Diablo® III

WD help plz :D

Hi, i just lvld my third char to 60, a WD got him to around 50k dps.
But im struggling against MP2 elites, my ww has around the same dps and roflstopms mp2.

Can anyone suggest anything? maybe a build change? I know i could upgrade a bunch of my items, but i dont have gold right now.

Any help will be much appreciated.
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1) Go after a fourth Zunimassa piece. That 4 piece bonus, with 20 mana regen and 10 mana on kill is huge! It's easily the best bonus from the zuni set. One thing about the WD that's tough to get used to, after playing the other classes, is resource management. You want to try and maximize your mana up-time without resources such as mana on crit, etc.

2) Rain of Corpses is just garbage. It adds virtually no damage. Change it for something else. May I suggest a defensive ability?

3) You don't need acid rain and zombie bears, unless you're doing speed levelling runs, and not playing content. I suggest you get rid of one of them. I see from your pants and amulet that you went the LoH over LL route. Well, in that case, use Acid Cloud, which has a great proc ratio, and change Splinters for Rain of Toads, or any Poison Dart rune that's not Splinters or Flaming Dart (the rest have a proc ratio of 2). I personally prefer life leech builds which make use of zombie bears, rather than acid rain, but that's a personal preference. Actually, for high MP content, I would suggest Bears over Rain, and life leech over LoH. Even for 50k DPS, LL is way better than LoH with skills like Bears.

4) You do not need Pierce the Veil, unless you have some low mana build where you can keep it up easily, but you don't. Pierce the Veil may look nice on your character sheet, but it's actually lowering your average damage output over time, as it forces you into way more mana down time, especially with your mana-demanding build.

5) If you are dying a lot, you may want to consider Spirit Vessel. It's the best passive in the game, IMO. It allows me to be way more offensive than I would normally be because of my "free ticket".

I have more, but maybe you can consider the five I've listed.
Edited by Bottle#1907 on 11/28/2012 11:20 AM PST
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Hey Bottle,

Thanks a lot for your input. I will def make the changes you mentioned.

I went for the loh build when i had less than 50kdps, im hoping to get a weapon with LS soon.
I already have the zunis rings but i never really used it, i guess i will now.

Splinters was the skill that basically carried me through the levels and i never bothered to try new ones, but i will try toads now.

I will stick with acid rain for now until i get a LS weapon, then switch to bears.

:D
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LoH is a LOT cheaper. Acid rain however only works once every three seconds or so. The after effects of it DO NOT stack, and therefor neither does the LoH. With a reasonable amount of LoH you can easily sustain against an elite pack or 4 or so enemies.

Keep zombie bears AND acid cloud, cast acid cloud once at the beginning of a fight, and then whenever you need some health, otherwise bear spam.

Try jungle fortitude or bad medicine with that build for some more survival. RoT is a good choice, but enemies that teleport or kite are gonna give you problems. I might recomend spined dart just to get more bears off. Heck, take both.

Grab a gargantuan big stinker or zombie dogs (big stinker is for the bad medicine, otherwise grab a different one) to tank some hits for you intstead of grasp of the dead. Or keep grasp with unbreakable grasp on. It'll help you stay in bear range for the kiting enemies, or enemies you end up fearing with that EF you have.
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Blizzard Employee
Posts: 1,449
A great place for some focused Witch Doctor discussion is the Witch Doctor class forum. I'm going to go ahead and move your thread over there so that other knowledgeable Witch Doctors can chime in and help you along on your quest for greatness. :)
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11/28/2012 06:00 PMPosted by Vaeflare
so that other knowledgeable Witch Doctors can chime in and help you along on your quest for greatness. :)


Clearly someone is reading the WD forums.
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Hey!
So DPS isn't the only thing you should compare... Your EHP is much lower than your barbs EHP. That's why elites rip you off ;-)
What you need is more life, more resist all, and more armor! ...till then you have to choose a more defensive build: e. g. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#WRUdXT!aec!bacZYZ

Rain of frogs: low mana cost and procs your life on hit
AC: decent damage, procs your LoH - high mana cost, but every 3 seconds is enough
SW: no brainer, take the life regen rune or the three seconds rune... If mana is an issue, we have a rune for this, too ;-)
SH: nice damage AND resist all buff. Siphon for some health. Not sur you'll need it with your LoH... Could take slow rune for cc or damage rune for damage (crazy, huh^^)
Horrify: your second oh-sh!t-button (first is SW)... When your surrounded, it gets the enemies away and it buffs your armor. That's really cool!
Garry: he tanks and hits like a truck... Resummon him and he can transform into this big, fat monster again...

