Diablo® III

Made a CM wiz... imba dude. just imba.

12/07/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Markness
Every class thinks every other class is much stronger.. the grass is always greener on the other side with you children. Check the other forums and see the same whinging going on. Grow up.


who the f are you? YOU grow up, mr 5k elites kills... total. go copy someone elses build and leave the adults to think for themselves.

what you said is completely false btw. there is no whining on wiz forum or barb forum, jack@ss.

and i am not whinning... or complaining...

i am merely speaking the truth.

respect.
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The only thing I dont understand is why everyone gets so upset about another classes abilities. It takes less than 5hrs to level a new character to 60.

If someones so OP.... join the club.
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12/07/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Markness
Every class thinks every other class is much stronger.. the grass is always greener on the other side with you children. Check the other forums and see the same whinging going on. Grow up.


What also gets me is anyone who played D2LoD for a long time, the whole point was to get to point gearwise so that you were op. Then use your character to find stuff so that you can create and equip all the other classes so they too would become op. It gave a big replayablity angle to the game. Tired of playing your sorc? Then play your Zon. Not into playing your Zon, then play your Necro... etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsToY8O7euY
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12/07/2012 01:37 PMPosted by grepman
easy solution is to nerf the CM wiz, lol


fyi - that's not at all the solution i want, or want ppl to think after reading this.

frankly no class needs nerfs, just make other skills more viable, or provide more SYNERGY between passives and skills.

AND fix PtV so its not impossible to use. if ptv gave you 15% dmg for 15-20% more mana cost THAT WOULD BE PERFECTLY FINE.

but instead 20/30 just ruins it completely and doesnt even make sense tbh.

explain how you use PtV with AC or Locust swarm... its not even close to possible.
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12/07/2012 02:06 PMPosted by Aphraell
If someones so OP.... join the club.


lol this is prob true to a certain degree, but what goes around, comes around.

and i intend to be there when it does.

(direct quote from Cajun Pawn) - AWESOME SHOW, LOL

ps - you are also forgetting that you need gear, besides a lvl60 character. but lets be honest. gearing for cm or ww isnt that much of an investment as long as you are fine with lower dps.
Edited by SayGa#1564 on 12/7/2012 2:19 PM PST
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12/07/2012 02:14 PMPosted by SayGa
easy solution is to nerf the CM wiz, lol


fyi - that's not at all the solution i want, or want ppl to think after reading this.

frankly no class needs nerfs, just make other skills more viable, or provide more SYNERGY between passives and skills.

there will always be a build that is better than any other build for a given difficulty, as skills in such games are pretty tough to balance using just theory.

ie, right now there is no other build for wizards (tbf, for ANYONE) that is remotely close to CM on high MPs.

and since, unlike say torchlight II, dIII is a competitive game, people naturally want to feel good by achieving the most powerful build there is.

so unless blizz makes an atomic-clock like precise balancing, there will always be ONE and just ONE op build people will compare to and strive for.

I liked what someone said about wd's working as intended
ww barb, cm wiz are op builds that if someone tried to bring up the rest of skills up to, will probably just ruin the balance even further.

cuz if you boost other builds, you can inevitably create some crazy op build that will then be the measuring stick for other classes to whine about, and so on
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@grepman

Havn't you figured it out yet man? Comparing and whineng IS the game...
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lol

honestly, I can agree that wd's could use some buffs here and there. like maybe up the base max mana, etc.

but I disagree with comparing everything to CM wiz, any class pales in comparison to it on high MPs, even barbs (from what Ive seen, at least)

buffing skills in d3 usually has two polar effects:
1) skill still sucks->buff almost useless
2) skill is better than most

in VERY rare cases the skill becomes marginally better as to actually be used moderately-ie, good buff.

dh's vault went from a meh skill used only for movement to an almost a must-have
(supposedly due to a "bug", but we know better) overnight

buffing everything in hopes that somehow players will synergize stuff can result in some crazy unexpected builds. its like letting a monkey press crapload of buttons on your keyboard in hopes some stuff gets re-arranged.

