If you have one passive slot and want to choose something for mana longevity ALWAYS go with blood ritual.
Mathematically, blood ritual will always outperform spiritual attunement in terms of mana longevity. If you don't believe me, run the numbers yourself.
A likely reason for so many WD mistakenly selecting SA and not BR is the hp cost. However, The hp cost for casting spells with blood ritual is trivial and and far below the amount of bonus life regeneration provided by the skill.
Now this is not to say that you should never use SA, but rather that you should never use SA unless you are also using BR.
TLDR: Blood ritual provides both more mana longevity AND more health longevity than spiritual attunement.
Isn't this the start of the thread you wrote? Always use BR. Never use SA without BR. Run the numbers yourself.....
Someone shows you the math and you want to say I didn't bring it up?
Did someone steal your account?
I'm going to put up a post about life regen mechanics later today and ask if others have observed the stoppage of regen. Feel free to jump in if you want.
11/26/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Ic4RuSYeah, ofc I choose a passive for mana regen ^^ but as stated, in my case SA is a bit superior... Still going with BR due to its life regen. Got my point!? :-)
This is incorrect much of it depends on your gearing.
In a controlled setting I can cast 20 bears in a row with SA.
w/BR I can cast 18.
I have 1.48 AS.
Ok so assuming 121 base zombie bear mana cost with your uber gear and 1.48 attack speed. BR would reduce your mana expenditure by:
.15 * 121 * 1.48 = 26.8 mana/second
with the base formula being
.15 * mana cost * attacks per second = Reduced mana expenditure
Spiritual attunement provides reduced mana expenditure equivalent to:
( 1.2 * base mana * .01 ) + ( .2 * base mana * .02 * kills per second ) +
( .2 * base mana * .1 * health globes per second )
However, the effects of GI and GF often fall into the category of W.A.W.G.
where W.A.W.G. stands for Wins Already Won Game. I say this because if you are killing things fast and getting health globes at a fast pace then you are likely not running out of mana with either BR or SA. The situations where mana longevity matters are vs elites/bosses/ubers where you might actually run out of mana. In these situations the effects of GI and GF are much much lower.
If we temporarily discount the effects of GI/GF, we can see that you would need a base mana pool of 2233 for SA to provide the same reduced mana expenditure per second as BR.
Now, when fighting a pack of elites or uber bosses there are occasional adds or health globe drops that would cause this value to decrease. If you wish you can plug in estimated values for kills/second and health globes/second and play around with the values.
For example, if we select values of 1 health globe every 5 seconds and 1 kill every second, values extremely high for an ubers fight, and reasonable for what you might encounter fighting an elite pack on an easy to moderate difficulty MP setting, You would still require a base mana pool of 1340 for SA to match the mana expenditure reduction of BR.
11/26/2012 01:28 AMPosted by Mozzersooooooo is the blood thingy better or not?
BR is great unless you have MAX Mana items then SA is the better choice.
sooooooo is the blood thingy better or not?
If your attack speed is faster than 1.00s, then BR is almost always better than SA AND you get 1% life regen for free.
BR is definitely the #1 choice of mana tactic. Now if you need one more, you'll need to look at your max. mana and mana regen. Higher max mana benefits SA more and higher regen benefits VQ more (except VQ requires you to use a primary once every 6s).
If you use Spirit, then Rush of Essence is the best mana tactic.
11/26/2012 12:08 PMPosted by ofgortensBR is great unless you have MAX Mana items then SA is the better choice.
Don't agree to this since I have 2-3 max mana items (if I equip my zombie charger SoJ) but I do agree that it really depends on each person's build, attack speed, max mana, and mana regen to determine what is the best scenario for regenerating mana.
For my build with high attack speed (1.74), if I were to just use BR I can spam bears for 7.6 seconds. If I were to just use SA, I can spam bears for 7.72 seconds. They are pretty even to me... except BR gives me 600 life per second as well which is the reason I opt for BR over SA.
Every case is different.
No, it depends on your base pool size. @ 1.48 I get 2 more bears with SA (standing in town)
@ 1.78 it levels out in town giving me 18 with each. With active usage of GI/GF the additional mana from SA (when you have increased pool size) is even greater and tips the scale for SA, also in active game play you aren't always constantly dumping your full mana pool (when you do it's nice to have a larger pool though) so the additional mana regen you get from SA helps you recover mana faster. BR doesn't give you ANY mana regen it only discounts the cost.
11/26/2012 12:09 PMPosted by BrahmFor me the 350-600 life per second means nothing, but I have a lifesteal weapon and get plenty back from GI.. Others may disagree for there spec.
It is a bit unfair for BR to test casting in the town because SA will always win having bigger pool to start.
For me the 350-600 life per second means nothing, but I have a lifesteal weapon and get plenty back from GI.. Others may disagree for there spec.
Yeah sorry but when I am talking about mana regen and sustainability I am not talking about GI/GF builds at all. If I am using GI which I do up through MP6... mana is really not the problem since things die and elites die within a couple seconds (before OOM anyways). Whether you opt for BR or SA in that stage is irrelevant IMO.
Where you need to look at the differences comes in MP8+ where you are not running with GI due to high hp levels of monsters. While I agree the life per second is irrelevant when you are fighting trash mobs (life steal can sustain your health), it does come into play when you are fighting RD elites and are having to kite a little bit either waiting for SW to come back or hitting one elite at a time, etc.
That being said... for MP8+ I usually use all 3 mana regen passives anyways (BR/VQ/SA) so I get all the benefits for high bear sustainability.
Now the real question is why not using both BR/SA? If you even consider either of them, chances are having BOTH is the best solution.
If you are running a Primary spamming build, you may even need either.
If you are running Bear/Acid Cloud or even Firebats spamming, both is better and one is not enough without high mana regen items. It's not like PtV is "efficient" for secondary spells in most cases. I would rather take BR and SA to keep my mana higher to spam Bear than using PtV that depletes me so fast.
VQ is the real "loser" IMO. Having one requirement.
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