Diablo® III

[Request] Combined Community Monk Patch Note

12/06/2012 03:05 PMPosted by Fitz
If you think it is OP though, fine. What does that have to do with FOT/SW?

Exactly, if the OP thinks EP is overpowering than why not nerf it... Wow, simple logic seems to go out of the window...
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I read the forums daily, since Beta—specifically the Monk forum in its entirety—but I never post because honestly it's more fun reading.

Firstly, as Druin stated, the majority of your changes are terrible. You're posting suggestions based on nothing but your own concepts. Clearly, concepts that you didn't flush out, synergize or work on mathematically. No Monk worth their salt would agree with the majority of the nerfs you have listed. (Let's not even start on the super obvious issues you've left out completely!)

Secondly, and more importantly, to sell this post to Blizzard—specifically, Vaeflare—as if you really did research and you're speaking for the entire Monk community is just ridiculous.

I have close to a thousand hours in the Monk (including Beta) and cultivate friendships with many of the "dialed in" Monks who are better than me. I asked them about your supposed "survey" and strangely, none of them were included.

So, of the 300 surveyed, surely you kept a source list of BattleTags and dates, like a proper researcher would, right? Or is this one of those other kind of surveys? You know, the kind where you talk to two or three random friends and then just fill in the blanks with your own weird desires?

Really bad post.

this, 9000 times this.
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nice ideas , hope the will be seen and implemented .
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12/06/2012 02:47 PMPosted by LordRaahl
say that to the millions of monks who are sworn to One With Everything.
/How about the millions who are sworn to TC and the many other cookie cutter skills you want to nerf?

BTW that OWE nerf post I made was joke parodying all those people who want to nerf the munks popular skills for the soul reason of those skills being popular(If they're popular they must OP right?). I don't believe in PVE nerfs unless it's a invulnerability exploit.
Edited by LegitBeastin#1971 on 12/6/2012 3:26 PM PST
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12/06/2012 02:47 PMPosted by LordRaahl
They want true class balance, the devs don't care about how your perform, or what the cookie cutter is. They have a statistics sheet that they go by, and the cookie cutter show very high player usage, it will be adjusted inevitably.

High usage because the other skills are so flawed, your answer to the problem is to split the difference.

Your logic of explaining Monk's being above par with exploding palm, then offering up non-related skills to be nerfed is insanely flawed.

Nothing explained in your posts offers any direct explanation of why something should be nerfed other than "well we have to nerf stuff to get other things". That isn't true.

All this logic is born out of is the inability to express correctly and with empirical data why buffs (and yes nerfs if necessary) should occur. So instead of actually building a strong case, you fall back on, well maybe they will listen to me if I give them something in exchange. It's weak and for someone caught up in the way of the monk, and for all your lore loving (which is great) you just sound like some slithery snake, instead of some beacon of truth willing to go to the mat over factual information and the true distress of the class.
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if that's your first post, then you just ruined your first impression by reeking it with envy, ignorance, and sarcasm. Perhaps you should return to lurking as you normally did, it might save us the agony of seeing your insecurity.

- my method of research was to use the in game lobby, talk to monks about their ideas of skills they would like to be buffed / nerfed. Then Relog, and repeat. And then join public games in the days before MP, and asked questions and took notes.
Then switch to EU server, and repeat the process.

The monks that disagreed with the Nerf to Thunderclap, were just like the Demon Hunters that disagreed with the nerf to the abuse of Caltrop's Life On Hit proc.
History is simply going to repeat itself, whether one agrees or not.

The monks that gave a lot of suggestions, were the ones that had more experience and knowledge in other builds, and/or Hardcore mode.

And I'm sure the entire community of monks would agree on one ground.
--> they'd rather it's Thunderclap that's nerfed, than One With Everything.

And as far as the other changes to the skills,
an expert in Tempest Rush such as Druin, would be able to see what's really going on here. ;)

Now about the "selling" to CM, you've got that wrong. This is a researched compilation of unbiased documentations. In which The System asked that it be posted so that they can reviewed and suggest to devs in our favor.
So your blasphemy and condescension of their honor, is clearly a lack of respect. ;)
In which you're better off going back to lurking and not post at all.

gratz on close to 1000 hours,
I'm still working on my 2100th.
Edited by LordRaahl#1733 on 12/6/2012 4:00 PM PST
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I totally disagree on this. If this is a combined community patch note, I really question who the "community" in question is. I definitely don't remember asking for these changes. I agree skills can be buffed to improve diversity. But I definitely don't agree with all the nerfs to the cookie cutter build. Yes, certain things could be nerfed but not the build. Basically what you are doing is nerfing every single skill in the cookie cutter and buffing everything else. IMHO that's just stupid. Nerf certain things and leave others as it is.

FoT - TC nerf: Sorry but you are basically dropping the rune's purpose by half. From 35% to 20%. That's almost half the damage. You must remember that with FoT, we already lose out on the range of DR, AoE of CW and damage of WotHF (140% compared to 110%)

Blinding Light: no problem with the nerf. It's manageable. However, the other runes still ain't good enough for me to want to switch.

Breath of Heaven: I've always wanted this skill to be changed to % of total life and a bigger AOE. This skill is practically useless in team play if you are the only melee character in your group. Again, nerf here is manageable.

Serenity - Ascension: I think the 4 seconds is perfect as it is. Requires no changes.

SW: Cyclone: Again, no problem with this nerf as you've kind of buffed the basic skill by increasing the radius. Inner storm should have 1-2% LS instead of life regen to be consistent with the animation. Getting life back from the storm seems more apt. Good suggestion on the fire storm change.

