Diablo® III

Criticising Diablo 3

Posts: 14,245
View profile


Are you saying that giving infinite free respecs totally changes how the skills are designed? Are you saying that giving infinite free respecs totally changes how the gear functions? Are you saying that all hell viable builds would be invalidated with free infinite respecs? If yes to all please explain how it would totally change the skills, gear and everything else. How would it do that if no other changes to the game would be made?


Customization is not derived based on how the skills are designed. Customization is derived based on how you develope your character in meaningful ways to distinguish it from any other character you or any other person creates.

At this present time, Diablo III characters are customized based on class choices and sex choice (male/female). Character name gets an asterisk because you rarely if ever even see it. I main a male Barbarian named Mith. That's as specific as I can be, because nothing else about him that I can decide on matters so far as distinguishing him from any other character.

Gear choices are dependent on RNG or your wallet, and are thus not meaningful as a means of player derived customization.

Skill choices are transient. They are meaningless in distinguishing your character because you can change them at any time without any kind of meaningful penalty, and do so as many times as you like.


So I see I have to explain myself more than that. You could not tell that those comments were about D2. Very well Watson I will again ask the same questions this time clearly stating D2 for all to see.

How would free infinite respecs in D2 change how the skills are designed? How would free infinite respecs in D2 change how the gear is designed and function? You are saying that free infinite respecs in D2 would make all viable builds non viable and customization would not exist at all.

I think I know the real problem here, you feel like you have an IP to protect. Like that build is so much yours that no one else has the right to have it. Well in D2 anyone could build the same build you had in that game easily and it was just a few mouse clicks away as well. Sure it would take some time. But if you did some rushing you would be able to get into hell in no time at all.

Customization does come from how the skills are designed. I mean in D2 how it is now, the differences between a fire sorc and a lightning sorc are big. You choose and enchant build sorc and I happen to choose the same thing. Now would I build it differently than you or you build it differently than me. Probably not if you want to do a lot of damage with fire you will not spend your skill points any different than me. So where is your only real difference is in gear.

Same here I have the builds that I want and made them myself. They are not builds that I got online or copied them from someone else. They are builds that I have tested and they work just fine for me. Just check my three dreads an you will see for yourself. None of them are the popular builds for their class. None of them are the strongest builds for their class AFAIK.

Also the gear that the three dreads are using came from the gold auction house not the RMAH. Sorry I will not use that auction house because I do not trust PayPal anymore.
Reply Quote
Posts: 14,245
View profile
01/11/2013 01:10 AMPosted by Singularity
I want the character to feel like my creation. Even if he is a failed experiment (trust me, there were a lot of failed experiments building a melee necro), I want the ability to screw up. It's one thing (of many) that made Diablo a little more hardcore than a few other games on the market. If you wanted to solo the highest difficulty, you better bust out the graph paper, take some notes, talk to some friends and plan it for a while, because every step you take is permanent. People appreciated that, and it helped create a community where people talked about their characters and their builds.


Right now the three dreads in my profile are my own. I choose all six skills/runes. I choose the passive skills as well. I did not copy and paste them from some guide. Go ahead and look at them and show me, prove to me that they are the strongest builds for the class and it was a simple copy and paste, I am waiting.

Just because you can respec does not mean that you have to use it once you find a build that you like. How many players deleted their level 70 characters that they built themselves without a guide, the builds that they had fun playing

So you are saying that there are no bad builds in this game. What does free respecs remove all bad builds, giving you the ability to make any possible combination work? Okay then slap together a wizard build where he/she has all four shields, a familiar, and a signature spell. Now use it to solo inferno Diablo and tell me where you get.

Same thing was true in D2 you were always a delete button away from erasing what you call permanent. Since you could rush your way to the top and quickly get to the level you wanted. That came very close to equaling the free respecs that are here in this game. More so if your only intention was to beat hell Baal and not make it to level 99 with that build.

Also you say that building character in D2 was extremely complex just check my previous post where I showed how easy it is to figure out a build for a bonemancer as far a spending your skill points. Now the only thing left for me to do is to figure out the gear that would be the best for that necro. That would not be hard or take me a lot of time I would not need to do a lot of math in order to succeed. Also to solo hell difficulty you could do it without having the most optimal builds in the game as well.
Reply Quote
Posts: 14,245
View profile
I repeat - once someone's played 50-100 classes to 80+ like I and many, many others, what's wrong with being rushed a few times? Does that mean I was annoyed with the game for encouraging me to play again and again..?

Come on, man. You're smarter than that, surely.


No I am not saying that rushing was wrong. I am talking about an attitude, if someone truly loves to do something then they are not as likely to rush. A good cook that loves cooking will take their time to make sure that the meal is cooked properly.

A person that loves the meals cooked by a good cook will also savor every morsel and enjoy every moment. Meaning they will not likely wolf down the meal like food is going out of style. That is unless they have a hectic lifestyle where they have so much to do in a single day that hey do not have the time to sit down and enjoy a meal

That is why I made that comment about dating a woman you might be intending to marry. You would take your time on the dating savoring every moment you spend with her. Getting to know her better each and every passing second would be important to you. You would enjoy the time that you spend with her.

That is what I am talking about and again for emphasis it is an attitude. When a player says he loved leveling new characters but was rushed through all of the time. Then IMO he hated leveling, because he should've taken his sweet time to reach the level needed to beat hell Baal. Instead of making a mad dash to the level needed.

