Diablo® III

Made a CM wiz... imba dude. just imba.

I played a CM wiz for a few weeks. The perma freeze is awesome, but I could only do 2-3 runs before my fingers would start to hurt. I just don't see how people play 3-4 hours non stop on a cm wiz.

I'll sit here and enjoy MP10 without being in pain after i play.

Exactly how some people can run 20km marathons and some cant. Just takes getting use to.

I'm a mage myself. First few weeks I "spammed" the buttons. But now I press them in an ordered succession.
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Since I specialise in Cm/ww....

I'm pretty sure I'm qualified to say its OP. More so on Ubers. But sadly theres not much else viable to play at high MP. And low MP Archon farming is about as boring as the game can get after the initial excitement of lazer beaming things.

Alot of classes needs some major overhauling. And after playing a fair bit of WD lately, all I have to say is mana regen sux badly.
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spirit regen sucks too, it makes having a spirit spending attacks suck big time,
dhs are okay tho between bat companion and nightstalker they can keep enough of their resources to farm decently (highest mp i went on my dh though was mp5)
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Funny thing is, I bet WD is the only class that Blizz made that is working as intended.

Everything else I bet is some kind of unforseable scaling issue/build combination.


That may very well be the case. I tend to think that WD simpyl gets the least attention becasue its the least played class.

If above is correct, why not fix the unforseen scaling issues.

There is no way blizz intended to let Wiz's perma freeze bosses, yet they dont want to nerf them out of fear.
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I have to say they lock stuff down way better than I do but I definatly killed faster.

I did not feel out classed.

That was my experiance.


Im sure we are fairly competitive on damage in some situations, and superior in others.

However, can you jump into MP10 ubers solo, and simply freeze lock the bosses for the whole fight essentially removing all of the fight mechanics, and at the same time only getting hit maybe a few times.
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12/07/2012 05:57 AMPosted by Xarkar
simply freeze lock the bosses for the whole fight essentially removing all of the fight mechanics


Frost nova is absolutely part of the core for why CM/WW builds are so powerful.

Also, from the earlier comments about meteor with reduce AP cost etc... it sounds like the build is still adapting/improving. WD probably do have the most variety right now, we have TWO builds as opposed to one for every other class but none of those builds are all that adaptable. We've pretty much reached the limits.

"TWO" builds are
0CD sacrfice style (because its requires specific gear)
All others (doesn't matter what skill choices, it still is just cc/cd/int/vit/ar etc...) <-- all other classes really only have this.
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Im sure we are fairly competitive on damage in some situations, and superior in others.

However, can you jump into MP10 ubers solo, and simply freeze lock the bosses for the whole fight essentially removing all of the fight mechanics, and at the same time only getting hit NOT ONCE


Fix'd to apply to a well geared CM/

Also, meteor builds still only exist as a variant of the CM/WW wizard build...

They just don't return enough arcane power or proc critical mass enough to stand on their own.
Edited by BDF#1838 on 12/7/2012 6:50 AM PST
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Fix'd to apply to a well geared CM/


I was going to say that, but i figured someone would call me out on it, so i thought it safer to say a couple times =)
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Since I specialise in Cm/ww....

I'm pretty sure I'm qualified to say its OP. More so on Ubers. But sadly theres not much else viable to play at high MP. And low MP Archon farming is about as boring as the game can get after the initial excitement of lazer beaming things.

Alot of classes needs some major overhauling. And after playing a fair bit of WD lately, all I have to say is mana regen sux badly.


thanks APH, i know you are also well respected on the wiz side, thanks for the input, I def appreciate it.

i dont know what you mean about 'viable play', as I dont have much exp with a wiz, but honestly, i am having a lot of fun with my meteors build, and am able to solo mp8 rather fast with only 80k dps. the only thing that gets me right now if reflect dmg but again, blizz went on record saying they gonna nerf reflect anyways so...

yeah,

to me, this all speaks volumes about the imbalance going on here. its not to say i want nerfs or anything, cause i dont.

i just want ppl to understand that there IS imbalance currently with resource regen at higher MPs - its not even CLOSE.

this, coming from someone who ONLY played WD for like 6 months, gearing almost entirely for higher MPs once the patch hit, and after spending 2 days on a wiz im just like... wth.

yeah it take more apm, who cares though.

i think if ppl THINK for a moment about what OLD VQ was like, they would realize they were actually spamming SIX buttons constantly - 2 for AC/Bears and 4 to keep them all on cd... all at the same time.

thats a lot of button mashing dude, lest ppl forget ye olden days of diablo 3.

Also, meteor builds still only exist as a variant of the CM/WW wizard build...