MoC: Overawe: Leave it at 24% extra damage but nerf it down to 2 seconds @ 48%.

I think another suggestion I have with regards to the monk is to make them a little more unique. With skills like Inner Sanctuary and Wave of Light, let those skills create a temporary physical dome (i.e. 1 second) that disallows mobs from coming in or moving out. So if you cast things like 7SS within that time, you will only target mobs in that dome. This could also work if Wave of Light's bell remained there for awhile and if you re-cast it within that window, the new bell would destroy the old bell, causing certain % of additional damage.
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And I'm sure the entire community of monks would agree on one ground.
--> they'd rather it's Thunderclap that's nerfed, than One With Everything.

I'm sorry, but the community as whole don't want any kind of nerfing, where did you get this idea that they would rather nerf this skill and gain on the other skills... If Blizzard wants to nerf things than thats their problems.. TBH, they're just cutting their own throat by nerfing, look at the state of D3 atm...
Edited by maximus#1400 on 12/6/2012 3:44 PM PST
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I think that LPSS should be a main skill for monks, making it an original skill for the build. Skirting the other skills for the other builds. As well as making diabo's more powerful so that monks can have a unique end game build.Let the big boys play with the axes,monks play with the arts....
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@ Raahl

When you preface a post as if you're speaking for the entire Monk community—as brazen and ridiculous as that sounds—you ought to be ready for criticism.

I ruined my impression with you, but not with anyone else. My friends know I'm not here to tell stories, talk smack or "play a character" on the forums. And hey, I know that last one is your thing and it's cool. I don't have a problem with it.

What I do have a problem with, unfortunately, is that you're claiming to speak for me, and some of my friends when you never asked any of us for our opinions.

Am I not one of the community you claim to speak for? How about the other 10-something Monks I spoke with this afternoon—all very much attached to the class—who weren't included in your survey?

As an aspiring writer, you should know this one (although I'm sure you're Googling it):

“Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.”

Words to live by if you're gonna put yourself in the spotlight.
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12/06/2012 03:45 PMPosted by WhiteWizzard
I think that LPSS should be a main skill for monks, making it an original skill for the build. Skirting the other skills for the other builds. As well as making diabo's more powerful so that monks can have a unique end game build.Let the big boys play with the axes,monks play with the arts....

Then shouldn't they make fists more powerful too? Since fist weapons are unique to monks anyway. 1 mistake I feel Blizzard made is to make daggers faster than fist weapons. They should have put fist weapons as the fastest weapons to set them apart.
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It's true, if this thread was meant to represent the average monk's point of view, then no, it certainly does not represent mine.

Monks need buffs. We've been nerfed so many times already. Every time I play with my friends, we all agree that monks are not up there with other classes in terms of offense.

And please no nerf to our defense, as it is the only thing right now that sets us apart from the other classes.

I have nothing against the OP, but like other posters here have said: I just want to make it clear that the OP does not speak for me.
Edited by QBBQ#1397 on 12/6/2012 4:03 PM PST
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Well on fists you can get end game abilitiesI do have a set of shenlongs with LPSS as well as crit damage and socket. Diabo's just need a little push in that direction.Flying dragon has some great abilities but it is not comparable to end game skorn , echoing fury. Its close as I have one that does 180 crit with socket but not having a third ability such as loh, ls or lpss it jut doesn't make it to to finish line.
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12/06/2012 04:02 PMPosted by QBBQ
I have nothing against the OP, but like other posters here have said: I just want to make it clear that the OP does not speak for me.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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You made a fantastic first impression with me! :D

12/06/2012 04:02 PMPosted by QBBQ
I have nothing against the OP, but like other posters here have said: I just want to make it clear that the OP does not speak for me.
Edited by Druin#1518 on 12/6/2012 4:11 PM PST
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Bleh. I wish I felt like typing an essay right now, a lot I would like to say here..but I missed 3 pages and simply CBF to do so :D.
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When I read all the changes I smiled at the many new posibilities the changes could bring, very fun ideas and interesting effects ( specially team based buffs) , I could totally see me testing/switching different runes all over like the first time I learned the class.

Also I love the mobility buffs of tempest rush and dashing strike, I feel with those changes we could rival without problems any other class in mobility.

Also all of the nerfs suggested are minimal guys to be honest, its not something drastical like reducing xxx thing to 0, and besides we will gain lots of new and potent choices.

I think you only missed Implosion rune for Cyclone Strike.

I support this !
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Wow, LordRaahl is like a bull in a chinashop, charges in and BAM, broken china everywhere :(

I think he means well, but the execution is not so good.
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Cyclone - reduce each cyclone's damage by to 15%, down from 20%, to line up with 1 stack of sweeping wind. Give tornados new animation.

Ok I don't agree with this because you said with FOT last rune it the last rune in the set should be more powerful ? Well cyclone the last rune why nerf it? I think they need to make new passive combine STI / fleet footed cause monk run really slow outside of TR build I really would like to see some Mobility I don't think barbs are op I feel there skills and passive all blend well together all I'm looking for is the samething with monk I don't want to step on barbs toes but I don't want them stepping on mine barb is the mega offensive class big dps unstoppable I like that monk is a balance of defense and offense and speed so I ask blizzard to give me that speed is lacking dps for monk is good when your gear is godly I do 221k unbuffed full buff 499k and I use Wkl so my dps is nuts but I would really like to see Mobilty work on I need to feel like I'm a monk not a slow version of a pally in d2 sweeping winds is the new hammers but that how I feel I like the monk class focus on the passive and Mobilty the runes are fine
Edited by FHvoids#1401 on 12/6/2012 4:16 PM PST
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