Diablo® III

The Argument.. and why it doesn't fly

So then you are saying that everyone that bought D3, didn't know anything at all about D3 and what it would be like playing. They had zero knowledge of the direction of the game. Everyone and yes I mean everyone did not even bother to attend Blizzcons. Those that did only went for WoW and no one was at the D3 booths. If they were then they just were not listening. Maybe they had their hands in their ears and singing lah, lah, lah, lah not listening.

Sorry I do not believe that 10 million people were totally ignorant and expect D3 to be just a hyped up version of D2:LOD with prettier graphics and a different story.


Your reading and understanding is still pretty misguided by yourself.

Do read again.

Perhaps you would understand better.


Look if they bought a game purely on what they know that D2:LOD is and what others are saying about D3. Then why did anyone bother to buy it. Why did it sell 10 million copies. According to your logic it should not have sold a single copy, because all of the reviews (player reviews) have been negative.

I knew what I was getting into, I knew that I liked what I saw. Yes I knew that there would be some flaws. As that is something that happens to all games. Even the mighty D2 had to wait until many patches and an expansion before it got to the point where it is now.

I have no doubt that there are millions of other like myself that knew what they were getting into when they bought D3. They knew that it would not be a perfect copy of D2:LOD with prettier graphics and a different story. It was not made for the nostalgia players that wanted just that. Believe me that are those that wanted just that.
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Simple fact it took a long long time to get D2 to it's current botted duped to death state. People seem to think it was it's at it's current state at release or at the release of LOD and in turth it was not. Even the most useful rune words Nigma,COH,Hoto, CTA came long long after LOD 's release .before the rune words pumped new life into D2 it was dieing a slow death. Yes I wont say no one was playing it but the public games had shrunk to nothing .The didn't even reset the ladders for the longest time and then wen they first started to do it it took almost 2 years to reset it again .Then they started to so it semi annually.

even most of the PvPer's I met were modded to the max and it was not a true PvP but a matter of did you have the latest mods,How fast was you comp and how good was your IP speed.

I have hope for D3 yes I will admit when it was release it was far from it's billing but for me it was fresh and new. the grind and very easy acquisition of gear had become a joke. It can take what 5-6 hours to hit 80 if that and another 4-5 to hit 90 if your slow. I mean I spent a day and some time trading on the day of the last ladder reset to hit 90 and it was nothing the dupers were hard at work the first 2 days and by the 3rd day I had through trades had a nigma ,hoto,Infinity(for my merc) and a bunch of other stuff.

I mean really if your going whine and moan about not having good gear like in D2 and the game is not like D2 just go play D2 .
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@ShadowAegis

I am really not sure what is wrong with your understanding. Sometime it seem like you only wish to understand and read something you wish to understand and read. You did that before with our last conversation with different topic.

You should stop interacting with me, not because i do not want you to debate with me, but i see no reasons to keep explaining to you all the time.

You realize that you often took a whole big chunk of what other people wrote and throw it away again and again?

I am not the first person who said that to you, and i will not be the last.

If you continue to make comments without actually understanding, what is the points of debating in the forum then? Your mind is clearly good and it is enjoyable to debate with you on subjects, However it is painful to keep talking to someone who keep going off track with their words.

When and where did i said 10 millions people were totally ignorant about anything? You are once again very off the track,

I wrote by making something so removed from the origin, It turn into something else.

Blizzard was not able to replace the system they removed with a better system. That did nothing to help to sell the decision of they making such a cut off from previous system. Some people are indeed having issues with respecting that decision.

Your previous posts spoke about the current system too

You failed to understand a reputation of a game and a up-coming product of that game series, sometime is due to the contribution of previous records. You think there would really be 10 millions buyer if Diablo was never released before and achieved what it had?


You deny that it influenced none of the 10 million buyer's decisions to purchase Diablo III due to their experiences with the past installments?

Save your sharp tongue for something really important, and not do not waste it by tangling with anyone in the forum please.

Since time and time again, not only with my comments, but others as well. You just keep going off track.

You should change your nickname to the one-eyed. For that is the only thing you seem to be doing. Seeing everything in just your own one view and talking about everything with only your own understanding.

These words are not in anyway personal, but it does look that way that, you had not only once but a few times, misunderstand my words with your own very immovable way of understanding things.

You do not realize that some of the people you interacted with, are been pretty polite with you. Do respect others by trying to really understand what others are really trying to say?

I bid you a good day ahead, Mr ShadowAegis.

