Diablo® III

11 Options to fix Reflects Damage

12/16/2012 12:38 PMPosted by Chillaxin
Then spend the 1bil to get AR, loh, and LS on every piece possible. Otherwise stop crying that reflect eats you because you refuse to use what's available to you to counter it.


I have the life steal. It heals me 5k-7k per hit.

Do you honestly think getting 2k life on hit will do anything? It won't even dent the problem. Life on hit is very useless for high dps demonhunters.

That leaves the last choice. All resistance, which once I get my mempo, i'll have over 500. This is really high for a demon hunter and already quite expensive. I could sacrifice my 10disc in my chest and get 80 more, I have a good resist pants in the stash that will put me over 600 resistance but getting much more than that is pushing it. It doesn't solve the problem. Fixing the bugs with reflect damage will solve the problem and the Admin agree with me. Whats you're reasoning for fighting a positive change that is going to happen?


Making an already easy game even more handicap-friendly is a positive change? HAHAHAHA. Look at the post above you, he doesn't even need to gloom. Just because you're incompetent doesn't mean everyone else is.
12/16/2012 12:38 PMPosted by Chillaxin
Then spend the 1bil to get AR, loh, and LS on every piece possible. Otherwise stop crying that reflect eats you because you refuse to use what's available to you to counter it.


I have the life steal. It heals me 5k-7k per hit.

Do you honestly think getting 2k life on hit will do anything? It won't even dent the problem. Life on hit is very useless for high dps demonhunters.

That leaves the last choice. All resistance, which once I get my mempo, i'll have over 500. This is really high for a demon hunter and already quite expensive. I could sacrifice my 10disc in my chest and get 80 more, I have a good resist pants in the stash that will put me over 600 resistance but getting much more than that is pushing it. It doesn't solve the problem. Fixing the bugs with reflect damage will solve the problem and the Admin agree with me. Whats you're reasoning for fighting a positive change that is going to happen?


More AR won't hurt but you need more armor. You have enough armor for 125K DPS right now. If you add approximately 1000 armor and drop close to 50K DPS your toon will start surviving. Or you can add at least 1500 armor points at your present DPS.

Looking at your gear piece by piece it's great. But when you combine them together they suck. You've made some crappy decisions for playing the actual game. You should be playing the Auction House instead.
i think rd is lame you you should survive with skills not items.
12/16/2012 01:24 PMPosted by rye
i think rd is lame you you should survive with skills not items.


l think the entire game is lame, you should be able to survive with skill using level 10 gear. ltems are dumb to use.
Two quick things:

1) We're looking to redesign how the Reflects Damage affix works, as well as make it so that pet damage will no longer reflect back on the player. I went into a bit more detail here. (I believe the buff while active will have some sort of visual indicator, too.)

2) After seeing a number of posts from players about RD dealing what they felt to be TOO much damage (especially from minions), we did some additional testing and discovered that Rare minions with the affix were in fact doing more damage than intended. This is an issue we have scheduled to fix in an upcoming patch.

I'm not sure if these points would change your opinions at all on the subject, but I felt the information was worth pointing out. :)


nerf reflects =barb imba ....
Edited by Billybob#2412 on 12/16/2012 3:39 PM PST
In real life the warrior/soldier with the best gear usually survives. Why shouldn't the same principle apply to a fighting game? And I assure you that skill is still a major part of this game if you play it on the higher MP levels. Of course if RD is nerfed a little less skill will be required.
Im glad to hear that they are going to remove reflect from pets. IT never seemed right that i should be taking their dmg. I have never liked the whole idea of reflect damage. It never seemed right that i can hurt or even kill myself by attacking. It is however part of the game no matter if i like it or not. It does create some challenge but it doesnt feel like the fun kind of challenge. It just means i cant always just melt elites with big bursts of damage......but i like big bursts of dmg :(

but enough QQ its seems to be working about like it should IMO
12/16/2012 06:02 PMPosted by Slay
In real life the warrior/soldier with the best gear usually survives. Why shouldn't the same principle apply to a fighting game?

