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These are the skills that the research proposed a nerf to.
- Thunderclap(15%), Blazing Wrath(5%), Faith in the Light(5%), Cyclone(5%), Overawe(8%-16%)
As for buffs, read the note again.
I am a Taurus afterall. ;)
Edited by LordRaahl#1733 on 12/6/2012 4:19 PM PST
Pff guys dont ruin this chance to be heard please, not everything on here is written in stone, lets keep this constructive.
I PROPOSE THIS FORMAT FOR THE FOLLOWING POSTS:
1- WHAT I LIKED
2- WHAT I DISLIKED
3- WHAT WOULD I ADD
4- RESPECT TO OTHER MONKS
Edited by Colt#2370 on 12/6/2012 4:59 PM PST
Colt, Druin did a pretty good job of already explaining what the issue is. Rahl is presenting the information, if he wants to be taken seriously by those of us who disagree he needs to start by showing some understanding and numbers behind things.
Simply stating some %'s of reduction shows how superficial the analysis is in regards to how it will play out. This is still being looked at in a vacuum, even within the dynamics of how these things play together for monks. Let alone as I and others have pointed out how these compare in a multi class environment.
Like I did begin with, in my first post, you have spent a great deal of time on this already, if you want to be more than just a pigeon with a message you may want to take more time as Druin had pointed out (numbers numbers numbers), examine the suggestions that your "community of 300" gave you and actually look at what it means to both the class and to Diablo3 as a whole, before trying to pass this off to the rest of the community as if it's the rest of the community.
Otherwise likely this will just turn into an even more muddied mess of some good and other random suggestions.
Edited by Enot#1820 on 12/6/2012 4:44 PM PST
1- WHAT I LIKED=
You didnt like anything?
2- WHAT I DISLIKED=
You dislike everything?
3- WHAT WOULD I ADD
You wouldnt add anything?
4- RESPECT OTHER MONKS
You disapprove the poster?
If thats all you have to say, then lets move on to other comments.
Please keep the feedback coming.
Edited by Colt#2370 on 12/6/2012 5:01 PM PST
1- WHAT I LIKED=
4- there is a lack of factual knowledge and understanding of the synergy between skills in the original post, this needs to be addressed so either, Rahl can say "I told you so" or we can revisit what changes should actually be recommended.
Thus far the reasoning has been comparing unrelated skills as justification. Using poor logic of trying to sell buffs by taking nerfs, amongst other innane explanations of word smithery.
Rahl has demonstrated that he can test skills as they are presented in his other numerous threads, this is showing us that he requires the skills to be developed prior to him having a way to grasp and understand them, I do not want to wait for these changes to go in, so he can test them and go "uh guys I kinda, the monk class"
1- WHAT I LIKED
2- WHAT I DISLIKED
3- WHAT WOULD I ADD
Give it a go on a brief format, lets put order to this.
Edited by Colt#2370 on 12/6/2012 4:57 PM PST
I'm not sure what you were thinking asking for nerfs to every popular Monk rune. I can only assume that you're trying to bait other players to say something that will get them banned.
As for the rest of your suggestions, Monk needs some radical changes to its other skills and runes so that we have worthwhile build alternatives. Boosting a little bit here and there won't make a difference.
The idea behind Combination Strike of encouraging the use of multiple spirit generators is a good one. Having more Monk passives that encourage combined skill usage might be one way to go. Barring that, increasing the potency or even just the duration of runes when using Combination Strike should be considered, as should modifying at least one rune per spirit generator to be appealing in a combination strike build. So far, only Fists of Thunder, Foresight, and Blazing Fists are borderline useful with combo strike. We could use more options than that, and each of those runes should offer some sort of bonus when used in a combo strike.
Following my own suggestion heres my feedback:
1-WHAT I LIKED
-I liked mobility suggestions from Dashing Strike and Tempest Rush ( I feel we are a little behind atm in mobility effectiveness/cost compared to other classes skills like wizard teleport or barbarian movement speed skills, Monk movement speed skills still cost a lot and its hard/tricky to maintain them for a long period)
-I liked the suggested changes in spirit generators, specially elemental dmg diversification related to skill color ( aside from aesthethics, maybe when PvP arrives elemental damage can play a nice part since enemies would have to protect against a certain element type more than other).
-I like the idea of reinforcing the skill functionings with their respective names, like buffing range from Deadly Reach- Strike from Beyond
-I liked the buff to party/group skills, specially healing and other alternatives on offensive group buffs too.
2-WHAT I DISLIKED
-Some of the changes would require some testing and balacing, since the values dont seem quite right at first glance. For example:
Pillar of the Ancients - increase Pillar of the Ancient's damage to 350% both hits, up from 280%, combining to be a total of 700%. Increase time between pillar and its explosion to 4 seconds, up from current 2 seconds. Thus grants to ability to summon a row of temples before they explode.
