Diablo® III

Criticising Diablo 3

Regarding that last part I'm glad to hear you're socially active among the venues that most people check and see, but the forums here are equally as important, if not even more. It's quite disheartening to see these threads & many other things go without any response for pretty much half a month each time.

I know you all have to attend meetings conferences design shakedowns and whatnot, I'm not oblivious to that for sure, but it'd nice to get a check-in from you and the other CMs maybe once a week, daily is just asking too much. I've seen Blizzard's studio and HQ(pretty bold statement I guess), seen development teams and gone through development cycles, game design classes & studios and I know that job is extremely demanding from customers(i.e the players) and highly stressful with crazy crunch time and OT during certain phases of milestones and the like. But a simple drop-in weekly would be nice rather than silence for half a month to something else.

Maybe even just rumor debunking would be nice, or small tidbits of why the blog posts are delayed or something. Not asking for miracles or lies here just some communication.


With the exception of our [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/8163086/Happy_Holidays-12_21_2012"]holiday break[/url] and whatever time each of us take off for events or vacations throughout the year, we’re here, and we’re busy. Each week we have [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/"]numerous blogs[/url] that go up concerning a variety of topics, and pretty much every weekday one or more of us are actively posting updates to our social media sites as and posting here on the forums. While what we post on might not always be the issue that concerns you most, I can assure you we don’t go months without posting (I’ve posted about a half a dozen times here today, and Lylirra is very active as well). But when time and schedule allows, I’m personally trying to squeeze in more time to post here and [url="https://twitter.com/Vaeflare"]elsewhere[/url] on the “interwebs.” :)

As I said though, we’re definitely interested on continuing to improve communication with the community. One of the things we’re looking into is a better method to make sure that important “Blue” posts are highlighted, since I suspect many inadvertently are overlooked (which explains some of the repeat questions I see so often).


That's not being busy. That's just doing your easy cakewalk job. I can browse the internet and post links and make useless polls also. The Masses want the Blues to give at least weekly updates on the status of PvP and other future updates. Starcraft 2 does this all the time, so why can't you match their standards?
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They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.


You didn't want to give the players a penalty for wrong choices that's the Dev teams excuse for no stat points?

How many freeking years did D2 not have tokens? I mean you couldn't just add tokens and call it good?
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They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.


You didn't want to give the players a penalty for wrong choices that's the Dev teams excuse for no stat points?

How many freeking years did D2 not have tokens? I mean you couldn't just add tokens and call it good?


lol you have a very good point..

I think it comes down to how causal can we make it so our WoW players can play it...
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01/08/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Vaeflare
They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.


This is what differentiates a pro/hardcore gamer from a rookie. It should have been kept this way. The current system you have in place is not rewarding because everyone is exactly the same when you strip them of their gear. not cool blizzard... not cool.
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01/08/2013 07:24 PMPosted by Mendacium
If this is not the online only game, this problem would never happen.


This is a term of art in project management/development. It means that the dev team does not have the resources (i.e. time in man-hours, money, etc) to work on/perfect those features. It is not the technical definition of "bandwidth" relating to server ability and such.

Just wanted to clarify that for you.


Right, thanks for the clarification.

I have views in this term of bandwidth too.

If the dev team is limited in resources, which I agree that it happens to every dev team (I'm not arguing about blizzard may have a bigger team than other companies), the team lead shouldn't have waste the time of their developers.

They are humans, need rest, and need to have their hard works justified.

HOWEVER, what leadership that their team lead has led them to?

Pre-release, removal of alchemy artisan, charm talisman, elemental effects

Those are REMOVED, never get to see the light of the game but these are works done by the developers, wasted.....

Even the latest news, Arena for PvP, work started since development, developers worked over it till the last blog, which their awesome leader told them that the work they have done is useless/boring, and hence it is halt after 2 week worth of testing.

If a leader has the vision of good game, has the vision of game development, has ability to recognize talents and unleashing their latent potentials, the efforts put in by the developers will not be wasted.