May you find peace in your mind.
Edited by Dutchmilk#6229 on 12/9/2012 2:52 AM PST
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12/08/2012 09:43 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Look if they bought a game purely on what they know that D2:LOD is and what others are saying about D3. Then why did anyone bother to buy it. Why did it sell 10 million copies. According to your logic it should not have sold a single copy, because all of the reviews (player reviews) have been negative.


I never said that. That is how you understood the words.

I said Diablo's previous installments are a big factor why some people buy Diablo III. One cannot just wipe away and discount that factor.

Two

12/08/2012 09:43 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
I knew what I was getting into, I knew that I liked what I saw. Yes I knew that there would be some flaws. As that is something that happens to all games. Even the mighty D2 had to wait until many patches and an expansion before it got to the point where it is now.


I spoke about that on page one. Second comment. Read.

I said Diablo II was not what it is when it is first released. However the design of the core designs allows Blizzard North to keep adding layers to it.

Three. Why commit the same mistakes since there is previous history for one to go through? Unless the intention was intentional in the beginning to ignore the history.

This is Diablo III, not I or II.

You improve. Not make the same mistakes. You may learn from new mistakes never occur before in the game series before.

Keep to the focus and what is actually being said.
Edited by Dutchmilk#6229 on 12/8/2012 10:14 PM PST
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12/08/2012 09:43 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
I have no doubt that there are millions of other like myself that knew what they were getting into when they bought D3. They knew that it would not be a perfect copy of D2:LOD with prettier graphics and a different story. It was not made for the nostalgia players that wanted just that. Believe me that are those that wanted just that.


No, i honestly do not believe you on my own personal stand.

Am I fan of Diablo? Yes i am. I considered myself nostalgia too, but myself do not want a clone with a updated graphic.

I would want a game that is so much better than both installments. I want to say " Darn, Diablo I and II, what? This is so much cooler. This is da !@#$za "

I am just not sold to the decisions they made to the game Diablo III.

I am not saying this to rebuke you. This is just my honest reply.
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12/08/2012 06:39 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Next some features in D2:LOD if they wanted to port them over to the new design would take a lot of work to get them right. Sure I can understand why they are liked. But it is not as easy as you think to port them over.


I had to log in just to call shenanigans on this.... How hard do you think it is to add some of these features that would add some level of depth to the game?

Let me pick an example, elemental damage. It is NOT hard to "port" over and it adds depth to the game. Choosing between say the high damage over time of poison or the randomness of things such as chain lightning. Add to this the fact that some enemies were immune to certain elements and then teamplay or character diversity in single player were both encouraged. These interesting features were completely removed and in my mind it is just an example of extreme laziness in how this game was designed.

Let me pick another, a variety of socketables. There is NO reason to reduce the number of socketables and programming a few extra gems into the game is NOT hard work, anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Hell even the gems we do have are boring because there is not even the illusion of choice. There is so much that could be done with socketables but again, I would say that this is another example of very lazy game design.

You know what, even if these things were hard to implement, that is still a very pathetic reason to not add features into a game, especially one that had huge budget and was in development for years and had a previous game to learn from.

Rant over, good post OP! I am sick of hearing about how making a game is so hard, and that because D3 is a new game it should not have learnt anything from what made D2:LoD work. It is seriously pathetic!
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12/08/2012 06:57 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Sorry I do not believe that 10 million people were totally ignorant and expect D3 to be just a hyped up version of D2:LOD with prettier graphics and a different story.


Sadly, this would have been a better game.
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Throughout my time playing Diablo 2 even Post-LOD i still had classic characters every ladder. I found it enjoyable even without the LOD bonuses as did many others.

We can be completely honest, Diablo 2 would have been dead no more than 3/4 years after its release were it not for the PvP. The ladder also complicates this number from a PvM standpoint.

The feel of this game is not built to be a superb PvP game. It has no real future in its current state. The PvP is going to be so restrained, and so... slow paced? It will not hold a fan base like Diablo 2's did. It is going to be something like a zerg fest.. Much like Diablo 2 was before Enigma.. No evasiveness, no strategy, breakpoints worthless. Better gear = Better dueler. This was true with Diablo 2, but only to a certain extent. After you gear reached a certain quality, that was it. It became a skill game after that.

I will be completely honest I was on the griefing side of PvP many times. I was also on the side being griefed many times. It is exactly what made PvP fun. This 4 player arena 3, 2, 1 go bs is going to be worthless.

The only future this game has is:

A- Live off of expansions.
B- Add a ladder.

