Diablo® III

I don't get what's so wrong...

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01/02/2013 05:17 AMPosted by Arsonyst
I don't get how the whole "grinding for gear" is a new concept...this has been the case for just about any RPG I have ever played in my life.


And an omelette's just an egg in a pan.
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I do the what with the what?

How do I win? I buy gold?


You earn gold by playing through the game, selling the crap you don't need for gold, and top it off by upping your gold find %. Has nothing to do with buying gold or items with cash.

01/02/2013 07:26 AMPosted by LunathirEth
QED.


You can twist it any way you please by being a clever quoter, but I think you understand.
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01/02/2013 07:14 AMPosted by Madmax


Sounds like Madmax is looking for a wide open world to farm, not the linear path that D3 provides for everything. Teleporting in D3 only takes you to the next linear segment, it doesn't really feel like you're running around in a large, open environment.

Just as a side note, constantly throwing out "this is how Diablo has always been" doesn't really mean anything to a lot of us. Players expect developers to look at what's popular and what's not and build on those things in sequels and expansions, not stick to a standard format.

Although in a game like this I'm not sure how they'd tunnel you through the story line if it weren't somewhat linear. At end game though with the focus being on repetitive grinding they could certainly loosen it up a bit to make the grinding feel less grindy.


This exactly, D2 had quests but I don't recall as many or them being as annoying and the areas were much much bigger with dense mob packs. I never got tired doing the den of the fallen or the tower of the blood queen etc, not to mention boss dialog was short and wasn't a huge speech. I don't remember andariel popping up every single place I went going "YOU DONT KNOW WHO YOU MESS WITH.. I WILL GET YOU NEXT TIME!!111" That simply never happened.


Well, you know, they're trying to make it epic and theatrical. Goes with the business I suppose. I kind of just ignore it along with the rest of the dialogue.
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In reality complaining isn't bad... sure some of the complaints are stupid but imagine if nobody complained and everyone went quietly, blizzard Releases the diablo expansion and it sells only 500k copies, 100-200k being bought by botters and farmers.. then they'd really piss the bed. By letting them know what's bad and what's not they can sort out what made D2 fun and what makes D3 lack, even if this new team has to swallow their pride and learn the hard way.

In that sense they better get on the ball, people thought that American cars would be replaced by small ones from Asia, but when gas prices hit hard people bought them up, which is why Honda, toyota and the rest have such a massive market in America now. The same will go with games, American companies won't listen, piss away their resources and then find themselves on the outside looking in when it comes to PC titles. Another thing is that while Japanese and Korean game companies are there for money, many also play for fun so they won't hesitate to make changes.
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01/02/2013 06:24 AMPosted by Stentorian
people expected D3 to be this insanely state of the art amazing arpg that they would get hooked on and play for years to come.


I think the hype was actually more based on the fact that a new Diablo title hasn't been released in over a decade.

1) Since 1.05, prices in the ah dropped like an addict's grade point average. This means the average "100 str 50 vita 50 all resist 3 socket" chest piece that used to get you quite a bit of gold now costs under 2m gold. This makes accumulating gold that much harder.

2) D3's ah is controlled by buyers, not sellers, because there are more items being found every single day compared to the player base willing to buy or needing them. Simple demand/supply equilibrium implies a decline in prices every day. This means that every time you make a 10-20m gold upgrade, a month later it is going to be worth much less than what you paid. What this means is that to retain the value of your assets you must buy gear that doesn't lose value. These tend to be the best items in the game that are the hardest to roll and hence are lowest in supply. For example: mempos with high crit and primary stat, or immortal king's chest pieces with double vitality rolls.


Such is the market in real life right now. That is the nature of economy. It will change eventually. The bear is dominant now and the bull is recessive. You could say this exact same thing about the markets in WoW depending on what realm you played on.
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I've been saying this a lot lately, but a big problem just comes down to personal responsibility in the playerbase. This game isn't that bad, it does have some flaws, but if a person takes their time with it, they can have a lasting experience with it. The only character I've purchased anything for from the AH has been my Wizard. I used it sparingly shortly after launch to help him get to Inferno, and I boycotted it a few months ago. My friends are still using it, so I decided to keep using it for JUST my Softcore Wizard (hardcore Wizard will be going without it entirely) just to keep up with them.