He could have use those that is already completed and make them into a side/mini game with no relation to the actual game than removing them entirely. Features should be additions and modifications, not removal. Might as well remove the whole game since they are boring to several.

The lead will surmount to huge amount of stress due to justification of his salary, the decision made, and the directions the game/company is going. I getting the feeling that his team don't dare to sound out their frustration to him and that's partly the reason of wasted efforts.

A team if mutually respected, will feedback to each others, and these subtle messages could never be logged in the meeting minutes, since the ideas will be so casual yet meaningful.
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01/08/2013 07:41 PMPosted by TeraFlare
They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.


This is what differentiates a pro/hardcore gamer from a rookie. It should have been kept this way. The current system you have in place is not rewarding because everyone is exactly the same when you strip them of their gear. not cool blizzard... not cool.


IT's about causals..

Causal Gamer - A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited. Casual gamers tend to play games designed for ease of gameplay and don't spend much time playing more involved games. The genres that casual gamers play vary, and they might not own a specific video game console to play their games. Casual gaming demographics vary greatly from those of traditional video games, as the typical casual gamer is older and more predominantly female. One casual gamer subset is the "fitness gamer", who plays motion-based exercise games.

The term casual gamer can also be used to distinguish between play styles of level-based character advance in nonlinear games with respect to the amount of dedicated hours of play. MMORPGs may require many hours of grinding to develop a character to maximum level and reach the endgame. Other games like Eve Online and The Lord of the Rings Online try to balance leveling so that casual gamers can play along with those dedicating more hours to the game.

Mid-core gamer - A core or mid-core gamer is a player with a wide range of interests and enthusiast toward creative and diverse games, but without the amount of time spent and sense of competition of a hardcore gamer. The mid-core gamer enjoys complex games but won't buy every novel release, doesn't have time for long games, and is a target consumer that needs features not found in games for the other types. Nintendo president Satoru Iwata stated that they designed the Wii U to cater to a core gamer who is between the casual and hard-core categories.

Hardcore gamer - Hardcore gamers prefer to take significant time and practice on games, and tend to play more involved games that require larger amounts of time to complete or master. Hardcore gamers may take part in video game culture such as competitions, events and conventions. Competitions are another defining characteristic of hardcore gamers, who often compete in organized tournaments, leagues, or ranked play integrated into the game proper, an example of this is Major League Gaming, an Electronic sports organization that often holds events for hardcore First-person shooter games such as Quake. There are many subtypes of hardcore gamers based on the style of game, gameplay preference, hardware platform, and other preferences.

So the die-hards of D2 look at D3 as a causal game... Most people that love d3 hate PoE's skill tree cause it's too complex hence they call it stupid..
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01/08/2013 07:41 PMPosted by TeraFlare
They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.


This is what differentiates a pro/hardcore gamer from a rookie. It should have been kept this way. The current system you have in place is not rewarding because everyone is exactly the same when you strip them of their gear. not cool blizzard... not cool.


You seem to have made it through Inferno, being SO unsatisfied with it ?

Just amazing. Btw, the same could be said of D2, because once gear was gone, all you had left were builds, most likely done in cookie cutter fashion, and you all know Im right. I know that hurts to hear, but its most likely fact.

caJAI
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While there are aspects of the game you’re bound to jive with, there are undoubtedly others that simply might not be your cup of tea (or blood, since we’re talking about slaying demons here). If you’ve noticed something that you think could be improved, we truly do want to hear about it, but bear in mind that while a lot of feedback we receive sounds really neat (and believe me, I’ve seen some incredibly awesome ideas floating around here), that doesn’t mean we have the bandwidth to do it all, nor that we necessarily believe that certain ideas are best for Diablo III. But as I’ve said before, we’re down to continue to improve it and make it the best game we possibly can.


vaeflare, i don't mean to be offensive. from one cat lover to another. but i seriously feel like all the changes that have currently been brought to the game are those that are the least expensive, the easiest quick-fix solutions, cosmetic, and not necessarily those that will save OUR game from an inevitable shelving. OUR game has been out for nearly 8 months now, and not a hole lot has changed...especially considering the amount of negative feedback that has been given concerning OUR game.
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01/08/2013 07:27 PMPosted by Monsta
They're removing a death timer, stop acting like a drama queen. jeebus!!!


