Diablo® III

11 Options to fix Reflects Damage

12/10/2012 09:07 PMPosted by Deadlysynz
I have yet to ever see any barb or monk complain about it, it's always been ranged


must be becuse the ranged are p.u.s.s.y.s rofl oh and maby they dont have Loh and res to
11 Options to fix Reflects Damage?????

Why fix someting that isent broken??

dont think blizz can nerf the game more now, even retards can play it now well seems exept the DH lol

Plz blizz dont bother about it Reclect damage is fun, and makes me laugh everytime i see a dh cry lol
Two quick things:

1) We're looking to redesign how the Reflects Damage affix works, as well as make it so that pet damage will no longer reflect back on the player. I went into a bit more detail [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7006893362?page=2#31"]here[/url]. (I believe the buff while active will have some sort of visual indicator, too.)

2) After seeing a number of posts from players about RD dealing what they felt to be TOO much damage (especially from minions), we did some additional testing and discovered that Rare minions with the affix were in fact doing more damage than intended. This is an issue we have scheduled to fix in an upcoming patch.

I'm not sure if these points would change your opinions at all on the subject, but I felt the information was worth pointing out. :)


How about removing it from the game entirely?

Diablo is about doing as much damage as possible, RD directly negates that and has no place in the game whatsoever. It is, at best, a questionable design choice.
We should also stop the monsters from attacking.

If this game was more like Nintendo's Duck Hunt but with items drops that were all perfects rolls, it would be better.
I think the main problem is that all the monsters from the pack reflects simultaneously, when it is a yellow elite and its three minions it's just too much damage too take when they're grouped together and take AoE damages.
With my monk I mainly do mp1 runs, when encountering the RD affixe (I have a very peculiar gameplay, spamming wave of light) with just one bell, let's say two, (wich hits 3 times where it lands) I can kill myself if I hit the entire pack, I don't actually die but that's all thanks to serenity.
On higher MP levels (5+), it takes me quite some time to kill a pack, RD doesn't seem to deal much damage to me.
This is almost as annoying as being constantly frozen till you're dead when you get frozen once and then again before the effect vanishes, there is simply no temporary immunity to crowd control effects as stun and frozen.
Good luck making a good PvP with that ^^
When it's the player doing it to the monsters it's fun (CM wiz, myself with my monk when I switch to the WoL rune wich stuns on critical hits, remember hits 3 times, 30%CC and good spirit regen and it's almost perma stun, good for übers), but when it's the other way around that's no longer fun.
It don't think it only concerns CC effects as the green attack from heralds of pestilence seems stackable, one just deals a tremendous amount of damage but when several of them cast their green AoE at the same spot it's just ridiculous as you cannot see the difference and end up instantly dead.
I might be wrong about the heralds, I haven't been doing above mp1 runs in quite some time, but I wanted to say my opinion about this aspect of the game where some spells/effects are stackable and it's just boring.
12/10/2012 10:27 PMPosted by TheTias
Lylirra, could you also relay to the devs that their nuking our proc coefficients (instead of making say, the Legendary procs their own category and coefficients) also impacted how we can deal with RD? Demon Hunters having most of their skills have few, or no procs for LoH means that combined with our defensive nerf (which was higher than any other class by far), we've been having to gear solely for this affix and losing a great deal of enjoyable playstyle because of it.


I know the reason given for the proc nerfs were for legendaries, and really no offense to anyone at blizzard, but that's just not the case, or was the case, but then they changed legendaries to not proc anymore, not sure which.

I was making a Witch Proctor a while back before I realized that there is literally not a single abuseable legendary in terms of proc. When I say abuseable, I mean better with higher proc rates. Skorn's bleeds aren't strong enough anymore (they are icing, but nothing to build around) sky splitter's got an internal CD (as it should) Buriza/azurewrath deal too little damage to actually use on your own character, Maximus and similar have a max of one proc at a time out anyway, and most actually work on attack, not on proc.

Long story short blizzard mislead you when they said this is why they reduced your procs, or intentionally lied. I'd like to think the former, but...
12/10/2012 11:10 PMPosted by StCamber
Can't wait for PvP when everyone who dies to reflect now will die because their character isn't balanced...what will you cry to have nerfed then?


Diablo "Eltine" (Chillaxin#1429)

Paragon Level: 72
world: 26418 (dh: 5061)
Americas: 9605 (dh: 1679)
Heroscore: 15,349
world: 4228 (dh: 1675)
Americas: 1282 (dh: 511)
DPS Unbuffed: 210,367.39
world: 5367 (dh: 2182)
Americas: 1639 (dh: 662)
EHP Unbuffed: 592,841
world: 50K+ (dh: 2455)
Americas: 32443 (dh: 1228)

Molten does 3k damage per second to me
Arcane beams does 7k damage per second to me
Hitting a Reflects damage group does 50k+ damage per second do me.

See what is imbalanced now?
Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 12/10/2012 11:32 PM PST
Blizz, please also take a look at how Reflect Damage interacts with certain other affixes, especially with Electrified and Health Link.
Against a pack (even blue elite) with all 3 of those affixes my barb kills himself pretty much instantly, and the damage seems way out of line compared to what reflect usually does.
I play a glass cannon wizard and I've learned how to get around RD. I love the challenge it provides thus making my play experience more enjoyable. Learn to tailor your skills and try out new options and you may find ways to deal with unexpected situations. I like spectral blades with healing blades rune. Damage vs life gain almost balances itself out.

