Diablo® III

Strafe Build - Possibilities

Hey guys I am currently experimenting with a strafe build hoping to eventually be doing MP8 Act 3 Runs Centered on the strafe ability of the DH. I have a build that I am currently developing and it would be set up as follows:

Mouse:
Left Click: Hungering Arrow - Spray of Teeth
Right Click: Strafe - Demolition

Action Slots:
Slot 1: Shadow Power - Gloom (Reflect Damage Defense/Life Regen)
Slot 2: Vault - Rattling Roll (I will explain below)
Slot 3: Preparation - Punishment (Instant Hatred Refill)
Slot 4: Sentry - Chain Of Torment (Damage Reduction/Discipline Generation)

Passive Skills:
Night Stalker - Used to generate Discipline
Archery - I use a hand crossbow so the extra 10% Crit Chance is nice for Disc Regen
Numbing Traps - 20% Damage reduction from Sentry

Battle Mechanics:
1: Gather a large group of white mobs
2: Vault into middle of the pack. (The rattling roll rune knocks back and stuns all enemies within 8 yards of you.)
3: Lay Chain of Torment Sentry down
4: Strafe to the outer edge of your mob so that the chain is still connected to the sentry.
5: Stay outside the mob while strafing in a circular manner with the sentry as the center point.
6: Use Preparation to maintain strafe
7: Use Shadow power as needed to survive.

Please Post your version of the Strafe build and maybe we can come up with our own version Mobile DH death dealers for high level Monster Power

Link to Skill Calculator:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aSgdVk!XeV!ccYZZb
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I've got a "speed strafe" build I've been playing with ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkNkGLS2dUM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDE8-wa4fRM

It's really only effective at MP0 right now, so it certainly isn't what you're looking for. I could do MP1 with some more damage (122k right now), but the whole point is the speed. It's so much fun :) My other build has much higher damage (and uses Strafe) but can't run around nearly as fast.

Mouse:
Left click: Hungering arrow - Spray of teeth. Used when I run out of hatred and there's no health globes nearby.
Right click: Shadow power - Shadow glide. Run fast! Also really helps with Reflect Damage. This is a big discipline eater.

Action slots:
Slot 1 - Caltrops, Jagged Spikes. Drop these as needed to keep enemies from running away too far, and makes hitting them w/ demolition much more successful.
Slot 2 - Vault, Trail of Cinders. Use this as the GTFO button. Also handy if I'm out of hatred but full on discipline, I can criss-cross the mob multiple times and it does reasonable damage.
Slot 3 - Companion, Bat. Gotta keep the hatred regenerating.
Slot 4 - Strafe, Demolition.

Passives:
Archery - +10% crit chance. Gotta have it.
Night Stalker - Restores discipline while firing at mobs.
Vengeance - More hatred, and restore hatred and discipline w/ health globes.

This build depends on having the right gear. You'll need:

1. High Crit Chance (I'm at 50.5%)
2. High Crit Damage (468%)
3. Life on Hit is good (725)
4. Lots of discipline! I'm currently at 49
5. Movement speed, 24% of course
6. Hatred regeneration! I have it on both my 1H xbows and my armor. With the bat companion you're looking at 10+ per second, or 11+ w/ Templar follower
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OP- sounds a very interesting build for high MPs... I might give that a try :-)

I use a similar build to Skizatch's but with Shuriken cloud instead of Vault and I used spiked traps - Echoing blast instead of Caltrops for the bosses.

160kDPS with 40k life, 4000 Armour and 300 AR.
I can farm MP3 very quickly but MP2 is even quicker and therefore slightly more efficient
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A variant on my build trades Bat Companion for Preparation - Punishment, has less reliance on hatred regeneration gear, but much more reliance on total discipline. This has much better survivability when cranking up Monster Power, but it's much much more difficult to juggle everything. You consume discipline while running to the next mob, then you spend hatred to kill all the things and build your discipline back up, then you hit preparation to restore hatred so you can keep killing. But the if you use vault or caltrops much you will very quickly lose the ability to use Preparation.

