Diablo® III

I don't get what's so wrong...

01/03/2013 08:20 AMPosted by Smoovemove
Really, put some time in and it gets easier and easier. I'm far from godly but I have 2 chars that can solo mp 6. It's a fun game and yes, it's the same thing over and over again just like the 2 previous Diablo titles.


Ok so your point is that it must be that way?

lol 10 years later, we must do the same repetitive things again and again?

I think we could upgrade this mentality.


Checkers is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?
Texas Hold'em is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?
StarCraft is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?
Halo 4 is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?
Black Ops Zombies is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?
WoW is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?

Every game has a repetitive element to it. This is a simple RPG, it's not complex, it never was, it's just a HACK AND SLASH game. If you came into it expecting WoW depth and longevity, you are a fool and got duped really bad. It's your own fault you bought a game you didn't like.
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Weeks on end to buy an upgrade? Try about an hour and a half. doing act 3 on inferno can normally net you 80k+ in that time
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You are the type of retard who should be put down or at the very least sterilized so you do not contaminate the rest of the world!

This game could of been a masterpiece but, because of greed obviously, its a dumbed down version so any moron can play and then get milked since the only path to success is to use the RMAH.
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01/03/2013 06:11 AMPosted by captain
However, my anecdotal examples clearly were enough for you to rationally conclude that age is not a good indicator of maturity


Your example is only valid for a minority of people, if you're saying that the majority of middle aged men have the mentality of teenagers or less, then I would be more likely to consider you're argument. You cannot say that because there is one counter example, renders a whole idea invalid because in everything there are bound to be anomalies.

On D3 the Kill count is a good way to see predict how much someone has played over hours because sitting in a game afk still counts towards that.

Yes maturity versus age can be misleading however this system is being used all over the world if you think about it:

Legal driving age
Legal drinking age
Legal age to buy tobacco
Age restrictions to go into clubs/bars/pubs

The age limit is there so that people are "mature" enough to drink responsibly and drive responsibly. Whether people do it or not is their choice, however age is used to measure maturity.

As do playtime to elite kills. Whether we like it or not, it still is a form of measurement showing how much someone has played (with the exception of bots).

are you sure you can argue against the legal drinking age shenanigans an get these removed because a FEW examples of children being more responsible because it renders it invalid? ... I don't think so.

For the majority of people by growing up (getting older), is to get more mature and by getting more mature they are learning from their mistakes i.e. through experiences. This is the norm. In the beginning clubbing and drinking were really fun, now it's dull (arguable but it is my opinion)

Now take this to D3 elite kills and compare it to drinking per say:

In the beginning, it's fun, it's really fun and I was happy playing D3 every day. By playing D3 my elite kill counts were increased, therefore showing a positive correlation between playtime and elite kill counts.

However once I played the boring thing over and over again with no interesting rewards, it gets boring. The feeling of killing an elite for the 1,000th time and getting a legendary drop is different to killing an elite for the 20,000th time and getting a legendary drop.

As to drinking at the age of 15 getting smashed partying and getting hungover the next day, to doing that at 35 is a totally different experience and feeling.

Edit: @Arsonyst I've already read through the thread before posting most of the things you bash in about D2, D3 has EXACTLY the same issues with: Duping, Botting, Economy, so why is D3 so much better than D2 and if it is why hasn't it won over their old fans is my question and you haven't answered it.

Instead you're avoiding it in ignorance
Edited by Kittehx#2602 on 1/3/2013 10:45 AM PST
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Checkers is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?
Texas Hold'em is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?
StarCraft is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?
Halo 4 is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?
Black Ops Zombies is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?
WoW is the same thing over and over again. Should we change it?