oh I'm sorry i thought this was the correct place to constructively discuss the game... and as i already stated, its not the death timer I care about, it is the fact that time and effort was spent on adding a feature to a game to later remove it. I'm also quite sure that your only classes being a wizard and demon hunter has nothing to do with your post at all.
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01/08/2013 07:49 PMPosted by Necx


This is what differentiates a pro/hardcore gamer from a rookie. It should have been kept this way. The current system you have in place is not rewarding because everyone is exactly the same when you strip them of their gear. not cool blizzard... not cool.


IT's about causals..

Causal Gamer - A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited. Casual gamers tend to play games designed for ease of gameplay and don't spend much time playing more involved games. The genres that casual gamers play vary, and they might not own a specific video game console to play their games. Casual gaming demographics vary greatly from those of traditional video games, as the typical casual gamer is older and more predominantly female. One casual gamer subset is the "fitness gamer", who plays motion-based exercise games.

The term casual gamer can also be used to distinguish between play styles of level-based character advance in nonlinear games with respect to the amount of dedicated hours of play. MMORPGs may require many hours of grinding to develop a character to maximum level and reach the endgame. Other games like Eve Online and The Lord of the Rings Online try to balance leveling so that casual gamers can play along with those dedicating more hours to the game.

Mid-core gamer - A core or mid-core gamer is a player with a wide range of interests and enthusiast toward creative and diverse games, but without the amount of time spent and sense of competition of a hardcore gamer. The mid-core gamer enjoys complex games but won't buy every novel release, doesn't have time for long games, and is a target consumer that needs features not found in games for the other types. Nintendo president Satoru Iwata stated that they designed the Wii U to cater to a core gamer who is between the casual and hard-core categories.

Hardcore gamer - Hardcore gamers prefer to take significant time and practice on games, and tend to play more involved games that require larger amounts of time to complete or master. Hardcore gamers may take part in video game culture such as competitions, events and conventions. Competitions are another defining characteristic of hardcore gamers, who often compete in organized tournaments, leagues, or ranked play integrated into the game proper, an example of this is Major League Gaming, an Electronic sports organization that often holds events for hardcore First-person shooter games such as Quake. There are many subtypes of hardcore gamers based on the style of game, gameplay preference, hardware platform, and other preferences.

So the die-hards of D2 look at D3 as a causal game... Most people that love d3 hate PoE's skill tree cause it's too complex hence they call it stupid..


Really bummed out that you dislike casuals so much ;)

Must be a real tough life for you.

I hate to break it to you, but this 'casual' gamer also played D2:LOD for 100+ hours with a relatively hardcore friend, and enjoyed it alot. D3 isn't D2. Might go easier on your nerves, if you got over that ;)

cu
caJAI
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01/08/2013 07:50 PMPosted by TeraFlare
While there are aspects of the game you’re bound to jive with, there are undoubtedly others that simply might not be your cup of tea (or blood, since we’re talking about slaying demons here). If you’ve noticed something that you think could be improved, we truly do want to hear about it, but bear in mind that while a lot of feedback we receive sounds really neat (and believe me, I’ve seen some incredibly awesome ideas floating around here), that doesn’t mean we have the bandwidth to do it all, nor that we necessarily believe that certain ideas are best for Diablo III. But as I’ve said before, we’re down to continue to improve it and make it the best game we possibly can.


vaeflare, i don't mean to be offensive. from one cat lover to another. but i seriously feel like all the changes that have currently been brought to the game are those that are the least expensive, the easiest quick-fix solutions, cosmetic, and not necessarily those that will save OUR game from an inevitable shelving. OUR game has been out for nearly 8 months now, and not a hole lot has changed...especially considering the amount of negative feedback that has been given concerning OUR game.


