skill setups that I personally consider as optimal. Some of you might disagree but its really all personal preference.

And please take note ultimately the sole objective of you playing a game is to have fun. Optimal is optimal but if you feel real bored playing it, make a few tweaks of your own. I'm not going to nail you down to a specific setup and tell you that's the only one worth playing. I'll just tell you the best way to go about doing it. Up to you whether you want to play it or not.

MP10 Speedfarm:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WhQRPU!ZgY!cZZYcZ

Swap Frenzy:Maniac out for Bash: Punish if you feel like it.

Low Damage Reduction on gear setup:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WhQRPU!ZeY!bZbYcZ

Fury generator can be fully replaced by another skill. I prefer Frenzy: Vanguard.

Rend and Run MP1:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WhcRPU!hWY!bZaYcZ

Rend and Run MP5-6+ (Only if you've got decent dps)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WhcRPU!ZgY!bZaYcZ

_______________________________________________________________________________
4C) Technique

For this section it will be co-written by Wayneold, I believe he knows way more about how to optimize the WW build (playstyle wise and technique) than I ever could.

On why we usually prefer to use keeps 2 for videos the main reason is because of the high mob concentrations in the area it saves us time from having to group stuff together.

For now, here's his part on WW Technique.

TACTICS AND STRATEGY OF WHIRLWIND

Brought to you by Wayneold

Uberjager has asked me to assist with the guide by providing some tactics and strategy that I personally use with the whirlwind build in order to promote efficiency with the build. I fully expect him to add to this portion of the guide but here is my contribution to this great guide without further ado:

Starting a battle

As many of you know there are several skills within different whirlwind builds that allow you to gain the fury necessary in order to begin sprinting, and then the process of whirlwinding down large packs of enemies all at once. Some people prefer bash, frenzy, cleave, or even weapon throw with the no escape passive active among others. These are traditional ways of gaining fury and are self explanatory, hit the enemies, gain fury, begin sprinting and whirlwinding, Battle Rage-Into the Fray will continue to generate fury and it becomes a perpetual system until there are no longer enemies to draw critical hits from in order to gain fury.

Although the traditional build works wonderfully for a lot of high end Barbarians, and they are able to use the buffs from Frenzy-Maniac or Bash-Punish in order to make the whirlwind and sprint skill even more effective (see Uberjager's build, and I am sure he can accompany this with a video if so requested) I have stuck with a build that does not require a fury generator, instead choosing to lean heavily on skills like Overpower, and interchangeably Rend, Revenge, War Cry, and whatever else I feel like running with the build. Immortal King's 5 set utility of fury regeneration, and more importantly fury no longer degenerating assists with this type of a build and tactic, but is NOT NECESSARY. You can run a non-fury generating build without IK 5 set, here is a video of me starting a battle on 3 seperate occasions without the 5 set bonus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SucfPnqFwww&feature=youtu.be

How I accomplish running without a fury generator is by accessing the other way of generating fury: being struck by enemies. A lot of people forget about this way to generate fury, and since it is often overlooked it is not viewed by most as a viable option to gaining enough fury to begin a battle. In essence without IK 5 set what you do to begin a battle is run into an area with enemies, stand still and get struck by enough enemies in order to cast Battle Rage-Into the Fray, then cast Overpower, hope it proc's Into the Fray and you have enough fury to begin sprinting and WWing, but if it does not then you have to wait be struck enough to then cast sprint and begin the process of WWing. From there on out running a build without a fury generator (and no IK 5 set) comes down to timing, watching your fury, and understanding how to end the battle with full fury by sprinting a single target enemy to death.

The reason I bring up the build differences in a section about tactics and strategy is because your build shapes a lot of your tactics. Obviously with skills like Bash, Frenzy, or anything else that can generate fury on demand some of the tactics I share here might not apply to you (like whirlwinding down a single target, or even a goblin) Both builds have their advantages and disadvantages, but from here on out I will provide some tactics and stratgies for the WW build, however, keep in mind that your specific build or playstyle may not be able to utilize all of these tactics.

Now that the battle is started, let's move on to how to WW with the best of them.

Make Whirlwind work for you!