In the end, I've been really enjoying the experience far more. EVERY piece of gear I pick up, especially stuff that most people would consider trash, I examine, think about, and a lot of the time, I save. Without using the AH for every little upgrade, I need to squeeze every bit of added stats and DPS and protection out of what gear I find, and it stops being "well, that won't sell for anything" to "huh, wonder what I can do with that."

Perfect example...before I found the Andariel's Visage my Monk is wearing, I had a helm on him that I'd originally saved for my Wizard. It had only a little bit of Dex and over 100+ Int, but it had a socket and added 12% to Way of the Hundred Fists' damage. I'm really glad I kept that helm around because it gave my Monk some added punch (no pun intended) that he needed to get a bit farther.

Seriously, the AH isn't everything. I like that people can turn an item that isn't useful for them into a monumental pile of gold if they do it right. But spending more time in there than out playing isn't the answer.
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In reality complaining isn't bad... sure some of the complaints are stupid but imagine if nobody complained and everyone went quietly, blizzard Releases the diablo expansion and it sells only 500k copies, 100-200k being bought by botters and farmers.. then they'd really piss the bed. By letting them know what's bad and what's not they can sort out what made D2 fun and what makes D3 lack, even if this new team has to swallow their pride and learn the hard way.

In that sense they better get on the ball, people thought that American cars would be replaced by small ones from Asia, but when gas prices hit hard people bought them up, which is why Honda, toyota and the rest have such a massive market in America now. The same will go with games, American companies won't listen, piss away their resources and then find themselves on the outside looking in when it comes to PC titles. Another thing is that while Japanese and Korean game companies are there for money, many also play for fun so they won't hesitate to make changes.


Oh trust me, I don't think complaining is bad at all. I just think complaining about stupid things is bad, which often it seems people on here are griping and whining about things that I feel most normal people would get over or wouldn't even have a problem with. Yes, this game introduced a few new things, and you could draw a bad side from it, but at the same time, it provides more opportunity to advance in the game quicker. People are gonna find ways to get around things and buy the items, so Blizz just decided let's make some money if we can on what is rightfully our intellectual property since we can't eliminate the problem.

And about those cars...haha, I think Americans are making a comeback with the Chevy Sonic/Cruze and Ford Focus/Fiesta...in fact, they are outperforming a lot of the big brand Hondas and Toyotas in terms of reliability and mpg...I believe some American companies are still with us and listening to us, Blizzard certainly is to the kvetchers on here...
Edited by Arsonyst#1242 on 1/2/2013 8:10 AM PST
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Honestly, I'd say gear is TOO easy to acquire now.

Anyone who says you can't gear now, hasn't been playing. Or doesn't understand how finding gear in Diablo works. Pro-tip: It's just like D2. MF.

01/02/2013 04:57 AMPosted by Madmax
The problem with the game it forces you to play a certain way, there isn't much diversity with class builds, it's classes were designed fitting more of an mmo than an action game and the fact you cannot skip story dialog is just awful. I love the combat but hard to play when I know I'm going to have to listen to quest crap and do the quests over and over when I just want to endlessly grind.


At MP0/1, you can pretty much go with whatever build. You aren't required to play at MP5. I've found a lot of success with a non CM/Archon build. You just have to experiment until you figure out something that works, which sadly, a lot of people have no time for.

The game isn't forcing you to do anything. I don't know why people say that.

You can skip dialogues by jamming the space bar. It's not ideal, but it works well enough. Or just go to a later quest, (Cursed Hold-Act 1 for example) and then jump around the act without dealing with any story.

Diablo 2 never had a super hard difficulty level. It had Hell, which could be beaten with just about any gear, but people farmed Baal anyway, because they like slot machines, but since they had already found relative success, there was no frustration at never getting your drops, because the game didn't put a giant spotlight on your lack of power. In D3, that all changed, and people became more aware of how hard it actually is to get gear in these games since they actually needed it due to a better designed level of progression.

Attaining power of a long period of time was supposed to be the end game, but a lot of people wanted to be bad !@# RIGHT NOW, since D2 worked that way. Blizzard thought the people who play these games like challenge, which is silly, because the ones who are hooked are only in it of the item hunt.
Edited by Ignatius#1870 on 1/2/2013 8:07 AM PST
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^P. much.