What an absolutely ridiculous parable, but alright, I play along. In real life, the more damage your gun does usually leads to you winning more battles. Why shouldn't the same principle apply to a fighting game?
12/16/2012 01:02 PMPosted by Slay
Looking at your gear piece by piece it's great. But when you combine them together they suck.


Are you kidding me?

We have the same EHP. Telling me that I'm required to get more when I'm already overgeared is a joke.

Anyone saying reflect damage doesn't need to be fixed enjoys trolling and/or low dps.

I can't even understand why support reflects damage so much when it has been proven to be bugged. It is going to be fixed. Your side of the argument has already lost. U mad?
Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 12/16/2012 9:21 PM PST
12/16/2012 09:16 PMPosted by Chillaxin
Looking at your gear piece by piece it's great. But when you combine them together they suck.


Are you kidding me?

We have the same EHP. Telling me that I'm required to get more when I'm already overgeared is a joke.

Anyone saying reflect damage doesn't need to be fixed enjoys trolling and/or low dps.

I can't even understand why support reflects damage so much when it has been proven to be bugged. It is going to be fixed. Your side of the argument has already lost. U mad?


Blizzard hasn't said what they plan to do so my side hasn't lost yet. They will probably just add an aura to RD packs so you'll still be crying as you run away from RD like a little girl.

Your toon isn't overgeared, it's over dps'ed for your defensive capabilities. That doesn't mean RD is bugged, it means your decisions have been poorly thought out.

Anyone calling for a RD nerf is a troll who isn't smart enough to play the game in front of them.
12/17/2012 04:33 AMPosted by Slay
Blizzard hasn't said what they plan to do so my side hasn't lost yet. They will probably just add an aura to RD packs so you'll still be crying as you run away from RD like a little girl.


1.)
11/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Lylirra
we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player.


2.)
12/10/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Lylirra
I believe the buff while active will have some sort of visual indicator, too


3.)
12/10/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Lylirra
Rare minions with the affix were in fact doing more damage than intended. This is an issue we have scheduled to fix in an upcoming patch.


Those 3 are going to happen. All 3 will reduce damage players take from reflects damage and will fix the problem with reflects damage completely. The change is going to happen and your desperate fight against the change is pointless. It is for the best and it will be a done deal.

This fourth one also MAY happen. It would be a fantastic addition but is not set in stone :)

4.)
11/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Lylirra
We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically
Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 12/17/2012 4:55 AM PST
Posts: 6,910
Here are my opinions on your 11 points.

12/08/2012 07:11 PMPosted by Chillaxin
1.) Allow dexterity a chance to dodge ticks of reflect damage.

A good idea in theory, But would only work if armour and AR really reduced reflect damage too to make it fair for all classes.

12/08/2012 07:11 PMPosted by Chillaxin
2.) Give all classes the "30% damage reduction" that melee's have to use against reflects damage

Sure . . . if you want to give the melee classes uber ranged skills too. Seriously though very bad idea. Ranged have ranged skills, melee don't hence the 30%.

3.) Allow life steal to roll on something other than weapons.

Learn to love Life regen. It rolls on armour pieces.

4.) Cap reflects damage to do as much as standing in an arcane beam (Do you think it should hit harder than arcane beams?)

Yes. The more glass a player is the more it should hurt. Makes people have to think on how to beat them. Or play tank and just laugh at reflect.

5.) Cap reflects damage to only come from 1 source or allow it to only be on 1 mob in the group at a time and not every mob in the group.

Then you'd have to cap every other monster affix to 1 too. Not a good idea.

6.) Make reflects damage toggle on after a couple seconds of engaging a player.

If this was not abusable to people could only attack when it's not active then sure. This is a good idea.

7.) Cap the range of reflects damage so It won't hit you if you're 30 yards away.

Then ranged will never get hit by reflect damage cause they'll kite from far away. And melee will always feel it. Not fair. Bad idea.

8.) Cap reflects damage to do no more than XX% of the players health per second.

A nice idea in theory. But the whole point of reflect is to become harder to beat the more glass the character is. capped at a % of your health just means high dps glass with some LS will just attack a lot and out heal the reflect. Making heavy glass characters better for reflect and that's not the idea. Quite the opposite actually.

