Diablo® III

How does CM Wiz kill high mp goblin?

Recently change my follower to ice base weapon I found it help alot to kill high mp goblin. I notice once goblin been freeze many times or being corner it will stop moving. I kill few times with mp10 but most unable to stop him.
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Just gotta get em locked down and burn. If you cant corner them and they are able to break free and run you probably will not get to kill them.
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It helps if there are other mans around that you can proc off of so you get a solid lockdown, but still, it isn't guaranteed that you'll pull it off. CM/WW has always had trouble with goblins.
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Sns
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Completely ignoring sheet dps (which in most cases u should when running this build) you don't have enough dps. or better word overall damage output.

Goblin (which should be viewed more than just this) is a race against time. If you only have 2 attack spells (Explosive Blast and ET) doing damage you will lose almost every time to higher MP goblins. My build has double the offensive spells than yours.

You have 160k dps
I have 100k dps
You have 50.5% CC on Twisters
I have 67% CC on Twisters
Your armor does no damage output
Mine does a lightning bolt doing 100% damage, and every time an ET tick crits (several times a second) it has a proc co-efficient chance to do 35% weapon damage
Your shield does no damage output
Mine does 215% every time CM refreshes
Your nova does 15% more damage output to your ET and EB
My nova (if the goblin is near 4 others, half the time is not) does 15% more CC improving everything I listed above, if I get it off, goblin is permafrozen and cannot throw up a teleport
Your teleport does no damage utility however can catch up to a running goblin
My stretch time slows the goblin by 65% and pushes my aps to 3 aps breakpoint improving every single thing I listed above

Makes a huge difference, food for thought - don't go spend millions in regearing or change up your entire skill/rune play just for goblins Hope for a good freeze chain if not let the bugger go, probably had garb anyway :P
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 11/30/2012 6:05 AM PST
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I get by with a little help from my friends...
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With a pocket DH
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But it goblin even worth killing? I have never ever gotten anything good from goblin except some gold may be. But never got even any good rare yellow items and it never ever dropped green or brown items.
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Ok, no offense to the previous posts here, but this is all bad advice you're being given. You're hearing the brute force approach and it can work... . I understand 100% what the other posters are suggesting, but there is a MUCH easier approach. There is a sweet spot time to stutterfreeze the little critters and that makes it almost 100% guranteed to kill them as a CM/WW wizard. It's not really a DPS race with CM/WW wizard. It's all about timing your first Frost Nova.

The thing is that goblins are programmed to be able to break crowd control effects (whenever you see them dash), which means if you try to lock down a goblin with Frost Nova they WILL break it. However... and this is REALLY important, the ability for goblins to break crowd control effects is for a limited time only. Once this period has passed, usually after they've dashed around twice and right around the time when they stop to teleport, you can begin to stutterfreeze them and lock them down. :D

And now you have all the time in the world to wail on the little suckers. This is where many CM/WW wizards have trouble. Because if you're trying to hit a single target and you screw up your first Frost Nova (and the goblin breaks it), your next Frost Nova is typically gonna be on cool-down and you lose your chance to freeze the goblin. The only way to mitigate that is to be in a crowd of monsters, but you don't need that if you time your first Nova right.

I've done this with as little as 40%cc+2.51aps in MP7. And with 2.73+aps you should have no problems locking them down. And you can do this both solo and multiplayer. My party members absolutely love that I can do this in the high difficulties (like MP10) and I have half the DPS of the OP. Seriously, it's not hard once you get use to it and the only reason to lose a goblin is because you screwed up the timing. :)

P.S. Slow Time or Teleport skills can also help keep the goblins from moving too far.
Edited by TekkZero#1963 on 11/30/2012 7:53 AM PST
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I resent you calling my Beatles quote bad advice.

Quoting the Beatles is NEVER bad advice! How dare you, sir!

Seriously though, your post script is dead on. He runs breaks my first Nova and bolts... I follow him around a bit and once he gets ready to open his portal, I teleport and start my freeze lock.

I've missed it a couple of times, but hit it more often than not.
Edited by Drayven#2543 on 11/30/2012 7:56 AM PST
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@Drayven: Oh no!! You're quite right. Quoting the Beatles is never bad advice. How could I have missed that was the title of a classic song! Shame on me! :lol I must submit my sinceriest apologies to you and beg your pardon! ;)

But yeah, it really helps to have teleport and slow time. Though ultimately it's not really hard to do goblins as a CM/WW wizard in any MP. I'd argue we are the best build to farm goblins, as we aren't as pressed for time and, thus, the DPS requirement drops significantly. I think I have a 90-95% success rate now in high MP difficulties, so once you get practice it's really straightforward to do. :)
Edited by TekkZero#1963 on 11/30/2012 8:14 AM PST
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11/30/2012 07:45 AMPosted by TekkZero
which means if you try to lock down a goblin with Frost Nova they WILL break it.

