Diablo® III

Spiritual Attunement, a COMMON mistake

If you have one passive slot and want to choose something for mana longevity ALWAYS go with blood ritual.

Mathematically, blood ritual will always outperform spiritual attunement in terms of mana longevity. If you don't believe me, run the numbers yourself.

A likely reason for so many WD mistakenly selecting SA and not BR is the hp cost. However, The hp cost for casting spells with blood ritual is trivial and and far below the amount of bonus life regeneration provided by the skill.

Now this is not to say that you should never use SA, but rather that you should never use SA unless you are also using BR.

TLDR: Blood ritual provides both more mana longevity AND more health longevity than spiritual attunement.
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This is incorrect much of it depends on your gearing.

In a controlled setting I can cast 20 bears in a row with SA.
w/BR I can cast 18.

In a non controlled setting having the larger pool gives me a lot more wiggle room with GI/GF and my ability to mana burst with a larger pool is much greater.

Your math must be off you need to calculate in the extra mana regen you get by using SA, and need to remember both GF, and GI give you a return based on your max mana. I get 136 mana per globe, 26 per death from GI/GF, and 14 per second vs if I used BR I would get 110, and 22. Doesn't seem like a lot but it all adds up especially since I'm using bears @ the reduced cost of 121 per atm (hopefully 118 soon)
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 11/26/2012 12:29 AM PST
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11/26/2012 12:28 AMPosted by Brahm
This is incorrect much of it depends on your gearing.


If you have 1.2 attacks/second and mana reduction to make your bears cost 120 mana/cast then you would only need 1400 or so mana to make SA beat out BR.

edit: The above value was rushed, please refer to the post below for the actual formula to get a better idea for when SA begins to break even with BR.
Edited by Stil#1181 on 11/26/2012 1:44 AM PST
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11/26/2012 12:31 AMPosted by Stil
This is incorrect much of it depends on your gearing.


If you have 1.2 attacks/second and mana reduction to make your bears cost 120 mana/cast then you would only need 1400 or so mana to make SA beat out BR.


I have 1.48 AS.
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11/26/2012 12:44 AMPosted by Brahm
I have 1.48 AS.


Ok so assuming 121 base zombie bear mana cost with your uber gear and 1.48 attack speed. BR would reduce your mana expenditure by:

.15 * 121 * 1.48 = 26.8 mana/second

with the base formula being

.15 * mana cost * attacks per second = Reduced mana expenditure

Spiritual attunement provides reduced mana expenditure equivalent to:

( 1.2 * base mana * .01 ) + ( .2 * base mana * .02 * kills per second ) +
( .2 * base mana * .1 * health globes per second )

However, the effects of GI and GF often fall into the category of W.A.W.G.
where W.A.W.G. stands for Wins Already Won Game. I say this because if you are killing things fast and getting health globes at a fast pace then you are likely not running out of mana with either BR or SA. The situations where mana longevity matters are vs elites/bosses/ubers where you might actually run out of mana. In these situations the effects of GI and GF are much much lower.

If we temporarily discount the effects of GI/GF, we can see that you would need a base mana pool of 2233 for SA to provide the same reduced mana expenditure per second as BR.

Now, when fighting a pack of elites or uber bosses there are occasional adds or health globe drops that would cause this value to decrease. If you wish you can plug in estimated values for kills/second and health globes/second and play around with the values.

For example, if we select values of 1 health globe every 5 seconds and 1 kill every second, values extremely high for an ubers fight, and reasonable for what you might encounter fighting an elite pack on an easy to moderate difficulty MP setting, You would still require a base mana pool of 1340 for SA to match the mana expenditure reduction of BR.
Edited by Stil#1181 on 11/26/2012 1:36 AM PST
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sooooooo is the blood thingy better or not?
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11/26/2012 01:28 AMPosted by Mozzer
sooooooo is the blood thingy better or not?


