Diablo® III

What MP level do you think I can handle?

Hahahahah. "Extra Health" mobs on MP7. I'm surprised you're not still going at it. The first time I ever tried MP5, the first elite pack I ran into had extra health. I think I passed out before I got them down to 25% health.

In any event, I'm very impressed at your elite/death ratio n MP7. I would have guessed the ratio would have been flipped. Nice stuff! Keep us informed. Very interesting to see what is possible for the self found monk, and I'd never have the patience to make a serious run at the higher MP's like that. I might consider trying key runs up the MP levels some day when I'm looking to do something different, but I just don't have it in me spend any serious time in anything beyond MP3 these days.
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im surprised as well - i would not have thought 570k ehp with the amount of uptime you are facing vs elites would translate well to MP7.

Suggests you play very skillfully
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Thanks, gents. My MP7 sample size is far too small to draw any conclusions, so I'm going to give MP6 a full A2 run and then see how A2 looks on MP7 if I do it the whole way.
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Alright, I just took a swing at a MP7 Act 1 key run. My Act 1 Key rng has been abysmal for about two weeks, so I figured it was worth a shot.

I was able to complete the run. I didn't count my deaths, but think it was probably 4 or 5.

And this one's for Druin . . . total time to get 5 stacks and kill the key warden. . . 46 minutes. Take that, Mr. Efficiency.!

It's actually not that bad. It takes forever to kill things, but I was getting a lot more yellows that I'm used to, so it didn't feel completely pointless. And only one elite pack killed me twice (skeleton archers in the warrior's rest with vortex and arcane don't leave you a lot of wiggle room).

Of course, still no *%()&^ key. At this RNG pace I'm going to be better off spending the 4 hours it would take me to get 5 stacks + warden on MP10.
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Overg, try MP6. I'm handling that just fine, and I was able to face-tank Sokhar with no trouble.
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Oh yeah, the Act 1 warden itself was no problem on MP7. His ground fire is pretty nasty, but not terribly difficult to avoid.

*boots up MP6 key run*

Okay, on MP6 managed to do a key run in 41 minutes. Although that was with some pretty bad maps . . . it took me at least 15 minutes (which included a few elite encounters) just to find the warden once I had 5 stacks.

For comparison's sake, I ran MP1 immediately afterward. Took me 14 minutes to do a key run, which I'd say is pretty close to my average. I could probably cut it down to 10 with good maps, and it'd probably take me 20 if I got very unlucky with elite and warden placement.
Edited by overg#1771 on 12/9/2012 2:00 PM PST
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If you can do three runs on MP1 in the same time you need to do the same run in MP6, then you should do the runs on MP6:

MP1: 90% chance to not find it x 90% x 90% = 72.9% to not find it

MP6: 40% chance to not find it

Of course, there's a chance you'll get lucky on MP1 and find it sooner. But I think MP6 is better if you're around three-to-one on time.
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With your stats it must be a god awful long !@# fight after MP 4. I can do the upper MP lvl's, but I don't anymore, because it takes forever to kill anything past MP6 for me. And I can survive the fights, but the time evolved is just to long.
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Depends what you consider "too long." I posted some times that I tracked. I'd rather get involved in a long fight that requires a lot of moving and repositioning and watching cool-downs than dialing the knob to MP3 and sleepwalking through the game, but it's not for everyone.
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I still run the upper lvl's to get better drops, for the AH. But that's it. I am glad you find it worth your while to run the upper MP lvl's. But me I don't like the time it takes. I gave up on the rings because I have made 9 and they were all crap, and not worth the time for me. I still have 6 machines and don't plan to use them anytime soon.
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Hey guys,

I am basically wondering the same as the initial person that posted the thread. I have been playing for a little bit consistently and I added Druin in the game which helped me out quite some with items and advice but I hate to bother him again. I was looking to start trying to farm which I found online farming the butcher... I die EVERYTIME and I was able to kill him once by a miracle tonight! I just get tired of dying. lol! I am not sure what I am doing wrong... if anyone can give me advice please do.

I will very much appreciate it.
Thank you
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I think a lot of "please give me advice" threads can be boiled down to one of two or three answers. In your case, you're dying too much, so you have a few choices:

1. Drop an MP level.
2. Add more defense.
3. Add more offense.

Looking at your profile, your armor seems too low. I see what you're doing with Backlash, Guardian's Path, Sixth Sense, Blinding Speed, and Wall of Wind, but I think you could use a tweak or two in the armor direction. Sixth Sense provides less benefit than Guardian's Path, so I'd switch that to Seize the Initiative and boost your armor from 3554 to 4375, which will boost your effective life by about 12.5%. If that gets you on your feet, great; if not, you should then change the ruby in your helm to an amethyst for the extra life. If you're in good shape then, great; if not, well, I don't want to consider swapping Backlash to Hard Target because it will mess up what you're going for on the offensive side, but it would certainly help your defense. Not nearly as exciting, though.