Believe it or not Whirlwind is not as mindless as it seems. The people that are able to do it most effectively have gotten down the timing for the individual skills, take advantage of their buffs (Wrath of the Berzerker and/or Brawler anyone?) and understand the weaknesses that their gear has and they are able to get around that by using not only the skills on the toolbar, but tactics while in game.

People with higher-end gear are able to plunge right into the center of groups of enemies, forget about nearly any monster affix, and have confidence that their barbarian will come spinning out the other side unscathed. So, for fun here is me doing that in MP10 with a large group I pulled in the Fields of Slaughter:

http://youtu.be/c2UsnM6J7jM

Now, if your barbarian has gearing deficits, lower health or defense, and simply can not afford to take the required amount of damage to just run right into the center of a large group of enemies never fear, there are ways around such shortcomings. The easiest way to not take damage is by simply avoiding it. I need not tell you that standing in molten, descecrator, plagued, or arcane beams is something that if given a choice you should avoid, however, there are other ways to avoid taking damage simply by being tactical. When you plunge your barbarian into the center of a group of enemies he/she is exposed to many monsters all at once that would love to execute your barbarian as quickly as possible. If you choose to take an approach where you spin around a larger group of enemies though, you expose yourself to less enemy damage, a novel idea. A diadvantage to such a tactic is that your sprint tornados and whirlwind stikes hit less enemies, and make your clear times lengthier, but nothing extends the time it takes to clear a level then multiple deaths, so if you find yourself unable to plunge right into the center of a group of enemies, consider the tactic I like to call tracing the enemies, here is a video of the tactic in practice:

http://youtu.be/Wd5gYsTRE-k

While farming you will rarely be greeted with an overwhelming group of enemies that provide nearly limitless fury and allow you to just destroy them all at once. When it happends, it is glorious, but in all practicality, it does not happen all that often. This is when you need to develop a sense of timing and understanding of your skills and your damage output. You need to know when to leave a group of enemies to die to your sprint tornado's or in some cases your Rend damage over time. Sitting on a group of enemies and whirlwinding them down to the absolute last one is not an effective farming strategy, you are much better off allowing some monsters to trail you not only from a fury generating standpoint, but also because your sprint tornados are generating potential damage behind you, so you might as well use that to your advantage. This tactic is especially important for lower MP levels where enemies tend to die fairly quick. Here is a video of me in MP 4, and while watching it take note that I am rarely present for the last kill of any group because I am already well on my way to the next set of enemies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEOkh3K_iCI&feature=youtu.be

Being confident that your tornados can handle the remaining damage necessary to kill remaining monsters is an aquired skill and very gear specific, but timing the effective damage remaining in your tornados and being able to get to the next pack of enemies in time to continue your Wrath of the Berzerker for long stretches of time will allow you to maximize your efficiency with the build.

Now that I have mentioned Wrath of the Berzerker, a common question I see on the message boards is how to maintain it indefinently. First thing's first: you need the Thrive on Chaos rune in order to do this, next, you need enough critical hit chance, IAS, and movement speed (more move speed = more tornado's produced from sprint) to be able to generate fury necessary to keep the buff. Also, the monsters must have enough health on whatever MP level you are on to support being hit enough to generate that fury. Beyond that, it is all dependent on tactics.

Wrath of the Berzerker is by far the best singular buff in the game, it gives you amazing offensive and defensive buffs along with crowd control immunity....who wouldn't want this buff 100% of the time? Keeping it maintained indefinently comes down to 2 things, generating enough fury, and spending excess fury.

Fury generated while at maximum of your globe does not increase the uptime of Wrath of the Berzerker, this is a VERY IMPORTANT thing to understand, and it is the cause of most people losing the buff. Fury generation is rarely the issue, but it is the gentle balance of spending the fury necessary so that all fury gained is applied to keeping the buff. In order to spend fury the Whirlwind has 2 consistently used skills that are able to accomplish such a task, Battle Rage and Sprint. These skills must be used when they can be in order to drop fury to a level where fury gained is applied toward keeping Wrath of the Berzerker.

