Diablo® III

Criticising Diablo 3

Constructive criticism of D3; I've played my fair share of both D2 and D3, and although D3 shouldn't be a copy of D2, many successful elements of D2 were replaced with inferior substitutes; Imo D2 is superior to D3 in the following; more than 1 or 2 viable builds/class meant real build diversity, skill synergies enhanced skills to varying degrees of power (have more abilities from more skill trees or be a specialist and be crazy good at just a few skills), changing skills was not penalized by removing a bonus like NV and was necessary with monster immunities, weapon choice was skill and ability based involving more than D3's DPS (all classes could use melee and missile weapons and skill points and auras on items meant more than just a damage number), all stats mattered (except energy for some builds), rune words were awesome (could use skills from another class), set item bonuses in D2>D3, selection of charms added more customization, cooperative play was encouraged with up to 8 players and hirelings (D3 penalizes public games with MP0), more selection joining games with a name listing with common goals instead of blind matchmaking, could travel to all acts in the same game (geography was more important since shrines were reusable), more randomization of areas, allowed characters to equip 2 separate sets of weapon and offhand, IDing all items at once, crafting with blacksmith in D3 is worthless, crafting with cube in D2 was always relevant on all difficulties, like rerolling charms and that mid-lv unique could be upped to elite, and last but not least D2 skills were not nerfed, powerful builds remained powerful builds.
Imo the best improvements in D3 besides the obvious graphics are; larger bag/backpack to hold more items while adventuring, larger and shared stash to move items to all your characters, auto gold pickup, and individual share of loot (timing of grabbing loot was more important than killing mobs in D2).
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Well, to be fair to the dev team, I've no doubt they're dedicated to making D3 as good as their vision allows it to be.

It's just unfortunate their vision involves removing many successful mechanics from D2 and replacing them with thinly disguised MMO mechanics.

Personally I didn't want an exact D2 clone with a graphics facelift, but when you consider what an awesome starting platform they had to work with, it's such a shame how much of it they simply chose to ignore.


This is my first time on these forums, and I wanted to know what all the hubbub was about Diablo 3 being a poorly thought out game. I think this has been the most insightful and intuitive response yet. I think the point is this: Diablo 3 is good for what it is, but it's not what many people were hoping for, or expecting based on advertising material. I guess it takes compromise; for individuals to realise that this isn't simply based on the Diablo 2 platform, and for developers to realise this isn't what was expected. It's an interesting attempt at neatly stitching together MMO and ARPG genres. I'm certain it needs tweaks, but Diablo 2 had 12 years to improve.

Accusations of 'this blizzard development team is acting like politicians' or 'they're in it for the money' seem ridiculous, based on the fact that other accusations report they wouldn't change a thing for more subscribers. If anything, perhaps players need to trust developers to listen to their thoughts. I don't think the wage of developers who make important decisions is enough for them to not give a damn about their creation, I certainly hope it's now.

I find a larger sense of community is lacking, to speak to my problems with the game. I think the siege idea is wonderful. I want larger games, with a few more people and the opportunity to do something with those people that is always new and exciting. I have yet to play in the cow level, but I imagine that could be remarkably fun, especially if more random events were implemented.

I also think it unusual to have 5 playable classes, but only 4 players per game.

I still prefer playing Pathfinder with my friends over a beer and chips, when all is said and done. I don't think a video game can compete with sitting around a table with friends and story telling.

Cheers, Karly

EDIT: This is my first time writing on these forums, but I've been reading.
Edited by Velothii#1273 on 1/9/2013 1:59 PM PST
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01/09/2013 03:38 PMPosted by Gunny
Accusations of 'this blizzard development team is acting like politicians' or 'they're in it for the money' seem ridiculous, based on the fact that other accusations report they wouldn't change a thing for more subscribers. If anything, perhaps players need to trust developers to listen to their thoughts. I don't think the wage of developers who make important decisions is enough for them to not give a damn about their creation, I certainly hope it's now.


