Diablo® III

ShockNadoShards (SNS), a CM/WW build [guide]

12/26/2012 01:24 PMPosted by Monsta
Are there diminishing returns on CC? I'm at 2.77 aps and 54.5 cc. I'm thinking about losing some cc so I can work on other stats. Is this a good idea?


Short answer is no.

I hit 76.5% CC when I hit deep freeze, and you can definately feel the surge in AP and cool downs are non existent. Of course this is @ 3.01aps+. Might be different at 2.77.
I think where 50+ CC comes in handy is when you are speed farming, wormholeing around, land in a bad situation. High CC helps recover AP so much more quickly, recovers LoH more quickly, and gets the windup going quickly. Basically, it lets you survive hairy situations like that reliably. 45 CC? Not so much....you must be a lot more careful. High CC also helps with DPS. So, cut CC at your own risk! That being said, this is the advice of Shand or Aimless or boozer, I forget which one. They had a formula....wormhole vs CC vs breakpoint, etc. I've never had CC that high to give personal advice here...I certainly wouldn't go below 50 though if you cut any.
Edited by PieHole#1628 on 12/26/2012 6:23 PM PST
Thanks PieHole for this extremely informative and comprehensive guide on SNS wiz, it certainly made things easier for everyone!

Hope someone can give me advice regarding my current situation - I just started an SNS wiz and basically only have these two items that may be of some use.

1) Helm: Andariel Visage - 154int, 50AR, 8AS and 4.5CC
2) Shoulders: Vile Ward - 195int, 80AR

I'm intending to get the following items:

1) Amulet - 1xx int, some vit, 9AS, 10CC
2) Ring1 - 1xx int, 1xx vit, 6AS, 6CC
3) Ring2 (Natalya's Reflection) - 8x vit, 7x int, 6x AR, 9AS
4) Chantodo Will - 1xxx DPS, 1.65APS, 9APOC, 1 socket (with 100CD)
5) Chantodo Force - 18x int, 8AS, 9CC, 9APOC
6) Chest (Tal Rasha's) - 14x int, 14x vit, 5x AR, 8AS
7) Gloves - 5x int, 3x vit, 9AS, 10CC, 20 CD
8) Bracers (Lacuni's) - 5x AR, 8AS, 4CC
9) Belt (Witching Hour) - 9x int, 7x vit, 4x AR, 8AS, 3x CD
10) Boots (Natalya's Bloody Footprints) - 9x int, 3x vit, 7x AR, 249 Armor
11) Pants (Blackthorne Jousting Mail) - 9x int, 9x vit, 433 LOH, 10% Life

With all the above-mentioned items, I'm at:

1.65 APS (Chantodo's Will) + 74 IAS
15xx int, 7xx vit
4xx LOH
50.5CC, 158 CD
37x AR
32xx Armor
18 APOC

Now I have 7 IAS to spare to still reach the 2.73 APS Breakpoint, so I was wondering what item could be changed?

In addition, my AR and LOH is a huge problem its almost half of what's needed.

What would you do/choose if you were in this situation?

PS: Apologies for the extremely long text.
Edited by UpIsDown#1590 on 12/27/2012 9:59 AM PST
@up

I'd pay attention to a few things. I'd sac IAS on your Ammy. (Which means you might have to pick up a few IAS elsewhere to reach 2.73). Ammy is the most flexible piece of armor you have. I'd look for one w 9+CC, 400+ LoH, and high res all or maybe CD. But you need the big LoH there. You really need to get your armor above 4k, preferably 4.5k. It's life changing above 5k!! If you're not getting all res on your pants, try to get 750+armor there.

Also, don't just look for damage with your force, look for one w a useful affix, like Str (armor) or vit. People forget about that.

Also, watch your life. Make sure you don't have more than 35k life. Anything more than that us just wasteful. Drop the extra vit and add something else (like str).

For ring 1: if you're losing 9 IAS from your Ammy, and have 7 to spare, then you need to pick up 2. I'd suggest a ring with 5cc, 8 IAS, 60+ all res, and something else, like armor/vit/int.

That's all I got for you! Cheers! It'll be interesting to see what you're like when it's all put together.
@PieHole

Thanks for the input!

I made some changes to my ammy, ring, bracers and pants. I included AR in the pants and also decided to drop the 4CC on my Lacuni's in exchange for more armor and so that I'm able to spend more on ring and ammy), my overall stats are as follows:

2.73APS
17xx int
51CC, 208CD
96xxx DPS, 8xx LOH
610AR, 3928 Armor

My hp would be down to 24xxx at Paragon level 0, and eventually reaching 29xxx~30xxx at Paragon level 50.

Something still feels strange because all these items add up to over 600m, and yet the amount spent doesn't seem cost-effective. The other threads mentioned 100~400m to build up a WIZ with around the same stats. In addition, my DPS seemed to be hanging at 96xxx~100xxx max, is this within appropriate range?

What do you think can be improved?
Yeah, something's not adding up. And I obviously can't see all your gear and prices. My gear, for instance, has cost me just over 100m, Id guess. Prices have gone up on some things, but down for most others. I've slowly built it up, usually waiting for a good deal, so to speak. My gear, from what I remember (if you want to compare):
Chant will: 15 mil?
Left ring: few mil
Gloves: few mill a long time ago....worth a lot more now apparently
Shoulders: 5M I think, recently bought them
Helm: cheap, few mill
Chest: 8 or 9M, bought few weeks ago
Belt: 25 mil a few months ago
Pants: just under 20m, few months ago
Boots: 8 mil a long time ago
Chants force: 8 mil a few weeks ago
R ring: found, prolly worth 50m or more
Lacunis: I think were 8-10M
Ammy: on AH now, is 60CD, 9cc, 70 all res, etc, is 18 M

And this gets me to 5000 armor, ~ 700 resists, 100k DPS, 30k life, 2.75 IAS and high 40's CC.