I generate enough fury where during WW battle except on single target I can spam Battle Rage every time it is available, when I have a single target or so many enemies that I can't spend enough fury I like to double or triple tap the Sprint skill. A lot of people make their mistake on this....if you just continue to hit sprint constantly you will not produce tornados until the last use of the skill, it resets the tornados produced every time you click the skill, by double or triple tapping the skill, allowing 2-3 seconds for your tornados to produce, then repeating that you can effectively drop your fury and refill it without bottoming out your fury. Here is a video of me using such a tactic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y13-ogR_CEk&feature=youtu.be

As you can see, the timer on my Wrath of the Berzerker does not count down hardly at all even on single targets, plus I am actually able to add time to the buff when I find a pack large enough to support the fury generation necessary.

I will reference the video above for the next tactic for effective Whirlwinding, tornado placement. In order for tornado's to produce from sprint, a certain amount of ground must be covered. Spinning in small, concentric circles does not produce tornados because it does not cover enough ground on the map, therefore you need to either spin and sprint in a larger circle, or go in a back and forth motion. In the video you see me alternate between doing in circles and a back and forth motion depending on the map and enemy placement. Spinning in a circle slightly larger then the diameter of the toradoes produced by Sprint seems to give the most benefit to killing individual targets while moving back and forth to produce tornadoes has always been my favorite tactic when the enemy is confined to a hallway, or the enemy alignment allows for such a move. Tornado placement is something that is developed over time, and you will learn how big or small to make your circles or back and forth paths to distribute the most tornaados on a given target. With enough practice (and a cold Stone of Jordan ring) you can even Whirlwind down a goblin in MP10 without much of an issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plxkQN-9z2o&feature=youtu.be

Also, in this video at 3:42 you can see how to whirlwind down a single target elite, this was taken when I still had my old gear, so kill time is a bit longer, but I also had lower crit chance and attack speed in this video, which shows it is possible to effectively Whirlwind down single targets with enough practice and a little skill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p56XSaqHYKY

The last tactic I will touch on is affectionately known by Uberjager as the "Meatgrinder". It is simply luring larger groups of mobs into smaller groups to produce more fury, damage (with brawler) and speed up clear times by damaging more enemies at one time. It is no secret that Whirlwind barbs wish there was just an entire level wall to wall packed with enemies because with the right amount of sustain we could ravage the entire room in a matter of seconds without much of an issue. The more enemies that are constnatly within your tornados and whirlwind range, the faster your clear speeds will be.You should always be trying to maximize the damage potential of every tornado and every spin of Whirlwind by including as many enemies as possible to the area which is being most heavily damaged. We can do that by tagging groups of enemies and allowing them to trail in our tornados while damaging elites or other monsters with larger pools of health. It is better to continue to move and allow the elites or other mobs to travel with you to larger groups, that way more enemies are being damaged faster, and the elite will eventually succomb as well. Don't get tunnel vision by thinking you must kill each monster individually before you move on to the next one. Gather them all up and burn them down all at once if you can.

This tactic should be evident is nearly all my videos, so a specific one is being omitted unless someone requests it.

Hopefully this tactics and strategy portion of the guide brought to you by Wayneold has helped some of the people still struggling with the Whirlwind build, happy spinning, and thanks again to Uberjager for creating this comprehensive guide to this class and build.

Take care and happy spinning!


_________________________________________________________________________________
4D) Well geared barbs. Y u no Theorycraft?

I see many barbs out there who are pretty well geared, although they rank really high on diabloprogress (or are pretty famous) in terms of DPS and EH most of them don't gear themselves optimally.

They stack too much sheet DPS but because the DPS is based off IAS which is wasted their actual dps doesn't change.

They stack too much EHP but have not enough sustain to make it worthwhile.

And the glaring issue with most of them is breakpoint issues.

Take Moldran for example. I love his stream, but he's simply not gearing his barb optimally.

Take note that all of my analysis is dated 1/4/13 5:05 PM (PST).

Their gear might have changed by then and this critique is no longer as accuate.

________________________________________________________________________________
Moldran#2176 Gear Analysis.

Moldran's current APS with WoTB is 2.7027 / 3.0807 with his Stone of Jordan.

Even with his 8% ring on. His APS is 2.8171 / 3.2111.

