Diablo® III

Made a CM wiz... imba dude. just imba.

CM wiz IS imbalanced, but its sooo boring and repetitive, at least to me. There's a reason people call it 'piano' .Same with 0cd ZD build (seizure piano) for WD actually...when the whole endgame devolves into pressing one/two/three 2-3 times a second..I mean it's unbearable.

So yeah, WD most imba build isnt anywhere close to wiz or barb imba build. With that said, if you don't use CM on a wiz, it's not that much better than WD and certainly has less build variation, imo.
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@op u have build diversity in the wd classes tho, i will admit that resource management for wds still sucks despite improvements to wds

builds for wd for high lvl mps are as i understand it
zero dogs
zombie bears
acid rain

builds for wiz in high lvl mps are
cm wiz

builds for wiz that dont work are:
archon cant do mp8+ , need bis gear to do mp7
uberdeath build doesnt work
meteor centered build doesnt work
kite builds dont work
cause all of those build types suffer from resource problems/not enough kill speed

its the main reason y even archons have a cm/ww wiz setup

btw u forgot to mention that cm/ww requires 20 apoc and .8 loh for every 100k dps
oh and weve been nerfed 3 times in a row now as well, and will most def be nerfed again as good old wyatt is on record as sayin they dont like the synergy of wiz skills


There are a number of different ways to do a CM build. Just like Bears or acid they are just different "high mana spams" it's the same really. Using bears, or using acid doesn't have some mystical effect that makes it a totally different spec. That's like saying a CM build that uses worm hole, vs one that uses mirror is a totally different spec. The fundamentals of EVERY wd spec is exactly the same, with the exception of maybe zero dogs which requires that you gear up entirely for one spec at a very hefty price tag. (very dangerous to do in nerf land). You could build a kite spec w/a wiz, or a metor spec, or even a spectral blade spec but why would you CM/WW is just that much better then anything else. For the rest of the mp's because lets be honest here upper mp's are a waste of time. You can do pretty much anything you want.

PS my favorite part of this thread is the CM wiz's without witch doctors who came over here to defend there honor! HOW DARE THEE TALK ABOUT US ON THINE WD FORUM!
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 12/5/2012 7:17 PM PST
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Funny how I make a thread about how we should have a passive that reduces cooldowns by 1 sec like CM or some kind of mana on crit and the whole community here lashed out saying it was a bad idea and how WD need to be 'different.'

I just was running in MP 5 with 3 friends. The two wiz just steamrolled through content. Even archon was totally viable. With 4 p zuni, + mana and mana regen on my helm and off hand, blood ritual, bbv rain dance, sacrifice pride...mana was still really annoying. :/
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the most op thing about wd is that they share the same main stat as wiz and can switch over some of their gear lol.

Sayga I see your not even using storm armor yet... give it a try n prepare to !@#$ your pants bro
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Funny how I make a thread about how we should have a passive that reduces cooldowns by 1 sec like CM or some kind of mana on crit and the whole community here lashed out saying it was a bad idea and how WD need to be 'different.'


Probably because more and more people gear up they are finally getting what we have been trying to tell them all along.

If WW Barb / CM Wiz are OK in blizzards eyes, then WDs have serious problems.

If WW Barb / CM Wiz are OP, then perhaps we are not in such bad shape. (I will still argue we need some form of man replenishment that scales with gear).

To be totally honest, GF/GI are two of our best passives, and could probably solve our problems if they were tweaked somehow so they worked better in higher MP levels.

Say, rather than death / globes it was based on damage taken / damage dealt etc.
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I tried CM wiz build also before it was nerfed. It still does work and is still good...

What about our VQ???? Damn it.. VQ was soooo good and they made it useless and now WD has so many mana problems.

Just give WD's our VQ back..... I think that will make us WD's atleast on par with other classes....
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VQ was broken requiring the 4 skills on CD. I hated that. They just need to find a more creative and better way to support scalable resource management for WD's... scalable with gear which would allow it to be scalable for MP level.

I still just like the idea of changing a passive like VQ to be 'returns x% of damage done as mana' similar to life steal. That makes it so I don't have to run with a stupid primary and throwing out a jar every 4-5 bear casts and scales with gear/MP level.
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VQ was broken requiring the 4 skills on CD. I hated that. They just need to find a more creative and better way to support scalable resource management for WD's... scalable with gear which would allow it to be scalable for MP level.

I still just like the idea of changing a passive like VQ to be 'returns x% of damage done as mana' similar to life steal. That makes it so I don't have to run with a stupid primary and throwing out a jar every 4-5 bear casts and scales with gear/MP level.


It was kinda broken. But do you think they fixed it? I think it is more broken now... All you needed for your mana problems before was 1 passive skill. Now to make your mana be more effective, it requires you a full set...more passives and even an active primary skill.... It's just so sad when Blizz tried to make it look like they buffed us because of pets...

Truth is, we got nerfed reallllllyyyyyy bad when our class can't even contend with other top tier classes because well yeah...

It was fun when we could spam acid rain and bears non-stop. It wasn't even that OP.... Now we need so many things just to keep the rotation of bears going...
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Yes I agree that resource management for WD is broken. I just dont think 4 CD skills was the answer. There are plenty of better ideas and ways to allow resources to work correctly.
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I still just like the idea of changing a passive like VQ to be 'returns x% of damage done as mana' similar to life steal. That makes it so I don't have to run with a stupid primary and throwing out a jar every 4-5 bear casts and scales with gear/MP level.


