Diablo® III

I don't get what's so wrong...

01/02/2013 05:28 AMPosted by Sjippie
Can't skip story dialog?? What? It's called the escape button/the litte "X" in the corner of the dialog box. Or are you just that lazy?

Dude, there comes a time you need to buy a new keyboard because THAT one key is mailfunctioning.

And why is it mailfunctioning? Because the atoms of the structure below that key aren't bonding anymore!

It's a new law of particle physics.
Scientists don't know about it yet.
They will probably call it "Atom fatique" but the general public will know it as "the Diablo 3 syndrome".

Really.


This is why Blizzard, or even I, take your opinion seriously. You probably bought a crappy keyboard, been using mine for over 6 years and it's in perfect shape. Sure the key didn't get damaged from raging on the forums?
Reply Quote
Posts: 424
Most of the complaints come from people with many many kills and hours into the game, sorry but people won't take you seriously with low kills and you singing praises, you sound like someone who doesn't play enough to warrant a valid opinion, kind of like the people who haven't beaten inferno yet say talk about how great the game is.

The problem with the game it forces you to play a certain way, there isn't much diversity with class builds, it's classes were designed fitting more of an mmo than an action game and the fact you cannot skip story dialog is just awful. I love the combat but hard to play when I know I'm going to have to listen to quest crap and do the quests over and over when I just want to endlessly grind.

It's like watching the cool battle scenes in braveheart then it goes to MarthA Stewart talking about how to make home made bird houses using old wood, feces and dental floss, back to action.. then more Martha Stewart..


There is actually plenty of diversity with builds, which is why ALL the skills of the character class are available to you as opposed to a limited amount of skill points that can be distributed, limiting you to only one play style, like the previous title.

WoW is also constant grinding. Is WoW a terrible game? It's an all-time best-seller, if not the most successful MMORPG. I know, you're going to say I'm comparing a ARPG to an MMO...different class...yes, brilliant observation, but they share some the same elements. Should everyone start boycotting WoW because you have to work to get something? No.

Can't skip story dialog?? What? It's called the escape button/the litte "X" in the corner of the dialog box. Or are you just that lazy?


Okay, since you want to be a defensive little nimrod about all this, I'll further explain the problem. Half the skills in this game are lack luster or simply aren't viable for end game use. There is very little diversity to builds, you may find people here and there who use a few different skills and passives but the fact is most run the same builds, WW, CM wizards etc, pet WD yadda yadda. There is no Melee wizard etc, you're forced to play each class as it stands.

WoW is a good game, I came from the 4th best raiding guild on my server as an Ele shaman.. I was the 5th best Shaman on my server and it was fun, I don't play anymore.. why? Because they didn't buff shaman dps while giving everyone else our skills and abilities. That's for another dicussion, yes woW had grinding but raiding and the end game or pvp made it awesome.. but since panda land they made it so simple that most people who raided or loved making builds quit. That's what happens when you make you make a game checkers and not chess.

And by skipping dialog I mean all areas open, by this I mean I can go to act 1, no stupid quest crap.. all areas open to explore kill and after I'm done go to the caravan driver and move on. It's not lazy.. it's the fact I've done the quest 5000 times and do not, NOT want to go to some areas to look for some stupid orb or key, I just want to kill then move on. Not have times where Leah follows me with her stupid bow and old lady voice talking about her stupid tavern. I just want to have an endless way of playing. Sorry this whole concept goes over your head.
Reply Quote
01/02/2013 05:33 AMPosted by Gunny
Your "depth" is coming later with the implication of PvP. This will become and incentive, and in my opinion, should already be an incentive, for grinding gear. There are also expected expansions coming later to this game. With patches, they may introduce more content as well. The game hasn't even been out for a year yet, I wouldn't get my feathers all rumpled up yet.


PvP as an after thought isn't much incentive for a game, especially with the history Blizzard has for balance. It's like slapping a mini-game on after the fact. Not to mention the fact that unless they go all out on it, it will simply be a feature which caters to those willing to spend $$.

I also wouldn't hold my breath waiting on huge content updates for a game that isn't pulling in subscriptions. That RMAH will have to become pretty active for this game to get that level of attention.

Want to see a comparison? Look as the number of blue posts in D3 forums since the holidays started versus the number in the WoW forums. This game was a one time cash cow and will be treated as such.


So you are going to base your assumption on the amount of blue posts, an irrelevant variable? Again, I think the reason you may see that is because the community on this board is beyond ridiculous. When I see a blue post on something, it's generally something that has great value or relation to the development of the game. When people are on here screaming about how they aren't getting the best drops with only 2 hours of gameplay, over and over and over and over and over, they probably aren't going to feel compelled to respond to it repeating the same answer over and over and over and over and over again.