OOps, cold hard facts to you and others who think LIKE you; this game isn't just FOR YOU. I'ts our game too. You need to share ;)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5149617219?page=1 < similar 'statements' were going on then too. How so often things don't change ;)

cu
caJAI
Edited by cajunctionAI#1755 on 1/8/2013 7:58 PM PST
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Unsatisfied and disapointed. I gave myself high hopes for this game, thinking that the next big "end game feature" was just around the corner. diablo 3 has no turns or curves, its a straight line, all the way to paragon 100, and beyond.

01/08/2013 07:50 PMPosted by cajunctionAI
Just amazing. Btw, the same could be said of D2, because once gear was gone, all you had left were builds, most likely done in cookie cutter fashion, and you all know Im right. I know that hurts to hear, but its most likely fact.


Diablo 3 has 5 characters to play from, each of which, once the max lvl is reach are exactly identical within one another. wizard1=wizard2=wizard3=wizard4.

Diablo 2 had 5 classes (before expansion), and these classes have a full panoply of changes that can be made to make them different from one another, hence feel like your own.
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Really bummed out that you dislike casuals so much ;)

Must be a real tough life for you.

I hate to break it to you, but this 'casual' gamer also played D2:LOD for 100+ hours with a relatively hardcore friend, and enjoyed it alot. D3 isn't D2. Might go easier on your nerves, if you got over that ;)

cu
caJAI



Grats I'm happy for you.. I'm glad you have a perfect game that fits your play style.. Truly I am..

As for D3 being causal yeah I'm accepting the factor they want a easy game.. Pay2Win.. Nerf inferno a bunch of times..

However I can say one can hope they make the game harder.. but leave it easy for those that want it to be..

Account never expires so it's all good with me..
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Really bummed out that you dislike casuals so much ;)

Must be a real tough life for you.

I hate to break it to you, but this 'casual' gamer also played D2:LOD for 100+ hours with a relatively hardcore friend, and enjoyed it alot. D3 isn't D2. Might go easier on your nerves, if you got over that ;)

cu
caJAI



Grats I'm happy for you.. I'm glad you have a perfect game that fits your play style.. Truly I am..

As for D3 being causal yeah I'm accepting the factor they want a easy game.. Pay2Win.. Nerf inferno a bunch of times..

However I can say one can hope they make the game harder.. but leave it easy for those that want it to be..

Account never expires so it's all good with me..


BUt it was harder at one time, then people complained, and then they eased UP on it. Im not sure how you get from there, to harder again , without making it unplayable for someone else. I think Having hardcore mode/Monster Power/Paragon is likely the best . Maybe they will figure out something else, but for now I don't see how that's not enough. D2 even in LOD never even had those things afaik ?

cu
caJAI
Edited by cajunctionAI#1755 on 1/8/2013 8:03 PM PST
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because game companies can't improve stat systems in 12 years. It is nothing more than a dumbing down of the game to sell to younger and less intelligent people. blizzard treats its audience like we are stupid and some people seem okay with this.

but I can agree with being able to allocate your own stats doesn't fit in diablo 3 because the stats themselves are shallow and dull. So allocating your own stats isn't pointless its the shallow design by blizzard that makes it pointless. They chose to go one way but don't tell me being able to allocate your stats is archaic, we just need a dev team that will take the time to come up with a system that is deeper than the one we got in diablo 3.

and honestly i don't think blizzard knows what their design decisions for diablo 3 are anymore. too much flip flopping on almost everything. Old Diablo 2 things making their way back into the game. PVP being scrapped after 2+ years of "testing"(why does it take 2+ years to figure out that TDM isn't working or good? Why?). There just seems to be a lack of direction, vision and focus on what they want diablo 3 to be. They keep saying one thing and doing another.

I think most agree that Itemization is the main problem with diablo 3. (i could be wrong) but i haven't seen this addressed at all(legendaries aside but we all know it should have never had to be fixed in the first place).