Every game has a repetitive element to it. This is a simple RPG, it's not complex, it never was, it's just a HACK AND SLASH game. If you came into it expecting WoW depth and longevity, you are a fool and got duped really bad. It's your own fault you bought a game you didn't like.


staright to the point
we don't need PvP or expansion or patches
why seek improvement when the games already perfect?
people who complain just do not know the meaning of gaming
use imagination and set goals for yourself to make this game fun again man
It's your fault to expect Diablo III to be great

I don't get you either

This game was too broken bro
without the patches, barb and wiz would be godly
There was a bug that can make u invincible as a archon
Maybe this game still feels hard for you, that's y u still love it
I used to like this game before I reach 60
right now everyone's dominating the MP
This game is not hard anymore, so the way u try to make this game look strategic and challenging just not valid

cut the no one's perfect crap plz, if they went through beta test 6 more months
better planning, people won't be this frustrated
they tried new things, end up ruined this game
for me if they have to hold the D3 project for another year I am cool with it
just don't release a half !@# product then expect everyone would love it.

btw PvP still not out
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Edit: @Arsonyst I've already read through the thread before posting most of the things you bash in about D2, D3 has EXACTLY the same issues with: Duping, Botting, Economy, so why is D3 so much better than D2 and if it is why hasn't it won over their old fans is my question and you haven't answered it.

Instead you're avoiding it in ignorance


I already said it once here:

01/02/2013 07:18 AMPosted by Arsonyst
Though I still see this game as a drastic improvement to D2, it's certainly easier to maneuver in, more comprehensible, maintained it's third person 2d view but with better graphics, easier to make a good build (no more permanent distribution points), crafting items that are actually decent for leveling, and more variation in the stats on items i.e. no two items are exactly alike...etc.


To add to the list, a vastly larger stash space (eliminating the need for mules), quicker grouping for questing/boss runs, AH for getting items quickly when I need them or making gold, and more people to play with.
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It's funny that you haven't even beaten Inferno. IMO it's too easy.
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01/03/2013 11:24 AMPosted by Arsonyst
Though I still see this game as a drastic improvement to D2, it's certainly easier to maneuver in, more comprehensible, maintained it's third person 2d view but with better graphics, easier to make a good build (no more permanent distribution points), crafting items that are actually decent for leveling, and more variation in the stats on items i.e. no two items are exactly alike...etc.


Dude, there's duping on D3 already, need I say more?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6omRbneV_8o

easier to make a good build =/= better because you can still make a good build regardless. With builds it shouldn't be good, it should be fun and D2 had elements for a "fun" build.

And honestly who uses the crafting system? It's way too random and expensive you're better off searching on AH for low lvl upgrades.

01/03/2013 11:24 AMPosted by Arsonyst
quicker grouping for questing/boss runs


In D3, there is no incentive to group, public games are a mess:

No game names
No monster power in public games
Public game numbers are declining

And also because of D3's weak social system, there are actually LESS people to play with because there are no incentives to group together.

Furthermore, you still haven't answered my question:

Why hasn't D3 won over the majority of D2 fans if D3 is "Drastically improved"??

Thats my main point I'm trying to make you see, if you can actually answer that question you'd get what's wrong.
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Why hasn't D3 won over the majority of D2 fans if D3 is "Drastically improved"??


First off, this is a farce. You don't have any statistics backing this up which is why I didn't fancy you an answer on this. Majority? What percent? Show me the numbers.

It may have not won a whole shipload of people because of other reasons. Reasons I would say are, that it isn't as "dark" as D2, or that the story line is sort of cheesy and disappointing. But then again, I was around when D2 first came out, and people like you were making these same claims, that D2 isn't winning over people from D1, but then a year later the popularity escalated, and when LoD came out, reached it's peak. Then all of a sudden the naysayers were the biggest fans.

Also many people are expecting this to be old, archaic, and with the same less comprehensible and more difficult to learn system that was before. You know, if you messed up on the stat point by even a small margin, it was permanent, and you had to reroll to fix it. That was a major issue for a lot of people and you saw it with a steep decline when people realized somewhere along the line in distributing points, they screwed up. This game has eliminated wasting time and made game play more efficient.
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01/03/2013 11:53 AMPosted by Arsonyst
First off, this is a farce. You don't have any statistics backing this up which is why I didn't fancy you an answer on this. Majority? What percent? Show me the numbers.