Passives
JF: damage reduction, simple as that. In coop you can choose bad medicine. Your allies will thank you ;-) even while playing alone it is considerable, because of more damage reduction. And RoF and AC trigger bad medicine... So essentially it is always on ;-)
SV: cd reduction for SW (awesome!) and SH... And it saves your !@# when your going to die!
BR: haven't run the numbers but BR should be more helpful for your mana. Plus it gives you free life regen and helps you to stay alive ;-)

When you find your self not dying anymore ( at least less ) you can change some of the spells for more offensive ones. If elites stay alive to long... You probably could swap out AC for bears... RoF should provide enough LoH.

For farming the Thing of the Deep mojo is really great! It boosts your PURadius and makes the passives Gruesome Feast and Grave Injustice work... Two huge buffs!

Enjoy! :-)

Edit: forgot to mention two things ^^
You got black thrones pants... Get the belt! It has easily better stats than yours and grants the set bonus + 100 vit!

If you decide to buy a thing of the deep and got some more EHP, your build could look like this:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#WfUdkT!TYX!bcZcZZ
RoF: stays for LoH
Bears: more damage
SW: still need it. Breaks cc, speeds up movement, saves !@#. Rune for mana = more bears
SH: stays, buffs damage
WoZ: nice damage for a cc spell, long cd, but well get to that later...
Garry: stays, still a nice guy ;-) there a several nice runes... You can just try a few

Passives:
GI / GF : as mentioned above... Good buffs! Buffs damage, resist all, provides mana and health... Great! But GI does even more: reduces cd when an enemy dies. So sv has much more up time and WoZ is much more viable ;-)
Third one depends... What is your problem,?! Still dying? SV is the way to go... Mana issues? BR, SA or maybe VQ is your friend... Want to reduces damage? BM or Jf can help! Want some dogs? Circle of life is fun! Swap out WoZ for Sacrifice - Pride and it even helps with mana a lot!

Another variation is using locust with devouring swarm. Works in areas with a high monster density... It spreads it provides a huge amount of mana with some trash mobs around and adds some damage (again, swap out WoZ)
Edited by Ic4RuS#2280 on 11/29/2012 1:12 AM PST
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I also have a quetion for you WD gurus. I came across this thread while searching for more info on how much life steal or loh is needed against reflect mob using zombie bears? I have only play WD on hardcore so I don't have a softcore toon to test this out myself so if you guys could point me into the right(safest) direction to spam bear on MP0 inferno I would really appreciate it.
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11/29/2012 02:38 AMPosted by Netadm1n
I also have a quetion for you WD gurus. I came across this thread while searching for more info on how much life steal or loh is needed against reflect mob using zombie bears? I have only play WD on hardcore so I don't have a softcore toon to test this out myself so if you guys could point me into the right(safest) direction to spam bear on MP0 inferno I would really appreciate it.


Play it safe and use spirit walk when casting bears only.
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get 4 pieces of Zunimassa's set (iLvl 63), yes you can get the cheapest of all and you'll be fine

get at least Blackthorne's iLvl 63 legs (for the LoH affix), believe me, LoH is amazing with Rain of Toads, your life will be 100% full in almost all situations... (I have 1000 LoH and 2.90% Life steal)

get the Manajuma's set (the knife and the mojo) for +130 bonus of the set + Life steal

you'll be dA KiNG....

dont know why people dont play with WD... most underrated class ever...
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With your EHP casting bears can blow you up pretty fast... Even though your DPS isn't that high. Best to deal with reflect is high EHP, some life regen and life steal... If your health drops to fast, SW or use your primary! It's hard to give you hard numbers, because it depends on to many factors.... Resist all, armor, health, regen, LoH, ll...
Even with 3 LL you can kill yourself pretty easy!
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The proc rate for LoH with bears is terrible. LS is the only option with bear builds, but as of right now I don't believe it is possible to have enough LS to counter Reflect Damage in the higher MPs. Just like JonkZ said, you will need to play it safe and use spirit walk to mitigate the damage you are doing to yourself.
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11/28/2012 10:28 PMPosted by Jimbob
so that other knowledgeable Witch Doctors can chime in and help you along on your quest for greatness. :)


Clearly someone is reading the WD forums.


I'll believe that when our class gets some buffs that ppl on these forums have been asking for for months.

