Diablo® III

Anybody else gear with DPS:EHP ratio in mind?

UPDATE: TL;DR (based on discussion from thread)
It seems that there may be a consensus conclusion around the need to monitor some combination of DPS, EHP (non-dodge) and sustain due to the ongoing presence of RD elite & champion packs. There are also references made to some bugs being addressed by dev team about re: pet damage, minions and RD/Health Link combination. For more detailed information, check out the thread below.

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Most of us have been talking about maintaining something as close to 700 AR / 5K Armor as best we can, and keeping HP above 35K. At least, that's how I've considered my gearing approach. But I'm beginning to wonder about gearing with DPS : EHP ratio in mind, especially with the presence of RD elite / champion packs.

I used to think that a 1:4 ratio of DPS:EHP was good, but I'm finding that it's typically not good enough in mid-to-higher MPs with RD monsters since most of the damage I incur is self-inflicted. At this point, I'm wanting to spend most of my upgrades on increasing EHP rather than DPS. I see the place of having sustain, but finding that the mechanics of sustain (that you are incurring damage first before you try to recover from it) as being slightly problematic as you deal higher damage, and for that higher damage to get reflected back on us (and with low mitigation, it takes much more sustain to recover).

So recently, I'm arriving at the conclusion that a ratio closer to 1:5 is much more comfortable, since my DPS can often be buffed to 220K through an array of skills and buffs (not including MoC/Overawe). I'm not quite there yet but I'm finding the closer I get, the more comfortable the fights seem to be (and I don't necessarily need more than one LS weapon).

Just wondering if others out there gear with a specific DPS:EHP ratio in mind. I'm personally leaning towards wanting to keep a 1:5 ratio going at all times. Which means that I'd want my EHP to get closer to 600K before I consider attempts at upgrading my DPS to somewhere closer to 120K.

Or taking it one step further, using fights against Azmodan to measure our "true" DPS and using that as a gauge to figure out our optimal EHP. Anyway, wondering what some of the others thought about this kind of upgrading / gearing approach.
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 12/13/2012 9:25 PM PST
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Well, a blue commented on a design change to reflect damage since it is dealing more damage than intended, so hopefully that helps some eHP concerns...

as far as dps:ehp ratio, my goal is 200k dps/1mil eHP...so 1:5 ... going by d3up's calculations.

I am not sure which site is correct, but diabloprogress and d3up have very different eHP calculations for me...

diabloprogress gives me 978k

d3up gives me 571k
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With my real gear (not currently in profile) I'm around 80k dps and 575k ehp. I geared towards survival and sure I can survive but 80k dps is nothing to be happy about. Problem is how to get over 100k dps without crashing my ehp, well for under a billion gold that is...
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diabloprogress gives me 978k

d3up gives me 571k


diabloprogress does not take into consideration of OWE, D3up does.

Anyway i wanna try to hit 180k dps unbuffed with 750k ehp, currently at 134k with 540k ehp. i have no idea how in the world can i raise 210k EHP... Raising the dps part is relatively easy compared to raising the Ehp
Edited by Easter#1808 on 12/12/2012 9:45 AM PST
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Armor sir, looks like armor would give you the best boost in ehp.
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In my opinion, changing my gearing approach for one affix that I might run into isn't worth it.

I can run through MP8 with just a single LS weapon and be completely fine until I run into RD, at which point I have to start paying attention to what I'm actually doing (depending on how many non-RD mobs are around).

This can also be fixed by simply equipping my second LS weapon at which point RD packs go back to being a facetank snoozefest.

For me personally, it makes sense to gear for 95% of the content I'm going through rather than the 5%.

Also, RD is going to be "fixed" in the near future.
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diabloprogress gives me 978k

d3up gives me 571k


diabloprogress does not take into consideration of OWE, D3up does.

This is not correct, especially considering that the person you are responding to doesn't use OwE ...

The difference you are seeing, I believe, is that DP factors dodge into EH while D3up does not.
Edited by Piffle#1874 on 12/12/2012 11:39 AM PST
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In my opinion, changing my gearing approach for one affix that I might run into isn't worth it.

I can run through MP8 with just a single LS weapon and be completely fine until I run into RD, at which point I have to start paying attention to what I'm actually doing (depending on how many non-RD mobs are around).

This can also be fixed by simply equipping my second LS weapon at which point RD packs go back to being a facetank snoozefest.

For me personally, it makes sense to gear for 95% of the content I'm going through rather than the 5%.

Also, RD is going to be "fixed" in the near future.


This, I have no problem with any affix on MP8+ Ubers/Key runs etc until I run into RD...it's so overpowered it's beyond annoying, I was forced to drop 20K DPS (when DW) I went from 180 to 160 on DPS, upped my armor/AR by a bit and added 1300LoH to deal with 1 daym type of affix on an elite pack...blizzard's idea of fun I guess:)
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Eh...RD is really too nebulous a beast to try and sum up with a DPS:EHP ratio. Because if your life goes down as you hurt a RD pack, no amount of EHP will be sufficient if the fight goes on long enough. On the other hand, if your life goes up while you hurt a RD pack, any amount of EHP is sufficient so long as you have enough to survive occasional damage spikes from the rest of combat.

When dealing with RD, if you were intent on boiling it down to one ratio, I would use effective DPS to effective life per second. That's still probably over simplifying it, though.
Edited by Demiwraith#1534 on 12/12/2012 10:19 AM PST
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@Nameless: I haven't explicitly thought about a ratio, but I judge the worth of upgrades in terms of how much DPS I have to trade for EHP, in terms of percentages. When you mention DPS, do you mean paper DPS or real DPS? I'm guessing you mean paper, but I think you ought to be using real, as you suggested. I can easily drop my paper DPS, take up a shield, put on Overawe, and end up with a bigger real DPS.