I feel like this shift, really undermined their entire plan for the game. Progression was out the window, working on a single character was out, since you're now going to gear your one character in a matter of weeks if you play it right. With paragon boosting MF/GF, buffed drop rates, and MP giving even MORE MF, the longevity of this game by way of investing time into your character, was halved.

Not that asking the player to grind for so long was ideal in the first place.

All that being said, I do play this game a lot still. The slot machine is hard to tear yourself away from. Plus taking longs breaks helps. :P
Edited by Ignatius#1870 on 1/2/2013 8:21 AM PST
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OP : 'I don't get what is so wrong...'

Well, no one has shown you enough empirical evidence to even begin to sway you on D3 being mediocre at best, so I'll just be really terse and perhaps give you something to dwell on.

Diablo 3 is thoroughly lacking game depth.

I read it summed in this thread already as : designing a game of checkers for some one expecting to play chess. It is just not going to be well received.

For me, I played as long as I could thinking the road was going to get smoother and more fun, but I can't anymore. I can't wait for a $60 expansion (if they can even deliver on that) to make Diablo 3 the game it should have started as.
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01/02/2013 05:29 AMPosted by Arsonyst
Your "depth" is coming later with the implication of PvP. This will become an incentive, and in my opinion, should already be an incentive, for grinding gear. There are also expected expansions coming later to this game. With patches, they may introduce more content as well. The game hasn't even been out for a year yet, I wouldn't get my feathers all rumpled up in a bunch.


Promised at release, then delayed and delayed and delayed only to find out that they're scraping the last year of work on it and just giving us the 1v1 duel? ya lots of depth there.
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Well, no one has shown you enough empirical evidence to even begin to sway you on D3 being mediocre at best, so I'll just be really terse and perhaps give you something to dwell on.

Diablo 3 is thoroughly lacking game depth.


Diablo 3 also hasn't been out for too long, about half a year to be exact. You really don't expect games to be perfect upon release when pre-release they repeatedly talked about their development frame and how they were dividing the content, ehrm, "depth", into the expansion packs and mega-patches? Or the upcoming PvP content? Oh well I beta tested this game, so I was aware of the news on the development process...

01/02/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Radton
I read it summed in this thread already as : designing a game of checkers for some one expecting to play chess. It is just not going to be well received.


If you want to play chess, pick up StarCraft 2. RPGs are not a strategy genre.
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01/02/2013 08:34 AMPosted by Arsonyst
If you want to play chess, pick up StarCraft 2. RPGs are not a strategy genre.


Yeah. I never got this. Diablo 2 was hardly a complex game either. And certainly nowhere near Chess complex.
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Well, no one has shown you enough empirical evidence to even begin to sway you on D3 being mediocre at best, so I'll just be really terse and perhaps give you something to dwell on.

Diablo 3 is thoroughly lacking game depth.


Diablo 3 also hasn't been out for too long, about half a year to be exact. You really don't expect games to be perfect upon release when pre-release they repeatedly talked about their development frame and how they were dividing the content, ehrm, "depth", into the expansion packs and mega-patches? Or the upcoming PvP content? Oh well I beta tested this game, so I was aware of the news on the development process...

01/02/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Radton
I read it summed in this thread already as : designing a game of checkers for some one expecting to play chess. It is just not going to be well received.


If you want to play chess, pick up StarCraft 2. RPGs are not a strategy genre.


Except that they have the formula of whats working in diablo in the form of diablo 2 LOD, not to mention 10 years behind it.

New cars has the upgrades if not the features old cars have.
Sequels are created to improve the previous ones.

Common knowledge
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Except that they have the formula of whats working in diablo in the form of diablo 2 LOD, not to mention 10 years behind it.

New cars has the upgrades if not the features old cars have.
Sequels are created to improve the previous ones.

Common knowledge


This ^^

Diablo 3 is not a standalone title from some random and broke company. They can leverage 100's of millions of dollars to design innovative game play but they made it even simpler than the 10 year old version it should have borrowed more than name from.

OP you don't get what is so wrong because you won't let yourself see it.
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