I get some of your frustrations, but they come from not entirely accepting the way the game is designed. This is how Diablo has been and has always been, I promise you it is no different. Except the storyline sucks, I can agree with that.
Reply Quote
01/02/2013 05:36 AMPosted by Arsonyst
This is why Blizzard, or even I, take your opinion seriously. You probably bought a crappy keyboard, been using mine for over 6 years and it's in perfect shape. Sure the key didn't get damaged from raging on the forums?

Hey, I was talking hypothetically! ;)

Kidding aside, yes it's just one keypress away, but those constant interruptions will start to work on your nerves after that many runs.

I know Cydaea is voiced by Claudia Black, and for some reason, I love that girl and her voice, but having to listing to all that speech over and over.. brrrr..... even that can become too much.
And that's even 'background' chatter.
Now take Diablo him/herself... Woman! Stop talking!
Reply Quote


There is actually plenty of diversity with builds, which is why ALL the skills of the character class are available to you as opposed to a limited amount of skill points that can be distributed, limiting you to only one play style, like the previous title.

WoW is also constant grinding. Is WoW a terrible game? It's an all-time best-seller, if not the most successful MMORPG. I know, you're going to say I'm comparing a ARPG to an MMO...different class...yes, brilliant observation, but they share some the same elements. Should everyone start boycotting WoW because you have to work to get something? No.

Can't skip story dialog?? What? It's called the escape button/the litte "X" in the corner of the dialog box. Or are you just that lazy?


Okay, since you want to be a defensive little nimrod about all this, I'll further explain the problem. Half the skills in this game are lack luster or simply aren't viable for end game use. There is very little diversity to builds, you may find people here and there who use a few different skills and passives but the fact is most run the same builds, WW, CM wizards etc, pet WD yadda yadda. There is no Melee wizard etc, you're forced to play each class as it stands.

WoW is a good game, I came from the 4th best raiding guild on my server as an Ele shaman.. I was the 5th best Shaman on my server and it was fun, I don't play anymore.. why? Because they didn't buff shaman dps while giving everyone else our skills and abilities. That's for another dicussion, yes woW had grinding but raiding and the end game or pvp made it awesome.. but since panda land they made it so simple that most people who raided or loved making builds quit. That's what happens when you make you make a game checkers and not chess.

And by skipping dialog I mean all areas open, by this I mean I can go to act 1, no stupid quest crap.. all areas open to explore kill and after I'm done go to the caravan driver and move on. It's not lazy.. it's the fact I've done the quest 5000 times and do not, NOT want to go to some areas to look for some stupid orb or key, I just want to kill then move on. Not have times where Leah follows me with her stupid bow and old lady voice talking about her stupid tavern. I just want to have an endless way of playing. Sorry this whole concept goes over your head.


You can do that, it's called clicking on the final quest of the act where all waypoints are open to wherever you so desire to go...I take it your frustrations are maybe with the interface rather than the actual game...that or you are incapable/unwilling to learn how to get around it. With your attitude, I can sort of understand you are the type of person who gets comfortable and set in his ways and feels disrupted when change occurs.
Reply Quote
01/02/2013 05:45 AMPosted by Sjippie
This is why Blizzard, or even I, take your opinion seriously. You probably bought a crappy keyboard, been using mine for over 6 years and it's in perfect shape. Sure the key didn't get damaged from raging on the forums?

Hey, I was talking hypothetically! ;)

Kidding aside, yes it's just one keypress away, but those constant interruptions will start to work on your nerves after that many runs.

I know Cydaea is voiced by Claudia Black, and for some reason, I love that girl and her voice, but having to listing to all that speech over and over.. brrrr..... even that can become too much.
And that's even 'background' chatter.
Now take Diablo him/herself... Woman! Stop talking!


On a sidenote, I'd like to say Diablo is a HE. He just has an ability to possess female bodies/incarnations. I know you're just messin, but on a serious note, I've heard people complain about that on here too.
Reply Quote
Posts: 424
Yes, I can and do that but the fact remains.. I want an endless way to keep going, if we're not going to get our endless dungeon than I want an option to turn off all main story quests except events and move forward through the game. Think of it like this, if I get on WoW..I do not have to quest I can stay in an area and kill until I feel like leaving.. I don't need to log out, deal with quests to go from Westfall to Goldshire etc, yadda yadda. I can just move seamlessly.