Regarding sustain, it's tough to factor. One problem with dinging your EL is that you usually end up dinging your effective sustain, too. There's a compound effect that comes from dropping STR for +Damage on your ring, for example.

@Piffle: I believe you're correct about the difference between the sites.
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You all are not making sense. How would it be that the site that says you have lower EHP, is the one that IS factoring in dodge? Illogical

Out of D3awr, d3up and diabloprogress, I use progress, seems most balanced(as I have like 1.6mil w/ dodge on d3awr) I'm just over 1 mil EHP there, and that seems about right(600 AR, 5800 Armor, 56k HP, 12% Melee reduce, 7% elite reduce, hella dodge)

200k DPs/ 1m EHP(Progress) seems to be the "godly" goal
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Yeah you can see the breakdown in D3up showing eHP for Dodge and w/0 Dodge. The eHP with Dodge is more inline with DiabloProgress.

DiabloProgress
1.02M eHP

D3up
1.1M eHP w/ Dodge
571K eHPH w/o Dodge

Unfortunately, I never took into consideration the eHP ratio I just knew I wanted to reach 700+ AR and 7000 Armor pre STI Nerf. Now I am shooting for 600+ AR and 6000 Armor.

Piffle pointed out in another thread that if you keep the 1:10 rato AR:Armor seems like the best place to increase eHP affectively while keeping that ratio would be to increase Health by either stacking more Vit or attaining %Life. Mind you, repeating what I just stated, while keeping your DPS us and maintaining 1:10 Ratio.

I think that why S/B seems to be popular with the PVP gear predictions since you can maintain the 1:10 ratio even with STI nerf and reach 100K Life giving you eHP in the millions.
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1 AR/ 10 armor/ 100 HP is the perfect ratio, mathematically speaking

All the 800 AR, 5000 Armor, 36k HP monks are failing

Vit is so important, AR is overvalued
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1 AR/ 10 armor/ 100 HP is the perfect ratio, mathematically speaking

All the 800 AR, 5000 Armor, 36k HP monks are failing

Vit is so important, AR is overvalued


actually 1 AR/ 10 armor is the perfect ratio... HP is just "the more the better."

straying from the 1 AR : 10 armor ratio will result in diminishing returns whereas adding HP is linear.
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Incorrect Tarzan, the effectiveness of each vit point is changed w/ the surrounding factors. It is in no way linear. You people who don't grasp concepts and push false info should just sit back and remain silent IMO. "The more the better" could be said about all stats, yet in no way shows true understanding of how to apply them most efficiently
Edited by Azakiah#1996 on 12/12/2012 11:40 AM PST
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You all are not making sense. How would it be that the site that says you have lower EHP, is the one that IS factoring in dodge? Illogical

Out of D3awr, d3up and diabloprogress, I use progress, seems most balanced(as I have like 1.6mil w/ dodge on d3awr) I'm just over 1 mil EHP there, and that seems about right(600 AR, 5800 Armor, 56k HP, 12% Melee reduce, 7% elite reduce, hella dodge)

200k DPs/ 1m EHP(Progress) seems to be the "godly" goal

You are right, I had a typo. Fixed it above.

Incorrect Tarzan, the effectiveness of each vit point is changed w/ the surrounding factors. It is in no way linear. You people who don't grasp concepts and push false info should just sit back and remain silent IMO. "The more the better" could be said about all stats, yet in no way shows true understanding of how to apply the most efficiently

You have no clue what you're talking about.
Edited by Piffle#1874 on 12/12/2012 11:43 AM PST
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Piffle, I've seen mathematical equations that prove what I've said to be correct. You can go to d3awr and play around w/ AR & Armor numbers to watch how it changes the EHP value of each vit point. Of course you're madbro, you've got no HP
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Azakiah has 56,234 health, 595 resist, 5781 armor, 12% melee reduction, 7% elite reduction, 50.08% dodge (I think). His EH is as follows (with dodge factored in in parentheses):

Base: 657,991.18 (1,318,091.31)
Melee: 747,717.25 (1,497,831.04)
Elite: 707,517.4 (1,417,032.49)

As for you being a clueless twit intent on spreading false information while simultaneously insulting people who actually know what they're talking about:

The amount of eHP gained by 1 hp is the same regardless of whether you're at 50k or 60k or 70k. Assuming 600 resist and 6k armor:

40k health: 482,151 EH
50k health: 602,688 EH
60k health: 723,266 EH
70k health: 843,764 EH
80k health: 964,392 EH

In each case you're gaining about 12 EH per health.

Please feel free to stand up and take your "I'm an idiot" award now.
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It's a rubix cube, each variable has an affect on the results of one another. This can been seen when you start to stack CC and CD. DPS difference for each peace gets greater the more CC and CD you have equiped. Basically if you have a piece of armor that has 100 Dex the DPS difference is different depending on CC and CD equipped. Sounds like I said the same thing twice haha.

Same can bee seen for Vit but what Piffle observed earlier and what I had mentioned is that once you reach your desired ratio which is 1:10 once you start to stack vit to increase your eHP as long as your AR:Armor Ratio is 1:10 you will get the most out of your Vit eHP. If this is refuted then so be it at least this thread will help more than harm people interested in the subject.
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