With your base mana and attacks per second BR is better and its not even close.
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someone should do comparison for SA vs VQ instead of SA vs BR

the question is BR+SA or BR+VQ...
BR have been very good for a long time...i don't think there is a reason to not use it if u are spamming bears forever...the 1% life is amazing when u have 50k life or so
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sooooooo is the blood thingy better or not?


With your base mana and attacks per second BR is better and its not even close.


not good with Mathcraft so I'm going to take your word on this.. but what passive do I ditch for BR?
Edited by Mozzer#6847 on 11/26/2012 1:46 AM PST
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11/26/2012 01:45 AMPosted by Mozzer
not good with Mathcraft so I'm going to take your word on this.. but what passive do I ditch for BR?


Well this post is mainly focused on choosing between SA and BR and you aren't using either. If you were to replace something for BR it would be vision quest.

With widowmakers and vision quest and only acid cloud as a mana dump I imagine your mana situation is pretty good as is.
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tried BR and removed vision quest from my passive I must say I haven't noticed a drop in mana regen. But does the life regen work with the pets if I use the Fierce loyalty passive?
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someone should do comparison for SA vs VQ instead of SA vs BR

the question is BR+SA or BR+VQ...
BR have been very good for a long time...i don't think there is a reason to not use it if u are spamming bears forever...the 1% life is amazing when u have 50k life or so


For upper MP levels... just run all 3 :) SA compliments VQ since it gives you 1% mana / sec which goes into the added 30% from VQ. So if you are running 1k mana. SA boosts you to 1200 max mana and gives you an additional 12 mana per second. That then gives an additional 3.6 mana/sec from VQ
Edited by ofgortens#1113 on 11/26/2012 3:49 AM PST
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You can BR all you want on an MP you can tank. Try running it at a challenging MP and hit a reflect pack or two. BR really hurts and will kill you.

And the extra life regen will not save you either. Turn on the life monitor options for your character and you can watch your regen and life loss. Regen only kicks in when some life is lost, so it is always ticking behind the loss.

Plus I think when you are hit it resets the regen ticks or something (if someone knows a test of the mechanics of regen feel free to share) because regen stops at the worst times in fights, so regen is very unreliable to save your butt in a pinch.

If you want mana regen then use the SA or VQ passives. If you want health regen pick the Templar follower.

If you want double the mana regen use SA and VQ.

BR IMHO is for those with a huge health pool and should be avoided by all others at challenging MP levels.
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You can BR all you want on an MP you can tank. Try running it at a challenging MP and hit a reflect pack or two. BR really hurts and will kill you.

And the extra life regen will not save you either. Turn on the life monitor options for your character and you can watch your regen and life loss. Regen only kicks in when some life is lost, so it is always ticking behind the loss.

Plus I think when you are hit it resets the regen ticks or something (if someone knows a test of the mechanics of regen feel free to share) because regen stops at the worst times in fights, so regen is very unreliable to save your butt in a pinch.

If you want mana regen then use the SA or VQ passives. If you want health regen pick the Templar follower.

If you want double the mana regen use SA and VQ.

BR IMHO is for those with a huge health pool and should be avoided by all others at challenging MP levels.


See this is a clear example of someone who has no idea what they are talking about. Please take your misinformation elsewhere. BR is NOT going to get you killed, it is going to help you live.

Worst possible case scenario: You are spamming bears with 3.0 attack speed at full 140 mana cost, BR is only going to cause you to spend 63 hp/second. This means you need 6300 hp for the life regen aspect of BR to outweigh the life spent on casting.

How many lvl 60 WD do you know who have less then 6300 hp?

Also life regen does not stop in combat. If you are missing 1 or more hp, your life regen is kicking in.
Edited by Stil#1181 on 11/26/2012 4:45 AM PST
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11/26/2012 02:51 AMPosted by Mozzer
tried BR and removed vision quest from my passive I must say I haven't noticed a drop in mana regen. But does the life regen work with the pets if I use the Fierce loyalty passive?


