Diablo® III

Dualwield dead? Bring your ideas. Blizzard?

I see so many passionate Dual Wielders here, willing to sacrifice survivability and DPS for this style, but yet, it seems Blizzard does not care. This thread has been going for what? Months... and we are yet to see a blue response....
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I would LOVE to DW again but in it's current iteration, there is absolutely no incentive to DW.
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oops, wrong thread
Edited by zoid#1554 on 3/22/2013 9:25 AM PDT
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Bump for hope dual wielding will be worth doing outside f the cool factor again lol
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03/22/2013 06:12 AMPosted by MarcusSC2Br
I see so many passionate Dual Wielders here, willing to sacrifice survivability and DPS for this style, but yet, it seems Blizzard does not care. This thread has been going for what? Months... and we are yet to see a blue response....


such lies about the survivability :(, i always think/feel that im gaining (substantial) survivability, despite what my max hp says, by switching to dw. hello 1.8k loh and choking gas, bai gloom :D, now i can facetank through all the frost bombs.

i think what screwed dw single-handedly is dead man's legacy tho, why did blizzard put in a quiver with higher attack speed bonus than dw (i mean i can live with best quiver=dw passive), and still expect ppl to dw, is just something i havnt managed to understand. unless ofc, they dont expect us to dw...
Edited by nights#2463 on 4/3/2013 3:55 AM PDT
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I want a new nats slayer :[

Who else here wants an awesome proc for a new nats slayer weapon? Rain of Vengeance chance to proc anyone? :D

signature spell with our signature set weapon! now thats awesome and with that cold dmg it would slow all enemies on screen! Even though the weapon dps would be lower due to the cold dmg the utlity of the weapon would be so awesome and could synergize with the calamity marked for death proc.
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such lies about the survivability :(, .

recuperation from on hit and dps is not the same as a soak pool, certainly when we are talking about an avoidance class

1) recoup from LoH/leech is 0 without attacking

2) no skill comes close to perma 15% leech with 35% mitigation - ditching gloom will not free up a slot for significant eDPS gains (unless we are talking mp 1-4 and using punishment, but <meh> mp4 who cares)

3) having LoH and Leech on weapon is at the cost of a DPS stat (ias, ed%, dmg, crit, socket or dex), ShadowPower 15% VS gear 6% at the cost of dps stats? == see #2

04/03/2013 03:51 AMPosted by nights
what screwed dw single-handedly is dead man's legacy tho,

the DML made it a tough sell to chose DW over single wield,

it is far more than just a marginal 5% ias (this is marginal when you are over 50% on gear)

consider the....
+hatred
+%skill
crit% for better nightstalker than a DW
larger dex with vit
superior ias
Pure calamity DPS without diluting it

it wasn't till the weapon specific introduction of a 160-160 ruby that annihilated any possible chance for dual emeralds in a combined average of 1200 from two 1h to beat out a 1700 dps calamity with the perks of a stat stick
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I want a new nats slayer :[

Who else here wants an awesome proc for a new nats slayer weapon? Rain of Vengeance chance to proc anyone? :D

signature spell with our signature set weapon! now thats awesome and with that cold dmg it would slow all enemies on screen! Even though the weapon dps would be lower due to the cold dmg the utlity of the weapon would be so awesome and could synergize with the calamity marked for death proc.


I want a weapon that (1hand) that has 50% to make attack penetrates. Strafe will be so~ much better if those bullets can pass through the mobs.

If they could just double the cold-damage to the same scale as other elemental damage than that is all I ask... I have been asking for a while now... maybe 3 month now.....

But I don't want to pick up a new slayer...
Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 4/3/2013 8:46 PM PDT
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A mini nightstalker proc or hatred version while dual wielding would be a cool idea for dual wielding also.

I can see it now, chance to regen xx hatred/discipline on crit or both lol
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I switched from Calamity/Dawn to the Danneta's. I had a good DPS boost due to the high dext gain, even tho Danetta's can't roll sockets AND IAS, which is the main stat of my build.

To be on par with DML at least in IAS, Dual Wielding Hand Xbows should give double the IAS (30%) I think. Even then, we'd lose a lot of vit, crit chance and dext from the quiver.

I had a dream. A dream in which a blue from Blizzard at least aknowledged this issue.
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such lies about the survivability :(, .

recuperation from on hit and dps is not the same as a soak pool, certainly when we are talking about an avoidance class

1) recoup from LoH/leech is 0 without attacking

2) no skill comes close to perma 15% leech with 35% mitigation - ditching gloom will not free up a slot for significant eDPS gains (unless we are talking mp 1-4 and using punishment, but <meh> mp4 who cares)

3) having LoH and Leech on weapon is at the cost of a DPS stat (ias, ed%, dmg, crit, socket or dex), ShadowPower 15% VS gear 6% at the cost of dps stats? == see #2


on hit recuperation gives more room for errors, which helps even for the supposed avoidance class. espcially in a game where the hitbox of a slim woman feels more like that of a sumo wrestler .__.

1) why would u not attack when there are things around tho?;)- and is not like an extra hp from dml is a big help when u are walled into 3x desec, or feared into a couple arcane laser anyways.

