Diablo® III

CM 2.75 vs 3.0 dps question

12/05/2012 07:44 AMPosted by Aimless
Im not talking about damage but build function. Well recharge rate. Movement of singles (cooldowns). LOH recharge. 3 is huge compared to what 5 more crit gave. I wont even get more crit most likely ever because already 5 meh what's 10 gonna do? Buyer remorse i'm sure of it and on our tight budgets you have to use gold optimally. :P


Ahhhh okay, yah you're right on bro - that's Blizzard's fault though their servers cannot handle a certain threshold of calculations. That's why 3.33 is just a bad option. Would need testing but I'd assume @ 3.33 aps with 60% CC it's just auto lock up on illusionist and stutter frame on horde. Both? GG you dead from lag ..and this is just solo.

3 vs 3.33 just has never ever impressed me but 2.73 to 3 seems to make a world of difference so I can see where you're coming from with low 50's vs high 50's. I agree if I had your gear and gearing plan I'd def shoot for just 3 aps and ignore additional CC.

I wish you were still around my DPS like we'd been for awhile so we could test these different levels but nooo had to go baws mode and get 140k lol, nah man congrats dude well deserved good to see your advancing up there with the big dogs :)
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I would think, honestly, that when someone achieves 55% cc and 3.0+aps, its time to think about crit damage to pad the numbers a bit. I would still love to get a 1200+ dps wand with 10% attack speed and APOC.

I am not going to set here and say CC is a bad thing to have, but it is expensive and borderline impossible to achieve a CC that can actually make a difference once your at that 55% stage.


Make no mistake about it, I agree with this. Look I'm not preaching everyone get on my CC like Aph lol. I'm just saying it isn't meaningless, at all. Aph's the all around package, he can afford to do that with his CC without sacrificing anything really, it's all set - he is end game period. Players around my level would be sacrificing too much to attain those CC levels.

Basically what I'm trying to say is do what I say not what I do! lol, I am totally experimental with stats.. ignore my profile all together..hide profile would be a great option Blizzard! :P

Anyway this thread is about aps and kinda got derailed by super high CC values, let's get back on track with APS. 3 aps is gud, with chant's CD even betta - goal for it and go for it! Then you can start pushing CC higher OP. Remember he's @ 50 %, not all this 55% vs 60% stuff we were talking about.

Speaking of 50% I know it likely doesn't work this way but I'd want to be @ 51% just cuz I know for a fact i'd be critting OVER half the time, more 'lucky crit streaks' would appear that in a shorter amount of time I'd think. Again likely doesn't work that way and I'm just theorycrafting here, I would just think 51% would be more on lucks favor than not.
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 12/5/2012 8:14 AM PST
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Actually it's still on track. We just discussed if CC is worth more or aps worth more. In the end it seems aps is worth more. I'm still not convinced that 3.01 aps is that great though. More DPS is better imo.
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I would think, honestly, that when someone achieves 55% cc and 3.0+aps, its time to think about crit damage to pad the numbers a bit. I would still love to get a 1200+ dps wand with 10% attack speed and APOC.

I am not going to set here and say CC is a bad thing to have, but it is expensive and borderline impossible to achieve a CC that can actually make a difference once your at that 55% stage.


Make no mistake about it, I agree with this. Look I'm not preaching everyone get on my CC like Aph lol. I'm just saying it isn't meaningless, at all. Aph's the all around package, he can afford to do that with his CC without sacrificing anything really, it's all set - he is end game period. Players around my level would be sacrificing too much to attain those CC levels.

Basically what I'm trying to say is do what I say not what I do! lol, I am totally experimental with stats.. ignore my profile all together..hide profile would be a great option Blizzard! :P

Anyway this thread is about aps and kinda got derailed by super high CC values, let's get back on track with APS. 3 aps is gud, with chant's CD even betta - goal for it and go for it! Then you can start pushing CC higher OP. Remember he's @ 50 %, not all this 55% vs 60% stuff we were talking about.


Just wait, eventually I will have a 9% AS and 6% cc Mempo and a higher crit natalya's and a higher crit wailing or other. I will push over 60% cc and maintain the 3 aps. I want to see what happens at 79%+ attack speed and 60%+ CC. Aph has more damage because of crit damage gear that I refuse to pay $500 dollar a item for. For me it is all about pushing the boundaries of CC and APS.
Edited by Azodeus#1244 on 12/5/2012 8:17 AM PST
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Just wait, eventually I will have a 9% AS and 6% cc Mempo and a higher crit natalya's. I will push over 60% cc and maintain the 3 aps. I want to see what happens at 79% attack speed and 60% CC.


I'm there bud, been there for a bit. It's amazing..problem is I have no good CD chants to compare it with for testing. I mean I suppose even a meh one would do, but I can't afford even that atm. even a 900 dps one with a socket gives me like 15k dps cuz of my CC lol. I see amulets all the time that give 20-30k dps cuz of CC and i'm like ah that's nice..ignore lol.

