Diablo® III

[Request] Combined Community Monk Patch Note

12/06/2012 08:46 AMPosted by LegitBeastin
The nerfing of the cookie cutter build skills are unnecessary. They're not OP, all the other skills are just underwhelming.


One must appease the Blizzard Beast to reap the other rewards.
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yea, you got that right. This is a diplomatic adjustment-appeal, can't ask for all buffs without the appearance of nerf suggestions.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Edited by Druin#1518 on 12/6/2012 3:06 PM PST
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- Druins, you ever looked at the "math" of ALL classes right now? tell me if they're all balanced and done for the sake of mathematics. That's why they buffed Seven Sided Strike to 1777% damage from 777%, ALL FOR THE SAKE OF THE LORE.
Mathematics is useless in the higher ends of game. How do you know Your math is balanced and accurate?
These are visionary suggestions, the developers will do their own math on them.
We provide ideas, not mathematics. And that's why for 6 months, math's done nothing got us no justifiable buffs.

- Adding teleport to all FoT runes would make it another training wheel for noobs.
We're trying to move up the scale consciousness and pvp tactics, not to accommodate those without skills.

- Lightning Flash buffed to 20% dodge is right, because all dodge runes are 20%, Wall of Wind, Blinding Speed, etc. Making it any higher than 20% is overkill, because with Lightning Flash, one can already cause Backlash to proc at much higher rate.

- FoF is the only synergy that allows a certain build.
what do you mean superior or inferior? that's just your personal opinion, and doesn't apply here. I've seen plenty of monks that swear by FoF over anything else.
there's no such thing as superior or inferior here. You should play this game for the sake of the Art of being a Monk, rather than mathematics calculations to see how fast you kill stuff,
that's solitaire, not diablo 3.
Looking at the damage and "efficiency" point is a Beginner's point of view.
We are looking at aspects of Challenge, Control, Style, Lore, and individual tactics.

- don't expect straight buffs without giving up something, it's the balance of trade-off and a win-win situation.
Also the suggested nerfs to certain skills are to make sure we crucify ourselves before they do so,
because the statistics on the monk skill usage are raking up, and pretty soon it's gonna end up like DH's Caltrops, or Wizard's Energy Twister.
This would reduce the usage of cookie cutter skills, encourage monks to explore the horizons, thus increasing their skills and awareness.

- These suggested changes are done with the philosophy of keeping the original Blizzard ideals intact, without massive changes to the mechanics.
Math doesn't come into the equation here, the devs can do math themselves.
And for half a year Math couldn't explain Reflect Damage, nor can it demystify Resolve.
that's why The System is in a perpetual state of confusion, because every mather thinks his math is correct.
Edited by LordRaahl#1733 on 12/6/2012 12:29 PM PST
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TC could teleporting can be improved, imo.

it's a TELEPORT, but you can not between levels, over holes, carts, etc...
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the suggestion to a method of 'self-controlled' teleport, is a blessing in disguise for those of us who use Echoing Fury.
And anyone who swears by EF, would know how much of a PiTA it is when fighting Molten affix with Thunderclap.
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the suggestion to a method of 'self-controlled' teleport, is a blessing in disguise for those of us who use Echoing Fury.
And anyone who swears by EF, would know how much of a PiTA it is when fighting Molten affix with Thunderclap.


pardon my ignorance, but can't the same effect as staying in a fixed place be done by holding shift and LMB while the mouse is not on the enemy, but on you.

I do it all the time!

I only teleport when I move the over an enemy. When I don't want to teleport i just hover the mouse on or right near my character.
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12/06/2012 12:06 PMPosted by Druin
That is the fault of all the bad runes.
The munk in a nutshell.
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Edited by Druin#1518 on 12/6/2012 3:06 PM PST
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No and No!

There is no reason to REDUCE the power of current monks. Thunderclap is used by almost everyone and monks STILL have trouble competing with other classes ... how would nerfing it help that?!


+1
@OP, do you expect monks to take you seriously by asking Blizzard to nerf FOT? Simple logic, buff the other spirit generators to be on par with FOT...
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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You should play this game for the sake of the Art of being a Monk, rather than mathematics calculations to see how fast you kill stuff,
that's solitaire, not diablo 3.
Looking at the damage and "efficiency" point is a Beginner's point of view.
We are looking at aspects of Challenge, Control, Style, Lore, and individual tactics.


Oh sorry, I did not know that your version of fun was better than mine!
Because subjective condescension is always the best way to respond to criticism!

In that case I will simply offer this up:
Blizz, if you are reading this, please remember that many of your customers want logically implemented content and would sincerely prefer a "buff undervalued skills" approach over a "nerf balanced skills" approach to this logical progression!


Peace.

-Druin, the happy monk
Edited by Druin#1518 on 12/6/2012 3:11 PM PST
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I can't for the life of me understand why you are asking for so many nerfs. Barbs get so many free stats that I see no reason to nerf most of the monk abilities you listed. Just buff the ones that nobody uses and move on. I really don't think anyone is complaining about monks being op while barbs and CM wizards exist in their current states.

