Diablo® III

Manajuma Knife vs Black Dam Weapon

So I purchased a black damage weapon and I'm thinking Manajuma might be better. I was looking at the damage range on the weapon and didn't like how low Manajuma rolled (mid to high 300s). I guess if I don't have high crit chance then the average damage i will be doing will be lower than my current weapon, however when i do crit it will outweigh my crits that i do with my current weapon since extra crit will be embeded in the manajuma. Well all this depends on what kind of Manajuma i get...

For those running a Manajuma could you let me know what the damage of your crits and non-crits are? Thanks.
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I crit from 500k-1mil. Most of them are around 700k though. As far as non-crits... I dont really pay much attention to the white numbers. I would guess somewhere around the 250-300k range.
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Black damage will be better only if you are using +elemental % items (IE zuni boots).

CK's do not have as high of a DPS range as other 1h weapons available.
IE Manaj's max dmg is 1044dps, (before any IAS on weapon), where as you can get other 1hs that can roll in the 1300+ DPS.

The only real reason people use Manaj's is because it has gauranteed rolls that we want.

Crit, Int, Life steal +% damage, and +poison (although we would prefer +poison to be black).

Its basically the same as skorn.
Skorn is no where near the best possible 2h in the game. A rare doomhammer can potantially roll something liek 2100 DPS, Life steal, 200% crit, socket 340 Int etc.

So basically, if your budget is unlimited and your patient, black one will be better. Bang for your buck, the manaj's probably will be better.
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I crit from 500k-1mil. Most of them are around 700k though. As far as non-crits... I dont really pay much attention to the white numbers. I would guess somewhere around the 250-300k range.


Are you sure its that high?

I use a 2h, have more sheet DPS, have higher +% Crit Damage, and have about 100 less int, and Only hit 1m when i have GF or SH stacks up.

Just saying... since Skorn ius going to have roughly 1.4x the base damage per hit due to weapon speed, 1m seems on the high end no?
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Are you sure its that high?

I use a 2h, have more sheet DPS, have higher +% Crit Damage, and have about 100 less int, and Only hit 1m when i have GF or SH stacks up.

Just saying... since Skorn ius going to have roughly 1.4x the base damage per hit due to weapon speed, 1m seems on the high end no?


that's why i said max. And that is buffed... so the 1m hits come from when GF/SH buffed and maxing out my dps.

That's why I said the majority of my crits fall between 600-700k.
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PS if you were to replace your weapon with mine... it looks like you would be getting a 3500 dps boost.
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sorry ofgorten but youre speaking bull. i have more base damage and slightly higher crit damage than you and the numbers you quoted are ridiculously exaggerated.

11/29/2012 06:19 AMPosted by ofgortens
That's why I said the majority of my crits fall between 600-700k.


right...who are you trying to impress?...
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u only have zuni boots for +% dmg, and you are 1 hand, so you won't lose much from going manajuma.

plus you have a high crit chance, 39+5+3=48% crit chance with scoundrel.

consider the extra int and crit dmg you will be getting, manajuma is probably better for you. and if you decide to use zuni vision and chicken for offhand, there is the bonus int.

unless you want to go inna+tal rasha later. then it might be a toss up.
Edited by Nerzaa#1863 on 11/29/2012 6:38 AM PST
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I usually crit from 200k to 800k with manajuma. I tried a skorn, but didint work very well with my current build.
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sorry ofgorten but youre speaking bull. i have more base damage and slightly higher crit damage than you and the numbers you quoted are ridiculously exaggerated.

11/29/2012 06:19 AMPosted by ofgortens
That's why I said the majority of my crits fall between 600-700k.

right...who are you trying to impress?...


You're so sweet. While I appreciate your rude behaviour... I was just stating the numbers that I recognize as I am running through a normal run. Do I record every number that flies up and conduct studies on my crits? Nope. Am I normally fully buffed with 5 SH running around? Yup. I was just pointing out what I see. Whether it's exaggerated or not I don't know cause I don't care.

I told him what switching over to my weapon would be doing a dps calculation. I think that helps more than people saying what they crit for.
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I 2nd max crits of 1 mil when fully buffed

I typically see bear crits at 500k more or less depending on my current skill setup

Once they fix Jinx, I'm pretty sure I would see a lot more 1 mil crits
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Its basically the same as skorn.
Skorn is no where near the best possible 2h in the game.


Skorn is an all black damage weapon.

So there is no drawback to using it as regards this discussion e.g. max damage from Zuni boots and Tal Rasha.
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sorry ofgorten but youre speaking bull. i have more base damage and slightly higher crit damage than you and the numbers you quoted are ridiculously exaggerated.

That's why I said the majority of my crits fall between 600-700k.


right...who are you trying to impress?...


Sorry man. I think Ofgortens is a bit more accurate. I've seen 1m crits too when fully buffed (depending on my build). 600k crit is also easy to achieve with bears. Paper sheet DPS doesn't say everything...
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Just for the sake of 1m crit....

http://i.imgur.com/HQ4w6.jpg

That's 1m crit for you with a different build and even without gruesome feast... I got this way back last month I think?? not really sure but the picture is old... (My paper sheet DPS was only around 90k).