Even w/ a Natalya's Slayer and 59 Discipline, I find I'm running out of resources far too often :)
Edited by skizatch#1900 on 11/26/2012 11:56 PM PST
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Legacy Nats is much better at fueling Prep-punishment indefinitely, with enough disc left over for emergency vaults.

I use the following passives:
Vengeance: 150 hatred so you need to pop preparation less often
Perfectionist: reduced cost of prep means you can pop it sooner.
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skizatch
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Edited by skizatch#1900 on 11/26/12 11:56 PM (PST)
A variant on my build trades Bat Companion for Preparation - Punishment, has less reliance on hatred regeneration gear, but much more reliance on total discipline. This has much better survivability when cranking up Monster Power, but it's much much more difficult to juggle everything. You consume discipline while running to the next mob, then you spend hatred to kill all the things and build your discipline back up, then you hit preparation to restore hatred so you can keep killing. But the if you use vault or caltrops much you will very quickly lose the ability to use Preparation.

Even w/ a Natalya's Slayer and 59 Discipline, I find I'm running out of resources far too often :)


Try gettin gear with increased pickup radius. I run with 17 yards and gain hatred quickly due to Vengence triggering most of the time. Imo caltrops is not unnecessary as it is another discipline skill that eats into getting another Punishment-Hatred refill or popping Gloom. Using both bat and Prep - Punishment works well for me.
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Posts: 1,244
if you intend to "seriously" use strafe (by seriously, I mean for fun), here's one:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#lSgdhV!ehZ!aYYbZZ

- it works well with a DML + templar for even more hatred regen
- I use legacy nats, so no regen passives (+prep: punishment if strafe is on for 10+ seconds)

If you don't use legacy nats, you'd might want to
- replace ballistics with night stalker
- replace archery with vengeance
- replace rocket storm with stinging steel -or- demolition (NVM, I think rocket storm is actually better)

oh, you could also replace Rain of Vengeance with Fan of Knives, or maybe use both for burst damage. I know fan of knives for me brings an elite down quite a bit (maybe by 1/3-2/3 HP or something like that) in low MP levels, and kills a bigger mob instantly, dark cloud lasts longer but kills slower.

Maybe you could even squeeze in both? You could even drop bat if you are really careful how you spend your hatred/or have decent hatred regen gear

**EDIT: NVM, after playing with this more I think this one is a lot better and practical lol:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#eSglhT!ehb!cYcaZb
Edited by MysticaL#1298 on 12/1/2012 11:27 AM PST
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11/27/2012 01:09 AMPosted by cazwu
Try gettin gear with increased pickup radius. I run with 17 yards and gain hatred quickly due to Vengence triggering most of the time. Imo caltrops is not unnecessary as it is another discipline skill that eats into getting another Punishment-Hatred refill or popping Gloom. Using both bat and Prep - Punishment works well for me.

I was trying this exact build last night after I made my post ... swapped Caltrops for Bat, kept Prep and Shadow Gloom. I also upped my pickup radius to 14 yards (helm + boots w/ 7 each).

It's a tricky build ... I'm going to need to practice it more! I have to completely unlearn my instinct to press the key for Caltrops all the time, since I've been using that since I got it.
Edited by skizatch#1900 on 11/27/2012 10:27 AM PST
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I run mp0 speed strafing.
I like the addition of SC but have to give up vault for it.
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I am doing my variation of the Strife build... well, it's still a work in progress.

Strife with Rockets.

I use Sentry for higher MP lvls, but for lower I go with bat to replenish Hatred. Also, I'm always on a lookout for items with CC to Strife, like Mara's Kal.

I tried the Ballistics passive to increase the rocket dmg, but even tho it says 50% more dmg from rockets I did not notice a significant difference.

I find being inside the Sentry field risky.

