Diablo® III

11 Options to fix Reflects Damage

12/10/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Ziggro
I have yet to ever see any barb or monk complain about it, it's always been ranged.

There u go, im a barb and even with 600 ar 6k armor 50k hp 5.2 ls i have trouble with RD.


162k dps, 639 LPS, around 300 LoH, 5.6% LS 620AR and around 5000 armor with STI.

The reflects damage minions totally destroy me in high MPs.
12/10/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Lylirra
we did some additional testing and discovered that Rare minions with the affix were in fact doing more damage than intended.


Hotfix it?
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12/10/2012 09:33 PMPosted by Naz
I personally have no problem with the way it is now but if it had been tested it could have been polished a bit better then it is now.


We were honestly pretty happy with the way RD functioned prior to 1.0.5, and thought it was in a good place in terms of balance. That changed, of course, whenever we implemented Monster Power and reduced defensive bonuses in 1.0.5. After reviewing player feedback post-patch and reexamining the affix as a whole, we decided that it could use some improvements. Overall, we think the affix will be much more manageable (if not potentially more enjoyable) as a result. That doesn't mean our earlier opinion was wrong, though, it just existed under a different set of conditions.
Edited by Lylirra on 12/10/2012 9:55 PM PST
We already have waited for quite long, we can wait for a little longer.

Since they're going to redo a reflect system, hotfix-ing will be a waste of time when it will be gone in the next patch.
Why not treat it like an IM curse? Just turn it on and off occasionally. You still need to be aware when it's on, while dealing with the other affixes on the monster.
Reflect is one of the things they did right, proof is in the cry babies
12/10/2012 09:10 PMPosted by Naz
This is what and why everyone is so frustrated for... there are so many simple problems like this that exist it's just to much to even attempt to list. So simple that an hour or two worth of testing would have solved from the beginning.
My monk (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Chickenstrip-1143/hero/28262349) stands in mobs of RD without losing a single bit of health on MP7. Defense is not hard to add to gear.
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Thanks for the feedback it's much appreciated. I will be the first to come out and admit I jumped the gun on my first post and did not spend enough effort on actually taking a look at the difference and changes that came in 1.0.5 for that I was wrong and apologize for my spur of the moment post especially about the devs. I guess we all just expect beyond perfect because that's what Blizzard has always delivered but along the journey we failed and forgot to realize we are all just humans and mistakes still happen every so often. Even though RD is not a huge problem atm or game breaking it's nice to see you guys & gals acknowledging and willing to still fix or work upon very small problems also.

Like I said before I'm overly excited for the pet rework for all classes it will make encountering RD packs more enjoyable for any class that uses pets. Can't wait to see what other slight changes will come regarding RD.


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Lylirra, could you also relay to the devs that their nuking our proc coefficients (instead of making say, the Legendary procs their own category and coefficients) also impacted how we can deal with RD? Demon Hunters having most of their skills have few, or no procs for LoH means that combined with our defensive nerf (which was higher than any other class by far), we've been having to gear solely for this affix and losing a great deal of enjoyable playstyle because of it.

I don't really want RD removed, but at least for Demon Hunters, our defensive nerf should be eased up a bit to match up with the other classes at least. It'd sure make RD a lot more manageable for us.

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The quickest and easiest solution Lylirra is to just give ranged a 30% damage reduction to ranged attacks which would include RD.

I have yet to ever see any barb or monk complain about it, it's always been ranged.


Yaaaaah, no >_> Monks don't have up to 12% lifesteal like barbs ;)
Guess I'm gonna be the first monk 'comlaining', aka describing what the problem is for me ;)

Running around with up to 158K DPS unbuffed, depending on the gear I am using. Which means when accompanied by my Scoundrel and his "hysteria", 15% more damage from my healing spell, 30% from blinding flash and 24%/48% more from mantra of conviction, I easily hit 350K DPS (+mantra) when encountering an elite mob.
So, jumping in, popping my buffs and the second or third hit kills me. So I got used to pop serenity everytime I jump into a group of elites and kill them within 4 seconds.
But there are situations with high HP elites or double packs with serenity on cooldown... >_>

Using only a butcher's sickle with 2.50 life steal at the moment but even when swapping my amulet for a life on hit one as well as my Natalya's ring for one with life on hit on, it doesn't help anymore.
Got additional weapons in my stash with additional lifesteal and VIT, an Inna's helm with All Res, an Ouroboros with Lifesteal and so on. For MP5 to MP7 i already need to go down to 140K or even 120K DPS (with Stone of Jordan) just to have the lifesteal to keep me alive fighting 5 elite packs before doing Ubers.
In addition I need to use One with Everything and Seize The Initiative (more resistances, more armor) and still: I am killing myself in three blows. :/
(~520 All res, 5300 Armor, 2,5% Life steal)

Reflect is a fun mechaninc, but when you're at a point in this game with above 150K DPS, sub 15 minutes Act 3 speed runs and just charging from pack to pack with +50% movement speed you're dead before you had the chance to read what affixes the mobs have.