These are the two breakpoints he's missing (courtesy of Nubtro's thread)
2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 fpt - 10.0 tps - 483.33% dps
3.33334-4.00000 aps - 5 fpt - 12.0 tps - 580.00% dps

Even with his 8% ring and an echantress, his APS is 2.8762 / 3.2702

Which puts his MH over the 2.85715-3.33333 breakpoint but doesn't raise his OH over the 3.33334-4.00000 breakpoint.

In short. He could be using a Spear or a Mace and it wouldn't make a difference. Infact it would probably give him more dps as he would be able to optimize WW's OH tick damage.

Despite what most players say I do not advocate going 1 itemslot with LS and then getting bloodthirst. But as that is largely personal preference, I won't go about that.

Lets compare him to kingkongor#2672. Most people would say that KingKongor is probably the most geared scrub of all time. I admit, his ability at playing could be alot better but lets look at his gear.

________________________________________________________________________________
kingkongor#2672 Gear Analysis.

This is kingkongor#2672's APS with WoTB.

2.8944 / 3.2964

This is kingkongor#2672's APS with WoTB and Enchantress.

2.9547 / 3.3567

Take note. These are the breakpoints.

2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 fpt - 10.0 tps - 483.33% dps
3.33334-4.00000 aps - 5 fpt - 12.0 tps - 580.00% dps

Kongor actually optimizes his breakpoints :O

But sadly. There is one thing slightly off with his setup. Take note that his APS is from both of his rings. And the fact that he has an EF in his MH without a Cold SoJ means that he spends quite some time chasing down stuff.

Ouch.

This is his revised APS with a Cold SoJ. (WoTB + Enchantress)

2.8371 / 3.2231.

Falling short of

2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 fpt - 10.0 tps - 483.33% dps
3.33334-4.00000 aps - 5 fpt - 12.0 tps - 580.00% dps

Furthermore, Kongor has 0 lifesteal on gear. Yes, 0 lifesteal.

*facepalm*

If anyone out there want's me to critique another top player. Give me suggestions. I chose the two biggest streamers out there as more people will be familiar with them.
Edited by Uberjager#6563 on 1/14/2013 7:49 AM PST
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Section 5: -Updating-
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Section 6: Conclusion
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Section 1: The history of the WW.
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if i plan to run WT/WW/hota. should my third passive be no escape or animosity?
I now mainly do uber mp8 with my friends.

i will be also aiming to get a budget IK chest to complete the set and help in fury generating, since I won't be using a fury generator skill
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if i plan to run WT/WW/hota. should my third passive be no escape or animosity?
I now mainly do uber mp8 with my friends.

i will be also aiming to get a budget IK chest to complete the set and help in fury generating, since I won't be using a fury generator skill


No escape generates more fury than animosity.

Provided you keep spamming WT.

Good plan on the IK set.
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Great guide! You've inspired me. I've been running a skorn rend build for some time now, and I'm thinking of Re-gearing a bit to revisit a ww build. I have some dual weild weapons that should show up on my profile now.

So, I'm planning on running ww for leveling and hota / rend for ubers and keys. I still have the skorn too which might be a good uber option.

Anyway, based on my profile, any advice on weapon placement / swapping and or gear upgrades for dps increases is much appreciated.
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Great guide! You've inspired me. I've been running a skorn rend build for some time now, and I'm thinking of Re-gearing a bit to revisit a ww build. I have some dual weild weapons that should show up on my profile now.

So, I'm planning on running ww for leveling and hota / rend for ubers and keys. I still have the skorn too which might be a good uber option.

Anyway, based on my profile, any advice on weapon placement / swapping and or gear upgrades for dps increases is much appreciated.


Great setup btw. :P

Consider putting an EF on your offhand?
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This is a great writing, entertaining, informative, and keep something useful, sensible to the community (otherwise full pages of mostly useless/ non-sense posts). While I may have only few different opinion below (I agree with all parts else), it does not deter the fact that this is a great topic.

You can't really claim Uber WW with no Cold WW SoJ. At 350K sheet DPS at highest optimum WW breakpoint, do you know how much actually WW+RLTW hits Elites at 25+% >2 millions damage per second (at 3.5 RLTW).