As for build diversity, I've spent millions on gear trying to make a melee wizard or WD or different setups, but it will always be that certain skills are just so much better than others. The fact that you're stuck is annoying. Again from WoW, I could go melee, healer or ranged dps on my shaman..I don't fully expect that here but shouldn't I get some option for a viable build to do such on a WD or Wizard, DH?

These are my issues, I don't care about drops much, I've never found anything good..it' the fact I cannot stand to hear certain NPC chatter or do quests which bugs the ever living crap out of me. The fact we have gear with + ele damage but only works on melee attacks is annoying, the fact you spend most of your time avoiding random damage is annoying. Those are my issues, they fix this I'd play all day.
Reply Quote
Yes, I can and do that but the fact remains.. I want an endless way to keep going, if we're not going to get our endless dungeon than I want an option to turn off all main story quests except events and move forward through the game. Think of it like this, if I get on WoW..I do not have to quest I can stay in an area and kill until I feel like leaving.. I don't need to log out, deal with quests to go from Westfall to Goldshire etc, yadda yadda. I can just move seamlessly.

As for build diversity, I've spent millions on gear trying to make a melee wizard or WD or different setups, but it will always be that certain skills are just so much better than others. The fact that you're stuck is annoying. Again from WoW, I could go melee, healer or ranged dps on my shaman..I don't fully expect that here but shouldn't I get some option for a viable build to do such on a WD or Wizard, DH?

These are my issues, I don't care about drops much, I've never found anything good..it' the fact I cannot stand to hear certain NPC chatter or do quests which bugs the ever living crap out of me. The fact we have gear with + ele damage but only works on melee attacks is annoying, the fact you spend most of your time avoiding random damage is annoying. Those are my issues, they fix this I'd play all day.


Again, D2 was no different in this respect. You had to complete the quest to move on to the next Act/Area, and if you tried to move into the areas within the act that you weren't on the quest for, you ended up getting killed because your character wasn't developed yet to handle that difficulty of monsters. So once more, this is not a new concept, nor is this game an MMORPG like WoW. This is just how Diablo has always been.

What I don't understand is why you ex-WoW players expect every game these days to operate like WoW.
Reply Quote
So you are going to base your assumption on the amount of blue posts, an irrelevant variable? Again, I think the reason you may see that is because the community on this board is beyond ridiculous. When I see a blue post on something, it's generally something that has great value or relation to the development of the game. When people are on here screaming about how they aren't getting the best drops with only 2 hours of gameplay, over and over and over and over and over, they probably aren't going to feel compelled to respond to it repeating the same answer over and over and over and over and over again.

I get some of your frustrations, but they come from not entirely accepting the way the game is designed. This is how Diablo has been and has always been, I promise you it is no different. Except the storyline sucks, I can agree with that.


I base my assumption on the amount of attention being paid to the game by Blizzard employees. Yes.

WoW has always been fairly bad IMO with communication between the Devs and players via the CMs in the forums, but they are head and shoulders above what you see here. Hell, they don't even bother to make light hearted, joking posts in this forum. It's like they sold the game and cut the support staff to a skeleton crew.

To me that's just one indicator, and I freely admit that I may be biased due to my dissatisfaction with this game after all the hype leading up to it's release.

I played the original Diablo and thoroughly enjoyed it. I played through it multiple times and found it dark, creepy, and the story was interesting even though the game play itself was clearly intended to be finite.

Never got into D2 but based on my perception as an outsider and the comparisons that were drawn to it prior to D3 release I assumed this game would have some kind of replay value that would appeal to the masses, not just the obsessive grinders. I was wrong.

Some of you like that kind of thing, and I get that, but that doesn't make the game less disappointing for those who were expecting more. Maybe some of us were expecting the same content value you get in a sub based game since those have been the rage for years. I certainly wasn't expecting the height of D3 game play to be content on a loop and searching the AH over and over. Then again, I didn't come into salivating over the RMAH and prepped to multi-box so I could make a buck either...lol


That's not what I was asking you. Big difference between "blues paying attention to the game" and "blues making posts responding to my rants on a forum."

Though I can come to a consensus with you on some things you said about WoW, I also have to admit, you sound like one of those people who are damn near impossible to please.

