Diablo® III

The Argument.. and why it doesn't fly

Why is everyone treating D3 like a D2 xpac and expecting it have all of the same stuff and then a bit more, like an expansion? Its a continuation of the series, yes, but that does not mean it has to be the same freaking game, and it should be treated as its own game. if it was not a continuation of d2 and d1 and it was its own game from a different company, no one would complain.
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First D3 is clearly a better remodel game than D2. But to today's standard D3 is no longer the top notch game that D2 was during its reign. The standard now is higher and blizzard had not produce the higher teir game that fans had hoped for.

When the father being D2 was the world's fastest runner and his son 10 years later who is everything like his father and some more came 2nd place during his run. You'd think that the father is better than his son. H/e it is just the competition that make it seem so.
Edited by Lenix#1977 on 12/9/2012 6:52 PM PST
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12/07/2012 01:07 AMPosted by Deadlysynz
Why did the D3 dev team literally go back 12 years and in essence, re-create D2 like it was released on day 1, with the exception of them removing PvP and the majority of the loot.


This confused me as well.

They've had a ton of time to look at other games both Diablo 2 and like minded versions to figure out how to best create the next Diablo 3 game.

Instead they completely ignored history and started from scratch making D3 more like D2 when it comes to the process. Horrible game until a ton of work was put into the game and years passed by.
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Answer is short and simple, they re-created Diablo 1. Skeleton King and Butcher is for old timers like me, it was so cool to see them again after 16yrs.

Diablo 3 has good foundation and an awesome engine, I have no doubt it will surpass D1 and D2 in the future with expansions.
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12/09/2012 06:11 PMPosted by Yumhi
Why is everyone treating D3 like a D2 xpac and expecting it have all of the same stuff and then a bit more, like an expansion? Its a continuation of the series, yes, but that does not mean it has to be the same freaking game, and it should be treated as its own game. if it was not a continuation of d2 and d1 and it was its own game from a different company, no one would complain.

The reason is quite simple. Many of the elements of D2 were exceptionally well done and needed little adjustment to bring them into the modern era of gaming. They could have had an excellent foundation for D3 with a minimal amount of work and the extra development time could have spent expanding upon the game with awesome new features.

Instead their ~5 years of development time left us with less than what we already had with D2 and the features included are in a less desirable state as well. They took a major step back rather than one forward because they simply refused to expand upon what they had, scrapping it all instead.

No one expected it to be an expansion (though I'm sure many-myself included-would love to see another D2 expansion) they didn't need to throw out all of the great mechanics. What possible reason could they have for not bringing back even the most simplistic elements like Jewels? They could have done a whole lot with very little time. It seems criminal to cut such significant ideas with no clear reason.
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D2 was nice when it came out, I remeber playing it just because of the awesome lore. and I love diablo's lore

I like D3 more and the way it has been introduced to the public. It throws u into the story, the visuals and music totally get me clanged onto the game and the farm and grind is basically the same. If you like these things your gonna love it.

I cant wait to see where D3 is gonna go after Paragon levels!
Happy hunting
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D2 was nice when it came out, I remeber playing it just because of the awesome lore. and I love diablo's lore

I like D3 more and the way it has been introduced to the public. It throws u into the story, the visuals and music totally get me clanged onto the game and the farm and grind is basically the same. If you like these things your gonna love it.

I cant wait to see where D3 is gonna go after Paragon levels!
Happy hunting

I actually find this post a little disturbing. It rings of brainwashing really or corporate advertisement. There is just so much wrong with it that it scares me a bit.
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He or she did not say he or she was expecting a game that is flawless. He or she expressed that the product they got was not living to the expectation he or she is expecting from Blizzard.

How did you come to conclusion he or she told you he or she is expecting a flawless game from Blizzard?

He or she is telling you to taste the pizza. Not look at it. Only by trying, would you know how good a product really is or how that pizza really taste like.

Knowing from reading, even it does ( in your own words ) tells you " everything blow by blow " The knowledge are just words on papers and theories that offer no real experience.

I do not think he or she is interested about if you want or do not want to know how many slices of pepperoni are there on a pizza. He or she might not be interested in your own view.

He or she is just asking you not to make such a certain statement about something before you even experience it.


I see you do not understand me, I was giving you incite on how I go about deciding on whether I want to buy game x or not. My decision to buy a game does not always equal in having found a game that I will be playing for years and years to come. Only one game fit that bill and now is a dead game as of November 30 of this year. That game was City of Heroes. I played it on and off for about six years, maybe more than six years.