Now imagine a monk that fuels his life bubble by lifesteal and you get teleport, fast, minion, reflect damage elite mobs and got your serenity on cooldown or you play on MP7 and can't kill them within 4 seconds. That is the situation which makes you feel absolutely helpless.

Monks cannot kite. Whenever we can't facetank and have to run away, we're ash.

( http://d3up.com/b/44170 )
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Edited by DanielH#2965 on 12/10/2012 10:46 PM PST
why are dh complaining about rd? just gloom/build for perma gloom.

why are you complaining about your proc rates? (anyway loh works best if you have high mitigation where eg: loh of 1000 is a large huge percentage of your ehp)

you have skills with proc rates > 0.5 (devouring arrow = 0.65, thunderball 0.5, cluster/stun granades 0.5, shock collar 1.6, nt 0.5)

unlike eg: meteor 0.1 or spectral blades 0.14 or electrocute forked lightning 0.167, disintergrate 0.222,
Edited by chrisloup#6305 on 12/10/2012 10:43 PM PST
fix inferno damage by 90%! case solved!
Edited by ChangWu#1138 on 12/10/2012 10:50 PM PST
12/10/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Lylirra
2) After seeing a number of posts from players about RD dealing what they felt to be TOO much damage (especially from minions), we did some additional testing and discovered that Rare minions with the affix were in fact doing more damage than intended. This is an issue we have scheduled to fix in an upcoming patch.


Thank you so much. Waking up to see this post gave me very much relief. I was tired of arguing with forum trolls who say reflects damage is "working as intended" when it is obviously not. Your revisions to reflects damage that you mentioned are very welcomed and I am extremely grateful.

Thank you.
Love the feed back, thanks for taking the time to listen and reply. I'm glad to hear that our feedback (about rare minion packs especially) was heard and is being acted upon!

I would just like to add that I don't think RD should interupt channeling (mainly and issue for reviving allies). It inappropriately punishes people that use dots, especially dots like haunt. I mean sure, the skills not really any good, but since I'm already being punished for taking it in the first place, why should I have to wait 8 seconds before I can even attempt to revive an ally?

Dots in general just don't work well against RD. My health starts to drop, I'm worried I'll die, so I break off, but continue taking significant damage simply because my dots are still going. Not a huge issue, except a LOT of dots (read vast majority) don't proc LoH over their duration (or hardly at all).

I was having this issue with zombie dogs and acid cloud against uber siege breaker the other day. Very annoying, glad you're fixing the dogs (I mean, it's not like they're doing any damage anyway...)

It's kind of different discussion, but it seems unfair that dex doesn't work as a survival mechanism against some of the scariest affixes in the game (RD included). If you were to take the affixes/attacks that can't be dodged and simply have dex apply similarly to strength and int in those cases there would be a few benefits.

1. Dex would now be just as useful a survival stat as the other two (perhaps slightly moreso, may want to tweak the equation for balance at reasonable armor/AR levels and 2k main stat.)
2. This buff alone would probably be enough to allow some significant changes (nerfs) to the increadibly OP OWE that you've mentioned wanting to change (so it won't be manditory) without completely killing the class.
3. If you make ONLY dex mitigate these attacks/affixes you won't accidentally buff other things that give dodge that are already balanced (WotB, MoE:Personally I think this need a buff..., players in general getting more benefit from 500 dex than the last 1500).

Again, thanks for your time!
Edited by Guybrush#1585 on 12/10/2012 11:06 PM PST
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12/10/2012 11:00 PMPosted by Chillaxin
Thank you so much. Waking up to see this post gave me very much relief. I was tired of arguing with forum trolls who say reflects damage is "working as intended" when it is obviously not. Your revisions to reflects damage that you mentioned are very welcomed and I am extremely grateful.


Sure thing! I'm afraid I don't have much more information than that for you at the moment, though.
Can't wait for PvP when everyone who dies to reflect now will die because their character isn't balanced...what will you cry to have nerfed then?
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