Stat/skill point allocation is archaic. Anybody who played D2 in the beginning knows how crappy it was to realize they put too many skill points into a skill they weren't going to use later on and wasted A LOT of time on a toon. Once builds came out that were good, people would save skill points for level upon level waiting for a certain skill to unlock. Does this not sound a little stupid to you? I'm sure you will say something like it gave us freedom, no it didn't grandpa. All it did was punish people for not putting skills exactly the way they needed to be to fully optimize a build. It was a stupid old way of doing things and I'm glad they have the current system in place so I can actually mess around with all the skills instead of regretting putting a point in a useless skill every step of the way to paragon level 100.


yes because i said do it exactly like diablo 2 did. did you even comprehend what i wrote?

Stats and skills can work you just need a team that is wiling to make it work. Fallout 1 and 2 did this really well.

SPECIAL system, while it might not fit within diablo 3 but it proves that when done properly it can work.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_2_primary_statistics

While they are two different games, I am pretty sure with technology and the brain power today we could actually come up with a system that can work with diablo 3. but they chose not to. Which is fine but again don't tell me it can't work or won't work in todays games because it can, if people would stop being so close minded.
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01/08/2013 08:02 PMPosted by cajunctionAI
I think Having hardcore mode/Monster Power/Paragon is likely the best . Maybe they will figure out something else, but for now I don't see how that's not enough. D2 even in LOD never even had those things afaik ?


I thought you were the one who just said you spent plenty of time on diablo 2? monster power was adopted from diablo 2. diablo 2 had/has the same system, and it has been in place for many years... join any game, type /players8 and you will see.

Diablo 2 "invented" hardcore and introduced this first in their series (blizzard north's series) in diablo2 in 2000.

Diablo 2 has a paragon system in place, without artificially making it look like it is a "special" feature. lvl 99, harder to reach than paragon 100.

sorry bro, afaik. i know my d2 better than you ;)
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Grats I'm happy for you.. I'm glad you have a perfect game that fits your play style.. Truly I am..

As for D3 being causal yeah I'm accepting the factor they want a easy game.. Pay2Win.. Nerf inferno a bunch of times..

However I can say one can hope they make the game harder.. but leave it easy for those that want it to be..

Account never expires so it's all good with me..


BUt it was harder at one time, then people complained, and then they eased UP on it. Im not sure how you get from there, to harder again , without making it unplayable for someone else. I think Having hardcore mode/Monster Power/Paragon is likely the best . Maybe they will figure out something else, but for now I don't see how that's not enough. D2 even in LOD never even had those things afaik ?

cu
caJAI


I actually enjoyed D3 at the start... My barb was my first char... Everyone was jumping ship to make a ranged char to do act 4.. Nah not me I kept plugging at my barb.. Was great and enjoyed it..

however shortly after him making it to act 4 they nerfed the crap out of the game.. and it hasn't been the same since... MP was a let down as well..

oh well..
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With the exception of our holiday break and whatever time each of us take off for events or vacations throughout the year, we’re here, and we’re busy. Each week we have numerous blogs that go up concerning a variety of topics, and pretty much every weekday one or more of us are actively posting updates to our social media sites as and posting here on the forums. While what we post on might not always be the issue that concerns you most, I can assure you we don’t go months without posting (I’ve posted about a half a dozen times here today, and Lylirra is very active as well). But when time and schedule allows, I’m personally trying to squeeze in more time to post here and elsewhere on the “interwebs.” :)As I said though, we’re definitely interested on continuing to improve communication with the community. One of the things we’re looking into is a better method to make sure that important “Blue” posts are highlighted, since I suspect many inadvertently are overlooked (which explains some of the repeat questions I see so often).


We are not talking about the guys that post among the forums....We would like as a community, more respect. This meaning more insight on the development of the game. Two weeks ago we were informed of patch 1.0.7 going live sometime after the new year. That has been two weeks ago, where are the patch notes or details of some information or something other than art contests.......I respect all Blizzard employees that post within the forums....Its just the guys thats making the decisions that I dont agree with as I feel they are greedy and only concerned at which way they want the game versus the player base of Diablo.
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