Diablo® III

Critical Mass - Ever So Slightly Rebalanced

Critical Hits have a chance to reduce the cooldown of your spells by 1 second. Every time this ability activates you lose 1% of your Life but gain up to 10 Arcane Power for each spell affected.

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Edit: Revision 1. Gain AP instead of lose it, and the gain is based on coefficients - so Liquify and WW get just over 1 AP while Magic Missile for example gets the full 10.

Clarification/Disclaimer: This nerf would no doubt be accompanied by several significant buffs to the Wizard class as a whole.

Further edit: Please have a brief browse through the existing discussion before commenting too heavily on the original post incase your question has already been addressed, thanks.

Some other ideas that have been floating around:

- Reduce cooldowns by a % instead of a static number
- Base the cooldown reduction amount on spell coefficients
- Some kind of stacking debuff when procing CM very frequently
- Increase max Crowd Control resistance on elites/bosses
- Somehow cap the amount of cooldown reduction CM can provide

Original post continues below.

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I don't usually create attention-grabbing threads (edit: changed the title, that's better) but i had this rather creative idea the other day while i was fairly baked and simply couldn't hold myself back from sharing it. Some thoughts:

- Because the punishment is garunteed with every proc, higher proc-rate spells (like WW) will be punished more than lower proc-rate spells (like Spectral Blades or Disintegrate), and thus someone incorporating CM into their 2h Forked Lightning build to help refresh Teleport will hardly be punished at all - they won't even notice a loss of 500 hp every now and then. On the other hand, draining 3-5k hp / sec to chain cast Frost Nova might be worth reconsidering. Speaking of which...

- Permafreeze (arguably the strongest part of any CM build) and constant Diamond Shards / Explosive Blast spam will still be possible, but it will hurt - a lot. So essentially EHP requirements multiply, and EHP being the main path to the higher damage ShockNadoShards setup means that the gear requirement for any CM-abusing build is going to be high enough that it won't render other (non-archon) builds completely obselete in comparison (as it arguably currently does).

- The higher proc-rate you have on CM, the faster you will hurt yourself immediately after casting a spell with a cooldown (which could potentially be dangerous), encouraging you to "under-compensate" instead of over-compensating on procs - ie. you want a fairly steady stream of just enough procs to refresh Frost Nova in about 2-4 seconds, at which point you cast it again, rather than just spamming it mindlessly. It is a different playstyle, and one that at first may seem straight up less powerful, but i would argue that dying nearly instantly whenever you pause your FN / DS spam brings a harsh reality check, and that feeling powerful means not relying on 1 or 2 spells alone.

- The more spells with cooldown you have on your bar, the more chance you have something on cooldown when CM procs, and the more likely you are going to be punished for procing CM. Thus you can run a setup with, say, chain casting Diamond Shards for good damage and protection - 16 procs taking 8k life (at 50k hp) easily countered by the 10.5k (modified by EHP) shield - but use another damage ability instead of Explosive Blast, such as Meteor, so you aren't completely destroying yourself with procs. Hello build diversity.

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Of course the exact numbers could be tweaked. I think the principle is just adding a small penalty that multiplies exponentially the more you abuse it. Of course, they could just change it to 0.5 or even 0.25 seconds off your cooldowns, but then the ability is even more useless for non-WW-spamming builds. This seems like a good overall balance. Plus, it's roleplay! Everyone knows reaching Critical Mass hurts just a little (in a good way). However, spam too hard and you may just blow yourself up!

Also, WW (the rune specifically, not the Energy Twister spell) coefficient should be 10% instead of 12.5%, and Archon beam damage should be reduced by about 10%. But, you know, baby steps!
Edited by Dragonfly#1941 on 12/3/2012 1:15 AM PST
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Why destroy the one build that can do mp10? Wizards will then be left with one choice, low MP archon runs.

Nah, the wizard just needs some buffs/redesign so that we can be more versitile.

Besides wizards already have one passive with negative effects. Glass Cannon.
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this is a terrible idea
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Why destroy the one build that can do mp10?


Hyperbole. I tanked MP10 Ubers last night without Frost Nova. Gimping yourself by 10% is not the same as destroying yourself, and several nerfs to WW have done very little to affect the popularity of the CM build - for a good reason.

Wizards will then be left with one choice, low MP archon runs. Nah, the wizard just needs some buffs/redesign so that we can be more versitile.


Yes, that too. Hence ~10% reduction to Archon beam damage.

Besides wizards already have one passive with negative effects. Glass Cannon.


I don't believe that is relevant :P
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11/29/2012 10:38 PMPosted by pabrt
this is a terrible idea


Care to elaborate?

CM is only powerful because you can "abuse" it - proc it very, very, very frequently. If you add a very minor negative side-effect to the ability, then that very minor negative side effect is only going to be substantially detrimental if you "abuse" it by procing it very, very, very frequently.

