Diablo® III

RMTAH (RMAH) must stay! It's not Pay 2 Win ..

I wonder if asia realms, where the RMAH has been banned, will evolve into a different game than the rest of us have to play.
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11/29/2012 07:36 PMPosted by Gunny
I've said it before. How many fantasy, sci-fi, or adventure type stories have you ever read where the hero spent his time shopping? What are you actually RPing here? A professional merchant? A shrewd barterer? Do you feel heroic when the real goal isn't to kill, but to make gold?


I think the "RPing" stops after you beat the game the first time, but that's just me.
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11/29/2012 07:36 PMPosted by Gunny
1) Either buy your gear from the RMAH to progress at a reasonable pace, or


Absolute nonsense . Just entitlement whining.

You don't need to purchase anything from anywhere to "progress" in this game. FACT.
You don't need to to uber geared to "progress" .

Tons of people are just doing just fine without purchasing anything. Everything in the GOLD AH is so bloody cheap.

And, what exactly are you trying to progress to?

11/29/2012 07:38 PMPosted by ODDBALL
I wonder if asia realms, where the RMAH has been banned, will evolve into a different game than the rest of us have to play.


No, because there are many 3rd party sites where people buy this sort of stuff for real world money. It makes absolutely zero difference.
Edited by Fizzywinks#1991 on 11/29/2012 7:42 PM PST
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Posts: 2,652
11/29/2012 06:59 PMPosted by skooo
I've been saying this for a long time but the RMAH is a positive for everyone involved. Blizz makes money, the people that can't dedicate a lot of time to the game can still get enjoyment out of it, and the players that play it hardcore can make their own money from it. No one comes out behind from the AH/RMAH, and if it really bothers you that much then simply don't use it. Of course, can you imagine how boring this game would be if they DID remove it? There would be nothing to do with all your loot. The ah acts as the end game for Diablo 3.


And since blizzard runs the RMAH, they designed their entire itemization system around it and made it next to impossible to find actual upgrades yourself. You're all but forced to use the AH if you ever want to clear inferno so sorry, for anyone who actually wanted to find their own gear themselves, the RMAH is not a positive.

For anyone who wants a ladder system with periodic resets, the RMAH is not a positive as it is the reason they will never implement one.

Of course, I probably won't be able to convince many of the RMAH defenders of my argument as almost all of them (probably all but can't be sure) use the RMAH and therefore will defend it at all costs.

Personally, I recognize that there will always be people who will spend real money to bypass time or effort requirements in video games and I certainly won't lose sleep over that fact. My only serious problem with the RMAH is that it's blizzard who runs it and how it has influenced the game itself in order to get people to utilize it.
Edited by Kudger#1192 on 11/29/2012 7:52 PM PST
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I wonder if asia realms, where the RMAH has been banned, will evolve into a different game than the rest of us have to play.


No, because there are many 3rd party sites where people buy this sort of stuff for real world money. It makes absolutely zero difference.


What you said makes no sense. What do third party sites have to do with my question? Blizzard designs the game around forcing RMAH sales. If there can be no RMAH sales they don't have to have the f'd up loot system and the dumb way the stats work. The game on asia servers will be free to develop differently.
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11/29/2012 07:50 PMPosted by Revanwood
And since blizzard runs the RMAH, they designed their entire itemization system around it


You see the situation for what it is, sir. There are not many who do.

The trouble with most people, is they can't see past their selfishness & greed to see the bigger picture.
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11/29/2012 07:55 PMPosted by ODDBALL
Blizzard designs the game around forcing RMAH sales. If there can be no RMAH sales they don't have to have the f'd up loot system and the dumb way the stats work. The game on asia servers will be free to develop differently.


That is your own conspiracy theory. The game is just as screwed up on the Asian servers, hell even more so because of the recent duping of the gems there. It was on a far bigger scale. Beyond that the game is still the same.

Nobody is forcing RMAH sales because most sane players don't bother needing it if they know how to go about farming. You don't need that uber 100m Manticore. Nobody really does. If someone wants to spend real money for a little more DPS, more power to him. Like it makes any sort of difference to anybody.
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That is your own conspiracy theory. The game is just as screwed up on the Asian servers, hell even more so because of the recent duping of the gems there. It was on a far bigger scale. Beyond that the game is still the same.

Nobody is forcing RMAH sales because most sane players don't bother needing it if they know how to go about farming. You don't need that uber 100m Manticore. Nobody really does. If someone wants to spend real money for a little more DPS, more power to him. Like it makes any sort of difference to anybody.