Also, a new offensive monk passive would be nice. Every other class has more offensive passives, and better ones at that. For example, barbs and DHs can get 15% increased damage or 50% free crit damage. Monks have very few options. One of the reasons that most people stick to Resolve/STI/OWE is that there aren't really other viable options in high monster powers (unless you have godly gear).
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First I would like to say this must have taken some time and effort, which is not overlooked or unrecognized so understand that :)

To begin with, sample size of 300 dedicated monks is misleading, to the point of irrelevance, this is my opinion and why. This is a very small sample size, and simply playing your monk and being "dedicated" does not mean any of them have the qualifications or understanding of game designing, this is like saying because I interviewed 300 people who live/work in a building (dedicated), that their suggestions are equivalent to that of an architect. I could go more in to depth as to why the suggestions of 300+ players should be taken with a heavy dose of salt, but my point is less to invalidate the overall public outreach but only to put it into perspective that this is a small sample size, and should be seen as potential concerns of the community.

I also believe that this was conducted within somewhat of a vacuum, most of this assumes that the game is but a single class and its interaction in that game. These suggestions clearly do not take into consideration the way other classes perform within the game. In essence the balancing only looks at the monk, and the capabilities and performance of the monk. If the Monk were to be considered at the top of the class food chain, many of these recommendations would be just as erroneous.

This is like a crab. This is not forward motion. This offers possible diversity at no real net gain. Instead of being able to have at least one viable build, you offer us, 25 sub performing builds. In short, the diversity offered by this is that there are still 4 other classes that do it better. To ignore what is occuring with other classes and their performance in a game that will have PvP shows a lack of foresight and understanding of the game as a whole, beyond your niche.
Edited by Enot#1820 on 12/6/2012 1:45 PM PST
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Let it not be about personal opinions of each others style, instead let it be about improving the monk and giving reasoned suggestions.

Everyone should realize, that a true class comes about as the culmination of both mathematical balance with the rest of the game, as well as fluidity in style and concept.

There can be no buffs without nerfs in the view of time. Do not resist this, it will only serve to weaken you eventually because you are afraid of letting go.

Be as One, good monks! :)
Edited by Nocturnal#2168 on 12/6/2012 1:49 PM PST
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12/06/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Nocturnal
There can be no buffs without nerfs
Barbs
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Be sheep
Edited by Enot#1820 on 12/6/2012 1:56 PM PST
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Good job putting this all together Raahl.

I like alot of what you have done here. I do worry about nerfs to the cookie cutter though. Although the snapshotting of SW is prone to abuse, for those that do not wep swap or gear swap to boost, using only FitL and BW to boost it, or even DR:Foresight and CS it ONLY puts us ALMOST on par with barbs dps output, NOT ahead.

For any nerf to FoT/SW to occur, including snapshotting dps for SW, some serious and well thought out buffing to overall dps output has to occur, or monks will be permanently relegated to the role of barbarian's ugly cousin.
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No and No!

There is no reason to REDUCE the power of current monks. Thunderclap is used by almost everyone and monks STILL have trouble competing with other classes ... how would nerfing it help that?!


+1
@OP, do you expect monks to take you seriously by asking Blizzard to nerf FOT? Simple logic, buff the other spirit generators to be on par with FOT...


This is a problem, fear of change blocks choices that needs to be made.

Thunderclap has too much of everything. First we must make sure our abilties of the class, internally, are in balance, then we must seek to raise or lower the overall external balance to match that of other classes.

First things first, nerfs where nerfs are called for. Thunderclap is out of line, it must be slapped. I fell in love the first time i saw it, before it knew its mathematical power, yet you see me saying this now. I have all intentions to make a build using this after it's nerfed, but it has too much of everything, it must be nerfed. Stop resisting improvement to your monk class, do you really want to be so singular purpose??

I can't for the life of me understand why you are asking for so many nerfs. Barbs get so many free stats that I see no reason to nerf most of the monk abilities you listed.


We are monks, we do not define ourselves through others, we seek knowledge of who we are! Focus on the monk class, and let the barbarian deal with its own issues. Why not set an example, instead of balancing all to the weakest level?
Edited by Nocturnal#2168 on 12/6/2012 2:08 PM PST
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Stop fighting each other. This is the worst place you can do it, for everyones sake. If you have nothing to add here, find another post and troll away in that.

Have something to say if you post here before you ruin the purpose.
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+1
@OP, do you expect monks to take you seriously by asking Blizzard to nerf FOT? Simple logic, buff the other spirit generators to be on par with FOT...


This is a problem, fear of change blocks choices that needs to be made.

Thunderclap has too much of everything. First we must make sure our abilties of the class, internally, are in balance, then we must seek to raise or lower the overall balance of all to match that of other classes.

First things first, nerfs where nerfs are called for. Thunderclap is out of line, it must be slapped. I fell in love the first time i saw it, before it knew its mathematical power, yet you see me saying this now. I have all intentions to make a build using this after it's nerfed, but it has too much of everything, it must be nerfed. Stop resisting improvement to your monk class, do you really want to be so singular purpose??


Quick if you don't accept all these things, you must not want any changes for the monk class... EVER.
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