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I get over 300 EHP from +1 AR and only 52 EHP from +1 armor. I had tried 4k armor with 700 AR but I have way way way more survivability with 800 AR and 3500 armor.
EHP w/ Dodge 393,094.06
EHP w/ Block 346,414.14
EHP w/ Dodge + Block 393,094.06
Melee EHP 346,414.14
Ranged EHP 346,414.14
Elite EHP 368,525.68
Physical EHP 361,122.57
Cold EHP 346,414.14
Fire EHP 346,414.14
Lightning EHP 346,414.14
Poison EHP 346,414.14
Arcane/Holy EHP 346,414.14
EHP Gains by Stat
+1 Armor 52.11
+1 Dexterity 111.55
+1 Intelligence 30.64
+1 Strength 52.11
+1 Vitality 339.33
+1 Resist All 306.43
+1% Life 2,706.36
+1% Block 0
+1% Melee Reduce 3,499.13
+1% Ranged Reduce 3,499.13
+1% Elite Reduce 3,722.48
Edited by bicen#1974 on 11/29/2012 8:56 AM PST
Uh, dude, your own character kinda proves OP's point.
Your wiz has 2 pieces of armor that don't have AR but have +armor instead, the chest piece and pants. If I replace the +armor rolls on those 2 pieces of gear with AR (I used 60 for the AR value to add so not even maxed even though the armor rolls on those pieces are fairly close to maxed), your EHP goes up.
+750 armor vs +150 AR with same near stats:
Tal Rasha: (totaling 275-300 stats from VIT/INT combo) 75 AR 416-420 armor
Tal Rasha: Mine, 295 stat combo) 802 armor (estimate average +395 armor) PLUS 50 single resist which adds EHP total factors but I won't include it because I won't need to to prove my point, however diabloprogress does include it.
Blackthornes pants mine: +185 more vitality +360 armor 762 armor
Cost: 16m (current market value 25-30M..since players are getting smarter and not being AR derps)
Blackthornes pants: 74 AR +165 more vitality 426 armor
From EHP calc:
Gear switched to AR pieces (+150 AR -750 armor): Cost: min/max 269M/290M more
EHP: 366,668.7 minimum (post dodge, pre elite/melee/ranged bonuses)
My gear back on:
Difference: 8,250 EHP more costing me ~270-300m more...for 8k more EHP.
EVEN IF the AR Blackthornes matched my vitality on my armor ones (ignoring that it would likely cost 10's of millions more) You'd still get:
EHP: 375,389.72 - 358418.42 = 16,971.3 EHP difference. ~300m for 52 Vitality points...a Perfect Star Gem swap out for nearly 300m?
Cost by VIT points: +1 VIT
+1 All Resist
TL;DR So you want me to spent 270-300M for basically the EHP of 26 Vitallity points? Daaamn, glad you don't run my account's gearing decisions sir.
/check /mate / thread
EDIT: Better choice for 270-300m? Get both. Till then do my way or waste hundreds of millions of gold to save half a second more of your life on the battle field IF that. Your choice.
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 11/30/2012 5:21 AM PST
I simply don't believe this whole 10:1 ratio.
Just stack up as much resist and armor as you can, without gimping your offense.
I don't think there's diminishing returns either, since the mitigation calculation is multiplicative (not additive).
The percentage of reduction in damage was linear from my own calculations. I don't pretend to be the know-it-all guy, but so far, it has worked out fine for me.
D3up.com says that I'm somewhere around 96% total damage reduction, which is far superior to the 70% and 84% damage mitigation from armor and resist that my profile shows respectively.
Just my two cents. I'm sure people will object right away, but I know I take a lot less damage and that's what counts.:)
Happy gaming to all!
Lots of armor is pretty nice i've got to say...Am considering getting (or trying to get) 500-1k more from rings, bracers and maybe ammy. Unfortunately, a bracers with 5 crit, 164 dex 70 AR and 200 or so armour (and some MF) i had my eye on was sniped when i tried to bin (for 20m or so). Would ideally like to get some more AR on 1-2 rings (and maybe ammy) if its not insanely expensive....
EDIT: I've also got a belt that gives me 9k more life (and about 500 armor but 15k less damage). good for tanky stuff, but not that great for damage =p
EDIT: It's possible tog et stuff pretty cheap... I got the helm for 4.5m. Other stuff (like a belt and pants that i don't have on) was a bit more expensive, (around 5-7m). Makes taking hits a lot easier. Used to have 3k armour. Started buying some armour and it really helps with the mitigating damage...
Edited by Raven#6677 on 11/30/2012 7:11 AM PST
Way to go on a tangent. Cost has nothing to do with the theorycrafting. You said in an earlier post:
Nope sorry not smoking just know how to gear wisely. Your 200 int 60 AR pieces eh? Where are those? Ooooh you don't have any. Cuz they're FRICKEN expensive right? But wait, how expensive are the low 1xx int + str + armor pieces? NOT that expensive right? Oh and they do BETTER for your mitigation?