I suppose what I could do is find a CD one that's underpriced , test and make sure I can resell it quickly to at least break even....maybe I'll do that.
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 12/5/2012 8:21 AM PST
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12/05/2012 08:19 AMPosted by MasterJay
Just wait, eventually I will have a 9% AS and 6% cc Mempo and a higher crit natalya's. I will push over 60% cc and maintain the 3 aps. I want to see what happens at 79% attack speed and 60% CC.


I'm there bud, been there for a bit. It's amazing..problem is I have no good CD chants to compare it with for testing. I mean I suppose even a meh one would do, but I can't afford even that atm. even a 900 dps one with a socket gives me like 15k dps cuz of my CC lol. I see amulets all the time that give 20-30k dps cuz of CC and i'm like ah that's nice..ignore lol.


I'm over 3.0001 with enchantress and %62CC while using the gear in my profile ...Is there anything that you wanna know in particular?

I mean...yeah...it's awesome. Just wish I could run this setup while in groups, but atm I can't justify replacing my current ammy with anything I see out there to reach over 3.0 with out enchant.
Edited by BDF#1838 on 12/5/2012 8:25 AM PST
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12/05/2012 08:19 AMPosted by MasterJay
Just wait, eventually I will have a 9% AS and 6% cc Mempo and a higher crit natalya's. I will push over 60% cc and maintain the 3 aps. I want to see what happens at 79% attack speed and 60% CC.


I'm there bud, been there for a bit. It's amazing..problem is I have no good CD chants to compare it with for testing. I mean I suppose even a meh one would do, but I can't afford even that atm. even a 900 dps one with a socket gives me like 15k dps cuz of my CC lol. I see amulets all the time that give 20-30k dps cuz of CC and i'm like ah that's nice..ignore lol.

I suppose what I could do is find a CD one that's underpriced , test and make sure I can resell it quickly to at least break even....maybe I'll do that.


I have one that is sitting at 1070 or something like that with a cd socket in it. I imagine at 60% cc and 3 aps with a high dps chants wand with a CD socket something amazing will happen. I am hoping treasure goblins just fall over dead because they understand its futile to resist.
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I have been considering just saying !@#$ all to my EHP and just going balls to the wall DPS with 3.01 IAS and 60 CC...as much CD as possible...
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12/05/2012 08:49 AMPosted by Warath
I have been considering just saying !@#$ all to my EHP and just going balls to the wall DPS with 3.01 IAS and 60 CC...as much CD as possible...


Make sure u repay me b4 you die or leave it in your will.
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man, I want to hit like 350K SNS with Lifesteal @ 3.01, lol.
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i can go up to 3 aps switching my nats set for legacy zuni and using buble at the cost of some 50 ar and 2.5cc and im not really sold on which is better. my dps is higher at 3 aps obviously, but so is my sheet dps (6-7k more) where as my survivability gets better at 2.73 but having teleport also helps.

I really need to do some testing to see how it works out in my case, shame i havent been able to log in this last week to test it out.
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Get 3.01 unbuffed without slow time.
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i can with lacuni and enchantress... but the kind of lacuni id want are just too expensive, and the rest just feel crap ehp wise
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Wow,

Thanks for the insights people. I have so much reading to do now. When I use a socket chant I give up a lot cause I have to put innas on to get over 3 but I do have a iAS chant that lowers my dps a ton but I then can put on blackthrone pants.

The higher the MP lvl the more likely I have to ignore dps and instead look at my armor and AR set up. I do speed clears with my friends on MP4 and I even turn on the glass cannon. But I know better not to do that at harder lvls.

With all my gear the best set up I have for dps/mit gives me ias 2.72 :( I have to get a better IAS unity. My unity is a 5% boost only. :(

edit: Its a shame profile's don't update quickly. Half the stuff on me isn't even the set up for my original post.
Edited by Chopain#1624 on 12/5/2012 11:19 AM PST
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I'm over 3.0001 with enchantress and %62CC while using the gear in my profile ...Is there anything that you wanna know in particular?

I mean...yeah...it's awesome. Just wish I could run this setup while in groups, but atm I can't justify replacing my current ammy with anything I see out there to reach over 3.0 with out enchant.


Oh no really I'm just trying to get back to the OP's question of 2.73 vs 3.0. I've found one that I can likely resell and break even. It's 1040 but has more base damage. Mines a 1080 with less base damage but 1.78. This is perfect. I gain 27k dps with the CD one. I find it the most equal balancing to my IAS one for damage vs price vs aps. It's a 1.63.

The CD one wins on MP6 Ghom testing 36 M HP by exactly 5 seconds on average. The short runs I did slightly favor AS but runs are so random it's not a very very accurate test. I did compare elite kills though, bottom line is AS never hit 5 minutes even with 5 elites but CD couldn't get below 4 minutes (very close on the last one though, but only cuz 2 elites were paired together).