Those are all non-gear-related switches. I don't think you can add much offense without changing gear. That said, all of those "chance to dodge" effects add less and less to your Backlash proc. For example, a 15% chance to dodge with a 60% Backlash damage produces 0.15 x 0.6 = 9% weapon damage each time a mob swings at you, but adding another 15% chance to dodge raises that number to 16.65%, not 18%, because dodge increases are multiplicative, not additive. What this means is that Guardian's Path is not providing 15% dodge x 56% weapon damage = 8.4% damage; it's providing substantially less than that, depending on all the other dodge-enhancing abilities you're using during combat.

End result? If you're looking for more offense, you could switch Guardian's Path to Combination Strike and get ... well, more offense. (It's not a straight 8% boost because it adds to Blazing Wrath's boost, so it's about 7% for you.) Of course, it won't provide the same defensive benefit, but you've got a lot of dodge already.

Just some thoughts. Experiment!
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lol wow,
you actually wrote a whole report about yourself fighting those elites,
and included their elites affixes too and formatted the <li> code for every line, haha...

But you forgot to add their names, or else it'd be a 10/10. lol.

Question,
in what MP were you able to kill Belial?
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I might be the only poster on this forum who bothers using the <li> code on a consistent basis. Or any basis, I suppose. You must have missed my posts on the PTR forum before 1.0.5 went live :)

Anyway, I posted those details so people wouldn't have to ask.

As for Belial, I killed him on MP4, although I had to use the Echoing Fury and some "heavy items" in my stash because I didn't have enough DPS to kill him with this gear before the enrage timer kicker in. (Sometimes, "MOAR DPS!!1!" is the solution.) For example, I ditched my 5.1% freeze-on-hit belt for this fight because Belial doesn't freeze in his final form. (That's my recollection, anyway.) I haven't tried to kill him on any other MP level yet. I suspect I can handle him at MP5, but no higher, with the same equipment I used on MP4. He and The Butcher are much, much tougher than anything else in their acts—even if you can handle elites, you might not be able to handle them at the same MP level. They're off the scale, essentially, but they're bosses, so it makes sense. Just a bit frustrating to be able to handle an entire act almost scott-free with one set of gear and then find that gear completely inadequate to killing the end boss.
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What do you think about my build now? I know I need a better belt and I have saved up a total of 700k... not sure how much I will need for a decent belt but yea... any help will be greatly appreciated.

thanks again
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Hey Jaws . . . just what is killing you with Butcher? Are you getting one shot by one of his special attacks? Whittled down by him? Burned in the fire? Or are you hitting his "enrage" timer (which is when essentially the entire floor will constantly be on fire)?

It might just be that there is a mechanic to the fight that you're not aware of which is killing you. It's entirely possible to face-tank him through Hell without ever really learning how his moves work, which can make Inferno a rude awakening. You're still light on armor, but I'd think you'd have enough dps and sustain to kill him on MP0 without much problem. So it might just be you're not avoiding an attack you're meant to avoid (namely his jump up and down attack, his point at you and rope you in attack, and/or the ground fire). If that's not it, can you tell us how you're dying so we might make some more suggestions?

@Vrkhyz: I agree that there is a certain level of frustration at the very idea of "gear check" bosses. I much prefer a fight like Diablo, where it's at least possible to beat him with patience and good play, even if you're undergeared. Especially for a self-found player the idea that a fight like Butcher or Belial *will* kill you, guaranteed, if you don't have a certain level of dps is kind of a bummer. The MP concept is kind of a solution for this, but I'd prefer they do away with this mechanic altogether. I much prefer "efficiency is its own reward" style of boss design, where better gear means you can do the fight faster, but isn't an absolute requirement to doing the fight in the first place.

BTW, I think I've settled on MP5 as my key-farming level of choice. MP6 is doable, but for me hits the point of being rather tedious. It's basically the breaking point between "long fights" and "realllly long fights." Still, it's nice to know I can push the MP envelope beyond that if I so desire. So once again I must thank you for inspiring me to push on. And hopefully threads like this might inspire others to play "self found," or at least recognize that using the AH is *not* an absolute requirement for playing this game (although for the record, I don't begrudge anyone using the AH . . . if that's what makes the game the most fun for you, I say go for it).