I also have a question for people using this build. I personally would like to have never ending Hatred. I'm not there yet, but is seems I could do it with Calamity.
What I don't get is why is it so damn expensive? I mean the dps is much lower than from a Manti anyway. If you get a socket on Calamity then no Dex, if Dex then no Socket. You can have both and an extra socket on Manti. So despite the lower dps Calamity is still more expensive.

If you had a choice between a really good Manti and really good Calamity what would you choose for this build?

The hatred regen on Calamity might be outweighed by its faster AS.
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Since I use legacy nats, I thought it would be an interesting idea to use night bane instead of gloom for more hatred regen. It works really well in lower mp levels. Basic idea of the build is to use Night bane, Night stalker, bat companion, and punishment. Vengeance is optional, but I dont really use it With templar I can regen 12-13 hatred/second. For the strafe rune, I use shadow walk since movement speed is important to dodge attacks from mobs. But if you have more tanking ability and extra life on hit/ls you can use whichever rune you want.

Strategy:
1. Activate night bane once i start strafing. Depending on how much discipline I regen, you may be able to activate it again and still be able to use punishment.
2. Wait until hatred goes down to around 10-20%, then use punishment. Activate night bane right after using punishment.
3. Repeat step 2.
-The number of times you activate night bane before punishment is based on your judgment. You will most likely be using more hatred than gaining even with night bane on, but night stalker and vengeance aid in discipline regen especially if there are a lot of mobs around you.

If youre still having trouble keeping your discipline, Vengeance would probably solve that problem,but I personally dont like giving up steady aim or archery for it. My goal is to be able to 1 hit crit thrash mobs but I can barely do that in mp1. Using Devouring Arrow+Ball lightning/Multishot is still a lot faster and less restraining unlike strafe where the range is pretty short. It shoots single fire shot at a bunch of enemies instead of focusing on one enemy at a time, which is why I want to be able to 1 hit them. Overall it's a fun and stylish skill to use, but it isn't as efficient as the cookie-cutter builds most people use.
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11/27/2012 10:25 AMPosted by skizatch
Try gettin gear with increased pickup radius. I run with 17 yards and gain hatred quickly due to Vengence triggering most of the time. Imo caltrops is not unnecessary as it is another discipline skill that eats into getting another Punishment-Hatred refill or popping Gloom. Using both bat and Prep - Punishment works well for me.

I was trying this exact build last night after I made my post ... swapped Caltrops for Bat, kept Prep and Shadow Gloom. I also upped my pickup radius to 14 yards (helm + boots w/ 7 each).

It's a tricky build ... I'm going to need to practice it more! I have to completely unlearn my instinct to press the key for Caltrops all the time, since I've been using that since I got it.


The magic number for me was 30yds pickup radius. At 26 yards I still occasionally ran out but at 30 -- almost never run out of hatred. I sacrifice about 30k dps but it's worth it.
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I also have a question for people using this build. I personally would like to have never ending Hatred. I'm not there yet, but is seems I could do it with Calamity.
What I don't get is why is it so damn expensive? I mean the dps is much lower than from a Manti anyway. If you get a socket on Calamity then no Dex, if Dex then no Socket. You can have both and an extra socket on Manti. So despite the lower dps Calamity is still more expensive.

If you had a choice between a really good Manti and really good Calamity what would you choose for this build?

Dexterity isn't the only variable in the DPS equation.

One thing that people don't take into account on Calamity is the "% chance to target enemies with Marked for Death." You don't need to be using the Marked for Death skill to benefit from this, and it can really make a difference in elite battles since it adds 12% damage (from all players, I believe).

The DPS for 1H xbows seems low, but you can't really compare it to a 2H like the manticore because you're supposed to dual-wield. This gives you the opportunity for very, very high critical hit damage -- you can have up to 400% total just from your weapons (2x 100% built-in + socket). For the off-hand 1H xbow you have 2-3 degrees of freedom with your affixes, which you can fill up with hatred regen, max discipline, dex, vit, whatever. I choose to use Natalya's Slayer because I get +20 discipline, and the cold damage is actually quite useful (don't be fooled by the low DPS!).