Now I'm testing the most important thing and that's elite killing timings, should have a conclusion here in a few. I'm running MP8. I'll likely run MP3 too. MP0 will obviously favor CD to the max but then again no one doing this build should be running MP0, completely ineffective - go archon for that crap.
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 12/5/2012 11:17 AM PST
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I love atk spd. I think 3.XX is the way 2 go if you want better stutter lock and more dps for grp play. My normal uber group is around 2min kills besides magdah fight.

when i farm mp10 only thing that kills me are 2 mobs.

1. A3 succubus with RD and some other bad affixs electrify /vortex/desiccator/Lazers/frozen/ shielding. the double RD from there debuff is super nasty and I have to be very careful when killing them.

2. A2 blazing guardian mobs mainly with RD/horde as the major 2, minor ones vortex/frozen/ shielding/ lazwers

can't really think of any other combos where I get super pissed when I see them
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I'm there bud, been there for a bit. It's amazing..problem is I have no good CD chants to compare it with for testing. I mean I suppose even a meh one would do, but I can't afford even that atm. even a 900 dps one with a socket gives me like 15k dps cuz of my CC lol. I see amulets all the time that give 20-30k dps cuz of CC and i'm like ah that's nice..ignore lol.

I suppose what I could do is find a CD one that's underpriced , test and make sure I can resell it quickly to at least break even....maybe I'll do that.


I have one that is sitting at 1070 or something like that with a cd socket in it. I imagine at 60% cc and 3 aps with a high dps chants wand with a CD socket something amazing will happen. I am hoping treasure goblins just fall over dead because they understand its futile to resist.


Oh no doubt haha @ goblin comment, for sure. We all know CD + 3 aps is the way to go. But OP is wondering like right now what should he do. Stay at 2.73 so he doesn't have to worry about upgrading minor 1% AS here and there and can begin gearing CD or go for the 3 aps so what I'm trying to see is what's better at high CC levels - 2.73 with a CD chants or 3.01 with a double AS. If it's pretty equal in run performance and elite kills (would lose to uber grouping in favor of AS) then he should focus on other gearing and keep his wand.

So far I am finding the AS one just runs much much smoother. You freeze elites quicker, they run away less and you are less clunkier on apoc. All this was pretty obvious, I am just curious on the fact that with the CD one if you're killing faster does it make up for it's less efficiency combat per combat. No doubt AS is better on defensive, you will die less from it but if you're on a lower MP you won't die at all with both (like MP4 which I tested with both).
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 12/5/2012 11:29 AM PST
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Gonna try to figure out posting pictures of set ups to show what I can do at different break points. I like to mainly play in groups so if I can have a perfect mix of my gear for MP 6 max then I'll be happy. I say mp6 'cause most of my friends don't want a slower game at higher MP lvls.
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......
Edited by Chopain#1624 on 12/5/2012 12:27 PM PST
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i can go up to 3 aps switching my nats set for legacy zuni and using buble at the cost of some 50 ar and 2.5cc and im not really sold on which is better. my dps is higher at 3 aps obviously, but so is my sheet dps (6-7k more) where as my survivability gets better at 2.73 but having teleport also helps.

I really need to do some testing to see how it works out in my case, shame i havent been able to log in this last week to test it out.


Yah I'd test it out, it's really all going to depend on CC levels when comparing 2.73 to 3, CD vs AS chants , elite killings and run times , modifiers and whatnot.

I love atk spd. I think 3.XX is the way 2 go if you want better stutter lock and more dps for grp play. My normal uber group is around 2min kills besides magdah fight.

when i farm mp10 only thing that kills me are 2 mobs.

1. A3 succubus with RD and some other bad affixs electrify /vortex/desiccator/Lazers/frozen/ shielding. the double RD from there debuff is super nasty and I have to be very careful when killing them.

2. A2 blazing guardian mobs mainly with RD/horde as the major 2, minor ones vortex/frozen/ shielding/ lazwers

can't really think of any other combos where I get super pissed when I see them


Oh there's no doubt 3 aps is vastly superior for group play than 2.73 with more CD / mitigations or whatnot. Solo and speed runs? Very questionable.

12/05/2012 08:49 AMPosted by Warath
I have been considering just saying !@#$ all to my EHP and just going balls to the wall DPS with 3.01 IAS and 60 CC...as much CD as possible...


Go for it! We need more risk taking against the grainers! I'm risking ET CC and if Blizz nerfs it again I'm basically screwed lol..well eh, not so far really just 1 piece - if I invest into Skull grasp ET CC than I'll be SOL if nerf.

What's the worse that can happen? It fails and then you become a lower MP speed runner for awhile till u build back up mitigations? Sounds like win win to me till Blizzard does something about higher MP rewards lol. Well then there's PVP though..might be a little behind if you do that, but if you don't care about PvP I say go for it!

I can tell you since I'm at 3.01 with 60% CC that it's very very comfortable and safe. I don't have the most AR in the world (in fact on the low side for our mitigation demanding build) and I do fine, especially since I raised my HP. There's a thin line between "fine" and "need more!" though so take that with a grain of salt.

Ok back to testing!
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 12/5/2012 11:58 AM PST
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