Diablo® III

Proc / Toad / Acid Cloud Docs!

Soundb Please be nicer.

I have played toads/AC as my main setup since 1.0 (was an old school tankdoca back in the day). I found that if you hold down ROT and rapid fire AC at the same time you get this nice pacing were you are applying AC and ROT with just a fraction of a second between. The effect is much higher proc rates which means more LOH, More CC. The problem is that short of 130 mana regen and blood rites it's unsustainable. (even with it, it is slowly mana draining). This is how you get the highest proc rates I can find and how I like to roll. Now if you or anyone knows a better way to run toads/AC I am happy to learn and get better.
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When I talk about the same time I don`t mean that you cast AC, and freeze procs and the mob is frozen. Then you cast again and while the mob is frozen you get at stun proc. I`ve personally never seen a mob be Frozen/Stunned/Immobilized(where the word appears above the mobs head) in the same action. Even if it was only just a 1% chance of a 1% chance I still should have come across it in all the casts I`ve done(theoretically speaking). I know you can get a knock back and stun proc in the same action since knock back does not have a corresponding word associated with it .
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I agree Jimbob. The only CC that "stacks" with the others is knockback.
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12/07/2012 04:59 PMPosted by Soundb
also playing Acid Cloud as a primary is just stupid. It's not even possible. Spamming AC just means you are wasting mana by relapping the dot on the previous AC. And to get back the mana to spam AC again you cast more of a primary spell in the first place while you regen mana, so you aren't spamming AC as a primary anyways.


The dot on AC doesn't stack, but the proc chance stack with each cast, for some people aiming to be a proctor, spamming AC is a viable option. Not that i spam AC of course, my build is using RoT as a primary and AR every 3 seconds.
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I'm a partial proc doctor here, but my main usage of Cloud is for disabling, and speed farming low MP.

From what I understand about cc rules, it is bad to have all sorts of proc effects. I just stick with blind amulet / freeze belt / stun gloves. IMO, chill, knockback, slow, immobilize are all trash and only help the opponent become immune. It is fun to use, and helpful to the party, and can lock down bosses 90% of the time (because of increased resistance and immunity to cool-off).

I tried the knockback using strongarm bracers, it is mostly ineffective, all the main bosses are immune or too big to be knocked.

The set back is that items with WD stats plus the proc effect are extremely expensive (I realise that "expensive" is relative, I'm a budget player), and hard to find. Only a few (if any) show up in AH after all the search filters are applied.

Agree with the other players that Bears is still the high damage skill for high MP. This actually leads to the conflict of LoH vs LS (for Bear/Cloud, not considering 0 dog build). Since the gameplay style is 2-fold, the life sustain will need to have both LS on weapon and LoH on other gear.

Anyone wants to see the "lock-down" concept can add me in game.

I do seek advise too, I've been trying to add Soul Harvest into the skill build, but can't seem to remove any of the 6 currently in use against bosses (SW, Garg, Dogs, Bears, Cloud, RoT). Oh, I dish out poison dmg because I want to make full use of the Zuni poison stat.

Thanks in advance :)

@soundb, many of us don't have Wiz buddies, so it helps in our group that we're the spell caster disabling the enemies.
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jimbob/blackjack you are both wrong. cc effects can stack and multiple different cc effects can be triggered from the same attack or action or cc check tic.

and paulng ur zuni boots +%to poison dmg actually aplies to all forms of dmg and skills. its a straight boost to your weapons non elemental dmg, which you are making full use of just by using a "black weapon" such as skorn.
Edited by ChuckNorris#1885 on 12/8/2012 8:00 PM PST
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AR as a primary is good for low level MP, but otherwise I find it's not feasable. I used to have a procdoc setup when I just ran MP2, but bears are just so much faster for elites that it's worth giving up the procs for higher MP
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Love the chance to freeze/stun gear with ROT and AR, works wonders after 1.05 cc changes. I think there is a point of diminished returns, I feel around 10% chance total is the sweet spot. Played with a higher cc chance gear for awhile (around 13-14% total I believe) and noticed little difference in time elites were cc'd over using current gear at 11.2 %.

For what it's worth, I usually run mp3/4 for farming runs, mp8 for ubers with a group.

Ubers is where it ROT/AR with chance to freeze/stun really shines, can keep most things cc'd for nearly 90% of the entire fight with a high enough attack speed.
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@chuck
Do you have a referance? If you look at the effects a mon stuffers he only can have one name above his head at one time. (this is why I think i am right, but am happy to be proven wrong).
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@Bort, very jelly of your belt...
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All knowledge I provide on the forums is from first hand testing. why dont you grab urself some max cc gear and shoot a simple one proc attack like darts at some zombies on mp10 and you can prove yourself in less then 10 seconds.
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Chuck, dont you think i do that?
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not to be cocky, but obviously not, or you would know im right lol.
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12/08/2012 07:41 PMPosted by ChuckNorris
cc effects can stack and multiple different cc effects can be triggered from the same attack or action or cc check tic


I believe this is correct.

12/08/2012 08:14 PMPosted by Naruil
I used to have a procdoc setup when I just ran MP2, but bears are just so much faster for elites that it's worth giving up the procs for higher MP


I agree, but it's possible to have both cc procs + AR + Bears and still be efficient.
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3:1 Rot/AR casting/spamming ratio works great for me with 14% blind/freeze/stun. Locks 90% of the time.

anybody using Bad Medicine passive with this build? works well in groups imo
Edited by Baboy#1964 on 12/9/2012 6:47 PM PST
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@Chuck
I think these are actually difficult to judge from experiential evidence. The very low% per "cast" makes it hard to determine, at least for me.
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im sure its difficult for you to judge from your experience because of your low cc% but if you do what I suggested and get yourself some max cc gear its actually very easy and quick to test. fyi max cc from gear is 66%.
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@soundB you have your own ideas and opinion and that is fantastic, but please don't say its stupid to use acid as primary when this is our own idea.

CC do stacks, the graphic doesn't. I still see them bleed while frozen or stun. Even if they don't stack as some assume, it's even better isn't it? The CC will therefore not overlap each other, making total CC chance much higher.

In case somebody don't know or have forgotten. Pre-patch 1.03, WD totally couldn't play in inferno without using zombie bear dps, or burning doctors CC. The burning dogs user put in all sorts of CC regardless of how useless some of you feel, since it still improves the build somewhat. Fear, Knockback, some even said Blind.

If you limit yourself because you just one a single cc effect, you're limited to like 30% at best for freeze(azurewrath, belt, star ammy, offhand), or 15% for stun (glove, star,weapon) and you will be taking huge dip in your damage output.

http://www.d3own.com/max-105/witch-doctor/
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Again we didn't say they don't "stack" We are saying those that have a word that pops up associated with it(IE freeze/stun/immobilize/Fear)Can't proc in the same action. (IE Mob can't be frozen + bound in the same cast, but can be knock back and stunned in the same cast).
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12/13/2012 06:39 PMPosted by Jimbob
Again we didn't say they don't "stack" We are saying those that have a word that pops up associated with it(IE freeze/stun/immobilize/Fear)Can't proc in the same action. (IE Mob can't be frozen + bound in the same cast, but can be knock back and stunned in the same cast).


So it's still better to have multiple CC right? =)
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