Diablo® III

[SCIENCE!] Disintegrate and APS

I just did another test with 49.5% CC and a higher APS difference (2.36 vs. 1.34). I don't have enough -AP gear for Disintegrate to channel it at the higher APS for an entire Archon cooldown, so I tried counting the number of CM procs in a DS refresh, over a sample of 10 or so DS casts. It looked like there was an effect of APS, since I was getting about 2-4 CM's per DS with the slower setup, and more like 5-7 with the higher setup.

This was just with gear I had lying around, though. With a better testing setup, I should be able to convince myself a lot more thoroughly. Gonna have to wait until later, though. Mean time, I oughtta update the OP.
Reply Quote
I've conducted a different testing about beam skills a while ago. Setup was only +min dmg equiped, leading to NO dmg variation (skills such as MM were hitting constant numbers)

- Hypothesis : the beam is discrete. Proof : a "graze-hit" does exist, always hitting for a fixed amount in my setup. In fact, it is exactly a fixed fraction of the weapon damage of the skill.
Disintegrate: 1/3
RoF: 1/2
Archon beam: 2/3

- Hypothesis : the "twice per second" hit thing is only a display of damage. Real ticks happen at a different rate and are combined in the display. Proof : maintain your beam on a mob long enough, you'll see the same few numbers popping. Not constant, because ticks can crit. The lowest of them is exactly Att Speed * 1/2 * weapon damage of the skill.

You also see, when stopping channeling, a very small number, which is the remaining part of a tick.

So, beams are discrete and tick at a rate proportional to your attack speed per second.

tl,dr: slow att speed means low AP consumption, few procs. Fast att speed means high AP consumption, frequent procs.
Edited by krali#2833 on 12/9/2012 3:48 AM PST
Reply Quote
So, beams are discrete and tick twice your attack speed per second


Well, holy mole, that's the opposite from what I read about archon laser beam!
Reply Quote

Well, holy mole, that's the opposite from what I read about archon laser beam!


I edited my post because dis, rof and archon beam have in fact different parameters.
Reply Quote
The dmg per tick is normalized so it includes IAS. So IAS does affect damage.
Reply Quote
12/09/2012 06:24 AMPosted by Sennin
The dmg per tick is normalized so it includes IAS. So IAS does affect damage.


Yes, for archon, sure it translates into more paper dps, but what do you mean by "normalized"?
Reply Quote
12/09/2012 10:29 AMPosted by jenpeezey
The dmg per tick is normalized so it includes IAS. So IAS does affect damage.


Yes, for archon, sure it translates into more paper dps, but what do you mean by "normalized"?


He's saying that attack speed increases dmg done by beam spells. which was already common knowledge...it just also increases cost/rate of AP consumption.
Reply Quote
12/07/2012 05:20 PMPosted by jenpeezey
So, beams are discrete and tick twice your attack speed per


Not sure if my info is useful but Witch Doctor has a Tactic called Fetish Sycophant which summons a Fetish at 5% per cast.

Rain of Toad has a secret hidden bonus in a way that it has 1.5x faster casting speed than other Primary since it is almost like stacking DoT on the monsters but it is NOT a true channeling skill. Your WD just casts 1.5x faster for some odd reasons. I used to think this is the best way to proc Fetish.

I was wrong!

WD has a skill called Firebats and 4 out of 5 runes are "true" channel skills. During my test of newly improved Firebats, I realize that I could proc Fetish out so fast.

Then I got curious. I did several key runs using very similar setup with Rain of Toads (1.5x faster) and Firebats and it turns out Firebats always beats Rain of Toad in terms of number of Fetish summoned at 5% chance.

I brought this up because the above results seem to be correct. Channel skills actually attack FASTER THAN 1.5X than what your weapon attack speed is. If Firebats beats Rain of Toad's 1.5x, then Firebats attacks at least TWICE 2x speed which is what the Quote says.

This means faster attack speeds means draining your mana pool faster but also proccing faster.

PS: A "true" channel skill can only proc Hellfire ONCE when you start the channeling. Rain of Toad can proc Hellfire during channeling so RoT is not a real channel skill even though the damage done is in stacking DoT format.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 12/9/2012 11:28 AM PST
Reply Quote
I just did another test with 49.5% CC and a higher APS difference (2.36 vs. 1.34). I don't have enough -AP gear for Disintegrate to channel it at the higher APS for an entire Archon cooldown, so I tried counting the number of CM procs in a DS refresh, over a sample of 10 or so DS casts. It looked like there was an effect of APS, since I was getting about 2-4 CM's per DS with the slower setup, and more like 5-7 with the higher setup.

This was just with gear I had lying around, though. With a better testing setup, I should be able to convince myself a lot more thoroughly. Gonna have to wait until later, though. Mean time, I oughtta update the OP.


I do think higher attack speed can proc more often because you are attacking faster (the two damage display is normalized) but just like what your test has shown. Faster attack speed also drains your resource much faster. This means balance is still need to be achieved because even if you are gaining CM more often, your "down time" is also longer due to not having enough resource.

Luckily, Wizard has Arcane on Critical, WD doesn't. T_T
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 12/9/2012 11:35 AM PST
Reply Quote
12/09/2012 06:24 AMPosted by Sennin
The dmg per tick is normalized so it includes IAS. So IAS does affect damage.


Hiya! I've played with you before. DanSky's friend?
Reply Quote
He's saying that attack speed increases dmg done by beam spells. which was already common knowledge...it just also increases cost/rate of AP consumption.


I know, but I was wondering why the use of "normalized"?
Reply Quote
12/09/2012 12:24 PMPosted by jenpeezey
He's saying that attack speed increases dmg done by beam spells. which was already common knowledge...it just also increases cost/rate of AP consumption.


I know, but I was wondering why the use of "normalized"?


Since the tooltip uses wording saying it does X% weapon damage, and assuming you still didn't know that the hidden ticks went faster with attack speed...

It would appear as if the two displayed ticks per second were normalized above just weapon damage to a number that accounted for attack speed.
Reply Quote
There's probably a better way to see if IAS changes procs using LoH with various attack speeds. If the proc rate changes with attack speed, the LoH returns will increase with attack speed, but you'll want to use a very wide variety of attack speeds, I recommend going from 1 to 2.51+. Using LoH instead of Archon CD negates the RNG of crits. Also, you didn't mention what your crit % was, which plays a huge role in the RNG of the experiment.

If I'm not mistaken, some people in europe did just that and the results are posted here: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5208511084

They concluded it has a tic rate of about 3*APS tics per second.


Dam... Those dudes in EU forum did a pretty thorough test!
Reply Quote
12/09/2012 01:09 PMPosted by BDF


I know, but I was wondering why the use of "normalized"?


Since the tooltip uses wording saying it does X% weapon damage, and assuming you still didn't know that the hidden ticks went faster with attack speed...

As far as I know, tooltip shows damage and AP cost per second for 1 APS.

Also, channeling spells are tied to the same breakpoint mechanics as Energy Twister.

See http://www.diablofans.com/topic/60725-ww-sprint-rltw-tick-frequency-mechanics/ for reference. Discussion around page 2
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]