I will give you more incite here. Before playing games at home I did all my game playing at the arcades at the local bowling alleys we as a family went to. We bowled for a while then my brother and me when and played games afterward. I played all types of games, from Pacman to Street Fighter games.

Then around the time Diablo came out I bought a PlayStaion and Diablo was the first game I played on it. I liked what I saw on the box, so the box sold the game. It was the sole reason I bought the game. I wanted to see how the story played out. How was my character going to stop Diablo. What type of power would he have and what type of gear would he have.

Fast forward to D2, I knew that I loved Diablo so when I learned about Diablo 2 I started to learn more about the game. The features of the game is what sold me, but I did not see the flaws until years later, which I will talk about later.

Next came my first online game and MMO called City of Heroes that game like Diablo sold itself by just reading the box alone. I had the opportunity to become a real superhero in a game. My comic book nerd dreams come true.

Then after about a few months or so after WoW launched I decided to give it try, primarily to see what the reason was for about one third of the players that left City of Heroes to play that game.

Then I started trying other free to play MMO's and their features were ones that looked good, but then I found out later they were flops IMO. They just did not give me what I was looking for. Then other games like Champions Online, which I was in the closed beta for was a blast to play for a while. But then I figured that I would only want to pay for two sub based games. So at the time I was paying for City of Heroes sub and a WoW sub at the time. Heck I even tried out Star Trek Online later due to the fact it was made by cryptic and I am a huge Star Trek fan. But still I looked at the game and liked what I saw.

I even played Hellgate:London and still play it as Hellgate:Global it is still a good game.

Now when I saw Diablo 3 and learned more about it I saw it addressed the flaws that kept me from playing it online. I had serious lag issue playing D2:LOD online, the hit animations, death animations along with the sound did not play until after I was ready to hit the enemy a second time. My character at times would shuffle along instead of walking. This game solves it, although at times I still have some lag issues, that I hope in time will be solved.

Next it solved another issue, to play online I would have to love PvP, because after a certain level other players could go hostile, non consensual PvP is a big turn off for me.

Next they solved the fact that you could way out level and out gear the content. IMO why bother playing the game if you have already beaten it around level 80, what is the point. What content will challenge a level 99 with the best gear in the game. What only two lousy ubers. This game has a whole level for that.
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I see you do not understand me, I was giving you incite on how I go about deciding on whether I want to buy game x or not. My decision to buy a game does not always equal in having found a game that I will be playing for years and years to come. Only one game fit that bill and now is a dead game as of November 30 of this year. That game was City of Heroes. I played it on and off for about six years, maybe more than six years.

I will give you more incite here. Before playing games at home I did all my game playing at the arcades at the local bowling alleys we as a family went to. We bowled for a while then my brother and me when and played games afterward. I played all types of games, from Pacman to Street Fighter games.

Then around the time Diablo came out I bought a PlayStaion and Diablo was the first game I played on it. I liked what I saw on the box, so the box sold the game. It was the sole reason I bought the game. I wanted to see how the story played out. How was my character going to stop Diablo. What type of power would he have and what type of gear would he have.

Fast forward to D2, I knew that I loved Diablo so when I learned about Diablo 2 I started to learn more about the game. The features of the game is what sold me, but I did not see the flaws until years later, which I will talk about later.

Next came my first online game and MMO called City of Heroes that game like Diablo sold itself by just reading the box alone. I had the opportunity to become a real superhero in a game. My comic book nerd dreams come true.

Then after about a few months or so after WoW launched I decided to give it try, primarily to see what the reason was for about one third of the players that left City of Heroes to play that game.

Then I started trying other free to play MMO's and their features were ones that looked good, but then I found out later they were flops IMO. They just did not give me what I was looking for. Then other games like Champions Online, which I was in the closed beta for was a blast to play for a while. But then I figured that I would only want to pay for two sub based games. So at the time I was paying for City of Heroes sub and a WoW sub at the time. Heck I even tried out Star Trek Online later due to the fact it was made by cryptic and I am a huge Star Trek fan. But still I looked at the game and liked what I saw.

I even played Hellgate:London and still play it as Hellgate:Global it is still a good game.

Now when I saw Diablo 3 and learned more about it I saw it addressed the flaws that kept me from playing it online. I had serious lag issue playing D2:LOD online, the hit animations, death animations along with the sound did not play until after I was ready to hit the enemy a second time. My character at times would shuffle along instead of walking. This game solves it, although at times I still have some lag issues, that I hope in time will be solved.