Ah man how naive can you get? You really believe blizzard would spend more than half of it's development cycle to shoehorn an RMAH into the game and then leave the game in a state where nobody would ever feel the need to use it? Wake up.
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11/29/2012 08:05 PMPosted by ODDBALL
Ah man how naive can you get? You really believe blizzard would spend more than half of it's development cycle to shoehorn an RMAH into the game and then leave the game in a state where nobody would ever feel the need to use it? Wake up.


They would have made for more profit from more complex item pool. Anybody can easily get good items now. There is no reason to use the RMAH anymore unless you have or want to sell the a BIS , and that is bad for Blizzard.

They did not do any of that however, because they figured that a more linear item progression similar to WoW would have been better. Anything more would have been far too much for today's generation of dumb players in their mind. Item were simplified not because of the RMAH or the even the gold AH but because they honestly thought that today's players would appreciate something simplistic.
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its ok that you buy gear to have fun, the thing that ticks people off is gear is all this game is about. base stats, talent selection, skill, everything else is worthless. as long as you can bust out the credit card, you're going to be able to conquer the toughest obstacles.

that, to me, is particularly lame. just because you pay for something shouldn't entitle you to victory and glory. that's like buying a trophy at a race. if you want, buy the best car, the best gear, the best equipment so that it can give you an EDGE in a race, but don't buy the trophy.

that's all the RMAH is. you're buying mp10. you aren't buying an edge that allows you a better CHANCE at being successful..
Edited by JHarv#1472 on 11/29/2012 8:23 PM PST
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Posts: 2,652
11/29/2012 08:10 PMPosted by Fizzywinks
Ah man how naive can you get? You really believe blizzard would spend more than half of it's development cycle to shoehorn an RMAH into the game and then leave the game in a state where nobody would ever feel the need to use it? Wake up.


They would have made for more profit from more complex item pool. Anybody can easily get good items now. There is no reason to use the RMAH anymore unless you have or want to sell the a BIS , and that is bad for Blizzard.

They did not do any of that however, because they figured that a more linear item progression similar to WoW would have been better. Anything more would have been far too much for today's generation of dumb players in their mind. Item were simplified not because of the RMAH or the even the gold AH but because they honestly thought that today's players would appreciate something simplistic.


How about you look at the history of this game? Starting out it was next to impossible to get through act 2 inferno without gear that only dropped in acts 3 and 4. People were corpse hopping into act 4 to break pots for hours on end and making fortunes because they held all the keys to end game.

The only reason they made better loot more readily available is because of the tremendous uproar it caused (the head of blizzard even had to write a letter to the playerbase to get them to calm down for pete's sake) and their rapidly declining player base. Since then, they've only continued to increase drop rates to entice people to either come back or continue playing. Better to have a smaller piece of a big pie than a large portion of crumbs.

And what do you mean "more complex item pool?" Itemization is hopelessly infected with useless abilities. Not only is the probability of getting an item with good attributes pretty low, but then you have to get lucky with the rolls on those attributes and hope they all roll high. It is next to impossible to get a good upgrade for yourself so you are all but forced into the AH.
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Archangel-1504/

That's OPs profile.
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I think most of you are missing the point - this isn't about the players, it's about the business of gaming :/

The days of spending only $50 on a game and receiving unlimited play, free servers and frequent updates with new or improved content are slowly becoming a thing of the past.

The creation of any video game is an extremely risky endeavour from a business perspective. Programmers are no longer designing incredible games in the garage. It is done by rather large business ventures with mega budgets and extended time lines. When companies/investors assume risk they rightly expect a return on that investment. We really should get used to monthly fees or voluntary micro transactions to keep the gaming industry a profitable ground for future great games.

Note: I am not stating this is a great game, but it is an example of things to come.
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@ OP I will have to respectfully disagree with you. I myself am a 29 year old who works full time. My working hours are not heavy, 9 hours per day. I am married but I do not have any children which is why I have a lot of time to play D3 compared to you.

You say in the OP ". how about us people who got families and wont prioritize games above anything else? we want a fair battle too". My question to you is why do you need a 'fair battle'? This is not a competitive game. You play either alone or cooperatively. You are not disadvantaged by having worse gear because you are not even fighting against anyone. There is no PVP.

Why can't you just play your 45 minutes a day and be happy with the gear you get? The whole point of the game is to gain satisfaction by progressing your character and finding gear. When you find gear, you feel progression, you get satisfaction. If you just pay your way to get the best gear then where is the satisfaction? I think you will find after playing the game a bit more that the real satisfaction is in finding loot and progressing rather than slaying monsters at a faster speed. Once you have the best loot there is nothing else to do in the game. I would argue you actually get LESS enjoyment out of the game rather than more if you spend real money.