As far as the RMAH...I took a few shots at it and couldn't make a single penny, and I had good gear to offer...I'm not sure that anyone is really making a fortune on it big enough to be worth the time. You'd make more money flipping burgers per hour spent working.
Reply Quote
let me explain to you what you're missing OP.

first, there is a difference between what D3 actually is, and what people expected it to be.

people expected D3 to be this insanely state of the art amazing arpg that they would get hooked on and play for years to come.

there are a number of reasons why D3 does not have long-term playability, something you will understand the more you play (I used to think the same way you're thinking now with 2000 elite kills...."i'm gonna kill some elites, find some loot, sell it in the ah, make some gold, and make progress")

1) Since 1.05, prices in the ah dropped like an addict's grade point average. This means the average "100 str 50 vita 50 all resist 3 socket" chest piece that used to get you quite a bit of gold now costs under 2m gold. This makes accumulating gold that much harder.

2) D3's ah is controlled by buyers, not sellers, because there are more items being found every single day compared to the player base willing to buy or needing them. Simple demand/supply equilibrium implies a decline in prices every day. This means that every time you make a 10-20m gold upgrade, a month later it is going to be worth much less than what you paid. What this means is that to retain the value of your assets you must buy gear that doesn't lose value. These tend to be the best items in the game that are the hardest to roll and hence are lowest in supply. For example: mempos with high crit and primary stat, or immortal king's chest pieces with double vitality rolls.
Edited by Stentorian#1629 on 1/2/2013 6:31 AM PST
Reply Quote
Continued...

1 + 2 combined means that once you already reach a certain point in the game where you have good offensive and defensive stats, your upgrades cost exponentially more. But with declining prices in the ah, it becomes more and more difficult for your to make gold. Remember, this is a gold based game. Your chances of finding an elite late game gear piece are almost zero. In my 700 hours I've found no mempos or IK chests, let alone bad ones with no crit or low vita/str.

There comes a point in time where you realize you'd literally have to give up everything else in life to grind countless hours to even have a slight realistic chance of finding that gg item, and that's where people complain about D3's end game.

It's terribly difficult to progress after a certain period, but even if you make that commitment, what the heck are the items for?

No PVP. No ladder.

To make things worse, your hard earned gear means nothing compared to those who miss the whole point of the game and and are dumb enough to invest 1000s of real $s.

D3 is a great game, but has horrible itemization and progression. Enjoy it now because you haven't reached that stage I talk about earlier.
Edited by Stentorian#1629 on 1/2/2013 6:32 AM PST
Reply Quote
Comparing it to wow is downright ridiculous. Wow has more quests or other content per square-inch, than all acts of diablo 3 combined... It also has competitive things like pvp. Large groups of people that have to coordinate, to take down a boss. Which will give you rewards and is challenging. That said, you simply can't compare it in that way, because wow is subsription based...

The comparison with diablo 2 is also lacking. The lootsystem is just so far apart from d3. I know four different runs in diablo 2 and I haven't even played it very much. There are plenty more if you want to hunt a specific item. In diablo 3 there pretty much is only one.

Diablo 3 is far from a bad game by now, but leaves much to be desired. There are things that can be improved and only if people open their mouth, can blizzard make good decisions on what is needed, to make the players have more fun playing.

If you use the ah, by now you can take any char and 100k gold and finish inferno easily. It won't be fast and you will die a couple times, but it's doable. Take 10 mio and you can clear mp5, not fast or particularly safe but it's doable. with 1 bio you can clear mp 10.
But even now with mp 0 being really easy, you might not be able to clear inferno selffound after several hundred hours of playtime. To get from mp 0 to mp 5 selffound, i would guess, takes around 1000 hrs of playtime selffound. I haven't found a single item that was better then what I allready got through the ah in 400 hrs playing my monk. So I think 1000 hours is a pretty low figure. To get from mp 5 to mp 10 selffound? Not in a lifetime.

So you can choose. Use the ah and have an easy game or don't use it and have an impossible game. It's just bad design.

"...so to the complainers, they are listening to you, but they will be less likely to take your complaints seriously when you come across as a whiny b**** rather than a sensible, educated, mature individual.

If you are incapable of getting over a flaw or challenge in a game by adjusting your character/gameplay, you really have no business playing a game in the first place. In my honest opinion, there is nothing wrong with this game. It is perfectly fair and provides a reasonable challenge. If it wasn't hard, it wouldn't be called Inferno. You can sit here and say that the game is broken, but what I really think is that YOU are broken. Use your minds and stop trying to get Blizzard to make a game that plays itself for you, rather than you playing it. Try it sometime, it's addictive."