You don't need statistics and numbers when you can see it in the beginning of the forums the majority of D2 players were complaining. This is something for you to see, we're all part of it happening right now its "primary research". Not everything can be backed up by your so called "numbers, statistics" because its happening right now or are you going to be ignorant yet again to ignore it?

There is a ton of things which is wrong with this game and could be fixed, I wasn't around for D1, but I was definitely around for almost all of D2.

D3 should've took the foundations of D2 and built upon it, not strip it.

I know how difficult the stat system was: I rerolled my same hammerdin 5 times. Lvled it to 95 pvp lvl 5 times to perfect it, but I kept playing. D2 was more replayable than D3.

D3 should've taken this issue and corrected it, without stripping foundations i.e. re-distributable stat points, or having an item that we can hunt for to allow us to re-distribute it, so at the end of the day it's us who are customising our characters not blizzard.

And ow if I wanted to argue it like you I would also say:

Provide the evidence of why D3 is drastically improved, show me statistics, or else all your arguments are invalid, which I'm not doing.
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That's nice that you like this game so much. Unfortunately for a lot of fans, we think this game is lacking in many areas and simply not that much fun. Even good ideas from previous Diablo's like rune words and random attribute gems were omitted. The graphics may be better, but it feels like they backtracked in many regards [cough] Battlenet 2.0 [cough].

The bottom line: there was so much opportunity for awesomeness with D3 and most of it was squandered.
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01/03/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Kittehx
D3 should've taken this issue and corrected it, without stripping foundations i.e. re-distributable stat points, or having an item that we can hunt for to allow us to re-distribute it, so at the end of the day it's us who are customising our characters not blizzard.


You are doing just that, except not on the base stats, you're doing it now more with the gear. I mean it's always been about the gear in Diablo, it's just now ALL into the gear. It's a lot simpler to work with, I had a hard time understanding customizing stat points when I first started D2 and it ended up on several failed rerolls.

01/03/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Kittehx
Provide the evidence of why D3 is drastically improved, show me statistics, or else all your arguments are invalid, which I'm not doing.


I'm not making claims about a player-base, I'm mostly referring to the features and game play mostly.

01/03/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Kittehx
You don't need statistics and numbers when you can see it in the beginning of the forums the majority of D2 players were complaining.


The forums are not the majority of the entire community, maybe a small percentage.
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Play hardcore
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01/03/2013 12:23 PMPosted by Arsonyst
You are doing just that, except not on the base stats, you're doing it now more with the gear. I mean it's always been about the gear in Diablo, it's just now ALL into the gear. It's a lot simpler to work with, I had a hard time understanding customizing stat points when I first started D2 and it ended up on several failed rerolls.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWArvEV4tjI

Tell me you can kill ubers naked in D3 using co-ordination alone. Customisation of stats allowed that by having blizzard put ALL your stats for you, you're never going to have a perfect char.

My barb's base stats naked (lvl 32 paragon):

Str: 283
Dex: 99
Int: 99
Vit: 191

No.1, Why would I want so many points in dex/vit per lvl, I'd rather have them in vit/str my character is already no perfect.

Edit: In D3, the gear = our strength not the stats, in D2, raising stats is also raising our characters.

01/03/2013 12:23 PMPosted by Arsonyst
I'm not making claims about a player-base, I'm mostly referring to the features and game play mostly.


even so I can have a douchebag argument saying find me evidence that D3 is drastically improved.

01/03/2013 12:23 PMPosted by Arsonyst
The forums are not the majority of the entire community, maybe a small percentage.


Although it is a small percentage and most likely minority, it still shows a representation of what is happening.
Edited by Kittehx#2602 on 1/3/2013 1:09 PM PST
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Op some people like low end games. example d3.

The rest of us find better ways to use the game time we have.They had a chance to make a diablo worthy game and threw it away.This is a 1 time buy game so don't expect much from it.
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01/03/2013 06:11 AMPosted by captain
Kill count is a number on an account, and doesn't inform you substantially as to the lifetime gaming experience (diablo 3 or otherwise) of the poster. It's just a strangely formed ad hominem attack.


