Diablo® III

Questions / Answers about Reflect Damage


Now... followup question. Would this mean, in theory, that physical resist should be one of the more valuable forms of resist in order to mitigate against RD monsters? This could be especially important for those monks who have decided to go OWE free.


Well I am stacking phys resist despite not using OWE, and it helps greatly with RD, not to mention most damage you take is phys anyways.

The type of damage reflected is the type of damage you are dealing.

If you equip a cold% SOJ and use an elemental neutral skill like tempest rush: tailwind on a reflect mob you will get chilled, same with deadly reach: foresight.


I just bought a cold soj, and found a reflect damage mob. I used deadly reach foresight and tempest rush tail wind on it with the soj equipped and I was not slowed. the type of damage reflected is physical bro
Edited by Seaboots#2209 on 12/6/2012 12:29 PM PST
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This is a great discussion, guys! Thanks for all of the great posts so far. Keep the information coming!

One quick question. LordRaahl mentioned that some affixes (namely Fast, illusion and health link) appear to magnify the effects of RD. Can someone verify, add to, and explain rationale behind a couple of them -- mainly Fast and health link.

Health link is dangerous in that it inflicts damage on monks, but it appears to be no different from any ground effect (arcane, plague, desecrator, molten) except that it is dodgeable. Does health link also have a direct effect on RD too?

Are there other affixes or monster types that appear to affect the "strength" of RD as well?

(I'm constantly updating the front page, so keep checking there to see if the information is accurate and let me know if I am missing anything. Thanks!)
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 12/6/2012 12:45 PM PST
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(I think you're thinking about Fire Chains, but typing health link)

Health Link causes all the members of the pack to share in the damage done, but I believe that LS only works on the portion of the damage done to the initial member being hit. So you take full RD damage, but are only healing about 1/3 of your normal amount.
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@Seaboots,
from what I've observed, the +%damage to _____, on several items cancel each others out,
hence why when I equip my Arcane SoJ, I take arcane damage on occasions, but when I put on WKL with it, I stopped seeing the arcane reflected.

@VrKhyz,
my personal 'break-even' point is what applies to me, in terms of breaking even, meaning the HP pools stands still while attacking RD.
How do you know it isn't so, when you're a self-found player (kudos) and have not been to MP10, let alone test them.

The flaw in math when it comes to RD, is because each pack you encounter, has a different set of armor and/or resistance, thus the damage they intake is different.

Math can't trump experiments and observations.
That's why there's so much arguments over any math-based discussions.
They simply can't agree that they're All wrong.
Look out! They've been circling for 6 months.

I used to do math too a couple months ago, until I realized it's a trap that will walk you circles, and does nothing to improve your progress of the game.
One can't evolve unless he leaves the trappings of 'logical thinking' behind.

- Sustain can't beat EHP when it comes to defensive, you need an equalized balance of both.
Having a massive amount of sustain and low EHP and you will still die, while having extremely high EHP and NO sustain, you will survive better.

==============================

@Nameless

- Idk how [Fast] works with RD, but from many monk experience reports and observations,
Fast increases the damage of the Reflect. Health Link returns more RD because as you attack one, you're damaging all 3, because their healths are connected. Illusionists also cause the Illusions to carry a small Reflect Damage, (unless recently hotfixed) and they all do a fraction of the elites' damage.
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Okay, let's focus on Health Link (and yes, Demiwraith - I totally confused health link with fire chains) right now.

From what I gather about Health Link, it shares the health pool according to however many monsters are in that pack (and still alive). So if there are 4 monsters, and each monster has 100HP, then the health pool has 400HP. If we do damage to one, the damage gets spread. So if we do 40 HP damage in total, it gets spread out to 10HP for each monster and we should get LS according to the 40HP damage dealt, and then the hit on HP would be spread amongst monsters... UNLESS LS is only calculated after the target of our hit absorbs the post-spread-out damage (of 10HP), which is what Demiwraith is saying (where LS is 1/3 or 1/4 of what RD is returning), I think.

Do I have an accurate description of what is going on? If so, then which scenario is correct? (1) LS & RD is calculated based off of total damage dealt to one monster and then the damage is spread amongst the others; or (2) LS is calculated off of the damage absorbed by the first monster (which is effectively 1/3 or 1/4 of the total damage dealt) while RD is calculated off of full damage dealth (100% of damage dealt)?

If it is scenario (1), then I fail to see how health link affects RD impact; if it is scenario (2) then I think that health link is disastrous for any player to come across who is counting on LS for sustain. Anyone test this empirically or is there any kind of definitive word about this?