Next it solved another issue, to play online I would have to love PvP, because after a certain level other players could go hostile, non consensual PvP is a big turn off for me.

Next they solved the fact that you could way out level and out gear the content. IMO why bother playing the game if you have already beaten it around level 80, what is the point. What content will challenge a level 99 with the best gear in the game. What only two lousy ubers. This game has a whole level for that.


Good efforts to explain. Props to you.
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The D2 people refer to is D2:LoD because most people (despite what they may say on the forums) didn't play D2 Classic. D2 Classic was still an amazing game, but LoD added a lot of neat additions to the game, as well as fix some quality of life things.

What people need to understand (or perhaps do understand, but want to shove it into Blizzard's face) is that it is a completely different set of people who created Diablo 3 than the people who created/patched/worked on D2. The new team's goal wasn't to make a new Diablo 2, their goal was to create a new game that was somewhat similar with the same basic principles, but establish their own name and their own "franchise." They did what they thought would be best for the game... or perhaps what would be best for their company / job security / what would make the most money.... but I would like to think their decisions (even all the ones I disagree with) were in the best interest for the game.

What they created wasn't a bad game... but since Diablo 2 was so loved by so many, Diablo 3 didn't add up to expectations (for most, including me). They didn't want to create a Diablo 2 with better graphics. They didn't want to create Diablo 2 with a few new tweaks. They wanted to create a brand new game, even if it meant scrapping a lot of the ideas in D2 that worked so well (such as ones mentioned by the OP). They also were designing the game with a completely different gaming generation in mind, so things like permanent skill trees or stats were thrown out, perhaps for fear it would alienate the playerbase that doesn't want to have to put tons of time/effort into a game, they just want it as a way to escape life for a few hours at a time.

Had it been the same team that created / worked on D2, we probably would have seen D3 been a D2 with better graphics and a few new tweaks... not saying it would have been better than the current D3, but people really shouldn't expect D3 to be so similar to D2 when, in reality, they were released a decade apart by completely different people.... and what is basically a different company (by the way Blizzard has changed since that time).

Same name, not the same game... but everyone reading this already knows that :)
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D2 was nice when it came out, I remeber playing it just because of the awesome lore. and I love diablo's lore

I like D3 more and the way it has been introduced to the public. It throws u into the story, the visuals and music totally get me clanged onto the game and the farm and grind is basically the same. If you like these things your gonna love it.

I cant wait to see where D3 is gonna go after Paragon levels!
Happy hunting

I actually find this post a little disturbing. It rings of brainwashing really or corporate advertisement. There is just so much wrong with it that it scares me a bit.


Come on man, your post is equally disturbing. Claiming anyone who likes this game is just brainwashed? Look, I know people sometimes don't admit to themselves they don't like something because that would be admission to making a mistake or wasting their money. But believe it or not, some people like this game for it's other good qualities alone. And some people (including me) actually like the new direction it went, despite it's bland itemization.

12/09/2012 10:56 PMPosted by Mammoth
not saying it would have been better than the current D3, but people really shouldn't expect D3 to be so similar to D2 when, in reality, they were released a decade apart by completely different people.... and what is basically a different company


So true, not sure why people take this so personally. I've never seen a game that people hate so much, stay on the forums so long to be negative about it.
Edited by Connatic#1376 on 12/10/2012 3:32 PM PST
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12/09/2012 10:34 PMPosted by Dutchmilk
Good efforts to explain. Props to you.


Do you remember I said that in time I would get around to making a thread where I would show everyone my idea on manual stat points that could possibly work. One that is more in depth than the others but still simple enough to use. Well I have finally done it and here is the link below for you to take a look and comment on what you think about it.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7383848569
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Posted by Dutchmilk
Good efforts to explain. Props to you.

Do you remember I said that in time I would get around to making a thread where I would show everyone my idea on manual stat points that could possibly work. One that is more in depth than the others but still simple enough to use. Well I have finally done it and here is the link below for you to take a look and comment on what you think about it.


Yes i do and i did wish you luck.
I will take a good look and answer you seriously when i am done reading.
Edited by Dutchmilk#6229 on 12/10/2012 9:38 PM PST
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12/10/2012 03:31 PMPosted by Connatic
So true, not sure why people take this so personally. I've never seen a game that people hate so much, stay on the forums so long to be negative about it.