You're missing a key point here, even though you touched on it yourself. There are no subscribers to D3. This isn't an open ended project. It's not an MMO. They sold a game and are providing minimal support to it after the sale. It doesn't produce much residual income, just what they skim off the RMAH, so they aren't going to devote a lot of resources to the current version of it. It doesn't really matter much to them if you play or if you don't play, as long as you're willing to buy an expansion.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the behind the scenes work was already shifted to developing the expansion. And yes, you will shell out another $60 in the hopes that it will give you the game you thought D3 was going to be in the first place.


They most likely started work on Expansion a whiles back, but that is normal. Since when I look at, "work" in terms of what it is they are doing, it starts at conception. So, there is a very good chance that they have been working on the story, concepts, that sort of thing already. A lot of which no longer is needed with this game (since we are not progressing the story). Whether or not they actually have people working on the actual content, that I do not think is the case. But I am sure given a while, the ground work will start going at it.
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I was going to sit down and type up my own Diablo III criticism thread this weekend, and I still might.

Amazing thread, and agree with a vast majority of your points.

Diablo III wasn't made for veteran Diablo II fans.
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01/09/2013 04:28 PMPosted by Fred
Diablo III wasn't made for veteran Diablo II fans


I agree it wasn't. All we have to do is look at the release date.. right before summer break.

Rush out a game before summer starts so kids pick it up even though the game isn't really finished yet.

Most D2 vets are at least going to be in their 20's or older, this current game is made to play where a 10yr old can pick it up and be successful
Edited by Deadlysynz#1583 on 1/9/2013 4:32 PM PST
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Bravo Bump + infinity. Can only hope this doesnt fall on deaf ears! Or the blind in this case.
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Vaeflare
Vaeflare View posts
Vaeflare Community Manager Thanks for taking the time to craft such a constructive and well-intentioned thread. We really do appreciate the passion of Diablo III players like yourself, and you have some very fair points and feedback, so /highfive for that!

And how an old game had systems inspired already to lead into multiple diversities and that game is full of skill trees and is immensively popular, so those telling me skill trees & stat points is outdated, tell that to a 12 year old game still surviving and is massively going on updates still. It's only outdated if your skill trees/stats don't actually offer any equality between power & variation.

While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III. We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization. They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.

We strongly feel that in general, players will know whether or not they like a particular skill or play style only after they’ve had a chance to try it out for themselves. And while there definitely is some intrigue and fun to permanently committing yourself to a particular character design, it’s not what we envision for Diablo III. We want players to be able to experiment and find a combination of skills and runes that they enjoy and that fit them the best. We also don’t believe that the current skill system would really benefit from a free allocation of stats, either. We think that players can achieve a sizable level of customization through runes, and that this system fits in much better with the overall design of the game.


Better idea would have been to rework the skill tree by adding more skills and then adding runes to each skill. Example of this would be the bonewall skill which would increased life on the wall based on skills added to it. Then on top of that you could specifie a rune to it that did one of the following- %regen on bone wall /%damage reflect/bone explosion on bonewall death dealing a % of dammage based on skill lvl or something like skill points in bonespear or corpes exsplosion/%damage reduction to bonewall.

So here in this example you see how skills/runes should have been used imo. 10 skill points into bonewall it has 10000 life 30 skill points it has 30000 life not to mention the synergies it would recieve from other skills like bone spear or what ever new skills you guys could have come up with. On top of that you would get runes for each one of these skills which would futher add diversity to the skill builds.

As for stats it goes along the lines of what KradisZ said which could tie into the skills power or characters build. Dont want people to have to make a new char over if they mess up then make an upgraded version of the token that way you can learn from your mistakes but dont have to live with them.
Edited by TheForgotten#1928 on 1/9/2013 6:01 PM PST
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You're missing a key point here, even though you touched on it yourself. There are no subscribers to D3. This isn't an open ended project. It's not an MMO. They sold a game and are providing minimal support to it after the sale. It doesn't produce much residual income, just what they skim off the RMAH, so they aren't going to devote a lot of resources to the current version of it. It doesn't really matter much to them if you play or if you don't play, as long as you're willing to buy an expansion.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the behind the scenes work was already shifted to developing the expansion. And yes, you will shell out another $60 in the hopes that it will give you the game you thought D3 was going to be in the first place.
Hahaha... this.
Diablo 3 sold something like 15 million copies. I'd be willing to bet an expansion will sell AT LEAST 5 million copies, probably closer to 10 million.