As for a recommendation as to which is better, godly manticore vs. godly dual-wield ... it's really just a matter of preference. Manticore will deal more damage per hit, but less hits per second. It will drain hatred slower, which is good, but you'll also do fewer crits per second so that's lower discipline regeneration (Nightstalker), or lower procs for anything based on crit hits. However, dual wielding is a much faster game and I find it to be more fun. If you want "arcade mode", then go for dual wield :)

With dual-wielding you can't use a quiver, so you lose that opportunity for +10% crit chance on a gear and are essentially required to use Archery to get that +10% back. But that's really a "six of one, half dozen of the other" comparison, it's really not advantageous in either direction.
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I also have a question for people using this build. I personally would like to have never ending Hatred. I'm not there yet, but is seems I could do it with Calamity.
What I don't get is why is it so damn expensive? I mean the dps is much lower than from a Manti anyway. If you get a socket on Calamity then no Dex, if Dex then no Socket. You can have both and an extra socket on Manti. So despite the lower dps Calamity is still more expensive.

If you had a choice between a really good Manti and really good Calamity what would you choose for this build?

Dexterity isn't the only variable in the DPS equation.

One thing that people don't take into account on Calamity is the "% chance to target enemies with Marked for Death." You don't need to be using the Marked for Death skill to benefit from this, and it can really make a difference in elite battles since it adds 12% damage (from all players, I believe).

The DPS for 1H xbows seems low, but you can't really compare it to a 2H like the manticore because you're supposed to dual-wield. This gives you the opportunity for very, very high critical hit damage -- you can have up to 400% total just from your weapons (2x 100% built-in + socket). For the off-hand 1H xbow you have 2-3 degrees of freedom with your affixes, which you can fill up with hatred regen, max discipline, dex, vit, whatever. I choose to use Natalya's Slayer because I get +20 discipline, and the cold damage is actually quite useful (don't be fooled by the low DPS!).

As for a recommendation as to which is better, godly manticore vs. godly dual-wield ... it's really just a matter of preference. Manticore will deal more damage per hit, but less hits per second. It will drain hatred slower, which is good, but you'll also do fewer crits per second so that's lower discipline regeneration (Nightstalker), or lower procs for anything based on crit hits. However, dual wielding is a much faster game and I find it to be more fun. If you want "arcade mode", then go for dual wield :)

With dual-wielding you can't use a quiver, so you lose that opportunity for +10% crit chance on a gear and are essentially required to use Archery to get that +10% back. But that's really a "six of one, half dozen of the other" comparison, it's really not advantageous in either direction.

I see you point. Good stuff. I asked because I saw some people (even this thread I think) using Calamity with DML. I think you're the 1st person I noticed using a Strife build with dual-wield. My concern with dual-wield is running out of hatred before I kill everything on higher MP lvls due to lower dps.

EDIT: Holly molly :P I just tried Strife with grenades, when it hits it deals a lot more dmg than rockets. It doesn't always hit tho. I'm trying it with fan of knifes and loving it. Radius is not big, but a lot of fun all in all :D
Edited by Spokoman#1433 on 11/27/2012 1:40 PM PST
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Grenades is the biggest damage dealer for strafe.... but you are right... the do miss especially if you are being chased. The solution is to not run away... run at them and stay on top of them.
Note - doing this means steady aim is useless.... but it does bring shuriken cloud into play (lose 20% damage gain 34%)

Also.... if you want max duration Hatred... consider a Rare xbow (with socket and CD of course) without any added attack speed. Go for the highest damage with the lowest attack speed. Manticore always has extra attack speed so you equivalent DPS will drain more Hatred.
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if you intend to "seriously" use strafe (by seriously, I mean for fun), here's one:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#lSgdhV!ehZ!aYYbZZ

- it works well with a DML + templar for even more hatred regen
- I use legacy nats, so no regen passives (+prep: punishment if strafe is on for 10+ seconds)

If you don't use legacy nats, you'd might want to
- replace ballistics with night stalker
- replace archery with vengeance
- replace rocket storm with stinging steel -or- demolition

oh, you could also replace Rain of Vengeance with Fan of Knives, or maybe use both for burst damage. I know fan of knives for me brings an elite down quite a bit (maybe by 1/3-2/3 HP or something like that) in low MP levels, and kills a bigger mob instantly, dark cloud lasts longer but kills slower.