And edit 2: I don't think Butcher is doable for me at MP5. I took one run at him tonight, and had extremely good dps and cooldown uptime, and still only had him a little below 50% when the entire floor went to flame. I was using my dps spec and my dps gear, and still didn't even come close. So it looks like MP4 will be my max for boss runs until I get better gear. Which again, is kind of frustrating. On the other hand, given how bad my gear actually is, relatively speaking, and the fact that I deliberately don't use the "cookie cutter" spec, I don't feel I can complain all that much about not being able to beat the "halfway" point of the MP levels yet.
Edited by overg#1771 on 12/10/2012 6:53 PM PST
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I am doing it on Inferno MP1 and the Fire pit usually gets me so I guess I can't kill him fast enough... I have gotten him down to like one more attack but the fire pit goes crazy at that point and I get killed! but I can take him on solo easily on mp0
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Okay, that would just be a pure dps issue. In that case, probably the quickest/easiest/cheapest solution would be to switch mantra of retribution for mantra of conviction. Either the rune overawe or submission should more than do the trick if you're really that close to downing him when the fire goes crazy. Another option would be to swap out cyclone strike, which is actually going to decrease your damage per second on a fight like butcher. You could try something like seven sided strike, wave of light, mystic ally, lashing tail kick, or even exploding palm (esp. with the flesh is weak ruin) to upgrade your damage potential versus Butcher.

If you really like your spec as is, the quickest/easiest/cheapest way to up your damage would simply be to upgrade your gems. Upping your emeralds to "star" quality (which your jeweler can learn without finding any recipes) will give you a dexterity boost, which will increase both your dps and your dodge (although you've already got quite a bit of dodge in your skills as Vrkhyz explained above). Once again, if you're that close to downing Butcher, that small boost to your damage might be all you need.
Edited by overg#1771 on 12/11/2012 1:37 AM PST
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BTW, I think I've settled on MP5 as my key-farming level of choice. MP6 is doable, but for me hits the point of being rather tedious. It's basically the breaking point between "long fights" and "realllly long fights." Still, it's nice to know I can push the MP envelope beyond that if I so desire. So once again I must thank you for inspiring me to push on. And hopefully threads like this might inspire others to play "self found," or at least recognize that using the AH is *not* an absolute requirement for playing this game (although for the record, I don't begrudge anyone using the AH . . . if that's what makes the game the most fun for you, I say go for it).

And edit 2: I don't think Butcher is doable for me at MP5. I took one run at him tonight, and had extremely good dps and cooldown uptime, and still only had him a little below 50% when the entire floor went to flame. I was using my dps spec and my dps gear, and still didn't even come close. So it looks like MP4 will be my max for boss runs until I get better gear. Which again, is kind of frustrating. On the other hand, given how bad my gear actually is, relatively speaking, and the fact that I deliberately don't use the "cookie cutter" spec, I don't feel I can complain all that much about not being able to beat the "halfway" point of the MP levels yet.

I was starting to hit the wall with the second half of Act 2 on MP6—partly because the mobs get a bit tougher, and partly because I'm not quite satisfied with the way my build has no outlet for excess spirit. That dissatisfaction has led to a lot of tweaking and massaging, which tends to result in death during the feel-it-out phase for me, so it's not a good idea when I'm already pushing the envelope! So I'm down to MP5 and having a good time. Still deciding where that last skill slot is going to go: I think it'll either be Dashing Strike, Tempest Rush (again), Wave of Light, or Spinning Flame Kick. Not sure yet. I definitely need a valve, though: there's no point to spamming MoE faster than every three seconds, and I generate enough spirit in that time to cover the spirit cost.

Glad you found inspiration in the post! I'm going to try Belial on MP5—my usual skills, whatever they end up being, but with my Echoing Fury and other DPS/VIT items instead of my usual gear. I'll let you know how it goes.
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I think dashing strike is quite fun and extremely useful, but I wouldn't recommend it as a spirit dump. Maybe it's because I've used Quicksilver forever, but I tend to associate the skill more as as nearly-free utility rather than a spirit spender.

I have a blast using Wave of Light. I noticed you're playing around with empowered wave, which can do some nice dps if you remember to cast it every time you've got the spirit. Otherwise I'd recommend wall of light, or my new favorite toy, blinding light. I've found stuns very useful, especially in progression. As far as I can tell, there are no diminishing returns as you go up in MP levels, so for me stuns feel relatively more powerful the more I'm pushing the envelope.

I used lashing tail throughout my leveling, all the way to Act II inferno. I was using spinning flame kick in what was pretty much a kiting spec, and enjoyed it. Scorpion sting might be worth a look as a nearly on-demand stun option. In any event, have fun experimenting. I think one of the bonuses of playing self-found is a greater sense of freedom in not having to use the "cookie-cutter" specs. We're being inefficient anyway, we might as well play around with the skills which are the most fun to use while we're at it.
Edited by overg#1771 on 12/11/2012 5:49 PM PST
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