Either way the AH/RMAH will balance every so often with new items(A) or with the auction house reset with the ladder(B), at least it would clean the massively flooded supply/demand market and give value to items again. Magic, Rare, Legendary, Set.
Edited by Marysvillain#1775 on 12/9/2012 12:29 AM PST
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12/07/2012 07:32 AMPosted by Saigyouji
As an example, if they put in charms as they existed in D2, then people would feel compelled to use them but hate the lack of inventory space that results. That's a flaw inherent to the charm system.


Answer? Charm bag.

Fixed.
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I think pride has a lot to do with the initial flop of a release.

They were handed a lengendary success and thought they could not only do just as well but be better. Consumer outcry gave them a reality check.

It's like seeing Leonardo paint the Mona Lisa and then figure you could do better by giving her a moustache and blond hair (androgynous Diablo); as a result your genius would also be recognized!
Edited by Roadblock#1530 on 12/9/2012 12:50 AM PST
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12/07/2012 05:51 AMPosted by Dutchmilk
Might as well call it Angel Fall or something.


:LOL
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12/08/2012 09:43 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
I knew what I was getting into, I knew that I liked what I saw. Yes I knew that there would be some flaws. As that is something that happens to all games. Even the mighty D2 had to wait until many patches and an expansion before it got to the point where it is now.


You did not know what you were getting into. You had to get the game and play it to find out that.

Unless you had access to the final release before the rest of us...
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12/08/2012 09:51 PMPosted by Agmo
Simple fact it took a long long time to get D2 to it's current botted duped to death state.


Only took a month or so for D3 to reach that state...
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I think pride has a lot to do with the initial flop of a release.

They were handed a lengendary success and thought they could not only do just as well but be better. Consumer outcry gave them a reality check.

It's like seeing Leonardo paint the Mona Lisa and then figure you could do better by giving her a moustache and blond hair (androgynous Diablo); as a result your genius would also be recognized!


A slap on the face would be really what is needed.
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Posted by Agmo
Simple fact it took a long long time to get D2 to it's current botted duped to death state.

Only took a month or so for D3 to reach that state...


And bot was never a real issue to some of the players who does not buy anything or trade anything.

It is a big issue in Diablo III for golds and items values are such a influence factor.
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[quote="73494341318"]Posted by Dutchmilk
Might as well call it Angel Fall or something.

Or perhaps it did? Then decided to change to milk out more money from something more well known?
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Posted by ShadowAegis
I knew what I was getting into, I knew that I liked what I saw. Yes I knew that there would be some flaws. As that is something that happens to all games. Even the mighty D2 had to wait until many patches and an expansion before it got to the point where it is now.

You did not know what you were getting into. You had to get the game and play it to find out that.

Unless you had access to the final release before the rest of us...


The one before and after and therefore he is, was and in-between before time start and till time end.
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Your previous posts spoke about the current system too

You failed to understand a reputation of a game and a up-coming product of that game series, sometime is due to the contribution of previous records. You think there would really be 10 millions buyer if Diablo was never released before and achieved what it had?

You deny that it influenced none of the 10 million buyer's decisions to purchase Diablo III due to their experiences with the past installments?

Save your sharp tongue for something really important, and not do not waste it by tangling with anyone in the forum please.


I am trying to point out something simple, I will make this real easy this time. There is a thread here on the forums that is basically asking what made D2 great. Now that is a mix bag. Some would say PvP, others will say stat/skill points. Me on the other hand I would say that there is no one feature that makes a game great. I always count all of the good features in a game and weight them against the flaws of the game. If the flaws keep me from having fun then I stop playing.

Now the same thing is true for sales, reputation alone will not be the only reason a game sells so many copies. Sure it can help, but not the sole factor as so many here on the forums are touting. You can believe what you want and say it is the only reason anyone bought this game. We do live in a country where you can believe that whether it is true or not. But I know that it's reputation along with other factors is what caused players to buy the game.

The only good game reviews did not come from the players at various gaming websites. No they had to come from the website itself. Their reviewers gave it a positive review. I can tell you though reviews really do not get my attention. Because anyone can say what they want in a review at a website. But when you talk to a player of said game face to face it is a whole different story IMO. You can see his/her expressions when they are talking about the game. You can see their passion for the game, or their hatred.

So then it is actually a pet peeve with me when someone claims that the only reason D3 sold so many copies was D2:LOD's reputation alone, or others say that the sole reason is the reputation of the Diablo franchise. When I know that the reputation alone did not sell all of those copies. That would be impossible for any game to do.