They just don't return enough arcane power or proc critical mass enough to stand on their own.


i acutally disagree somewhat with this. i was testing this with blizzard/meteor shower and i was doing just fine with ap in MP7/8. not to mention i was AoE'ing everything into oblivion... and basically permafreezing at the same time.

seemed to work well with cc affixes on my gear like freeze and knockback and stun. cause blizz and ms have such a MASSIVE aoe that really all you need to to aim in general vicinity and watch as stuff just gets owned hard.

ps- doing insane dmg with tyreal might + sever (with os) and MW - blood magic + can never die due to health regen of 'slain enemies rest in pieces'.
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Im sure we are fairly competitive on damage in some situations, and superior in others.

However, can you jump into MP10 ubers solo, and simply freeze lock the bosses for the whole fight essentially removing all of the fight mechanics, and at the same time only getting hit maybe a few times.


i think we are a superior dmg dealer on lower mps, but frankly the wiz (while doing less dmg), will own you in SPEED.

for instance - most wd for speed farming use horrify - stalker, hex - angry chicken, and SW - jaunt.

on thh wiz side you have...

wormhole. is amazing, hands down.

then you have the armor rune (scramble?) that increases your movement speed whenever you are HIT. yeah HIT. so its not like that is ever cooldown dependent...

between the two (wormhole mostly), with cd reduction offhand for teleport and CRITICAL MASS. you basically can have unlimited teleports... that scales with MP.

seriously who is using grave injustice anymore for higher mps... its a joke skill at that point.
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12/05/2012 02:22 PMPosted by Brahm
But be warned if you think some of the WD's on this forum are childish.. CM wiz's can be some of the biggest bunch of babies in the game. Cry about everything even though they are beyond OP. Then If you dare say they suck there ego's flare up and they tell you how they are the greatest in the world. It's like a catch 22. Oh and don't you dare suggest it's possible to do mp10, or ubers without them.. Oh boy that's an earful waiting to happen lol. They don't understand how other classes work. They have specs that work for every MP, but cry about not having build diversity because every spec doesn't work for every MP.... oh if they only rolled a WD first lol.


Not all of us are that way, but I have seen quite a few that fit your description quite well... On occasion, I've been "that guy", too.

We could argue the cost/benefit ratio of putting together a wd vs. wiz (or any other class, really) and be at a stalemate for weeks. But I do know that I have a bit over two billion in my wiz right now, and while he can effectively and efficiently farm mp8, above that his dps is just too low to farm mp9 or 10. He can survive those mp's, for sure, but the fights are just too long. But yes, you can put together a CM/WW wiz for fairly cheap that will be effective up through mp5 or there about.

I just started my wd a few weeks ago. Having a blast with it so far. I certainly agree that wd needs some dev love; the token buffs wd has received the past few patches were a good start, but more is needed for sure.

No matter how well (or poorly) classes are balanced, there will *always* be those pointing fingers at the other classes, yelling "OP!!!! Nerf!!" or complaining about how their own class sucks. Just a part of the game.
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No matter how well (or poorly) classes are balanced, there will *always* be those pointing fingers at the other classes, yelling "OP!!!! Nerf!!" or complaining about how their own class sucks. Just a part of the game.


There will absolutely be differences between classes, with one always coming out ahead in a game like this.

However, there is no reason for one to be significantly better than the others.

There is absolutely no comparison to the farming speed of a RLTW barb in terms of efficiency.

There is no comparison between a CM wiz who can gimp any fight to a class that cannot.

Classes should feel different to play, but equally geared classes, should be (roughly) equal in power.

As it stands today that simply isnt the case.
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hmmm, this thread made me regear my wizard...

i could run mp8 NP with the chantodos i bought and some ASI ammy, gloves, some loh stuff and a storm crow....

bottom line, that shiz is all back in the AH. took me about an hour to remember why i retired my wizard in the first place. the playstyle just ain't to my liking, yo...

i had 3 character all nicely geared there, but i'm selling my wiz stuff again so i can get my gg manajumas, i'd much rather play my WD then go back to CM wiz
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hmmm, this thread made me regear my wizard...

i could run mp8 NP with the chantodos i bought and some ASI ammy, gloves, some loh stuff and a storm crow....

bottom line, that shiz is all back in the AH. took me about an hour to remember why i retired my wizard in the first place. the playstyle just ain't to my liking, yo...

i had 3 character all nicely geared there, but i'm selling my wiz stuff again so i can get my gg manajumas, i'd much rather play my WD then go back to CM wiz


I would agree to that mostly. I keep my CM wiz geared in case a group I am with would benefit more from a CM wiz. WD has always been more fun for me to play and I feel it takes a little more skill to use since I an not just teleporting to where I want and standing there until all is dead... I actually am dodging some of the arcane, desecration, etc while finding a spot on the wall that allows me to line up all my bears. (talking about MP9-10 mostly)

I don't sell my wiz stuff though. Occasionally I'll look for a cheap upgrade for her too... I sniped most of the gear that she is wearing now for under 40 mil total spent... can't really complain there. She also gets some of the hand me downs from my WD. (old inna's pants, witching hour, bracers, etc.)
Edited by ofgortens#1113 on 12/7/2012 10:37 AM PST
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Classes should feel different to play, but equally geared classes, should be (roughly) equal in power.