Is there a 3rd scenario that I am missing? Or is my understanding of health link completely off base?
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 12/6/2012 1:45 PM PST
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My experience with the Fast affix (look, ma, no math!) is that it makes the mob do everything faster. Electrified triggers at a faster rate, they cycle through their spawning affixes (Desecrator, Arcane Enchanted, etc.) faster, they attack faster. etc. I can't see how this applies to RD, though, as I would guess that the trigger for getting damage reflected at you is your attacks, not anything the mob is doing. Might be bugged that way, though; might be a design flaw. I haven't noticed a problem with Fast in regard to RD.

@LordRaahl: Do you have a master list of armor/resistance/mitigations for various mob types? If so, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to see it!
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like I said, to figure that out for each mob type, would be impossible, at least for me.
because it is very hard to calculate precise mitigation to each monster type with Reflect Damage, as monsters will be attacking you too, and not stand still for you to attack, and they all have their unknown armor/resistances.
I would love to see that list as well, lol.

And also, the same monster types don't have the same stats,
one can see that from the HP differences in basic zombies in Inferno.
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I think we could try a few types, though, and come up with a decent list. All I'd need to do is load up a min=max weapon on, say, MP2, find elites, and attack them with white weapons. I know the average damage per attack, so I'll know what to expect when I hit them.

Tell you what: I've seen Skeletal Archers mentioned a couple times, so I'll test this in Act 1 (Festering Woods) and Act 2 (Vault of the Assassin) and report back here whenever I'm done.
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That would be awesome. Whatever results any of you compile, I'll be sure to update the first post with any findings.

Can anyone answer my question about the health link though? (several posts above)
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Bumping this post since this seems like where we're keeping some of our info on reflect damage.

Don't know if it's been mentioned in the Monk forums yet but this Blue post states that rare minions do more reflect damage than intended. This may account for some of the variation in RD effect observed by players. (we really don't know if the bug goes any deeper than that):
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7349425431?page=2#39

Additionally the way Health Link works in conjunction with Reflect Damage is a bug and not working as intended:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004694863?page=2#30

My feelings about them fixing this "bug":

:(

I also am not sure I like some of their proposed changes to RD (like having it work only periodically like shielding). I kinda like having to gear around these sorts of things. More and more, it seems they want you to focus on one number, DPS, as the sum total of your character. Oh, well.
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I think we could try a few types, though, and come up with a decent list. All I'd need to do is load up a min=max weapon on, say, MP2, find elites, and attack them with white weapons. I know the average damage per attack, so I'll know what to expect when I hit them.

Tell you what: I've seen Skeletal Archers mentioned a couple times, so I'll test this in Act 1 (Festering Woods) and Act 2 (Vault of the Assassin) and report back here whenever I'm done.

Well ... are you done yet?!?
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12/10/2012 11:15 PMPosted by Demiwraith
Bumping this post since this seems like where we're keeping some of our info on reflect damage

I'm trying to curate the front page to update with new information that people post in here. So yes, this might end up being the spot that we consolidate information on how to deal with RD in the monk community. :)
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only did read the initial Q/A.

20% relfected dmg isnt right, its 10% (well, 10,xyz% but i only did collect data for 1 hour, so i dont have enough data to verify the digits after the ",", but 10% is close enough). test it out and keep in mind that monks take 30% less dmg by default.
MP does NOT affect RD.

how to counter RD depends on your armor/resist setup as well, there is no definitive answer.

if your dmg mitigation from armor is 60%, then you would need to apply the factor 0.4 to the dmg you receive.
let A be the dmg factor from the armormitigation and let R be the dmg factor from the resistmitigation. being a monk will result in a 0.7 factor, because we take 30% less dmg by default.
then we get the following formula for RD.
10%*0.7*A*R=X
X being the % of your dmg you get reflected.

lets do a short example: lets assume you have 70% mitigation from resist (so factor is 0.3) and 60% mitigation from armor (so factor is 0.4) and lets assume you have 3% lifesteal.

10%*0.7*0.3*0.4=0.84%

3% / 5 = 0.6%

so you will have to cover 0.24% of your DPS output with other sustain like LoH/life per second, etc. lets assume you have a high effective dps output of 2mil. 0.24% of 2m is 4800.
so you would need 4800 health per second to negate the dmg your lifesteal didnt cover on the reflect.
so one example would be to have 800 life per second, 2 attacks per second and 2k LoH.

but then you only did negate RD totally, the other dmg from other affixes and the mobs themselves still remains.

thats how you calculate, how your specific gear could counter RD. tho determining your eDPS is a tricky thing, because of all the random factors, there is no simple formula for that.
doing timed azmo kills are an option to figure out single target eDPS and you can conclude about multitarget eDPS in a way then.
Edited by gReMLiN#1825 on 12/11/2012 1:15 PM PST
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