Diablo® III

Ceilings, why they are awesome

So I decided to do a few uber runs this weekend and started farming the keys via mp5 to begin this endeavor. Little did I realize that the deities of the random generation of numbers had conspired against me in a devious plan to consume hours of time and stomp out any kind of reward. However, I settled in and began killing the minions of hell in droves as I wound my way to the keywardens, intent on spilling their entrails across the floor. I did so, and as I sifted through their pockets I found them to be incorrectly named. They had no keys. They had no keys again. And again. and again... and... and...

So yeah, 14 runs and 0 keys. That's a 1/16000 chance roughly. A bit over the top if you ask me.

Q: So how could this be corrected?
A: With the simple thing called a ceiling.

Ceilings, for those that don't know, are basically a way to limit RNG screw. They simply say after X failed tries, the game takes pity on you and gives you what you want. RNG still exists, but in a much more controlled fashion which is good since players can never get screwed to the point of absolute frustration. They can only get the bare minimum which while not good, is better than zero.

Q: How would this be applied to Diablo?
A: Another easy one. Whoever is asking these is giving me softballs.

Diablo has one quest and it has 6 drops. This is 6 ceilings total. Now, for instance, the lowest percent chance of any one of these is 5%. Highest is 100%. So we have 20 steps. Now, we assign level 10 MP as 20, and 0 MP as 1 and we fill in the middle. Now, using such a simple set of numbers, we'd have to bell curve the actual drop percents using this to get the desired numbers (somewhere around 30-35% at MP 5) as otherwise it'd make MP 6-9 worthless but that's fairly simple.

Now, this would add 6 numbers to each character on the servers as well. When you killed a boss, it'd add between 1 and 20 to one of these and then see whether the value is 20 or higher. If so, a key drops. If it is less than 20, you roll normally (using the MP 5 example, it'd be around 33% chance). If a key drops in either case, clear the number back to zero.

So now no one can be thoroughly screwed via RNG, only minorly.

Bonus!
Q: So that's cool for keys and ubers, but I don't care about that stupid ring, I want legendaries! Can you help there?
A: But of course...

Let's pretend that the game keeps track of how many elites you've killed. What, it already does? Fantastic! So we take our ceiling idea and say after roughly 40 elites kill that a legendary hasn't dropped, that elite will drop a legendary. If a legendary drops off anything, the drop code would reset that number. Now, whether this would need to account for monster power is debatable and arguments could be made for both sides.

Next Week: Floors and how they can make it so people stop just running lower MP levels.
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40 elites is way too little and this kinda goes against the spirit of the game imo. What mp were you running that got you 0/14 keys?
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12/03/2012 05:51 AMPosted by Conneri
started farming the keys via mp5


12/03/2012 05:55 AMPosted by MensoDummy
What mp were you running that got you 0/14 keys?

Summary of the Diablo forums.
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1 Draenei Warrior
0
Posts: 1,178
Except that now it is no longer random. One of the aspects of Diablo is that the next kill, you may get complete crap, or the best item you've ever seen, you just don't know. Once you start doing this, it won't be "I wonder when I'll see my next legendary", it'll be "oh another 3 elite kills until one drops for sure". You've also made no considerations for magic find in your legendary "solution" there.

As for the floors, seeing as how Blizzard directly stated they didn't overly make higher MP's worthwhile because they do not want to force players into high MP levels to farm if they do not want to play at those levels, I'd say that's another pointless idea that they'll ignore.
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Farmed by yourself... 0 keys..

Farm with others... enjoy the keys..
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So yeah, 14 runs and 0 keys. That's a 1/16000 chance roughly. A bit over the top if you ask me.


That's no so bad, really. RNG always requires someone to take the bad luck. So out of every 16384 people who did 14 runs, one person will get zero keys.

That's you.

The other 16383 players thank you.
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Posts: 671
They did it that way for proc coefficients in Warcraft III.

Say the mountain king had a 10% chance to bash.
So you go off and whack an enemy, and you miss the 10% chance.
The next time you whack something, he has a 20% chance to bash.
You miss the proc again, and the next whack has a 30% chance, all the way to 100%.

Whenever the skill proc, the stacked chance bonuses are automatically reset.
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12/03/2012 06:00 AMPosted by Kayaan
Except that now it is no longer random.


