Diablo® III

Guide: Sword vs Axe/Mace

12/10/2012 09:14 PMPosted by Celanian
BR also gives 3% extra CC, so it skews things even more. It's cleaner to leave out in game skills since there are so many skills that add damage or CC.


Well, no, not really, I see what huanAK is saying and it has some merit....the crit chance increase is 3%, which can still be factored into your formula if you so chose to do it. (WoTB 10% increase too) Because the max crit chance will always be 100%, your calculation works based upon that as a given.

However, if you take for granted that you will always be under the influence of a 15% damage increase, then that makes your base damage at a 115% rate, making and additional 15% on top of that less significant.

If I am at 115% base damage all the time, then a 15% damage increase (additive, not multiplicative) would only be 15/115 = 13% more total damage while using a sword.

The fact that most barbarians run around at 115% damage all the time changes the effectiveness of an additional 15% stacked on top of that.

Nubtro referenced this issue in his post too....the number in your OP are great for stat sheet, but in all practicality, I am wondering how functional they are.
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 12/10/2012 10:45 PM PST
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Do you want an alternate calc with BR and WotB assumed to be always on?
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12/10/2012 10:55 PMPosted by Celanian
Do you want an alternate calc with BR and WotB assumed to be always on?


No, just always assume at least the +15% damage +3% CC from stock battle rage is on.

Also assume Weapon Master + Ruthless are on.

Builds without battle rage are terribad.
Builds without Weapon Master + Ruthless are terribad.
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Ok, alternate calc assuming that you get a permanent 13% CC from BR and WotB and a permanent 15% damage from BR:

CC CD
30 297
35 349
40 423
45 536
50 732
55 1154
60 2727

The CC is your paper CC before buffs. So a 30 CC translates to a 43 CC in game due to buffs.

This calc only applies to those who have WotB on most of the time.

If you assume Killing Spree always on as well, the numbers are:

CC CD
30 423
35 536
40 732
45 1154
50 2727
55 Infinite
60 Infinite

With KS, BR, and WotB, you get a constant 23% in game CC added.
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BTW, you should change your hall of heroes to calculate the score based on weapon master + ruthless + stock Battle Rage as well, as this will show more realistic situations as well for that.
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Builds without battle rage are terribad.
Builds without Weapon Master + Ruthless are terribad.

You've got some tunnel vision going on there buddy.

Maybe those abilities are good but saying every build without them is bad shows both a lack of creativity and a closed mind.
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so according to the last 2 calculations, with BR, WotB and KS activated, everyone should be using swords? Those still aren't taking into account the WW/Sprint mechanics correct?
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01/08/2013 05:27 PMPosted by LordZeus
so according to the last 2 calculations, with BR, WotB and KS activated, everyone should be using swords? Those still aren't taking into account the WW/Sprint mechanics correct?


Yes, but they are unbuffed crit chance calculations and apply for stat sheet DPS....no WW mechanics involved. Put as much confidence in these calculations as you do with stat sheet DPS when building a WW barb.
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One thing to consider is that if you have extremely high CC with BR, WotB, and KS and use HotA as your main attack, it may be better to not use Weapon Master at all if you have an axe/mace. 10 CC when you're already at or near 100 is almost worthless. That passive slot could be used for something else that's better.
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01/08/2013 05:33 PMPosted by Wayneold
so according to the last 2 calculations, with BR, WotB and KS activated, everyone should be using swords? Those still aren't taking into account the WW/Sprint mechanics correct?


Yes, but they are unbuffed crit chance calculations and apply for stat sheet DPS....no WW mechanics involved. Put as much confidence in these calculations as you do with stat sheet DPS when building a WW barb.


Agree. Why use this table when you can plug in hypothetical weapons into d3rawr to see EXACTLY what you will get? There is so much more than paper dps that determines double nado in game dps.

I did this calc with someone's 300m sword with my set and added 10cc, 15cc and my mace still outperformed.
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12/10/2012 11:17 PMPosted by TehCommunism
BTW, you should change your hall of heroes to calculate the score based on weapon master + ruthless + stock Battle Rage as well, as this will show more realistic situations as well for that.


This doesn't really work because it leads to weird things like people moving sword to main hand to fool the calculator. The only way to be 'fair' would be to calc tdps for WW class barbs.... For other types of barb (hota) the calc would be more complicated because you would need to factor in what type of damage rotation they are doing (how much they lean on frenzy, wotb uptime, etc etc etc).

So short answer is, yes, the hall of godly barbs calc is flawed. But there's no simple fix you could make. You would need to do a full combat simulation, but that has its own flaws. Do you make it an AOE dps scenario or single target? How many targets makes sense...?? How do you factor WotB uptime? What if they have some other oddball build?
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So, basically, since I don't use ww, I can ditch my axe and get a better dmg sword, or even switch my MH and OH and I'd be better off? I need to come here more often :)
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