plus its not like blizz has shown it can plan ahead for anything DIII, except auction house.

it seems people want the op build. perfect solution is to bring original VQ back, call it different
and nerf the regen to 150%. we have two viable op builds now and everything is great. people who want to be top/best, can play piano with old vq mechanics and people who dont, can enjoy other builds.
Edited by grepman#1848 on 12/7/2012 2:57 PM PST
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i think we are a superior dmg dealer on lower mps, but frankly the wiz (while doing less dmg), will own you in SPEED.

for instance - most wd for speed farming use horrify - stalker, hex - angry chicken, and SW - jaunt.

on thh wiz side you have...

wormhole. is amazing, hands down.

then you have the armor rune (scramble?) that increases your movement speed whenever you are HIT. yeah HIT. so its not like that is ever cooldown dependent...

between the two (wormhole mostly), with cd reduction offhand for teleport and CRITICAL MASS. you basically can have unlimited teleports... that scales with MP.

seriously who is using grave injustice anymore for higher mps... its a joke skill at that point.


I have to chime in here for a sec, because I am getting upset. Let me start by saying that EVERY class has an extremely viable build for farming MP(whatever u can one shot stuff in).

1. WD: Super speed chicken
2. Monk: Tempest Rush
3. Barb: Perma haste
4. DH: Super fast flippies
5. Wiz: Perma Archon

What you are missing is that in this case, farming as fast as humanly possible at the maximum MP at which you can kill everything in one shot, Wizards are BY FAR the weakest (it is important to remember that what I mean by weak, in this context, is slowest).

Let me explain why by looking at the two "speed" skills u mentioned, i.e., scramble and wormhole. Scramble increase your speed for 3 secs when hit. I am just going to tell you this skill is MASSIVELY lackluster. As an archon wiz you rarely get hit, and it only lasts for three secs. Also this is our ONLY ms increasing skill so for the most part wizards are relegated to 25% max IMS. As for wormhole, which is an awesome skill btw, most Archon farming wizards dont even have this on their bar because we spend all our time in archon. We do have archon with tele, but thats one tele every 30 secs. (NOT AFFECTED BY CM), which does not provide nearly the mobility as the rest of the speed farming builds.
Edited by EigenVector#1828 on 12/7/2012 3:00 PM PST
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lol eigenvector you dont even know your own class. Wiz has way faster farming builds than archon. and wiz can do much higher xp/h than wd. u really have no clue
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Now to address your concerns about CM wizards, in particular...

I f I understand your original premise correctly, you have an issue with CM Wizards be very powerful in high MP and WD being underpowered in high MP. Right out of the gate I will state that I agree with you on the first count. Ubers (the true judge of a players EPEEN) are a breeze with a properly geared CM Wiz. For even more fun get two together (I call it double bubble trouble).

That being said, (and this is to reinforce the original posts from the good CM Wizards, Aphreall and Steelphantom) CM is the ONLY viable build for Wizards. We are chained to two stats over everything else, IAS and CC. Without these two things we (as a class) are completely useless. Also, like the best CM wizards out there will tell you, we also need MASSIVE EHP to have the effective dps and damage mitigation to run SNS, the build that makes wizards the OP class everyone thinks we are. Let me repeat what I just stated there: Wizards need both high crit chance and high increased attack speed, but we also need high vit/ar/armor. In short, we need everything. This translates to needing very expensive (BIS) gear. Once you get it, ubers die with ease, but for the average player (like myself) this is impossible.

Moreover, the entire build hinges on a gimmicky mechanic, i.e procing things via critical hits. Relying on crit procs will always put the viability of a build in the hands of the balance team, which (as we all know) SUCKS.