If you followed D3 news while it was still in development, you would understand why our mana is how it is today (at least partially).

Originally, our dogs (which if im not mistaken were called monguls at the time?) would be summoned, and then you would be able to cast another spell on the dogs, to imbue them with power.

So basically before a fight started you could cast your dogs, then cast say Locust swarm on the dogs. Then during the fight, Locust swarm would spread to mobs, and you wouldnt need to keep casting it.

This meant the WD could cast its damage spells as supplemental damage.

I believe this is part of why our mana is an issue. We were designed to use it before fighting, and rely more on pets etc, but at some point they changed that concept, to be more like a standard wizard with pets but never looked at the mana implications.

At the end of the day, there is no problem with our mana. The problem is that other classes are basically given unlimited resources in some cases, and we are not.
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Old VQ with original proctor attacks of acid rain and zb would start to compare to CM-perma-freeze-wiz. "start"

Still don't have that level of crowd control
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Old VQ with original proctor attacks of acid rain and zb would start to compare to CM-perma-freeze-wiz. "start"


And you had to basically stack CC gear.

How much CC gear does a wiz have to stack.....
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At the end of the day, there is no problem with our mana. The problem is that other classes are basically given unlimited resources in some cases, and we are not.


no, there is def a problem with our mana, compared to other classes. like you said, other classes get infinte resources while we have to completly spec/gear for just for mana.

i would think there is a seriously problem with never knowing what using ptv is like. Like LITERALLLY NO WAY NO MATTER HOW MUCH MANA REGEN YOU HAVE, unless you want to spam primary or SB- SiW.

but glass cannon? awesome.

deep freeze? rediculous.

shock armor? amazing.

slow time? BBV but better, with less cd.

Meteors? Bears, but with better AoE. Meteor shower... seriously, i am having hard time finding better skill in game.

Cold blooded? Example of perfect passive. Like our bad medicine, BUT FOR DAMAGE.

sigh... i didnt even mention WW. oh well, you get the point.
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Yes I agree that resource management for WD is broken. I just dont think 4 CD skills was the answer. There are plenty of better ideas and ways to allow resources to work correctly.


...yeah like each CD gave you 10% more mana regen up to 40% (4 simultaneous cds).

and where they thought mana on kill was 'balanced' is most stupid thing ever. obviously they had to have an idea about MP levels a long time ago.

apparently it didnt occur to them that this is terribly unscalable for resource management.

look, i will say I am happy with MY wd. did some MP10 runs with both yesterday, my WD is still OP. but i have to sacrafice so much more potential dmg like ptv, etc just to make ends meet with mana (and it is close). thats using RoE, BR, AND SA/SV.

compared to spamming cloud of bats (which requires me to just hold down the '4' key), obviously wizards need to use more APM, yes, much like 0s zd build, but if its half as costly in gear and works twice as well, its something to at least consider.

i will be using both for testing until i can make some conclusions on the matter.

and for some reason all my gear has disappeared from my profile lol, from both toons.

go figure.
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Remember the last time you saw someone say "Man, I wish this uber group had a witch doctor..."?

Neither do I.

WD does need some efficiency love.
CM lets you ignore all uber mechanics.

Welcome to the dark side OP, only downside is you'll get hundreds of uber requests and no1 will ever let you just dps again.
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Remember the last time you saw someone say "Man, I wish this uber group had a witch doctor..."?

Neither do I.

WD does need some efficiency love.
CM lets you ignore all uber mechanics.

Welcome to the dark side OP, only downside is you'll get hundreds of uber requests and no1 will ever let you just dps again.


hahaha

thanks BDF, i know you a valuable poster on the wiz side...

appreciate your insight on the matter. just can't believe how easy life is on the dark side. its like d3 land became sesame street all of the sudden.

yeah ppl have been asking me to stunlock for them, Evilal3x for instance, since he got his '#2 dps skorn in the NA' - 1450dps 180cd 6%ls - wants me to stun lock for him while he bears everything.

all i want to do is make it rain meteors like a boss though...
Edited by SayGa#1564 on 12/6/2012 8:38 AM PST
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Lies!

WDs are fine!

LALALALALALALAL
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ppl should sticky this/recommend it so its gets seen by more of the community and the blizz forum folks.

i am curious if they would have a comment on the matter... but i doubt it.

i would give all my gear to charity to hear a blue say they are looking into addressing our mana regen issues at higher mps.
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Seems I have to roll a wiz... But first I need my DH to becom 60.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing my WD, but reading all this is... Well ... Not exactly motivating ;-)
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all i want to do is make it rain meteors like a boss though...


You can definitely do that, but if you want to totally drop twisters from needing to be used you need 2 sources of -5 AP cost to meteors and to have someone tank for you since you need to keep up the prism rune of diamond skin. I'm talking about meteor shower against a single target. Against multiple it's easy as hell to spam the crap out of that as long as there's something to hit.

And let me tell you, it looks and feels amazing. Sadly doesn't outdmg a well optimized SNS wizard in similar gear, plus you lose most of your CC since frost nova eats up an attack turn.

I'll make a vid when I can get on next, but in the mean time here's a cool one with the liquify rune on meteors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDyX8GbXtr8&list=UL

Though I do hope WD does well in pvp at least...I do think they're definitely one of the coolest classes ascetically, right up there with wiz.
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