Yes the life regen should work with fierce loyalty. However, the opportunity cost of running BR and fierce loyalty is huge as it means you are giving up GI or GF
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See this is a clear example of someone who has no idea what they are talking about. Please take your misinformation elsewhere. BR is NOT going to get you killed, it is going to help you live.

Worst possible case scenario: You are spamming bears with 3.0 attack speed at full 140 mana cost, BR is only going to cause you to spend 63 hp/second. This means you need 6300 hp for the life regen aspect of BR to outweigh the life spent on casting.

How many lvl 60 WD do you know who have less then 6300 hp?

Also life regen does not stop in combat. If you are missing 1 or more hp, your life regen is kicking in.


Yes I play the game with my eyes closed and listen to people who use spreadsheets instead of play the game. If you don't understand what I wrote then you shouldn't comment on it.

I have a 45,000 life pool. I hit reflect packs in MP5 and above and they hurt like hell with BR on.

Obviously you are some speed run junkie becasue I see you are using GI. GI is crap on higher MP. So exactly what don't you get? BR + GI is double crap on higher MP.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 11/26/2012 5:01 AM PST
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Yes I play the game with my eyes closed and listen to people who use spreadsheets instead of play the game. If you don't understand what I wrote then you shouldn't comment on it.

I have a 45,000 life pool. I hit reflect packs in MP5 and above and they hurt like hell with BR on.

Obviously you are some speed run junkie becasue I see you are using GI. GI is crap on higher MP. So exactly what don't you get? BR + GI is double crap on higher MP.


I understand exactly what you wrote, its just wrong.

With 45000 life BR is going to give you 450 life regen per second. In order for BR to reduce your survivability with 45000 life you need to be spending more than 3000 mana per second. Please do tell how you manage to spend this much mana.

And yes I use GI because I am in a farming build, not an ubers build. The MP where you gain the most experience and loot is most certainly an MP where grave injustice is still effective.
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So you are only talking about lower MPs which is MP4 and under.

You are not using BR at a level where it begins to hurt you so it works.

MP5 and higher BR will really dig at you because reflect gets progressively worse as the monsters gain HP because they take longer to kill. Taking longer to kill means your health pool dries up and that's when you die.

BR is a skill to use if everything is going smooth for you and you are in a farming mode. The same can be said about GI. And right now you don't feel pain because GI is helping to fuel BR.

Don't take my word for it. Take your skill set into MP6 and see how that works for you on reflect packs and see if that changes your opinion.

I pretty much live in MP6 right now, so there is no reason you shouldn't be able to run there with your HP and DPS because it is similar to mine.
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So you are only talking about lower MPs which is MP4 and under.

You are not using BR at a level where it begins to hurt you so it works.

MP5 and higher BR will really dig at you because reflect gets progressively worse as the monsters gain HP because they take longer to kill. Taking longer to kill means your health pool dries up and that's when you die.

BR is a skill to use if everything is going smooth for you and you are in a farming mode. The same can be said about GI. And right now you don't feel pain because GI is helping to fuel BR.

Don't take my word for it. Take your skill set into MP6 and see how that works for you on reflect packs and see if that changes your opinion.

I pretty much live in MP6 right now, so there is no reason you shouldn't be able to run there with your HP and DPS because it is similar to mine.


Ok please read what blood ritual does before you post again in this thread. 15% of the mana cost of spells you cast will be taken from your hp pool instead of your mana pool. You also gain 1% of your total life as life per second.

Nothing changes about this skill from mp 0 to mp 10. There is never a point where 15% of your mana expenditure per second is going to be higher than 1% of your total life.

The reason I don't feel the pain is NOT because I generally farm on mp 0-4. It is because I have over 50k life and even spamming bears with my approximately 1.5 attack speed I am only spending ~210 mana per second. 500 is a higher number than 31.5 whether I am on mp 0, mp 6, or mp 10.
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Sorry but the math doesn't work the way you think at least in my experience.

It isn't going to cost you anything to run around MP6 a while.

Go do it and you can report in this thread how wrong I am to everyone.
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