Diablo® III

Phantasm vs Acid Cloud

Is there any advantage to phantasm? Acid cloud does more damage over less time in a greater area. And procs better. I don't think the mana difference and ability to pass through walls justifies its complete inferiority.
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Phantasm sucks.

I used to think it was 'okay' but that's back in 1.03 when I was still using Firepits for damage/proc and when WoS sucked hard too.

Phantasm's 3 limit cap makes no sense to me when Wizard can keep stacking Wicked Wind. Both are similar runes.

They don't have to be the same but Phantasm needs help. Even if you can stack 3 of them and the monsters are not moving at all, the damage isn't amazing.
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If phantasm could stack indefinitely would that make it viable?
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a viable question would be... are DoTs stacks?
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Yes they are stacks
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Even with 3 stacked, it's damage is pretty poor. I think phantasm needs a different effect to make it unique when compared to other AoE spells; something along the lines of enemies have 10% chance to get haunted when hit by phantasm. If you don't have haunt rune it uses non-rune version of haunt. That would add some synergy and make it different when compared to other spells.
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Only use I have found for it is that you can kite mobs through it. Acid cloud needs to hit right on top of the mob to dmg appropriately, which can be a little tough when you are kiting for dear life. You can just throw up a chain of phantasm's behind you and they have to run through them and take damage.

I'm not saying the skill is better than acid cloud, or even viable, but that is one use for it.
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12/02/2012 07:58 PMPosted by JangBahadur
If phantasm could stack indefinitely would that make it viable?


I would say that is a very good direction to go for since Wicked Wind has no cap and they are pretty similar?

I am not sure if "damage" is this rune's biggest problem. I mean even if it has decent damage, it still needs to compete with AC and Bear for aoe.

It may need some utilities. something more unique.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 12/4/2012 3:17 PM PST
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The advantage in phantasm is that i can spam 3 of them quickly, and while they are doing their moderate damage i can poison dart for the 4-5 seconds before they go away, so in this sense I am doing a greater amount of damage than acid cloud, which requires constant spamming and cannot be stacked.
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You'd rather cast 3 phantasms every 5 seconds than cast 1 acid cloud every 3 seconds? You spend more time spamming phantasms to maintain them than you would if you used acid cloud. I guess phantasms have a visual graphic to let you know when you need another.
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12/04/2012 11:08 PMPosted by VictoriousDN
I guess phantasms have a visual graphic to let you know when you need another.


So does AC, ya know the green bubbly goo on the ground?

I really want phantasm to be viable, but without a big damage and or range boost there's no comparison.
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off topic here- actually that gave me an idea, why can't blizz design a new synergy system where all the skills may synergize with each other like they did in d2, but in this case the skills synergizes with each other if they're in the skills slot or when used together? just a random thought

now for the discussion, yea i used to like phantasm just cus it looks so cool and makes a WD more unique but not good enuff. I kept coming back to zb, even tho i dont like it :/
Edited by Maxiel#1888 on 12/5/2012 12:21 AM PST
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I loved Phantasam when I was storming through NM & Hell. I used it up until Inferno lol. I even used it to kill Diablo in Hell. Here's the build I used.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#WZgTUk!eWa!babZaZ

I had soooo much fun just locking things down with all the slow from Grasp and ZWall. Toads and Phantasam made everything just melt... I couldn't stand how quickly I went OOM when I used AC. Phantasam & RoT was sweeeeet with all that slow. But then came Inferno... Phantasam went out the window lol.

If they buffed it well, I'd use it again.
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Yeah Phantasm is pretty much free and spammable with RoE whereas AC and Bears requires a ton of mana. That's a big difference.
If Phantasm had indefinite stacks then it would be more use certainly because you could use it as a main damage dealer.

Just looked at wicked wind. Wow! It's the exact same thing. Why doesn't Phantasm stack like it?
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If only WW and phantasm were the same, WW actually procs, while Phantasm barely does.
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Phantasm's proc rate is actually VERY nice, double WW. Of course as a side note, it doesn't stack at all, making it worthless. Well, I don't know that it doesn't stack, but that does seem to be the common assumption here.

Wizards WISH they could proc like we do.

We wish we could proc something other than low CC chance and LoH... For all of blizz's talk of nerfing ratios to keep from abusing Legs, they didn't actually introduce ANY legs that can be abused...
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12/07/2012 01:16 AMPosted by Guybrush
Wizards WISH they could proc like we do.


Umm...they do
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Even if Wicked Wind has less proc rate, a good Wizard can cast like 2-3 under 1s and there is no cap. T_T

I rather have WW than Phantasm but to be honest, I don't want to identical rune.

I don't know what it is but Phantasm needs to stand out more.
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12/07/2012 03:49 AMPosted by Yxalitis
Wizards WISH they could proc like we do.


Umm...they do


There is nothing in this game that procs as well as acid cloud, nothing. And phantasm procs better than WW, twice the rate. Spider queen? A passive .3 proc per tic (.6 per second) that you cast once every 15 seconds. In terms of primary they likely have us beat with living lightning, but RoT is great as well. Really, it all comes down to Acid Cloud Acid rain. This has HUGE proc against a MASSIVE area. If we had something worth procing... Well, that'd be nice.
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Phantasm is among many runes that desperately need buffing/redesign in upcoming patches. Along with every Plague of Toads rune other than RoT and every ZC rune other than Bears. Would love to see some redesigning with Bats also.
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