Diablo® III

CM 2.75 vs 3.0 dps question

Pics with CD chants weapon........... I'll post some IAS chant weapon set ups in a few.

This would be my perfect set up IMO with dps/mit But as you see my ias is 2.72 because I need a faster Unity. So each time I play I have to change something on there that either takes away my dps/mit for better breakpoint but lower LOH/mit.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7268/diabloiii20121205144125.png

This is my compromise build to get over 2.73.
I put on andy's and apoc source on.

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8826/diabloiii20121205144610.png

Another compromise to get over 2.73. No Andy's but with inna's

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3016/diabloiii20121205145455.png

Here is with inna had to take off ammy and put LOH ammy (non CD high LOH) on. Took off unity for a trifecta 9%ias ring. ias 3.06

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/9196/diabloiii20121205144844.png
Edited by Chopain#1624 on 12/5/2012 11:56 AM PST
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Every time I buy a Nats set, I sell it because I see no benefit from the CC. I've done that at least 3 times now.

I will probably try the 3.0 breakpoint again though. Just need mempo, apoc force, and inna's. Unfortunately, it's going to cost me about 5k life, 500 armor, 70 resist, and some dps too boot :(


I agree - I am going to ditch it and open up my ring options again, all I need is 9 IAS and 5CC on a ring and ill be happy, + armor/ar/loh/vit/dmg/cd as needed.

Gonna go back to Ice Climbers, I think...any other high EHP boots?
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You guys are nuts, you just cannot beat 7% CC boots pretty much! CC Nat's have come down too..4%'ers like mine you can start to get below 100m now. Got mine for 80m but 1D12H deal (which is very hard to do on CC Nat's, right place right time). Probably worth about 110-120M cuz of the MF/INT combo.

The only thing I'd ever consider over CC Nat's..would be CD Nat's lol. 4% CC is too much to drop for my liking though.
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 12/5/2012 12:03 PM PST
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It's not a cost issue. It's just that at 2.73+ AS, I can't feel any benefit from the 7-10 CC I gain with Nats. I keep trying it and I keep giving up on it. It's entirely possible I killed as fast with 60CC/150dps vs 50CC/200dps because EBs and ETs might fire off quicker, but I really didn't notice it or noticed an improvement in my freeze.

Attack speed is a whole other story. Frenzy shrines clearly tell me reaching the next breakpoint makes a massive difference.

Wizards can also reach 3.0 with perfect 9% IAS in 8 slots + stretch time. I might opt to do this since I keep my DPS and EHP (and it's cheaper). Still, finding a solid replacement for my current 8% Force is no small feat.


That's interesting that's exactly why I wanted to run these tests. I absolutely notice a difference in the freeze but again I have 7% ET CC and ET is what determines most of the CM procs. EB doesn't tick, EB doesn't have breakpoints and EB is .014 less co-efficient than ET. So if anyone out there has EB CC I'd say drop that ish asap lol.

Yes that's my grand gearing plan to just stay at 2.84+ that will give me 3 aps and use bubble. I am only wormholing for paragon. Once I hit paragon 80-85 I'll be done with teleport for good once again and return to bubble solo and all high MPs from there. The loot will far outweigh all this exp / efficiency per hour stuff. All that stuff completely ignores bonus items and just focuses on EXP gain / hr honestly. If I had 150+k dps, I'd be doing higher MP runs right now.

I dunno man, I notice a pretty significant difference in freeze and even see diamond skin refresh a lot faster than with less CC, just 5.5% less makes a big difference for me, especially the arcane gains. Then again like I said it could be the 7% ET CC. I aint trying to preach it trust me..I want my CD+CC+ET/CC Mara's sometime before PvP :P
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 12/5/2012 12:33 PM PST
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Ok so here's my short testing, probably need to do longer runs to get a full grasp:

My stats:

63% CC buffed with scoundrel
7% Energy Twister CC

CD Chants = 2.75 APS, 129K DPS
AS Chants = 3.01 APS, 102K DPS

Results:

Ghom MP 6 runs, ~36 M HP (36,006,XXX) All tests done with Bone Chill (15% more damage)

CD chants 129kdps:

37.67s
36.91s
37.06s

average: 37.21s = 967K dps / 129k = x7.4 modifier

APS chants 102k dps:

42.40s
42.37s
42.72s

average: 42.49s = 847K dps / 102k dps = x8.3 modifier

So theoretically if the modifier is based off the APS with CC value it should stay the same no matter how much CD you have. Thus CD chantodos + 3.01 aps would theoretically be the dps result of the CD with the difference in modifier?