As it stands today that simply isnt the case.


BINGO.

+1

ps - my 80k dps wiz farms just slightly slower than my 220k unbuffed wd in mp7/8, and never has to worry about resources vs dmg buffs (they go hand in hand).

in terms of % dmg upgrades you can either skill for or equip, you have for a wiz:

conflag + CM + cold blooded + bone shell + time warp + glass cannon= 10 + 0 (lol) + 20 + 15 +20 + 10 = 75% ADDITIONAL DMG YOU CAN ADD ON TO BUFF YOURSELF REGARDLESS of your dps at any given time. and they all synergize with each other.

now, for wd:

BBV + PTV + Sacrafice (ftm)+ paranoia + hex = 20 + 20 + 20 + 10 (20 max) = 70%-80%, which is MORE in actuality BUT in PRACTICALITY (which is what matters), none of these dmg bonuses synergize at all with each other, in fact, assuming you use all of these abilites (which you couldn't), what spell could you even think of using at this point for dmg?

bbv and paranoia btw are some of the longest CD's IN THE GAME. hex only affect ONE TARGET. sacrafice requires 2 + skills/passives in addition to it. meanwhile...

conflag - free

boneshell (non existant cd) = free, 99% uptime + permafreeze

timewarp (non existant cd) = free, 99% uptime

glass cannon - 10% less RA/amor (boo hoo)

cold blooded - free

and all of those skills CAN be used together (and ARE) with some of the highest costing, and most dmging skills in the game.

imagine using bears with PTV and BBV (but wait, you now have to use the mana regen rune, dont forget...) and paranoia and hex on MP10 - LOLOLOL

would feel awesome for like 30s, and pointless for 90s. this NEVER happens as a wiz.

BLUE, PLEASE COMMENT... if you dare.

haha.
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However, there is no reason for one to be significantly better than the others.

There is absolutely no comparison to the farming speed of a RLTW barb in terms of efficiency.

There is no comparison between a CM wiz who can gimp any fight to a class that cannot.

Classes should feel different to play, but equally geared classes, should be (roughly) equal in power.

As it stands today that simply isnt the case.


+1 also more build diversity within classes would be nice imo

i dont know how SayGa is pulling it off but the meteor builds dont run that smoothly for me id rather just roll out my dh over trying to make meteors work
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BLUE, PLEASE COMMENT... if you dare.

haha.


they wont, they know they f'd up the design, monks have to use owe as a crutch, wizards have to use cm, dhs have to use gloom, im not sure what wds are forced to use, and barbs well they had the best passive design, it just took em a while to find out how to finesse it
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12/07/2012 12:54 PMPosted by SteelPhantom
i dont know how SayGa is pulling it off but the meteor builds dont run that smoothly for me id rather just roll out my dh over trying to make meteors work


lol behold!

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#lPXYgT!eWg!bbZZZZ

some things to note:

i have 3 pieces with meteor cost reduction and 28 APOC.
i have lifesteal chantodos (good with meteor).

am also testing arcane mines instead of blizzard, and obviously if you want to use WW its prob better than blizzard but again, I am in testing phase atm.

also, this:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#VPXhTY!eWg!YaaccZ

is kinda like the SNS meteor build standard, with shards instead of crystal shell, but regardless it works just fine.

you dont even need that high of attack speed since you are dishing out insane dmg all over the place. the amount of crit numbers i see all the time gives me a siezure almost.
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easy solution is to nerf the CM wiz, lol

yeah old vq was op but the fact that you had to spam CD spells was the reason many (including me, for example) hated it.

look, I understand that in the very endgame with top level gear you want a build that is as op as the most op build in the game, but that just speaks of CM wiz being way too powerful

cm wiz is the most op build in the game, period. its op to the point ubers arent relevant to them. ubers could do x200 damage and have no gloval effect on cm wiz.

looking for a build that can compete with cm wiz is basically looking to typecast a class into one cookie cutter build that just destroys anything. its easier to just nerf the cm wiz, but that will never happen at this point.
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Every class thinks every other class is much stronger.. the grass is always greener on the other side with you children. Check the other forums and see the same whinging going on. Grow up.
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