I mean how does a new game sell. What does it base it's success entirely on the company that made it. Then I guess GGG game Path of Exile will not do well at all since it is their only game. They have no reputation to fall back on. This is what I am talking about. Never say that reputation alone is the sole reason that D3 sold 10 million copies. That is insane and I will not buy it.

The devs of this game worked hard to make a good game. Sure it has it's flaws and they are working hard to fix them. With more patches and an expansion or two this game will be where D2 was when it had it's expansion and patches. Who knows this game might even beat D2, only time will tell.

So the reputation of the Diablo series is only one reason why it sold so many copies. Then add in the reputation of Blizz itself. Then add in what they saw when they kept up to date about the game.
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12/09/2012 01:18 AMPosted by LunathirEth
I knew what I was getting into, I knew that I liked what I saw. Yes I knew that there would be some flaws. As that is something that happens to all games. Even the mighty D2 had to wait until many patches and an expansion before it got to the point where it is now.


You did not know what you were getting into. You had to get the game and play it to find out that.

Unless you had access to the final release before the rest of us...


I see you misunderstand me. I was talking about the fact that I did not buy this game thinking it would be a perfect little copy of D2:LOD. In fact if I believed that in any way I might not have bought it until about a year or two later.

I knew that there would be no skill/stat points to spend. I knew that the talisman system was scrapped along with the Mystic and many other things that you also no doubt knew about just by reading the information on diablofans.com and the official site before this game launched. The rest of the game was unknown until I bought it and played it.

So this means that I had more than enough information to decide whether I wanted to buy this game or not. That is exactly what I am talking about and I know that many other players had the same information that I did and made their decision accordingly.
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I am trying to point out something simple, I will make this real easy this time. There is a thread here on the forums that is basically asking what made D2 great. Now that is a mix bag. Some would say PvP, others will say stat/skill points. Me on the other hand I would say that there is no one feature that makes a game great. I always count all of the good features in a game and weight them against the flaws of the game. If the flaws keep me from having fun then I stop playing.

Now the same thing is true for sales, reputation alone will not be the only reason a game sells so many copies. Sure it can help, but not the sole factor as so many here on the forums are touting. You can believe what you want and say it is the only reason anyone bought this game. We do live in a country where you can believe that whether it is true or not. But I know that it's reputation along with other factors is what caused players to buy the game.

The only good game reviews did not come from the players at various gaming websites. No they had to come from the website itself. Their reviewers gave it a positive review. I can tell you though reviews really do not get my attention. Because anyone can say what they want in a review at a website. But when you talk to a player of said game face to face it is a whole different story IMO. You can see his/her expressions when they are talking about the game. You can see their passion for the game, or their hatred.

So then it is actually a pet peeve with me when someone claims that the only reason D3 sold so many copies was D2:LOD's reputation alone, or others say that the sole reason is the reputation of the Diablo franchise. When I know that the reputation alone did not sell all of those copies. That would be impossible for any game to do.

I mean how does a new game sell. What does it base it's success entirely on the company that made it. Then I guess GGG game Path of Exile will not do well at all since it is their only game. They have no reputation to fall back on. This is what I am talking about. Never say that reputation alone is the sole reason that D3 sold 10 million copies. That is insane and I will not buy it.

The devs of this game worked hard to make a good game. Sure it has it's flaws and they are working hard to fix them. With more patches and an expansion or two this game will be where D2 was when it had it's expansion and patches. Who knows this game might even beat D2, only time will tell.

So the reputation of the Diablo series is only one reason why it sold so many copies. Then add in the reputation of Blizz itself. Then add in what they saw when they kept up to date about the game.


I never once did said it was the sole reason. I said some of the buyers brought the game because of past experiences and reputation.

Some. You know the meaning of some?

What are you really wearing for glasses? or perhaps you really need a pair?

I never claim once that Diablo III cannot achieve better, however i do not respect the current system which is inferior.

You are still clearly not reading what i wrote.

What others said and wrote and think, are what they said and wrote and think. They do not represent what i am trying to express.

Since you are responding to my comments. Please do follow in line to what i had written.

Your generalization of answers and people are very disturbing to me. Do you know you are actually replying to me, when you chose to reply to me?

I think i had never associated you with a group of something or some people. My answers back to you is always about what you said and not what others said.

You are you.

Or am i talking to group of people behind the computer?
Edited by Dutchmilk#6229 on 12/9/2012 3:06 AM PST
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