As if there isn't enough "random" already in D3.
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+1

I've felt this should be implemented for set item drops (not legendary drops).
I say this because sets should be farmable to complete withing reason.
No one should have to play 1000's of hours to finish a set without use of the AH.

Example:
Each hour of gameplay where a set item doesn't drop a hidden 2.5% bonus is applied to the character. Meaning if the player has the worst luck ever, after 40 hours they will get a guaranteed set item drop.
Edited by babinro#1836 on 12/3/2012 7:13 AM PST
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+1 for a great idea.
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12/03/2012 05:51 AMPosted by Conneri
14 runs and 0 keys.


5 NV before killing keywarden? o.O? Even at MP5 0/14 is a little extreme . . . ><:
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This would be great news for botters.
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I don't understand what everyone's problem is. I have done over a dozen portals which i farmed myself in hardcore. I've gotten about half of them on power zero just during normal exp/mf runs and the rest I found when I upped the power to 2 or 3 specifically for the keys themselves. The drop-rates seem correct to me and are actually comparable to the organ runs of lod which i never complained about either. Learn to play guys! Yes odds can seem off if you are on a bad luck streak but then you might find a key in three games in a row to counter it. Be persistent. 20 runs or 50 runs is not a good sample of odds. Keep in mind that I have done this and consider myself to be the unlucky one of the group that I run with. Hell, i was even selling portals for 3 mil each to other groups. If drops are so bad, how are there players with 20-plus hellfire rings?(and organs don't always drop in the ports either.) So I didn't hit 36 on the roulette wheel and I gambled it 40 times? How is this possible omg...
I am however taking a break from d3 until we have some changes that are unrelated to endgame content.

The Op's thread has socialist undertones.
Edited by Incoherent#1536 on 12/3/2012 8:23 AM PST
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I refuse to listen to a softcore player complain about drops with sooo much gear available. Try hardcore and you will see why you get flamed. I refuse to listen to a softcore player complain about keydrops while your softcore immortality allows you to up the power to whatever you please, actually increasing your odds beyond any odds that us hardcore players play with.

A thread full of softcore players complaining about drops. What a joke. Your immortal!

thank you, that us all!
Edited by Incoherent#1536 on 12/3/2012 8:30 AM PST
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12/03/2012 08:27 AMPosted by Incoherent
I refuse to listen to a softcore player complain about drops with sooo much gear available. Try hardcore and you will see why you get flamed.


You realize that HC is a major niche of this game, right?

It's like saying I can't take your HC opinion seriously if you've ever used the AH.
This is a LOOT HUNTING GAME! As soon as you use crafting, the AH, a merchant or the trade window you complete remove the ENTIRE POINT of playing this game.

Hardcore players significantly lowering the difficulty by using the AH and then considering themselves superior to softcore, what a joke.
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Gormak, you take offense to my post but I actually play with the risk of permanent character loss and still manage to craft rings. We also find keys on much lower power than Sc players run. I have a suggestion that is constructive if that helps.

You can get a group of three guys and each guy opens one portal. There, you just increased your portal farming by 300% You farm 1 of each key and you get to run 3 portals instead of one.

There are players with dozens of rings which means they have farmed several hundred keys. I find it hard to believe that anyone has found zero keys as I (who has very bad luck) have found at least a few dozen in hardcore.
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I refuse to listen to a softcore player complain about drops with sooo much gear available. Try hardcore and you will see why you get flamed.


You realize that HC is a major niche of this game, right?

It's like saying I can't take your HC opinion seriously if you've ever used the AH.
This is a LOOT HUNTING GAME! As soon as you use crafting, the AH, a merchant or the trade window you complete remove the ENTIRE POINT of playing this game.

Hardcore players significantly lowering the difficulty by using the AH and then considering themselves superior to softcore, what a joke.


Did I say i was superior? Your twisting my statement into something else. My point is more obvious and you are simply ignoring it. I at least have the courtesy to read yours for what it is and I can see right through your fake attempt to take offense and turn this into sc-hc superiority argument but i do come at this from a hardcore perspective and It is in fact more difficult to find keys in hardcore than it is in softcore and yet I made the observation that it is the softcore players that take up the issue. I think that speaks for itself.
Edited by Incoherent#1536 on 12/3/2012 8:50 AM PST
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