Here are some stats: http://www.d3rawr.com/d-66Pzf
"Skill Damage" tab
Main Hand swing before using Sprint and WW: 2001125 DPS
Off Hand swing before using Sprint and WW: 2190293 DPS

Or another tDPS calculation variation by Lorenze
vs. Elite:
tDPS: 2095709
BES: 9641420

Life regained by LS: 25149 HP per second
Life regained total: 25149 HP per second

1% LS: 994 LoH
1000 LoH: 1.01% LS

To achieve such truely high DPS, you need to break the optimum WW breakpoint below for MH then OH respectively.

2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 frames per tick - 10.0 ticks per second - 30 ticks
3.33334-4.00000 aps - 5 frames per tick - 12.0 ticks per second - 36 ticks

So this counter what you think about EF being a bad MH option, Nope, actually it's the only option for claiming a truely Uber WW Barb, along with an ultimate Dagger. Planning all gears' affixes to achieve highest optimum WW breakpoint while maintaining high EHP, %Crit Chance, %Crit Damage, Stats, Resistances is a science at the same time an art. Just be creative, use DPS calculator, think out of the box, try different idea.

Life Steal on Weapons, very nice to have but not mandatory, at >2M DPS my Barb LS >25K (overkill).

Fear proc on EF breaks the WW? I barely see any Fear when my Barb WW, at least never a problem at all. Cold SoJ is one mitigation, another solution is perfect when combo with such SoJ.. Have you ever experienced a 6.5% Chance to Freeze on Hits from 36 ticks per 3 seconds tornadoes & WW. Basically whatever you're spinning at, it will just be either frozen (6.5% freeze 36 ticks per 3 sec.) there or chilling slow from SoJ. See female Barb profile, 6.5% Freeze + Cold WW SoJ. I destroy MP10 SiegeBreaker grabbing cycle by Freezing it to death. All Ubers are frozen every other few seconds <-- how much EHP this frozen actually worth? When Ubers/ Elites are frozen they cannot hit you. Virtually you have invincible status there when they're frozen.

I know realisiticly a guide cannot suggest readers in general that they look for a Cold WW SoJ nor a high DPS with %Freeze weapons/ Belt. Some of those are virtually unreachable for most readers.
Edited by MayaVisage#6720 on 11/30/2012 7:05 PM PST
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@maya.

I've got a few points to make.

Elite Vs Trash Clear time

Only reason why I prefer non SoJ rather than SoJ is simple.

Cuz. In MP10, your clearspeed on each full clear is mainly determined by trash mobs. Not elites.

For me, with SoJ elite clear = 30 seconds flat.

Without SoJ, its 35 seconds on average.

In short, for that 5 second advantage on elites. I lose alot more time on trash mobs.

Wasting time determining last weapon swung

Also, the main issue with having a high DPS MH and a fast OH is simple.

For you to get optimum damage output, you have to check which weapon was the last swung, how long does that take you to setup?

Cost Vs Effectiveness.

Finally, the overall dps difference from one Nado threshold to another is great. But as you get to a certain threshold the cost to effectiveness ratio of the setup required to hit those points drop. (unless you're willing to spend a bomb on equipment.)

Also,

On clearspeed. I suggest you do a video about your setup, I'm interested to see how it performs as well and it would be nice to compare with Wayneold's videos and mine for optimal clearspeed.
Edited by Uberjager#6563 on 11/30/2012 7:08 PM PST
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@Maya

I love your gear.....great concept, well thought out.

By the way, what are your clear speeds?
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 11/30/2012 7:12 PM PST
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With regards to mh n oh , your Ef in oh do you think it is ideal to have double crit or open socket life steal
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@Maya lovely belt you got there
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11/30/2012 07:22 PMPosted by Wockets
@Maya lovely belt you got there


Haha I believe Dakkon has some insight as to how effect it is for WW.
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i think you care a little too much about this video game.

video game.

game.

step outside for a while.
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11/30/2012 08:55 PMPosted by Uberjager
@Maya lovely belt you got there


Haha I believe Dakkon has some insight as to how effect it is for WW.


O.o ? Enlighten me pls
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i think you care a little too much about this video game.

video game.

game.

step outside for a while.


Iono, yesterday I went to do a medical checkup for my travel visa.

Read a good deal of "The End of History and the Last Man".

Spent the evening and night at my grandpa's 80th and talking to relatives.

What did you do yesterday? lol.
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