I don't think they can "break" it
All I see is after some time, it will be immune to cc after summoned a portal.
If you can keep it locked before they summon a portal, it will remain locked. But it can still summon a portal if you failed to perma lock it.
So
No matter how low your dps is, as long as you can keep it perma locked, you can kill it.

How to get it perma locked?
Never attack a single goblin, kite other mobs to it.
Slow time helps
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Nope, you can definitely do it with practice! :) It's unnecessary to have a group of monsters to take down a goblin.

The problem is that if you initially try to freeze them as a single target, they will dash around and break the Frost Nova. And then you've wasted it. Normally that's the death knell cuz you can't cast another Nova. BUT there is a small point in time after they dash around right before they open the teleport that they are vulnerable to being locked down. And it's best to save your first Frost Nova until then. You then get the full 3 seconds of freeze and by that time, you've already piled on the twisters to keep the goblin locked down.

Though once the goblins open the teleport, it's over... However, that window of opportunity is still huge for CM/WW wizards and dramatically reduces the DPS gear-check!!! :) The better you get at it, the longer you can stutterfreeze them before they jump. It does require though making the minimum CM/WW breakpoints.

EDIT: I haven't tried MP10 with 2.51aps, but it works just fine with 2.73 and 3.01aps breakpoints. :) But I suspect even 2.51aps works with Cold Snap.
Edited by TekkZero#1963 on 11/30/2012 8:36 AM PST
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Yah TekkZero you're right, I failed to mention that part there is that sweet spot right before they throw up a TP that you can chain lock them however my total advice isn't all wrong about not gearing just for goblins but for all elites that way. You can have it both ways and yes the frost timing is more vital than damage output this is why I specifically mentioned twister CC rates vs your approach of just saving it till that sweet spot mine almost always freezes on that sweet spot and chains em down because of my high CC/aps rates.

Get what you're saying though, good post :)
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@MasterJay: Thanks! I like to keep it simple. I was just feeling the message was being lost in that in this very specific case, strategy actually does reduce the gear check substantially (which is very rare in D3). Your points though are quite correct and I'm not trying to being dismissive of them. Higher stats, DPS, and skill choices do very much help on goblins, but IMO they aren't as critical as timing in my experience. We can brute force goblins all day, like everyone else does, but we will need very high stats to do it. Fortunately for us though we can reduce that gear-check by changing our strategy.

I know I couldn't do goblins at higher MPs without this approach, since I lack the raw stats. Right after 1.05 came out, it was actually me being bull-headed and not giving up on goblins on MP7 with a measly 40k dps and 2.51aps (I know I sucked :lol) that I eventually came upon this strategy.
Edited by TekkZero#1963 on 11/30/2012 10:14 AM PST
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Ok, no offense to the previous posts here, but this is all bad advice you're being given. You're hearing the brute force approach and it can work... . I understand 100% what the other posters are suggesting, but there is a MUCH easier approach. There is a sweet spot time to stutterfreeze the little critters and that makes it almost 100% guranteed to kill them as a CM/WW wizard. It's not really a DPS race with CM/WW wizard. It's all about timing your first Frost Nova.

The thing is that goblins are programmed to be able to break crowd control effects (whenever you see them dash), which means if you try to lock down a goblin with Frost Nova they WILL break it. However... and this is REALLY important, the ability for goblins to break crowd control effects is for a limited time only. Once this period has passed, usually after they've dashed around twice and right around the time when they stop to teleport, you can begin to stutterfreeze them and lock them down. :D

And now you have all the time in the world to wail on the little suckers. This is where many CM/WW wizards have trouble. Because if you're trying to hit a single target and you screw up your first Frost Nova (and the goblin breaks it), your next Frost Nova is typically gonna be on cool-down and you lose your chance to freeze the goblin. The only way to mitigate that is to be in a crowd of monsters, but you don't need that if you time your first Nova right.

I've done this with as little as 40%cc+2.51aps in MP7. And with 2.73+aps you should have no problems locking them down. And you can do this both solo and multiplayer. My party members absolutely love that I can do this in the high difficulties (like MP10) and I have half the DPS of the OP. Seriously, it's not hard once you get use to it and the only reason to lose a goblin is because you screwed up the timing. :)

P.S. Slow Time or Teleport skills can also help keep the goblins from moving too far.


^^ This

/thread
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my best bet would be to freeze him together with the mobs and kill em all together
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