What makes WD's great ( I just started playing one so I am by no means an expert) is that they do not have any gimmicky mechanics. You can stack damage and damage mitigation in much more reliable ways. Also, because of having more reliable damage, more of the WD's skills are viable, leading to larger viable build diversity, and IMO a much more enjoyable play style.
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to be fair, WDs also have had gimmick proc crowd control builds back in the proc doctor era, which got nerfed. AC is still used by many as an LOH "potion", and so is Rain of Toads. WDs have two of the more powerful proc coefficients there are. This is balanced by the fact AC is the most expensive spell in our arsenal and RoT is a kinda lousy secondary that is only really good because of the stacking procs themselves (and maybe the fact it can shoot over walls)
Edited by grepman#1848 on 12/7/2012 3:27 PM PST
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lol eigenvector you dont even know your own class. Wiz has way faster farming builds than archon. and wiz can do much higher xp/h than wd. u really have no clue


I would love to know what this "better than archon" build is.
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12/07/2012 02:06 PMPosted by Aphraell
It takes less than 5hrs to level a new character to 60.


How the hell do you level up a character from 0-60 in 5 hrs?
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12/07/2012 03:46 PMPosted by ofgortens
How the hell do you level up a character from 0-60 in 5 hrs?


Cain's set + helfire ring + a level 60 friend doing MP10
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12/07/2012 03:39 PMPosted by EigenVector
lol eigenvector you dont even know your own class. Wiz has way faster farming builds than archon. and wiz can do much higher xp/h than wd. u really have no clue


I would love to know what this "better than archon" build is.


u can check my wiz profile. 90mil+ xp/h. with high plvl, I think I can tweek my gear to get close to 100mil+ xp/h.
Edited by ChuckNorris#1885 on 12/7/2012 4:12 PM PST
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there will always be a build that is better than any other build for a given difficulty, as skills in such games are pretty tough to balance using just theory.

I liked what someone said about wd's working as intended
ww barb, cm wiz are op builds that if someone tried to bring up the rest of skills up to, will probably just ruin the balance even further.

cuz if you boost other builds, you can inevitably create some crazy op build that will then be the measuring stick for other classes to whine about, and so on


How do you know that? Whose to say it won't improve things overall?

The ingenuity of D2LoD was give every class the feel of owning a game THAT ONCE OWNED THE PLAYER and then... give everyone a chance at having Enigma.
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12/07/2012 03:39 PMPosted by EigenVector
lol eigenvector you dont even know your own class. Wiz has way faster farming builds than archon. and wiz can do much higher xp/h than wd. u really have no clue


I would love to know what this "better than archon" build is.


•No-Spinup Healing Blade Build: Another low-MP rush build, this time taking advantage of both Spectral Blade and Storm Chaser (remember that rune?) to proc CM and toss out SC's super-tornadoes.

Uses Wormhole -Teleport and Storm Armor -Scramble .

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7199910399
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12/07/2012 04:06 PMPosted by ChuckNorris
u can check my wiz profile. 90mil+ xp/h. with high plvl, I think I can tweek my gear to get close to 100mil+ xp/h.


I don't mean to be a d**K, but I highly doubt your current build:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#lQjTWS!Wad!YZYYYZ,

could even touch a perma archon build. I mean for god sakes you are using power hungry. I am going to assume this is a troll.
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there will always be a build that is better than any other build for a given difficulty, as skills in such games are pretty tough to balance using just theory.

I liked what someone said about wd's working as intended
ww barb, cm wiz are op builds that if someone tried to bring up the rest of skills up to, will probably just ruin the balance even further.

cuz if you boost other builds, you can inevitably create some crazy op build that will then be the measuring stick for other classes to whine about, and so on


How do you know that? Whose to say it won't improve things overall?

The ingenuity of D2LoD was give every class the feel of owning a game THAT ONCE OWNED THE PLAYER and then... give everyone a chance at having Enigma.

I dont know that, this guess is based on observations from the way things have been in D3, specifically 1.04 skill changes and beta changes.

blizz had tons of time, beta, etc. to balance things. all the time in the world and yet they missed some extreme, game-changing skills that allowed for exploit. they fined-tuned skills that couldve been left alone and left skills that were game-changing until they were deemed overpowered (ie wizards armor rune in the first several weeks or dh's smokescreen).
Edited by grepman#1848 on 12/7/2012 4:54 PM PST
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