You yourself are using CM. Don't you ever wish you had other options?
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11/29/2012 10:39 PMPosted by Dragonfly
Why destroy the one build that can do mp10?


Hyperbole. I tanked MP10 Ubers last night without Frost Nova. Gimping yourself by 10% is not the same as destroying yourself, and several nerfs to WW have done very little to affect the popularity of the CM build - for a good reason.

Wizards will then be left with one choice, low MP archon runs. Nah, the wizard just needs some buffs/redesign so that we can be more versitile.


Yes, that too. Hence ~10% reduction to Archon beam damage.

Besides wizards already have one passive with negative effects. Glass Cannon.


I don't believe that is relevant :P


Too many punishing gameplay ideas. You should be in hardcore.
Edited by Camisto#1172 on 11/29/2012 10:43 PM PST
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Too many punishing gameplay ideas. You should be in hardcore.


I would if not for the disconnect paranoia D:

I appreciate your (and no doubt others) position, though. I'm sure such a change would coincide with the relevant buffs to wizards in general - say, for example, halve the cooldown of Teleport.
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The game has gotten that bad we have wizards trying to nerf us as well as Blizzard continually doing it.

How about fixing other skilss/passives. Never ever ask for nerfs - wow....
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@OP, abusing certain skills is not necessary the wrong way to play a game nor it is not fun.

Everyone have their fun.

Why not instead focus on what changes you wanted on D3 that sounds fun for you and give a thought in terms of not destroying other people way in having fun.

Let's have fun together.
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Well. Im glad you want to give wizards more diversity, but your work is ony about 20% complete. If you want the wizard to be nerfed this bad, then you should come up with nerfs for the rest of the classes as well, so you know we dont end up being completely useless and all.

I feel youre sentimate about CM/WW being way more powerful than the other builds. But this is not the way to handle it. cm/ww is in a good place, the other builds need buffs and tweaks.
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Well. Im glad you want to give wizards more diversity, but your work is ony about 20% complete. If you want the wizard to be nerfed this bad, then you should come up with nerfs for the rest of the classes as well, so you know we dont end up being completely useless and all.

I feel youre sentimate about CM/WW being way more powerful than the other builds. But this is not the way to handle it. cm/ww is in a good place, the other builds need buffs and tweaks.


11/29/2012 10:47 PMPosted by Aphraell
How about fixing other skilss/passives. Never ever ask for nerfs - wow....


Balance is the goal, you can't only buff and never nerf i'm afraid. In a perfect world nothing would ever be overpowered, but we are all human, and can only correct our prior mistakes and work towards avoiding them in the future.

I am sure there are many positive (buff) ideas floating around this forum. I chose to focus on what would no doubt be perceived as a nerf, because i believe it effects balance and build diversity to a large extent and thus needs to be addressed, and because i thought i had an idea worth sharing. As i said, i'm sure it would coincide with several buffs, but that is another discussion :)

@OP, abusing certain skills is not necessary the wrong way to play a game nor it is not fun.

Everyone have their fun.

Why not instead focus on what changes you wanted on D3 that sounds fun for you and give a thought in terms of not destroying other people way in having fun.

Let's have fun together.


A very valid point. No synergy at all would be boring. But in this case i feel there is too much. I've said it before - permafreezing everything makes for some very boring gameplay.

I posit that this is exactly the kind of change that i want and that sounds fun for me. I can understand why you might feel like this is "destroying other peoples fun", but once again i'm going to have to call hyperbole. In my opinion, balance and build diversity leads to the most overall fun for everyone. And again, such a change would no doubt coincide with several compensatory buffs.
Edited by Dragonfly#1941 on 11/29/2012 10:58 PM PST
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I dont understand.. so OP asking for nerfs because our class is boring is it?
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ya... sorry not everyone has gear worth hundreds of millions per piece...

you can kindly go !@#$ yourself sir
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Besides wizards already have one passive with negative effects. Glass Cannon.


This.

OP wants build diversity by nerfing spells. Wouldnt it be better if Blizz just buffed all Wiz spells to something godly making us mortals think carefully which godlike spell we should use instead of the other. BOOM, build diversity!
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Dragonfly, would you care to elaborate how you tanked MP 10 with no lifesteal, 1,1k loh, 2,5 aps? Is 800 resistance in combination with diamond skin and energy armor really enough to lower the damage taken enough to negate it with that loh?
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11/29/2012 11:55 PMPosted by SmurPoo
Besides wizards already have one passive with negative effects. Glass Cannon.

This.

OP wants build diversity by nerfing spells. Wouldnt it be better if Blizz just buffed all Wiz spells to something godly making us mortals think carefully which godlike spell we should use instead of the other. BOOM, build diversity!