967 x 1.19 = 1,150KKDPS ? I probably did that wrong - i'll leave the math theorcrafting to the experts and just continue with the raw numbers lol

I'm not sure if this next bit is any helpful at all, I did notice smoother runs doing AP chants..everything was just far more efficient..less damage spikes, less moving around less margin of error. Less time spent though? I'm not too sure, would probably have to do longer runs. These were done on MP4 to ensure no deaths but also to ensure optimal build function, again MP0 would obviously favor the CD one, that should be a given:

Core & Tower of damned 1 clears MP4:

CD testings 129K sheet DPS:

4 elites killed 5.22M
5 elites killed 5.01M (2 grouped for lock down freeze)
5 elites killed 5.05M

total: 14 elites killed 15.28 minutes. average: 4.66 elites killed in 5.09 minutes

AS testings 102K sheet DPS:

4 elites killed 4.47M
4 elites killed 4.31M
5 elites killed 4.58M (2 grouped for lock down freeze)

total: 13 elites killed 13.36 minutse. average: 4.33 elites killed in 4.45 minutes

Although runs are really hard to factor, especially ones of shorter natures because of randomness, keep in mind I am rolling with 27K more sheet DPS on the CD runs and they are all at 5 minutes while the APS at 27K sheet dps are all at 4 (albeit the last one at pretty much 5). I think that speaks volumes to the effectiveness of APS breakpoints. Averaging 3 really doesn't help, just looking at them side by side does.

And finally just elite kills, again not going to the extreme of MP10 where likely APS would win out (besides no one really farms MP10 consistently for efficiency) I go with MP8 to keep it more balanced. This is probably the most random and inaccurate testing of em all since well random affixes are random, random mobs are random but we'll just go with it cuz game is random!

MP8 Elites:

CD Chants 129K dps:

31s 69Mhp ~2.2M dps
21S 46MHP ~2.2M dps
42s 56mhp ~1.3M dps
38s 50mhp ~1.3M dps

AS chants 102K dps:
43.5s 49Mhp ~1.1M dps
43.4s 48Mhp ~1.1M dps (lol, consistency ftw)
29.8s 41Mhp ~1.3M dps
40.1s 42Mhp ~1.1M dps

Ok so what this tells me is, HEY u got 129k dps!? COOL let's give you more HP elites! HEY u only got 102k dps? Okay we feel sorry give u puny HP elites (wtf for real).

In all seriousness what this tells me is despite popular belief the AS one is more stable and provides more of a real DPS measure, yes the times are higher, but it's much more reliable and flows smoother. The CD ones are all over the place but generally less time taken for more damage output, after all it IS 27K more dps. Admittingly I almost died twice on the CD ones, did actually die once and had to redo the elites. No problems like this whatsoever in the AS ones. So to actually run the tests the CD ones took longer, just to note.

The bottom line:

If you just completely outgear and faceroll the MP you're doing, no trouble of death whatsoever unless you're 1,2,3ing in one hand and the other is occupied elsewhere CD chants is your solution, especially for lower MPs where IAS chantodo's won't shine with the wind up, better to just kill it down before even a full wind up. CD chants simply does more dps to elites. Your mileage my vary, if you have high 40 / low 50's in CC an equal comparing damage CD chants would likely not even be worth it, would have to save for above and beyond which gets very costly compared to AS. It should be based on a percentage of overall dps increase rather than something like 50k vs 80k. 100k vs 130k - obviously the first differences is a higher % so would be more worth it.

If you're doing MP and content that are challenging (like ubers) you might want to consider AS chantodos, this will give some much needed gearing relief till you can maintain a 3 aps breakpoint without it.

AS chantodos is smoother for the build, gives a higher modifier for your sheet dps and more stable damage. This is because it's a free breakpoint no matter what below 3 aps, regardless of CC it will help immensely in survivability. To the results unless you're doing boss runs or very low MP speed runs it does not seem worth it to spend extra gold to get a CD chantodos, just save till you can reach your aps gearing to perfect, then apply your CD wand. Or get it now for speed runs / bosses, don't really care just providing some numbers!

----> TL;DR: <-----

If you can maintain 2.73 aps, get CD wand if you're speed running mainly for exp in low mps. If you have super awesome mitigations and CC and just never die also get CD @ 2.73 and just work APS up from it.

If you have AS chants hitting 3 aps and maybe die once or twice during your run, just keep it - you'll die much more often with the CD one and only cut off elite times not actual run times (unconfirmed for long runs) which depends on your CC as well. If you are hunting for items and not speed paragon runs Just keep till u hit 3 aps w/o than switch.

Well that was fun, time to resell!
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 12/5/2012 1:43 PM PST
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And the winner? ET CC Chants lol. Check this out. At 2.73 aps and 3.6k dps lower than my double AS chantodos it got these numbers against MP6 ghom:

Stats: 63% CC (76% ET CC)

6% ET CC chants 98k dps 2.77 aps (1.65 aps)

43.41s
45.45s
46.21s

average: 45.02s

vs
IAS chants 102k dps 3.01 aps (1.78 aps)

42.55s
43.01s
45.84s

average: 43.80s

So at a higher dps number, higher aps, higher entire breakpoint IAS chants only comes out on average 1.2 seconds faster on 36M HP ghom vs ET CC Chants. This means when both breakpoints are equal ET CC would outdo APS chants even with less sheet dps and less dps number... reason why I went on this, 2 pieces ahead - just need that damn skull grasp!
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