That my friends, is a success. It doesn't matter if you personally disagree with the game, you still bought it. And you'll still buy the expansion. If not, why else would you waste time on these forums?
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You devs get a lot of hate, but I love the direction the game is heading! Don't let all the haters get you guys down! Please pass this message on to the devs that don't get to read the forums much!
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Hahaha... this.
Diablo 3 sold something like 15 million copies. I'd be willing to bet an expansion will sell AT LEAST 5 million copies, probably closer to 10 million.

That my friends, is a success. It doesn't matter if you personally disagree with the game, you still bought it. And you'll still buy the expansion. If not, why else would you waste time on these forums?


In hopes that devs will see the changes we want in the exspansion. Why give up on something that can still be great if pushed in the right direction. You say why are we still on these forums? Well !@#$ because i care thats why! I want the game to be the best it possibly can. I want our voices to be heard by the big wigs upstairs in control of making the game. That way they can see what we dont like about it what we think can be improved and what they could do to make it happen. Why else would we be here?
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Better idea would have been to rework the skill tree by adding more skills and then adding runes to each skill. Example of this would be the bonewall skill which would increased life on the wall based on skills added to it. Then on top of that you could specifie a rune to it that did one of the following- %regen on bone wall /%damage reflect/bone explosion on bonewall death dealing a % of dammage based on skill lvl or something like skill points in bonespear or corpes exsplosion/%damage reduction to bonewall.

So here in this example you see how skills/runes should have been used imo. 10 skill points into bonewall it has 10000 life 30 skill points it has 30000 life not to mention the synergies it would recieve from other skills like bone spear or what ever new skills you guys could have come up with. On top of that you would get runes for each one of these skills which would futher add diversity to the skill builds.

As for stats it goes along the lines of what KradisZ said which could tie into the skills power or characters build. Dont want people to have to make a new char over if they mess up then make an upgraded version of the token that way you can learn from your mistakes but dont have to live with them.


This seems like it might work for skill points, it would seem to have the depth that any skill point system would have to have in order to work. One where you could take the earlier tiered skills and make them useful in endgame but without boosting their power to the level where they are way OP'd.

A similar system for stat points is what is needed as well, one that has depth. Like I said in other threads one where if you spend 100 points into defensive stat A and I choose defensive stat B. Both would yield about the same result. I would have about the same survivability as you would. It would boil down to a matter of play style.
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It is because there really aren't any hardcore number crunching old school week long strategy board game players working for Blizzard

They have plenty of RenFaire types though so you get all the imaginative stuff that ends up becoming fluff cause no one knows how to divise a dynamic system to integrate everything in a meaningful way. So it just boils down to dps and dyes


Hire me, I believe I'm experienced enough. No portfolios to share, but can produce results if paid.
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D3 needs more areas with higher monster density, running the same few areas in act 3 is dull, more players would enjoy the game with higher monster density in the other acts.
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Real complexity in D2's system, okay here is a bonemancer build

20 Teeth
20 Bone Spear
20 Bone Spirit
20 Bone Wall
20 Bone Prison
1 Bone armor
1 Corpse Explosion
1 Clay Golem
1 Golem Mastery
1 Summon Resist
The remaining five goes into the curse tree to get useful curses.


That is 10 spells that work along side with each other, not counting the 5 curses from curse tree.

I can even get a metal golem from WHITE item. What is the purpose of white in D3? Environmental litters?

The interaction with the in game environment is so limited too. You use meteors to break barrels? Can open any chest? Dragon forge, chandelier, falling wall, fallen debris, burning floors. All these are there to kill the players but never aide the players in anyway, so players just avoid them.

I admit that locked chest is a thorn in butt, though a game that doesn't require any thinking to play should gives us the hack and slash feel like in field/keep depth. If not, make these environment 'trap' usable to kill monsters without the need of good gears. (kill only)

Even in D2, there's something in game terms call Fog-of-war, which hides those danger from the players to give the thrill and alertness when playing the game. The only excitement in this game is Hardcore, but since it's an online only game...............
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