You are just flat out wrong. Armor was cheaper, but it wasn't better. Sorry you went on a rant and didn't even bother to do the theorycrafting yourself.
Whether or not armor is undervalued or AR is overvalued in the AH is irrelevant to the actual numbers.
Edited by OhHellzNo#1945 on 11/30/2012 11:05 AM PST
No, but kind of. Armor isn't harder to get, the TL;DR is that AR is ALWAYS better. I also mentioned toward the bottom "It's better to compare piece by piece", which masterjay seems to be ignoring. I'm WELL aware that armor is much cheaper than AR, that's because it's worse.
In the opening post, I gave an example of armor/resistance that's FAR scewed toward AR, about where many of us are, and showed that 300 armor or so is only worth 45 AR. 45 AR is not that costly. 400 armor is around 60 AR, and this is deffinately getting comprable to AR, but MOST pieces can't roll that high for armor.
The MAIN thing, the BIGGEST point that I'm gonna have to just laugh at that Masterjay is using, is that I should be looking for strength on my WD gear. Strength is SO far and away worse than AR, it's laughable. Searching for more than 150 strength on ANY piece of gear is going to increase the cost a fair amount since Barb gear is always more expensive (everyone runs a barb). 150 Strength is worth about 22 AR. 22AR. Yeah, that's worth looking for on a piece. Don't get me wrong, strength isn't bad to have, I do consider it if it's free, but being 1.5 times better than int for mitigation isn't gonna make me look for it since it's 100% worse for damage and still **** for mitigation.
So, as I said before, the TL;DR is simple. "It's better to compare piece by piece." Multiply armor/strength by .15 (divide by 10, then add half of it to itself) and now compare the piece to AR on other pieces. If it's better in your price range with similar other stats, grab that armor/strength piece! If it's not, go for AR, who cares about balance?
I hope people are not holding on to the 10:1 ratio just because 10 armor = 1 resist.
What I mean by this is that mathematically, 10 armor = 1 all-res. Sure this gives the ratio of 10:1 to describe roughly what is the equivalent from one unit to the other.
That's really all there is to it.
Some player then thinks that he MUST maintain the 10:1 ratio because he sees the number, but in reality, you can just stack up as much armor and resist as you want and they will still be as effective and still boost you EHP and defense.
Anyway...we'll all find out in PvP what is most effective...
My ratio is around 5:1.
I dare say that my defense is not any less effective than someone who tries to maintain 10:1. No wasted armor or resist points anywhere.
It's just a general guideline for people who don't care about what actually makes a character good and just want a step by step guide. I'm continually amazed at how many people play RPGs with absolutely no intention of delving into actually developing their character (also known as the whole damn point of RPGs) and instead relying on some guide.
All I've gotta say is this: moving from 4000K armor to 5000K armor and maintaining 800 AR has been dramatic.
As far as which is better, the question is kinda foolish. Both stats top out on rolls and so there isn't unlimited flexibility to choose between them.
It's simple really, you can either spend hundreds of millions like I pointed out in my demonstration stubbornly getting AR on every piece of gear by some weird quota that no longer exists in the game (pre inferno nerf) unless you are farming Mp10 RIGHT NOW. Or you can save hundreds of millions and get armor + vit on that gear and essentially get the same EHP.
Your choice. I have 385k EHP, 60% CC and 2.85 aps all to run my build optimally all on gear costing me a hella lot less than others with the same EHP values cuz of their low armor / hps. I have no idea why players don't look at the total picture and just say **THIS** single peice of gear must have all the best stats, therefore I must spend 300M on it. OH I see some red, I can't get that - I can't possibly compensate that by getting another piece of gear that would raise that particular stat that's going down - I must have all green thus I must spend hundreds of millions on one piece of gear and limit my progression.
Like I said I am really glad some of you don't manage my upgrades. I'd be stuck on one piece a month..
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 12/7/2012 2:36 PM PST
I hope people are not holding on to the 10:1 ratio just because 10 armor = 1 resist.
No one high end is at 10:1 ratio, I'm not talking about getting 10:1 ratio here - I am just saying the closer you are the better. It's not that realistic to get 10:1 ratio with high end gearing. You'd have to have like 7k armor and 700 AR unbuffed, that's just not feasible.
I am talking about the ones that blindly just get AR and completely ignore armor. That is stupid, not the 10:1 thing. Then they complain 'oh man I got 3.5k armor but 900 AR, derp derp - armor is dumb, 10:1 dumb herrr'' Yah I have 3k intel and 100 STR'. when they could have done it a lot smarter.
They're doing what's easy then complaining about it and that my friend is stupid as trying to maintain 10:1 perfectly.
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 12/7/2012 2:43 PM PST
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