I slowly built up my toon , usually scouting major purchases for a few days to a week before the right one came up at a good price. Maybe some were snipes, but couldn't have saved that much, really.
Edited by PieHole#1628 on 12/27/2012 8:22 PM PST
You also have some very pricy items. All resist on tals chest and lacunis And witching hour are really really expensive. I decided to not do that....basically because I can't afford it! I'd love to, but just can't. I put *some* on my belt.....couldn't get away with none. Couldn't put All res on lacunis, so went with armor instead. Couldn't afford all res on tals chest, so I maxed out armor at 800. The All res i have in blackthorns was an ok deal, but I still got a lot or armor too. I have to make up all res in my ring, Ammy, and glove. It's not ideal, but it's what I have to do.
If you slowly build up your toon it allows you to learn the market and what to min and max on each item.
And vit is also really pricy....and you have a little bit everywhere. On nats ring and witching hour are really expensive.....it has to go somewhere, I know. I waited around until a source showed up with some in my price range - not the first place you'd think of putting it - most people are only looking at damage for their source. Put stats there too. And yes, I got lucky with my right ring drop and its 80 vit.

Also, doing the nats thing is nice, but is it worth it? I'm not so sure. Ice climbers beats out most nats boots in everything but movement speed. And you have to spend a lot for a nice nats ring....to collect your 7 CC. Why not do ice climbers and a 6 CC ring? Now, if you can afford a CC nats ring, then you're in business! Other than that, I'm doing ice climbers/rare ring (btw, I have 20m in a nats ring and boots burning a hole in my stash - nice for a few extra CC, but I take a bit EHP hit with nats boots).
12/26/2012 06:22 PMPosted by PieHole
I think where 50+ CC comes in handy is when you are speed farming, wormholeing around, land in a bad situation. High CC helps recover AP so much more quickly, recovers LoH more quickly, and gets the windup going quickly. Basically, it lets you survive hairy situations like that reliably. 45 CC? Not so much....you must be a lot more careful. High CC also helps with DPS. So, cut CC at your own risk! That being said, this is the advice of Shand or Aimless or boozer, I forget which one. They had a formula....wormhole vs CC vs breakpoint, etc. I've never had CC that high to give personal advice here...I certainly wouldn't go below 50 though if you cut any.


You sure CC affects LOH...?

My understanding is the LOH is based on hits, not crits
Edited by Alesso#1854 on 12/27/2012 8:53 PM PST
wow i need some time to read this, much thx to Alesso. i hope i can be as good as you some day, perma freeze end game boss to make them useless. i can feel the power already.
12/27/2012 08:56 PMPosted by SuperJJ
wow i need some time to read this, much thx to Alesso. i hope i can be as good as you some day, perma freeze end game boss to make them useless. i can feel the power already.


Pssh, if it's RAW POWER you want, you should seek out the HOTA or WW barb style. Muahahahah...so much power! But yes, it is honorable that you value the Wizard ways too. We support you on your venture down the long, arduous road that is, building a high-MP functional SNS Wiz
ww barb are whimpy, hota is alright, cm wiz is the da best.
we appreciate the vote as best build. now if only you could convince the rest of the playerbase we aren't worthless

:D
naw, after seeing the like of Aimless in action, say what? this cm wizzy is like god, untouchable.
^Lol you should tell Aimless this, he will get a kick out of it. Just don't go posting this in the Barb forum -- that you think Wizards are better -- or THAT will be an *massive* ____storm. They are under the impression that they are better. More DPS. More survival. More everything -- so they think!

We just gotta wait for some ability to duel/pvp :D
^Lol you should tell Aimless this, he will get a kick out of it. Just don't go posting this in the Barb forum -- that you think Wizards are better -- or THAT will be an *massive* ____storm. They are under the impression that they are better. More DPS. More survival. More everything -- so they think!

We just gotta wait for some ability to duel/pvp :D
lol i have a barb, his also weakaling. but i have never meet a barb that make me like wow, they are god.
Edited by SuperJJ#1973 on 12/27/2012 9:23 PM PST
ah, I guess you haven't seen a good barb then! Shame, they are fun to play with

Good news for your weakaling barb is that it's actually *MUCH* cheaper to get your barb to a god-esque level than it is to get your SNS Wiz to that same functional level. This is the reason so many have complained about barbs so long. It's also a reason why it's so fun to gear a CM Wiz -- it takes dedication, and LOOOTS of time/gold! You can feel good about it, if you enjoy doing it :D
gimme some time to build it up to my god mode cm wiz. i can feel it, soon, soon.
12/27/2012 09:33 PMPosted by SuperJJ
gimme some time to build it up to my god mode cm wiz. i can feel it, soon, soon.


Good! Go for it. But please, please, don't be discouraged if you aren't in god-mode without spending a couple B's or at least several hundred M's
@alesso,

No, you're right CC doesn't affect LoH, I got carried away :-). More tics, from higher breakpoints, would affect LoH.
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