9.) Make reflects damage unable to hurt when the player is below 10% health and unable to do lethal damage.

So ranged just spam the elites at range and will never kill them cause skilled ranged players can avoid direct elite hits. This effectively negates the pain of reflect. Reflect is supposed to hurt high dps players.

10.) Make critical hits reflect the same amount of damage as a normal hit.

So players with tiny non crit hits but large crits and large LS from crits will never feel reflect damage. Again your idea makes glass have an easier time. Reflect is meant to cause glass pain. So bad idea from you.

12/08/2012 07:11 PMPosted by Chillaxin
11.) Turn the damage reflected into a ball of energy that appears over the mobs head for 1 second (spirit bomb?!) then fires at the player allowing the player a chance to react and skill dodge

A very nice idea in theory. But then it just becomes a frozen or a molten explosion. everyone just runs away from it. People think jailer is nasty cause it has no delay. If you had it so the beam from reflect as you put it always hut the player (can't be dodged or blocked) but can be line of sight dodged. Ie only way to avoid being hit by it was to run behind a wall or pillar. That might possibly work. But the hurt from getting from it would have to be pretty high to balance it.
Edited by the8thark#1241 on 12/17/2012 5:03 AM PST
Posts: 6,910
My idea for reflect is to have it like shielding. As in:
Reflect is not always active on a monster. It's periodically on and off. When it's off, no reflect hurt. But when it is on, the reflect hurt would be instant and very painful. To the point of killing careless players.

This would make people control their dps and not just fire at everything that moves, adding an element of skill. And also not trivialising the affix, cause the pain for hitting the monster while reflect is on would be very high.
My idea for reflect is to have it like shielding. As in:
Reflect is not always active on a monster. It's periodically on and off. When it's off, no reflect hurt. But when it is on, the reflect hurt would be instant and very painful. To the point of killing careless players.

That would in my opinion be much, much worse. It would be just like it was in Diablo 2 with Iron Maiden; you look at the monster, see that no RD is active and decide to attack but in the exact moment you press your attack button it turns on and you die. For ranged heroes it's even worse since your attacks are lagged by the time it takes for your first attack to reach the edge of the screen, which is about three seconds for Ball Lightning. It would be absolutely impossible for a Demon Hunter to predict what's going to happen three seconds ahead of time.

Just toss the whole affix in the bin, it has zero use in a game such as this.
A very nice idea in theory. But then it just becomes a frozen or a molten explosion. everyone just runs away from it.


Allowing player alertness and skill to skillfully dodge reflects damage is very reasonable. This is a pretty reasonable request for an action RPG.

4.) Cap reflects damage to do as much as standing in an arcane beam (Do you think it should hit harder than arcane beams?)

Yes. The more glass a player is the more it should hurt. Makes people have to think on how to beat them. Or play tank and just laugh at reflect.


You're absolutely 100% wrong. Having mandatory damage hit harder than the "avoid this or pay the price" damage is absolutely backwards and defeats the purpose of having a range classes in the game.

The entire point of playing ranged is having the ability to avoid getting hit. If ranged characters are forced to take mandatory damage that hits harder than anything else in the game, there is absolutely no point in playing ranged. Instead just play melee and do the same DPS AND be tankier.

Absolute mandatory unavoidable damage should NEVER hit harder than the avoidable damage.
12/17/2012 05:21 AMPosted by Chillaxin
The entire point of playing ranged is having the ability to avoid getting hit. If ranged characters are forced to take mandatory damage that hits harder than anything else in the game, there is absolutely no point in playing ranged. Instead just play melee and do the same DPS AND be tankier.

Exactly. Ranged classes are by nature 'glass cannons', it's the whole point of the class, hell one of the ranged classes in this game even has a skill called Glass Cannon. It would make precisely zero sense for a game developer to promote glass cannon builds only to make them suffer the most from the hardest hitting thing in the game.
12/17/2012 05:21 AMPosted by Chillaxin
The entire point of playing ranged is having the ability to avoid getting hit.


Exactly. What is the point of being ranged if you're required to wear more defence gear than the melee characters???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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