Yeah you sound pretty sensible, educated and mature... But you have a point there. Some people just don't know how to formulate ideas and possible changes with a good manner. The problem is not that it is too hard. It is either impossible or far too easy. Well you could say, then up the mp-lvl. The problem is, that the rewards don't scale up accordingly. To put it in another way: My reward for getting better, is to play slower and therefore getting less loot and thus even less rewards for playing. From a loot point of view, mp 0-2 is still the most rewarding. Also bad design in my opinion. When there is a flaw in the game, it is far better to fix it at the core. It will be fixed one time, instead of every player having to find a workaround that works for him.

You say that you have played inferno on other accounts. Did you grind it out with act 3 a hundred times? I have done it a hundred times and then again and again and again. And that doesn't even compare to other people that have easily played double or triple my time. I have nearly killed as many elites as you have killed monsters. So yes I and many others have a better educated opinion of what the endgame is and what could be better. Hell the game would instantly be a lot better, if i could just grind in act 1,2 or 4, but I can't because Act 3 is much better loot-wise.

Diversity in builds? Hmm I can only speak about monks and we have pretty much two builds. One that is cheap and somewhat slow. The other one is very fast and very expensive. PvP will in fact not change that, because to get equip, you have to farm. Even if you use a different skillset in pvp, until you have bis, you will have to stick to these builds. Well I guess at some point it just doesn't matter what skills you use, jst because your equip is good enough.

The game is good. I have 700+ hours on the clock, so I must have found something good in it. But at some point it just gets boring and unrewarding. It could be better and will hopefully get there in time, but for now it has serious flaws that need to be adressed.

Greetings
Reply Quote
Posts: 424
What I don't understand is why you ex-WoW players expect every game these days to operate like WoW.


Sounds like Madmax is looking for a wide open world to farm, not the linear path that D3 provides for everything. Teleporting in D3 only takes you to the next linear segment, it doesn't really feel like you're running around in a large, open environment.

Just as a side note, constantly throwing out "this is how Diablo has always been" doesn't really mean anything to a lot of us. Players expect developers to look at what's popular and what's not and build on those things in sequels and expansions, not stick to a standard format.

Although in a game like this I'm not sure how they'd tunnel you through the story line if it weren't somewhat linear. At end game though with the focus being on repetitive grinding they could certainly loosen it up a bit to make the grinding feel less grindy.


This exactly, D2 had quests but I don't recall as many or them being as annoying and the areas were much much bigger with dense mob packs. I never got tired doing the den of the fallen or the tower of the blood queen etc, not to mention boss dialog was short and wasn't a huge speech. I don't remember andariel popping up every single place I went going "YOU DONT KNOW WHO YOU MESS WITH.. I WILL GET YOU NEXT TIME!!111" That simply never happened.
Edited by Tobasco#1771 on 1/2/2013 7:15 AM PST
Reply Quote
01/02/2013 06:33 AMPosted by Gunny
I wouldn't expect a lot of free content out of them, you'll definitely have to wait on the expansion to see the big changes it would take to bring players back to the game. And honestly, what reason do they have at this point to try and bring people back? They already bought it.


This is actually a very interesting thing you've brought up and I'm glad you did. It brings back memories about back in the day when Diablo 2 first came out, and on these very same forums, people were griping about how D2 was too linear, too rushed/short, and lacked content and diversity...but then LoD came out 2 years later and that is what gave D2 it's legendary status, it certainly hauled back a lot of original naysayers. Because of everything that LoD did to expand the game's potential and features, such as the rune words and gems.

I see the same happening with this episode, they will release an expansion or a mega-patch and it will drastically change people's opinions of the game by adding more things to make it deeper.

Though I still see this game as a drastic improvement to D2, it's certainly easier to maneuver in, more comprehensible, maintained it's third person 2d view but with better graphics, easier to make a good build (no more permanent distribution points), crafting items that are actually decent for leveling, and more variation in the stats on items i.e. no two items are exactly alike...etc.
Reply Quote

Now, I may be going out on a stretch here, but you need to collect all the valuable items (rares) and use the ones that will work for you and sell off the other ones on the AH to make gold. The more gold you make, the more you have for more worthy items. This is how I play the game, all the items I collect I convert to gold, and then use the gold to purchase better gear, unless a good one drops for me, then I'll keep it and use it.


I do the what with the what?

How do I win? I buy gold?
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,183
View profile
01/02/2013 04:26 AMPosted by Arsonyst
Now it's over half a year later and people are STILL on here complaining about the same things. Usually involving the difficulty of inferno. I'll use this as an example.


01/02/2013 04:26 AMPosted by Arsonyst
Inferno is only difficult for you when you don't have the right gear for game play. They introduced an AH and RMAH to help accommodate for these needs.


QED.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]