Maybe you could even squeeze in both? You could even drop bat if you are really careful how you spend your hatred/or have decent hatred regen gear


if you intend to "seriously" use strafe (by seriously, I mean for fun), here's one:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#lSgdhV!ehZ!aYYbZZ

- it works well with a DML + templar for even more hatred regen
- I use legacy nats, so no regen passives (+prep: punishment if strafe is on for 10+ seconds)

If you don't use legacy nats, you'd might want to
- replace ballistics with night stalker
- replace archery with vengeance
- replace rocket storm with stinging steel -or- demolition

oh, you could also replace Rain of Vengeance with Fan of Knives, or maybe use both for burst damage. I know fan of knives for me brings an elite down quite a bit (maybe by 1/3-2/3 HP or something like that) in low MP levels, and kills a bigger mob instantly, dark cloud lasts longer but kills slower.

Maybe you could even squeeze in both? You could even drop bat if you are really careful how you spend your hatred/or have decent hatred regen gear


Iirc I started to consider a Strafe build after watching the video of your DH strafing non-stop in the 1.05 PTR. That's a wicked setup and awesome video!

Could possibly try to accomodate one more Hatred skill in at the expense of Bat. I do find myself running of Hatred with the Manticore due to its faster attack speed compared to my previous harder hitting 1300+dps rare CB.

I also have a question for people using this build. I personally would like to have never ending Hatred. I'm not there yet, but is seems I could do it with Calamity.
What I don't get is why is it so damn expensive? I mean the dps is much lower than from a Manti anyway. If you get a socket on Calamity then no Dex, if Dex then no Socket. You can have both and an extra socket on Manti. So despite the lower dps Calamity is still more expensive.


I experimented with a 1200+dps (w 8% IAS) bow to compare the results with the CB. Sure the bow upped my attack speed but I found myself running of hatred too fast for my liking (even after using Punishment twice and Vengence triggering). So it's gonna be down to how well u juggle the Hatred management if ur aiming to do a 1h cb strafe build considering the 1h cb's even faster attack speed.
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[quote]I see you point. Good stuff. I asked because I saw some people (even this thread I think) using Calamity with DML. I think you're the 1st person I noticed using a Strife build with dual-wield. My concern with dual-wield is running out of hatred before I kill everything on higher MP lvls due to lower dps.

Run out of hatred? Use Preparation. Higher attack speed means you'll be building up Discipline that much faster via Nighstalker. Not to say that either is "better," but the utility of Nighstalker+Preparation is essentially unaffected by attack speed. Faster attack speed = faster hatred drain, but faster attack speed = more critical hits per second = faster discipline rebuild = Nightstalker usable sooner, so it mostly balances out. The primary variable here is critical hit chance, and it's also good to have hatred regeneration but it's not as necessary to max it out at 3 gear slots x 1.33 Hatred/sec. You also won't increase the stock 1 discipline/second by any other than legacy Nat's, which means your effective discipline recharge rate goes down with attack speed, but ... experiment! Go with whatever build is most fun.
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88 Gnome Warrior
0
Posts: 116
My profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Archetype-1377/hero/19573460

MP 1-3 Perma Strafe Build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#eSYdVh!bXe!cccbZZ

MP 4-5 build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#USkdYg!bVe!ccbbcY

I am very happy to see a good few of Demon Hunters using strafe builds. I recently went from a tank DH to stafe and loving it.