Love and memories transcend emotion beyond reasoning. A game is no longer merely a game when it triggers memories of your life, and holds the love you gave it.

People stay because of love, people hate because they struggled to accept what was done to the game because of love.

You ever got into a relationship where you love and hate someone both at the same time?

Things are often not that simple. What look like a simple answer to a situation, is often unfit to explain that situation.

It is sad that some people would even deny such emotions and condemn it as impractical and impossible.

Do realize entertainment are often very personal indeed. The amount of likes and affection to it varies differently from people to people.

There will always be hardcore loyal fans and the fans or people that never understood what is going on their head.

Why so personal?

Make Iron-man into Tin-man and the waves of personal reactions to it, would certainly be staggering.

What does it got to do with the fan? One who does not understand might ask.

They should all just keep their mouth shut. Like it or leave it. Since, like some of you said, it is Marvel's products.

They can do whatever they want.

In the lines of entertainment business. Their profits comes from people being entertained.
Iron-man as a brand and product has already become memories for many readers. Tinkering it till the point Iron-man cease to become Iron-man would mean causing irritating among fans.

Iron-man has hallmarks. His armors, his personal demon with drinks, his heart, kept alive by technologies he invented. His stand as a weapon developer. He being an American and his reaction to the outside world.

Removed all of it. What is Iron-man?

It is pretty tiring to see people keep saying " There are many people who like the game, it is just the minority who doesn't "

For once, open up your eyes and look. Reviews are really split.

If you have a product once so well loved by many, which now opinion got so split between fans.

What Blizzard has achieved?

Emotions and memories are part of the factors why some people choose to like or love or hate.
Edited by Dutchmilk#6229 on 12/10/2012 10:14 PM PST
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So many blizzard staffs disguising in this forum using non-titled accounts.
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Am I the only one who thinks D2 was good pre-expansion?

I never owned the expansion pack cause I was 12 when I played it and I still threw hundreds of hours into the game.
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It's an unnecessary argument if you like D3. D3 is a better game than D2 was in any form. Your basic assumption is based on the opinions of only the people who agree with you.


I tend to agree with you on principle, generally whatever garbage the forum spews is wrong.
However the only aspects which I believe Diablo 3 is superior is the actual combat and the fact that you don't have to re-roll an entire character to try a different spell.


Yup. Frankly the combat is just win. I'd love to see skill trees come back. I don't mean to say that I don't want to be able to respec, I do, I just want both. Like GW or BL2, or even like D2:LoD. Ideally it wouldn't be that expensive/hard to respec, but it worked. It added a level of character customization. I don't JUST take these 5 skills, I take a little of this skill, a bit of that, a **** ton of this and ALL of that. IT was just an extra layer of thought/customization.

That said, combat is a huge part of it, and D3 did a reasonable upgrade on that. I just wish they would allow me to play MPs that are more challenging/fun without gimping my ability to get good stuff.

I would also like to mention that D2 is, to this DAY filled with random crap that doesn't belong in any co-op game. Frozen orbs hitting an enemy make them immune to more frozen orbs and half the other skills in the game for a certain number of frames. This includes the proc on, wisp projector? I don't recall. You couldn't use half the items in the game with a sorc in the party for fear your 7 damage item proc would negate her massive damage Frorbs for the next 2 seconds or so. People didn't know about these things for the most part, but they were lazy, poorly implemented fixes to simple physics problems and they are still in the game.
Edited by Guybrush#1585 on 12/11/2012 12:18 AM PST
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Also, everyone needs to remember that ATVI is a publicly traded company FIRST. Unfortunately their primary responsibility is to their shareholders. Of course without good games they cannot achieve pleasing shareholders, but one must keep this in mind as it comes before pretty much all else.

With that in mind, there was definitely a revenue purpose set in the foundation of the way THIS game was designed (items/AH driven) and that founding idea ripples through everything else that this game is, could have been, and will be in the future.

The nature of gaming and the revenue that games generate is VERY different from the way it was 10+ years ago. I LOVED the old Warcraft games but have never touched the online/ monthly subscription WoW; it doesn't interest me.

I hated that in D2 if you ran up against a mob that was immune to all of the skills you selected (wiz) you were out of luck and had to re-roll, re-level and try again. A "mistake" in your build was a costly one. I like that I am not locked into skill set in D3. D2 did feel more expansive and had much better itemization though.
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Bashiok and jay wilson talking about D3 http://youtu.be/WqXltcnOMCY
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