Since I'm not using that run in the mean time I've learned to adapt different techniques that, although not very efficient, I still survive most of the time and occasionally die. Live and learn.
Posts: 209
12/10/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Lylirra
1) We're looking to redesign how the Reflects Damage


thats all anyone wanted to hear, no class can really do higher mp levels without getting utterly destroyed with reflect dmg, it limits the ways you can play also, unless ur barb w/ 12% lifesteal

Molten does 3k damage per second to me
Arcane beams does 7k damage per second to me
Hitting a Reflects damage group does 50k damage per second do me.

See what is imbalanced now?


Nats Embrace: No resist. No damage reduction. Crappy Chest.

Inna Pants (AKA Deathtrap): No Resist.

Andy Helm: Extra fire damage and you guessed it, no resist.

See the trend? Your armor is low too.

Who cares what Diabloprogress says, if you die all the time your build needs to be fixed. If you don't want to fix it, then live with the results.
12/10/2012 11:03 PMPosted by Lylirra
Sure thing! I'm afraid I don't have much more information than that for you at the moment, though.


You gave great information, thanks again.

Also, I don't know if you're aware:
Demon hunters take more damage from reflects damage than any other class
Here is proof:

As a demon hunter, I have 3,000+ of my main stat (dexterity) It does not reduce the damage from reflects damage at all.

As a barbarian, I would have 3,000 bonus armor AND 30% damage mitigation for being melee

As a wizard or Witchdoctor I would have 300 bonus all resistance

As a monk I would have 30% bonus damage mitigation for being melee.

Demon hunters take the most damage from reflects damage. No one can say that is fair or balanced that we have to gear more survivability than any other class in order to not kill ourselves.
Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 12/10/2012 11:53 PM PST
12/10/2012 11:37 PMPosted by StCamber
Who cares what Diabloprogress says,


Yeah, who cares that 1 affix spikes and can do 600+ EHP in damage within 1 second even on monster power 0? Right?
Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 12/10/2012 11:42 PM PST
Hey guys I gear for dps and die to reflect and complain. I don't know mechanics and overshoot my survivability. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Hey guys I gear for dps and die to reflect and complain. I don't know mechanics and overshoot my survivability. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


Diablo "Furioshobo" (Mystichobo#1700)
EHP Unbuffed: 508,496
world: 50K+ (barb: 50K+)
Americas: 50K+ (barb: 34826)

I have more survivability than you, and you're a barbarian who gets 3,000 bonus armor from strength.
12/10/2012 11:41 PMPosted by Chillaxin
Who cares what Diabloprogress says,


Yeah, who cares that 1 affix spikes and can do 600+ EHP in damage within 1 second? Right?


LTP.

Carry an extra weapon specifically for reflect. Learn how to use gloom or shadow power. Stack damage reduction.

I can stand in Ghom's poison on MP7 and not die using a Manti with gloom. I can tank Rak and Siege. Seige can bounce me off the ground and it does nothing.

Life isn't fair. The game has shown you a flaw in your build and instead of solving the problem or using skill, you and people like you cry about it.

How much DPS do you do when you're dead?
I farm Mp4 with 350k EHP. I have 7.1% life steal (with blood magic) and 400 loh. Right now I don't take damage from reflect alone, but of course mobs have other affixes. So basically RD counters my lifesteal and makes it possible for me to die at a level where nothing else can kill me. Its not the worst thing, but it is by far the strongest affix.

Molten does 3k damage per second to me
Arcane beams does 7k damage per second to me
Hitting a Reflects damage group does 50k damage per second do me.

See what is imbalanced now?


Nats Embrace: No resist. No damage reduction. Crappy Chest.

Inna Pants (AKA Deathtrap): No Resist.

Andy Helm: Extra fire damage and you guessed it, no resist.

See the trend? Your armor is low too.

Who cares what Diabloprogress says, if you die all the time your build needs to be fixed. If you don't want to fix it, then live with the results.


You, and everyone else, seem to be missing the point dramatically. The issue here is not that RD does **** tons of damage, or that it's challenging. It's that it does DRAMATICALLY more **** tons of damage and is near impossible, when compared to other affixes. When your character can STAND IN AN ARCANE BEAM, a HIGHLY avoidable skill based PURPLE laser on a specific MP, but can't survive RD 3 MPs lower, that's not ok. I'm losing out on challenging content because I'm forced to play FAR below my effective level. Sure, those RD packs are challenging, I have to swap a weapon (oh wow, so hard) and take longer (yeah, that's a lot of fun) and then just swat away every other elite pack as if they're nothing. No sir, not great balance there.
LTP.

Carry an extra weapon specifically for reflect. Learn how to use gloom or shadow power. Stack damage reduction.


My gear will be perfectly fine once the changes are implemented. Thanks for the advice tho.
Demon Hunters having most of their skills have few, or no procs for LoH means that combined with our defensive nerf (which was higher than any other class by far), we've been having to gear solely for this affix and losing a great deal of enjoyable playstyle because of it.

I don't really want RD removed, but at least for Demon Hunters, our defensive nerf should be eased up a bit to match up with the other classes at least. It'd sure make RD a lot more manageable for us.


I think Monks got the award for the class with the worst to have any proc. Only Fist of Thunder have effective proc which automatically preposition yourself. Where else other skills have so tiny aoe for proc.

Not that I disagree buffing DH proc, I wish to have remaining 3 classes to have their fair share in 'proc'. The 3 being Monk, DH and Wiz though wizard still have Energy Twister/Meteors but their proc chance is as good as nothing.

Suggestions I like to see proc buff happened: -
Sweeping wind + Ally => Monk
Chakram => DH
Magic Missle => Wiz

Last but not least is seeing that skills don't change their elemental types. WD basically cannot do any cold attacks.
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