You've stated this much more maturely than anyone else by a fair margin...

The kill count IS arbitrary in the sense you're saying it is. I completely understand what you're saying, and I agree with the principle.

This entire thread is (in theory) about the overwhelming negative opinion of this game. I don't actually share the negativity, I still enjoy the **** out of it, and I agree that it shares a lot in common with other installments (I actually like the soundtrack being recycled from D1 in part, for example) and that a lot of negativity falls a little short in that regard... complaining about a diablo game because it's like diablo... yeah...

What I don't understand is anyone thinking/assuming/declaring that an elite kill count doesn't correlate with experience on the topic... Who exactly do you expect to have the most insightful opinion of this game? I would think the most informed opinions would come from those who've spent the most amount of time in the game, and that is irrefutably related DIRECTLY to the elite count.

All the anecdotal references to actual maturity seem a little out of context to me personally.
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Well, now I'm annoyed... I had a huge post on this topic... but Blizzard's incredibly poorly designed forums ate it since my login timed out mid-post. Sigh. Well, I guess I'll just have to try to repost it lol... sigh. HAte these forums sometimes. Oh well...

So a few pages ago someone linked to an article I wrote, so I thought I'd share a bit of what the article covers since most people don't bother clicking on links. I've actually written about D3 3 times since it came out:
http://www.shadowedblade.net/2012/07/itemization-the-bane-of-diablo-3/ <-- about itemization
http://www.shadowedblade.net/2012/06/diablo-3-the-hard-truth/ <-- initial d3 impressions
http://www.shadowedblade.net/2012/08/diablo-3-1-0-4-impressions/ <-- how the changes in 1.0.4 impacted the game

I'm way too lazy to spend a lot of time formatting for these stupid forums, especially since this is my second time trying to post... so if you want nice formatting and more eloquence, check the articles on the website... here is just the basics ;)
Here are the basic problems I have with D3:

1) Difficulty
Diablo 3 isn't an incredibly hard game, it's not going to compete with Demon Souls or Ninja Gaiden or any of the big names in brutal punishment. But the difficulty of inferno is such that it goes counter to one of Diablo 3's core design philosophies: Viable not optimal. What is the point of having billions of potential builds if only 2-3 per class are useful?

2) The Badass Problem
In most Action RPGs, whether they be god of war, diablo, darksiders, or whatever... one of the things that makes them so much fun is the satisfaction you get from feeling like you're a hero. Action RPGs make you feel like a badass, they make you feel epic and they make you feel like you're constantly becoming MORE of a badass.
Diablo 3 doesn't do a very good job of this partially due to the story not being about you... but mostly because it has this strange dip in the 'badassery'. On normal, as you level, you get that progression of feeling more and more powerful. Then you hit nightmare, and you begin to feel weaker and weaker as you level through nightmare and hell and into inferno. Then somewhere after you get into inferno, you start to feel more powerful again. This really removes a lot of the satisfaction of the game for a large portion of your leveling experience.

3) Itemization
The biggest and most damning problem Diablo 3 faces is just how terrible the itemization is. It is some of the worst I've seen. They've made some improvements, yes, but nowhere near enough for me to really ENJOY my time with Diablo 3.
The key flaws with itemization in this game are:

a) Affixes
Diablo 3's affixes are boring and poorly balanced. They're boring because there weren't very many actually INTERESTING things put onto items, and the few interesting things that were either suffer from strange limitations or really poor proc-rates.
Things like movement speed, lifesteal, and class-specific stats are good examples of limitations. These stats either suffer artifical limitations(MS cap) or natural limitations(lifesteal can only be found on weapons and barb belts). These limitations make the stats boring, since 'max this stat' is kind of a common trend. You NEED to hit your MS cap, and you want to have your max LS%, then you go from there to your other stats.
As far as the other aspect of this goes... procs are a key issue in D3. Procs are one of the things that makes these loot oriented games fun... but they have to be designed right. There are two correct ways to design a proc for an action rpg: High impact/low chance, low impact/high chance. In the former case, the impact should be something that feels really satisfying when it happens - for example, a 2% chance to cause an explosion sending all targets in an area flying and dealing significant damage. Something that doesn't happen often but you REALLY notice it when it does. On the latter case, something like a 25% chance to knock a single enemy back. It happens often, but doesn't do all that much - yet just having it you feel more powerful because you're constantly doing this cool thing.

