Diablo® III

ShockNadoShards (SNS), a CM/WW build [guide]

Ha yea thats probably close @4%. I guess it comes down to if your willing to sacrifice so much defense, to gain 4% damage.

@OP good to see your guide in Wiz compendium, some good work done there. Surprised it took someone so long to actually write a proper guide.
How sure are we that Diamond Shards only contributes 4% damage? If we tease apart the numbers HolyFork generated, Diamond Shards should be contributing a pretty hefty ~10% of the SNS damage while Shocking Aspect contributes 33% damage.
Well testing such as HolyFork provided is alot more substantial and probably closer to the mark than 4%. I'm too lazy to test and use it all the time anyway.
More testing required
Edited by Aphraell#1269 on 11/27/2012 4:09 PM PST
Where is Shand when we need him. This discussion may very well lead to a list of DPS benchmarks.
Could it be due to critical damage stacking not being nearly as efficient? My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that Diamond Shards doesn't crit well and Shocking Aspect doesn't crit at all. So the more crit damage you have, your multiplier would presumably have to go down.

Thus, it would seem a good place to look would be the impact of crit damage. I think it would be important to know, since high-end CM/WW wizards have high DPS that's largely supplemented by lots of crit damage (like many of you in this thread). If there's pretty large diminishing returns it'd be useful to know.
Edited by TekkZero#1963 on 11/27/2012 4:21 PM PST
My own testing indicated about 4-5% of your damage done is from DS in full SNS build, single target. My simulator also gives the same results. For 4 targets it goes up to about 15%. If you don't use SNS and use energy armor, the relative contribution is increased because your effective dps goes down quite a bit (30-40%).

Quick math:
If you cast 1 DS every 2s against a single target, with 3.0 APS that's 210% weapon damage, or 0.7x char sheet dps every 2s. That's 0.35x char sheet dps per second, meaning it adds 0.35 to your effective multiplier. If your multiplier is 7 in full SNS, that's 5% of your dps coming from DS.
Could it be due to critical damage stacking not being nearly as efficient? My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that Diamond Shards doesn't crit well and Shocking Aspect doesn't crit at all. So the more crit damage you have, your multiplier would presumably have to go down.

Thus, it would seem a good place to look would be the impact of crit damage. I think it would be important to know, since high-end CM/WW wizards have high DPS that's largely supplemented by lots of crit damage (like many of you in this thread). If there's pretty large diminishing returns it'd be useful to know.


Both DS and SA crit just like all the other skills used in the build. The only differences are that SA crits don't proc CM but DS does. Crit damage should not impact your effective dps multiplier, aside from changes due to fight length.
Ah cool, so you can crit without being able to proc. Weird, but interesting! :)
Edited by TekkZero#1963 on 11/27/2012 4:29 PM PST
It's all about the proc coefficient. It just happens the Storm Armor and SA coefficients are 0, so you gain 0 LoH and APoC when you crit, and CM has a 0% chance of proccing on crits from those skills. The actual damage from crits is the same as other skills, as far as I know. I think only hydra crits are different, since the last I looked they only crit as if they have 50% crit damage, but that's a little off topic.
@Loroese: So then why the big discrepancy with HolyForks numbers? His contribution is still nearly double your estimate and, thus, he's presumably then casting DS every second (6.86x multipler with SNS vs 6.18x multipler for SNS with Crystal Shell). The descrepancy seems to be not trivial, especially as the inter-trial variability of the trials HolyFork did repeat was between 1-3s (with ~90s trial times). I'm kinda inclined to believe three seperate players independently saying its 4-5%.

EDIT: Thanks for the crit vs. proc info! :) I was thinking Hydra was more general, in that if it couldn't proc, it also wouldn't crit.
Edited by TekkZero#1963 on 11/27/2012 4:41 PM PST
@Loroese: So then why the big discrepancy with HolyForks numbers? His contribution is still nearly double your estimate and, thus, he's presumably then casting DS every second (6.86x multipler with SNS vs 6.18x multipler for SNS with Crystal Shell). The descrepancy seems to be not trivial, especially as the inter-trial variability of the trials HolyFork did repeat was between 1-3s.

EDIT: Thanks for the crit vs. proc info! :) I was thinking Hydra was more general, in that if it couldn't proc, it also wouldn't crit.


There's a bit of a difference between DS making up 5% of your dps and adding it to gain 10%. I was mostly looking at it from the first case. The second case is more accurate because it also accounts for loss of dps due to the extra CM procs from DS, so the first is an approximation and the second is closer to reality. Also, my 5% is from my stats, which are a little below what most people run (2.69 APS, 50%CC for most of my trial runs) so it's going to be a bit higher for most people.

For example, if I run 3.01 APS, 55% CC, 20 APoC in my simulator, I get 6.2x multiplier without DS, 6.7 with, and DS contributes 7.16% of the dps. The difference between the two is more like 8%, so there's 1% dps added from DS that's indirect.

8% is still different from the 10% in game results, but I think it's close enough. There's just too many factors to get the results to match completely all the time between latency, reaction time, and just plain RNG.

In short, 5-10% is a good range to say for single target DS DPS.

EDIT: Another aside, Hydra coefficient is also 0.
Edited by Loroese#1415 on 11/27/2012 4:57 PM PST
@Loroese: Cool, so then there's a bit more agreement. Actually I was in fact stating how much DS contributed to SnS, which is (6.86-6.18)/6.86 = 9.91%. It would be a 11% if we we asked how much we'd gain by adding Diamond Shards to SnS: (6.86-6.18)/6.18 = 11%. Hehehe, yeah we're seriously geeking out here.

P.S I think HolyFork was running with 2.77 APS, 53% Crit. Though you're simulated number of 7% seems closer and the difference may be just low-sample size. :)
Don't forget a boss Kara's ammy with 7% CC WW is about as GG as it get for WW wizards ;P
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@OP good to see your guide in Wiz compendium, some good work done there. Surprised it took someone so long to actually write a proper guide.


Thanks Aph!

I was board to tears at work the last few days (read: weeks, maybe months) and needed something to do. It's probably the most expensive guide ever written!

Now, maybe I should use my spare time to theory craft a Wave of Force build....
Just to be sure... Chantodo's Will is one and only viable weapon? Cause when I look for ones I could afford, it's about 25% loss of dps =/ So before I decide to get one, I would prefer to know all my options =D
Chantodo is the best, but max IAS Dagger is also viable, use one with black dmg and Trium. You will need all the possible IAS items, save Mempo, to reach 2.73 though. Nothing comes close to Chantodo's level, just use it. Or be happy with 2.5 aps, it's not bad.
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