:)
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Just for the sake of 1m crit....

http://i.imgur.com/HQ4w6.jpg

That's 1m crit for you with a different build and even without gruesome feast... I got this way back last month I think?? not really sure but the picture is old... (My paper sheet DPS was only around 90k).

:)


I personally wasnt saying that it wasnt possible, just that it seemed a bit high.

Myself, unbuffed I can just break the 1m mark with crits, but its maybe 1 in 10+ that does so which means its right on the upper range of my max.

However my point was i had almost 100% more crit Damage, use a 2 hander, have higher sheet dps, and have less IAS. The only stat I was lower was Int (About 100).

Of course sheet dps isnt everything, but when you do the breakdown of average dmg of a 1h vs 2h your going to see the 2h hit on average 40% harder (because its attacking 40% slower). Then you include the 100% crit Damage variance and it seems like a huge amount.

IE 100k hit with 365% crit D = 465k
100k Hit with 465% = 565k

But if a skorn does 40% more damage, the base would be 140k.
So 140k hit with 465% crit = 791k

791k/465k means that the skorn max hit is roughyl 1.7x larger.

Of course i jsut made up my numbers, and assumed that my skorn did exactly 40% more damage baseline per hit, so its not completely accurate.

Anyways, i was so happy last night when i used my new amulet with 272 Int and it pushed my base damage up enough to break 1m crits!
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@xarkar - yeah i noticed the manajuma has all of the stats that i could possibly need on a weapon minus maybe some mana regen.. which is the reason i'm leaning towards getting a manajuma

@ofgortens - thanks for the estimated boost and crit and non-crit dam info

@nerzaa - yeah i was thinkin of getting a CC tal rasha's.. i saw one that boosts my dps 11k but that had 9% crit chance haha.. and i am still having the hardest time choosing between lacuni and inna... i'm actually only using blackthorne's for the LOH because RD packs still give me problems... :(

@venomxbr - thanks for the info
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CK's do not have as high of a DPS range as other 1h weapons available.
IE Manaj's max dmg is 1044dps, (before any IAS on weapon), where as you can get other 1hs that can roll in the 1300+ DPS.


Is there any reason why CK is capped at only 1044? Is that the cap for all ceremonial knives or just Carving?

Yes, my old 1H sword has much higher base damage than CK but it has no CD.

A rare 1H that has 1100-1200 black damage with open socket and 2.7-3% LS is going to cost like over 200mil? And many don't even have +INT.
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11/29/2012 10:38 AMPosted by tigerclan
@nerzaa - yeah i was thinkin of getting a CC tal rasha's.. i saw one that boosts my dps 11k but that had 9% crit chance haha.. and i am still having the hardest time choosing between lacuni and inna... i'm actually only using blackthorne's for the LOH because RD packs still give me problems... :(


sry i wasn't being clear. i meant inna belt since it also adds % dmg. but since you already have witching hr, the inna belt consideration is irrelevant.

i'd pick black if i gear for tal rasha ammy and inna belt. otherwise, i'd either gear for manjuma+chicken or totd, high cc/cd rare ammy with witching.

but +% dmg benefit 2 hand the most, i wouldn't focus too much on it for 1 hand/mojo setup.
Edited by Nerzaa#1863 on 11/29/2012 11:21 AM PST
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Is there any reason why CK is capped at only 1044? Is that the cap for all ceremonial knives or just Carving?


A Perfectly rolled Veil Piercer could have the following Base stats
74-294 damage (1.4) APS. 257.6 DPS

A Perfectly Rolled Arch Axe can have
154-285 damage, 1.3 APS. 285.4 DPS

Perfect Demolisher
191-354, 1.2APS 327.0 DPS

Centurion Spear
214-320, 1.2 APS, 320.4 DPS

Conquest Sword
93-216, 1.4 APS, 216.3 DPS

Darkblade
70-209, 1.5APS, 209.3 DPS.

Without even going into all the possible Affixes, you can see that if all you care about is DPS, a Demolisher is essentially the only option. It has the highest possible DPS.

Considering all the items can roll the same affixes, the slower the weapon the higher the maximum damage output is.

If im not mistaken, a CK can roll +316min +411 Max

meaning
Min damage becomes 70+316 =386
Max Damage becomes 387+411=798.

+50% damage roll.
386*1.5=579
798*1.5=1197
(579+1197)/2= 888 Avg dmg per hit.
888 *1.4= 1243.2.

I could be off on my numbers but this would imply that

Also, looking at the manaj's knife, something is off if i apply my same math. Does the +50% damage variable only apply to the physical dmg on the knife? IE the armory says manaj can roll poison damage max of 286-667. But if you take 286 * 1.5 (the 50% dmg modifier) it puts the min poison damage above the weapons best possible min damage roll.
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I just confirmed what i thought above.

With Manajuma knife, the +50% damage, does not effect the poison damage on the weapon.

On Skorn however, because its black damage it does.

IE Min viel piercer dmg is 71-74 damage.

71*1.5+286 =392.5.
If you round up it equals the exact dmg of best possible Manajuma roll.

On the other hand if you take skorn,
507 base + 286 min damage =793*1.5=1189.5 which again equals best possible min damage of skorn.

DIfference is the 50% applies to the min/max on skorn but not on manaj.

So You can get a better rolled rare CK, but GL finding it =)
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