We still dont know for sure how stacking Pillar towers would result, specially with an increased timer.
3-WHAT I WOULD ADD
-Movement speed bonus granted with dashing strike always seemed conflictive to me, since mostly all of the times after a succesful dash you will be engaging the enemy ( unless you completeley ignore it), and engaging means you will stay in just one place ( lets say around 20 yards size) and under that circumstance you arent taking a real advantage of the acquired movement.
-Therefore I would add first an extended time duration to the bonus, of 7 seconds from 3 ( even more if possible, hell barbs have 50% sprint for 5 seconds already without any targeting required).
So the buff can be sustained for a longer period after every engagement.
-Secondly I would increase the distance dashed while theres no enemy to target ( If there are no enemies around this skill is almost useless) Maybe the distance dashed could be increased further by movement speed or attack speed or any stat related to it to reinforce this.
-Nothing else at the moment, I would rather wait for some of these ideas to be implemented and then make further suggestions.
Edited by Colt#2370 on 12/6/2012 9:17 PM PST
1. Hearing people express their opinion how they choose to
Im just triying to encourage efficiency, structure and format ( It will be easier to read, and easier to recollect) since a lot of people was starting to flame recklessly
You are free to do what you want just dot be impolite in the process.
Dont be that negative Geez, this people.
Edited by Colt#2370 on 12/6/2012 6:13 PM PST
1-What I Liked:
I liked most of the changes ideas but the values probably need reworking (Blizzard can surely handle that themselves after careful testing, and hopefully within a Public Test Realm if they do another one).
Particularly, the changes to Sweeping Wind, as that is the skill that defines the monk for me, and would like to do something else other than spamming little blue tornadoes everywhere.
2-What I Disliked:
Besides some of the numerical values (again, Blizzard should get this)
I did not like:
-Knockback on Wave of Light is fun, I use it defensively, and knockback makes it look and feel more powerful.
-Some of the changes to Serenity. Ascension is fine, and Tranquility I enjoy for the CC break for the team, not for the damage immunity. So maybe, remove invulnerability of tranquility (for the team) and instead make it cc break/immune for the whole team (excluding monk) to 2-3 seconds.
-Inner Sanctuary: I don't believe the numbers are a problem for this skill (duration, damage etc). But the cooldown might stand a reduction (also, see below).
3-What I would add:
-Inner Sanctuary: To be finally useful, instead of just increasing numbers, it needs to be able to do what its supposed to do... aka shield you from harm. Opponents with reach, ranged, desecrator/plague can all still "damage you" in your sanctuary. Make it so that they can't, and Voila, useful party use ("Oh hey demon hunters, you want to stand somewhere where you can't be touched and let it rip? Right this way....")
Overall good ideas.
Note: The "Community" thing is a bit iffy, but the effort is applauded and this alone is not a strong enough fact to discourage all ideas. Plus, some nerfs (which for Thunderclap could be less extreme (maybe to 25-28%?) and for others (The whole Sweeping Wind also has a duration and radius increase which is very nice)
Note2: Also, no comment on the set items, as I haven't used them much/at all.
1. What I liked
Thinking of ways to increase diversity in builds and improving the overall game.
2. What I didn't like
Rhaal trying/pretending to speak on the monk community's behalf when in no way did the majority of the community have any input on this
3. What I would add
A disclaimer that this is purely based on Rhaal's and the following players' opinion and does not represent majority of the monk community
Lets try another format!!
As a monk Im dissapointed Fuzzy, I never said or spoke to you like that to deserve that post, Im just triying to give my 2 cents to help monk ideas to be heard, wheter its 1 or 100 depends on us.
You arent helping much with that attitude. I really wanted to be constructive, thats all.
About myself, im a feedback lover, and if I have an opinion I say it on the best intentions possible.
Theres nothing else to it.
To the negative ones, why dont you share why this isnt your opinion? on what it diverges exactly ? what do you suggest to fix this? Is this truly your best attempt to help? I get that you disagree, but everyone that does this just generalize blatantly, thats why I proposed a simple structure to discuss things with order and on the best attempt to agree on something.
If we cant even agree on the simple things that we need, I guess we just dont deserve any buff at all. Or even worse lets just let Blizzard throw darts on what to do with us next.
Because we are too stupid to form a comunity among ourselves.
Edited by Colt#2370 on 12/6/2012 8:42 PM PST
Sincerity has no use on the unenlightened masses, young Colt.
"Fight fire with fire", so they say...
When in doubt, use the darkside in you,
perhaps then they might learn something from your wisdom. ;)
Edited by LordRaahl#1733 on 12/6/2012 8:34 PM PST
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