I literally dance my way through act 3 MP 1. I can get everything from seigebreaker on in about 20 easily without having to worry about dying or running out of either resource. In essence i can perma strafe in MP 1 and havent had much trouble in MP 3 when i tried it out no problems. The only time I have problems is when I get constantly jailed or fight the mobs that charge into you / the fat priest dudes who put shields on other mobs. It just takes me a bit longer to kill them is all and I can't just face tank them.

I attempted higher MP but it gets harder and harder to use a perma strafe build as you are not getting as many health orbs...so I made a quick makeshift build for higher MP acts. It works...but It seems almost silly to have Strafe in the build as it takes so long to get my hatred up. But it worked and i used it to do some key runs on act 1, it needs some work so any suggestions for higher monster level would be awesome.

So far I am really enjoying the build. I run with almost 3k Life on Hit and almost 60k health. So, I think of myself more using strafe as an increased mobility tank DH than anything else.

Well, just wanted to put some of my personal input and experience out there in this thread, hope it helps, especially to people who want an easy "faceroll through act 3 build".

I would like a few bits of input though, regarding 2her and dual wielding. Currently I am using danyettas, and I really like dual wielding as I can steriod my life on hit with 2 LoH weapons. But I saw a few posts about using Natalya's slayer, and I would really like to use one as well so i can finally get the 4 pc and boost my disc to a staggering 70.

But...the dps on Nayala's slayer is always SOOOOO low and has terrible stats. Looking at my gear, would it be really beneficial? Also, how does dual weild work for srafe? As I don't think the attacks alternate does it only use main hand damage? Mix both into an average? Or does it alternate and I'm just stupid?

Second note, how well are you guys using 2hers succeding in higher MP? Can you facetank mobs at least slightly? or are you still kind of squishy and have to be careful? Because I would like to try a manticore strafe build but I would lose almost 1.7 or more LoH which would decrease my tankiness by a lot, something I really like to have on my DH.

Sorry for my lifes story, hope to keep this thread alive! Thanks!
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11/27/2012 05:13 PMPosted by Tazerai
the fat priest dudes who put shields on other mobs


Since my first encounters with them I have always called them "Jay Wilsons". You must be talking about the Blood Clan Occulists.
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I'm starting to get the hang of the build I mentioned earlier, using the same core skills as Tazerai. In MP1/MP2 it's perma-strafe, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FlJJL_a23VM#t=120s

I was also doing some runs successfully in MP3, I just don't have videos for them. Here's a huge crazy elite battle with an illusionist fatso fire bombing party in MP2, although apparently the music that happened to come on is "annoying" (oh well :)) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVY_qsmOsxU

I think someone else had posted a similar build and called it "the Juggler". In an elite battle you can dance around the edges, and your hatred vs. discipline kind of bounces back and forth, but you never run out of hatred.

Tazerai, you may need more critical hit chance; I don't see you having much gear with it. Mine's at about 50%, for reference (I can't remember if it's 50.5% or 51.5%). That will really increase the rate of discipline regen via Nightstalker, and by the time your hatred runs out during a big elite fight you should have enough discipline to restore it all via Preparation.

Also, with respect to the Natalya's Slayer: for science, I tried out another 1H xbow that has much higher DPS (950), built-in crit damage (62%) and socket, hatred regen, and +10 max discipline. The idea was to see how a build w/ 59 discipline (w/ Nat's) would fare vs. higher DPS, only 49 discipline, and slightly higher hatred regen. The Nat's build definitely won -- that extra 10 discipline means the world. I can only imagine what 70 would enable :)

The cold damage on Nat's Slayer will slow enemies, which helps keep them from wiggling around and dodging demolition grenades. It also means you don't need another skill or affix that gives you slow/chill/whatever. On the plus side, these are relatively cheap since nobody seems to want them, which also means it's a fairly low-risk investment. Just search for one with 800+ dps, 11% attack speed, high dex (195+), and either a socket or 100% built-in crit damage. (the one that I have equipped in my profile, in other words)
Edited by skizatch#1900 on 11/28/2012 11:47 AM PST
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