@OP - here are some suggestions:

drop PtV
use wall of zombies (if you intend to keep using RoT)
replace echoing fury with one with lifesteal or loh, with RoT and AC, will work much better.
finish zuni set.

since i know you dont have much gold like you said, you can try to get something like the Xepharian amulat to use to get more mana until you complete the zuni set. try to find one that rolled cc OR cd, both will cost you too much so try to find one with LoH also. They should be pretty cheap as most ppl dont have a clue about that item.

also i would recommend getting the cheapest witching hour you can find.

back to build and gear:

drop hex for wall of zombies.
try Rush of Essence instead of PtV, and try using SB - well of souls instead of RoT, you might find this setup more dmg dealing than what you currently have. will also not prevent you from spamming grasp and wall as necessary. pair with blood ritual (or spiritual attunement if you get a xeparian amulat + stone of jordan. with your max mana zuni helm it will compliment that very well.

@Vaeflare - seriously, please buff cloud of bats radius, for the 20 millionth time, i beg you. and up the dmg on our DoT's (ahem, phantasm) and give me a reason to use Fetish Army.
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Hi, i just lvld my third char to 60, a WD got him to around 50k dps.
But im struggling against MP2 elites, my ww has around the same dps and roflstopms mp2.

Can anyone suggest anything? maybe a build change? I know i could upgrade a bunch of my items, but i dont have gold right now.

Any help will be much appreciated.


You can't have the same gear as a barb and expect to do as good. Witch Doctor's need to have life steal on a belt. Witch Doctor's need some survivability options to be on par with other classes.
Edited by Anagram8#1506 on 11/29/2012 7:54 AM PST
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Thanks a lot guys that was really useful info especially using SW + Bears. For whatever reason I didn't think of that and I normally use SS on my DH or OP crushing advance on my Barb to mitigate reflect damage. I guess I'll replace one of the passives with Spirit Vessel to help with the cooldown on SW and use it more often. I tried not to use SW at all unless I get hit and it drops my health below a comfortable level. Do you guys think it's safe for me to run GI, SV, and BM or JF instead of BM, JF, and BR? I blew all the gold I saved up on my way to 60 on all the highet possible resist gear I could get and won't be having enough for any Zunimasa's pieces at the moment, but I will definately be following your advice.

Last question, would it be better to get something like Warmonger with INT and crit damage or any 2H with 5%+ LS instead of the set knife and offhand? Since bear is good with LS and not so much with LoH I'm assuming LS isnt' that great either for Rain of Toads correct? If you guys could check my build and help tweak it for my current gear I'd really appreciated it. Just got to Inferno a couple days ago and I don't want to lose my third WD.

@OP sorry didn't mean to hijack your thread but I'd rather not make another thread asking for the same question.
Edited by Netadm1n#1171 on 11/29/2012 10:01 AM PST
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Hi, i just lvld my third char to 60, a WD got him to around 50k dps.
But im struggling against MP2 elites, my ww has around the same dps and roflstopms mp2.

Can anyone suggest anything? maybe a build change? I know i could upgrade a bunch of my items, but i dont have gold right now.

Any help will be much appreciated.


You can't have the same gear as a barb and expect to do as good. Witch Doctor's need to have life steal on a belt. Witch Doctor's need some survivability options to be on par with other classes.


Well, most barbs don't use a LL-belt either. And if WD stack vit, armor and resist, they have enough survivabilty... But WD can't expect to stack DPS into oblivion and have no trouble dealing with RD!
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Thanks a lot guys that was really useful info especially using SW + Bears. For whatever reason I didn't think of that and I normally use SS on my DH or OP crushing advance on my Barb to mitigate reflect damage. I guess I'll replace one of the passives with Spirit Vessel to help with the cooldown on SW and use it more often. I tried not to use SW at all unless I get hit and it drops my health below a comfortable level. Do you guys think it's safe for me to run GI, SV, and BM or JF instead of BM, JF, and BR? I blew all the gold I saved up on my way to 60 on all the highet possible resist gear I could get and won't be having enough for any Zunimasa's pieces at the moment, but I will definately be following your advice.

Last question, would it be better to get something like Warmonger with INT and crit damage or any 2H with 5%+ LS instead of the set knife and offhand? Since bear is good with LS and not so much with LoH I'm assuming LS isnt' that great either for Rain of Toads correct? If you guys could check my build and help tweak it for my current gear I'd really appreciated it. Just got to Inferno a couple days ago and I don't want to lose my third WD.

@OP sorry didn't mean to hijack your thread but I'd rather not make another thread asking for the same question.


Should be save enough... If it goes wrong, SV will save you. It's almost mandatory for HC.
If you find yourself having to much trouble staying alive, swap out GI for BM/JF...

Well, I'm a great fan of ceremonial knifes and mojos... But Two-Handers have some use. 5 LL won't probably save you either, but I'm not the right person here, because I never tried a TH.
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