2) in my spec, ditching gloom was a noticeable (aoe) dmg boost, when i run with 105k dps 2x rare xbow with choking gas + mortal enemy + echoing blast it felt the aoeing was just as quick if not faster than with 120k dps with "standard" gloom version of that spec. but i cant say it is a spec many would find fun. so there is an exception at least :)

3) i thought we are talking about survivability here? cuz i can just turn the statement around and say having an extra dps stat on weapon is at the cost of survival stats such as loh/ls/max disc. personally i think your comparison is a little biased towards gloom, the full comparison as i see it:

with gloom and legendary/set:
-higher dps
-35% DR
-15% ls

with SS and rare xbow
-lower dps
-6% ls or 1.9k loh
-CC break (if SS is used for pure defense)
-short duration stealth+dmg immune

not saying dw is on par with the other options btw, as i agree with what u say about dml and ruby in calamity. but in terms of just survivability, SS+loh/ls allows u to potentially take less dmg (with kiting), gets u out of CC's which leads into unhealable burst dmg, and maintains the combat healing provided by shadow power.
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i dual wield danettas and im having fun but yes if i switched to calamity and dml id be at 300k dps
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bump for hope blizzard chimes in
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04/05/2013 07:00 AMPosted by Pergalinski
i dual wield danettas and im having fun but yes if i switched to calamity and dml id be at 300k dps


you just need like +10 cc and get a better helm I think you will be there. Other than that I can only see a upgrade in your gloves, that you must craft...
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Dual wield has a 3 fold issue:
- Calamity not having a peer. Because the dps a calamity can get to is absurd, it makes any pairing with it a significant drop in dps
- DML being absurd. Giving this more attack speed than is possible to get while dual wielding makes absolutely no sense.
- Archery bonus. You get it with one hand crossbow, so the incentive to have two isn't there. If they did 10% crit per crossbow, it'd help.
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Mkay, so here's my idea for dual wielding. As many of you have observed, dual wielding leads to a significant loss in both DPS and survivability, as a good quiver (DML) provides high main stat, critical chance, attack speed increase, bonus damage to skills and increased resource pool. Anywhoo, outside of revamping x handbows, I thought a new passive was in order.

Death Wielder
When dual wielding
+10% movement speed (above cap)
+10% dodge chance
Weapon effects and procs +50% (does not include gems)

So obviously the crux is the last point.

Let's take a standard Dawn as an example:

+(98–255)–(229–598) Holy Damage
+36–40% Damage
+150–169 Dexterity
Increases Attack Speed by 8–9%
Each Hit Adds +449–657 Life
1.0–2.0% Chance to Stun on Hit
+1 Random Magic Properties

This is Dawn with the effect of Death Wielder in place

+(147-382) (343-897) Holy Damage
+54-60% damage
+225-253.5 Dexterity
Increase Attack Speed by 12-13%
1.5-3% chance to stun on hit

You would need to gear for Death Wielder, recovering survivability through IAS, Life steal or Life on hit, increased resource pool on one handers (See Danetta's as well as rare 1x hand bows), increased movement speed and dodge chance.

You could build DPS via builds supporting IAS over Critical damage, leveraging the +50% weapon effects/proc bonus to increase the effect of socketed rubies (+% damage and IAS). Maybe specialize a build based on a certain effect, like chance to freeze or stun with increased weapon effect procs.

Anyway, I'm not trying to make it OP, just trying to make it viable and different from Manticore/Hellion + DML.
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Dual wield has a 3 fold issue:
- Calamity not having a peer. Because the dps a calamity can get to is absurd, it makes any pairing with it a significant drop in dps
- DML being absurd. Giving this more attack speed than is possible to get while dual wielding makes absolutely no sense.
- Archery bonus. You get it with one hand crossbow, so the incentive to have two isn't there. If they did 10% crit per crossbow, it'd help.


I agree with you, except for the Archery bonus for XBows. This game is so CC/CD focused. Since Hand XBows have fast attack speed, I'd love for Archery to provide IAS for Hand XBow and further increase it's main characteristic.

Danneta's would need to be improved, it is a shame they cannot roll a socket and IAS at the same time.
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Mkay, so here's my idea for dual wielding. As many of you have observed, dual wielding leads to a significant loss in both DPS and survivability, as a good quiver (DML) provides high main stat, critical chance, attack speed increase, bonus damage to skills and increased resource pool. Anywhoo, outside of revamping x handbows, I thought a new passive was in order.

Death Wielder
When dual wielding
+10% movement speed (above cap)
+10% dodge chance
Weapon effects and procs +50% (does not include gems)

So obviously the crux is the last point.

Let's take a standard Dawn as an example:

+(98–255)–(229–598) Holy Damage
+36–40% Damage
+150–169 Dexterity
Increases Attack Speed by 8–9%
Each Hit Adds +449–657 Life
1.0–2.0% Chance to Stun on Hit
+1 Random Magic Properties

This is Dawn with the effect of Death Wielder in place

+(147-382) (343-897) Holy Damage
+54-60% damage
+225-253.5 Dexterity
Increase Attack Speed by 12-13%
1.5-3% chance to stun on hit

You would need to gear for Death Wielder, recovering survivability through IAS, Life steal or Life on hit, increased resource pool on one handers (See Danetta's as well as rare 1x hand bows), increased movement speed and dodge chance.

You could build DPS via builds supporting IAS over Critical damage, leveraging the +50% weapon effects/proc bonus to increase the effect of socketed rubies (+% damage and IAS). Maybe specialize a build based on a certain effect, like chance to freeze or stun with increased weapon effect procs.

Anyway, I'm not trying to make it OP, just trying to make it viable and different from Manticore/Hellion + DML.


I like this very much. Demon Hunter I think has the most USELESS Passives of any class (Thrill of the Hunt, Brooding, Hot Pursuit, etc) Kill one of those and add a Dual Wielding friendly passive.
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i have brought back to life the old broken dual wielding thread in PTR again. Last PTR we got nothing in terms of a response so here i am again this time around trying to get some buffs for the horrid state dual wielding is in.

Feel free to chime in fellas

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7708992216
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^ Done!
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