Exactly, should i use WW to farm faster but with Overpower or Rend to increase dps or Impunity to protect my group? or should i spec deep into HotA for millions damage? or how about Weapon Throw, that spec is sick, but some specific equipment is hard to get... damn i'm confused! ok maybe for now i'll just tank MP10 with shield and Revenge.
Edited by Fatamorgana#6950 on 11/30/2012 12:15 AM PST
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This.

OP wants build diversity by nerfing spells. Wouldnt it be better if Blizz just buffed all Wiz spells to something godly making us mortals think carefully which godlike spell we should use instead of the other. BOOM, build diversity!


Exactly, should i use WW to farm faster but with Overpower or Rend to increase dps or Impunity to protect my group? or should i spec deep into HotA for millions damage? or how about Weapon Throw, that spec is sick, but some specific equipment is hard to get... damn i'm confused! ok maybe for now i'll just tank MP10 with shield and Revenge.


Ok, i understand the confusion here and perhaps my idea is a little harsh. Apparently not many people are into negative side effects on their spells, that's fair enough. I imagine if the developers were to read my idea, that would probably be the main cause for dismissing it.

To be fair, i do think balance is in a pretty decent place right now. For example, here's a pretty random build variant i posted the other day: http://youtu.be/EjuwVon2xNE - no Frost Nova, no Diamond Skin... worked just fine in MP8.

However, i do feel there are a couple of obvious imbalances. CM in particular is one i have a fair amount of experience with. Consider how the first elite pack in that video might have gone if i'd been spamming Frost Nova instead of taking Mirror Images. I'm not saying Mirror Images is somehow more fun, but wouldn't it be nice to have the option, without severely nerfing yourself? If you read through my entire post and the replies i've made, you would see that i don't just want to blindly "nerf wizards" because i think they're OP or something. I just feel like Critical Mass is just a tad too strong, and i'd like some other options. That doesn't mean i don't want buffs to compensate.

11/29/2012 11:44 PMPosted by Fatamorgana
I dont understand.. so OP asking for nerfs because our class is boring is it?


That's essentially it, yeah. Permafreezing everything is boring. Maybe i'm alone on that one, but that's how i feel about it. CM also means that i might as well spam Diamond Skin and Explosive Blast as well while i'm at it, because the damage is just rediculous and it makes you almost invincible. Everyone else is okay with that? I'd rather try something else.

ya... sorry not everyone has gear worth hundreds of millions per piece...

you can kindly go !@#$ yourself sir


Your opinion is noted... if you truly feel that CM is in fact balanced at your gear level, whatever that may be, then that is fair enough and should be taken into consideration. At my gear level, in my opinion, it is definitely far from balanced, and i wouldn't have bothered with suggestions if i didn't think that a few people might agree with them.

As i said, i can understand if people don't want negative repercussions with their spells. In that case, some other form of balance might be necessary, such as an internal cooldown; though i imagine the developers would like to avoid that as much as i would.

11/29/2012 11:55 PMPosted by Sumpfbub
Dragonfly, would you care to elaborate how you tanked MP 10 with no lifesteal, 1,1k loh, 2,5 aps? Is 800 resistance in combination with diamond skin and energy armor really enough to lower the damage taken enough to negate it with that loh?


Well lifesteal would be nice, but no, in three words: Crowd Control procs. Also, i don't use Energy Armor. That said, the armory hasn't updated yet, i purchased a new amulet just the other day that bumped my LoH up to 1800, which has made things a lot smoother. I have close to 600k EHP and 55k HP, and the LoH coefficient on WW is, as i mentioned in the OP, very very good! Feel free to hit me up in game if you want a demonstration :)
Edited by Dragonfly#1941 on 11/30/2012 1:45 AM PST
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@OP. There are already build diversity in wiz.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004037930

Why you focus on CM? Will you consider diversify to focus on let say.... Wave of Force? (No, I am not joking, I am serious, so are Blizzard (and hence a buff on Wave of Force in 1.0.5))
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@OP. There are already build diversity in wiz.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004037930

Why you focus on CM? Will you consider diversify to focus on let say.... Wave of Force? (No, I am not joking, I am serious, so are Blizzard (and hence a buff on Wave of Force in 1.0.5))


I agree! I read that thread just the other day, actually. I also posted about a Wave of Force build back in 1.0.4; combined with Slow Time you're pretty much immune to ranged attacks, which is kinda cool. It did of course involve CM, though..

I guess i focus on CM because i found the mechanic very fun when i was first gearing up, and so my gear has been suited quite well to it ever since. Lately i've been looking for alternatives, trying a few DPS builds, but i always come back to Critical Mass. It's really very good, compared to other options. I might even say the same thing about the APoC stat as well, though that is a different discussion.
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lol noob - end game in a arpg IS spamming powerful spells. D3 no different - all class can do it (with right gear) CM is our mechanism and archon which spams a 375% aoe beam.

if you don't like the build don't play it but save game design for the pros - u have no clue.
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