b) Droprates
This is a big issue as well. This game suffers from horrendous droprates. One of the things that makes loot-oriented rpgs like borderlands, darksiders, diablo, torchlight, etc. so fun is that you're constantly seeing things drop that you WANT TO LOOK AT. In D3 the only thing you really get excited to identify are legendaries and sets. Rares are a 99.9% bad 0.05% decent 0.05% good proposition, so you never really get excited for one. But a Legendary, even though so many of them suck, they're still exciting.
In D3, you'll only see a legendary maybe once every 3-5 hours of play? Between me and a friend, we've probably played about 20-25 hours in the past few days with around 300% mf(I'm at 350 he's at about 240) and we've only seen 3 total legendaries/sets drop. Yay? The point is that you need to give people motivation, and that motivation is supposed to come in the form of SEEING loot drop that is interesting but not necessarily good. Seeing x legendary drop and going 'wow if only that'd had <blank>' makes you want to hunt for another.
In D2 I'd see somewhere around 15-20 uniques/sets drop an hour on the low end. That was why I kept playing it for as long as I did. It rewarded me for playing. D3 barely holds my attention for a few days whenever I come back to it, and it's largely because of this issue right here. The fact that you just plain don't see legendaries drop that often, which reduces the motivation to keep playing.

c) Variety
This is partially related to (A) but the simple fact is that there just isn't much choice when it comes to loot. Between certain affixes being mandatory, and others being useless, there is a clear right choice when it comes to loot in diablo 3.
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@OP

Op clearly has the mindset of a 5 year old judging by his responses to other peoples points. Op probably argues easter bunny and santa are real because he has seen them in the mall...
Edited by Ket#1747 on 1/3/2013 1:42 PM PST
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Edit: @Arsonyst I've already read through the thread before posting most of the things you bash in about D2, D3 has EXACTLY the same issues with: Duping, Botting, Economy, so why is D3 so much better than D2 and if it is why hasn't it won over their old fans is my question and you haven't answered it.

Instead you're avoiding it in ignorance


I already said it once here:

01/02/2013 07:18 AMPosted by Arsonyst
Though I still see this game as a drastic improvement to D2, it's certainly easier to maneuver in, more comprehensible, maintained it's third person 2d view but with better graphics, easier to make a good build (no more permanent distribution points), crafting items that are actually decent for leveling, and more variation in the stats on items i.e. no two items are exactly alike...etc.


To add to the list, a vastly larger stash space (eliminating the need for mules), quicker grouping for questing/boss runs, AH for getting items quickly when I need them or making gold, and more people to play with.


Where's your statistics to back this up? That's conjecture in its' entirety, and since you've claimed at least 5 times now that an argument is invalid without stats or proof (see the top of this post... why are there more people in D2 than in D3?, or does that fact requirement thing only apply to everyone except you?), then your entire response is inadmissible because it lacks facts and statistics...

As far as your assessment goes, that easier movement, easier inventory, easier character builds, and random items make it better than D2, I completely disagree with you. I absolutely hate the "watered down" aspects, and would have quit before I hit level 20 if the combat system in D3 didn't have such a steep learning curve. Combat is more challenging in D3 than in D1 or D2, and personally, I think that portion is a step forward. Everything else has been turned into generic spoon fed garbage that you can find in any current major game title, and I for one don't feel the Diablo frachise is served well by that treatment.
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@OP

Op clearly has the mindset of a 5 year old judging by his responses to other peoples points. Op probably argues easter bunny and santa are real because he has seen them in the mall...


Do you charge dues to join this club? If not, then sign me up.

(yeah it's cheap, but I'm saving up for some vile wards on the RMAH)
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