If the game indeed turns into a competitive game then fundamentally I am even more against RMTAH. Competitive gaming is defined by the fact that the most talented and hard working competitors win. Not the person with the biggest bank account.

Should Bill Gates be able to pay millions of dollars and attach a motor to a bicycle then compete in the Olympics in a cycling event?

Like any other competitive activity, if you cannot put in the time you cannot compete at the top level. If I can put 8 hours a day into training maybe I can play in the NBA if I am talented enough. If I can only train 3 hours a week I might have to make do with a local league. That is the nature of competitive activities. If you prioritize other things in life that is your choice but don't expect to be able to compete at the top. I don't think this is unreasonable.

Interested to hear your thoughts.
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Even if RMAH is removed, not a single thing will change. Everyone who played D2 knows that. There are tons of third party goldsellers. So people will buy gold from them or trade with forum gold and will keep buying the items from the AH.

So whats even the point to remove the RMAH ?

/thread
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Also @ OP. This is off topic but I am just curious, how come you are only Paragon Level 13 but you have a massive 24k elite kills? The 24k elite kills suggests to me you play a lot more than the 45 minutes per day you have stated.

I play only on MP0 and have less elite kills than you but am Paragon Level 59. Surely a Hellfire ring doesn't make THAT much difference? Maybe you are not farming an efficient route and changing to Act 3 or Alkaiser runs would make a big difference?
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How about you look at the history of this game? Starting out it was next to impossible to get through act 2 inferno without gear that only dropped in acts 3 and 4. People were corpse hopping into act 4 to break pots for hours on end and making fortunes because they held all the keys to end game.

The only reason they made better loot more readily available is because of the tremendous uproar it caused (the head of blizzard even had to write a letter to the playerbase to get them to calm down for pete's sake) and their rapidly declining player base. Since then, they've only continued to increase drop rates to entice people to either come back or continue playing. Better to have a smaller piece of a big pie than a large portion of crumbs.

And what do you mean "more complex item pool?" Itemization is hopelessly infected with useless abilities. Not only is the probability of getting an item with good attributes pretty low, but then you have to get lucky with the rolls on those attributes and hope they all roll high. It is next to impossible to get a good upgrade for yourself so you are all but forced into the AH.


People were all trying to be badasses by asking for a more "challenging" gameplay because they did not want the "casuals" to get all the good stuff.

Yep,that turned out well. It was massive QQ from the fans from that fiasco with pre-nerf Inferno. It was not about items, it was just bad game design from a game director who had no experience in ARPGs. Nobody knew what they were doing. It was not some massive conspiracy to screw people with the RMAH. Blizzard ain't smart no more, but they are not that dumb.

The made the itemization similar to that of WoW, way too linear. Preferably for the sake of balance. And it would be easy as well to tweak in relation to character builds. It is not a complex system to understand for most people. They thought people would have appreciated that sort of itemization but no, we did not. Now the entire AH(gold and RMAH) are flooded with rubbish that will not sell. Blizzard is not gaining anything by this.

At least in Diablo 2, there were Ladder resets and hence a fresh start to the market(besides the duping and botting.) at least it was something. For Diablo 3, however, item value will continue to plummet as more people play and find stuff . In terms of profit from the RMAH, that is not exactly a good thing for Blizzard.
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its ok that you buy gear to have fun, the thing that ticks people off is gear is all this game is about. base stats, talent selection, skill, everything else is worthless. as long as you can bust out the credit card, you're going to be able to conquer the toughest obstacles.

that, to me, is particularly lame. just because you pay for something shouldn't entitle you to victory and glory. that's like buying a trophy at a race. if you want, buy the best car, the best gear, the best equipment so that it can give you an EDGE in a race, but don't buy the trophy.

that's all the RMAH is. you're buying mp10. you aren't buying an edge that allows you a better CHANCE at being successful..


The problem is people as asking the important question here.

What are you competing for in a COOP PvE game? Why does it concern you if someone is is geared through cash and killing more mobs than you? Does everything to have to be a competition? I truly do not understand why people stress the living !@#$ out of themselves with things like that.

There are so many other games out there that provide you people with that sort of competition. I don't understand why you people are tying to make a non-competitive game competitive and then ignoring the competitive games that were build ground up to be competitive.

Boggles my mind.
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