That is how I am I do not rush through anything that I love doing I take my sweet time to enjoy the moment and what I am doing. The same is true for the games that I play. I do not have to get to the same point as everyone else within the same time frame. I am in no hurry at all. I savor every moment of destruction that I wrought on hells minions.
Reply Quote
01/08/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Vaeflare
And while there definitely is some intrigue and fun to permanently committing yourself to a particular character design, it’s not what we envision for Diablo III.


Tell that to the Monk community.

2 builds:
TR for MP0-1
Cyclones (and really nothing else which is remotely viable) for everything else

GG. Good system.

I hope you plan on changing that.
Reply Quote
01/08/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Vaeflare
If you haven’t played in a few months, you might have missed out on some of the item improvements we’ve made along the way. In terms of patch 1.0.4, you might want to check out the blog we did regarding [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6923457/104_Legendary_Item_Improvements-8_14_2012"]Legendary Item Improvements[/url] as well as the various overall item improvements we made in [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7528695/"]patch 1.0.5[/url].

Improving legendary items is a good start, but that still leaves the huge majority of items you pick up looking sad.

I don't understand why D3 needs to be a numbers game. Seeing an item drop with 5 Dex more than the one I have grows old far too quickly, and it's a pretty shallow hook to keep a player in the game. Items need a serious re-evaluation, and you guys really need to add fun item stats into the randomization pool and then understand that playing just to improve your attributes grows stale.

You need to be excited to see an item when you find it, because that item have some fun stuff that you can't wait to try out. That is what makes an item meaningful, not a large number smacked onto it. Actually if sockets would be the only way to itemize attributes, then I'd be great with that. At least it would then leave it complete in the players hands how he want to spend his attributes. But then it would also help if all attributes were meaningful to all classes, whereas now, the main attribute sort of trumps the rest.

I documented my perspective on the matter here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592580995?page=1#0
Reply Quote
70 Tauren Paladin
13565
Posts: 2,870
I repeat - once someone's played 50-100 classes to 80+ like I and many, many others, what's wrong with being rushed a few times? Does that mean I was annoyed with the game for encouraging me to play again and again..?

Come on, man. You're smarter than that, surely.


No I am not saying that rushing was wrong. I am talking about an attitude, if someone truly loves to do something then they are not as likely to rush. A good cook that loves cooking will take their time to make sure that the meal is cooked properly.

A person that loves the meals cooked by a good cook will also savor every morsel and enjoy every moment. Meaning they will not likely wolf down the meal like food is going out of style. That is unless they have a hectic lifestyle where they have so much to do in a single day that hey do not have the time to sit down and enjoy a meal

That is why I made that comment about dating a woman you might be intending to marry. You would take your time on the dating savoring every moment you spend with her. Getting to know her better each and every passing second would be important to you. You would enjoy the time that you spend with her.

That is what I am talking about and again for emphasis it is an attitude. When a player says he loved leveling new characters but was rushed through all of the time. Then IMO he hated leveling, because he should've taken his sweet time to reach the level needed to beat hell Baal. Instead of making a mad dash to the level needed.

That is how I am I do not rush through anything that I love doing I take my sweet time to enjoy the moment and what I am doing. The same is true for the games that I play. I do not have to get to the same point as everyone else within the same time frame. I am in no hurry at all. I savor every moment of destruction that I wrought on hells minions.


Done arguing with you, dude. You really need to stay on topic if you're going to post an argument to a particular quote.

What part of "levelling many characters WITHOUT rushing was fun for many people" do you not understand?

What part of "some people liked being rushed and others don't" don't you understand?

What part of "after levelling many, many characters, I felt like getting rushed a few times on a few characters, this doesn't mean I hated permanent builds" don't you understand?

Your examples are atrociously irrelevant. If I've eaten and thorougly enjoyed and savored the same food 80 times in a row (well, once in D3s case, because rerolling is utterly pointless), I might feel entitled to wolf it down every now and then.

If I've loved 50 women before, I'm sure I'd be more than a little jaded by now, and might be persuaded that true love is a lie, and really couldn't care less about getting to know someone who's only going to break my heart.

Wait, I sound a little off-topic don't I? Ah yeah, that's because I was responding to your irrelevant and nonsensical examples.

By the way, I'm usually quite polite. Your blindness and love for empty rhetoric truly brings out the worst in people.
Reply Quote
01/11/2013 12:16 AMPosted by Mith
Also, the fact that rushing existed tells me that players didn't care about leveling in a game that was all about endgame. But however you want to swing it to support your own argument.


Personally I didn't start rushing until many years after release. At that point I had gone through all the content many many times and tried pretty much every builds I could think of. Even at the end I still had characters I refused to rush.

01/11/2013 02:13 AMPosted by Xoh
I repeat - once someone's played 50-100 classes to 80+ like I and many, many others, what's wrong with being rushed a few times? Does that mean I was annoyed with the game for encouraging me to play again and again..?


This basically
Reply Quote
thank you for posting this....alot of us feel this way...and i keep on convincing myself to play diablo3 because in hopes that they listen to their fans and improve the game.... but with the latest pvp update which didnt tell us much.. i really dont know where this game is going. I would hate to shelf this game especially since it has so much opportunity to grow... but as of right now .. no word on anything.... drops are terrible, grinding you can only do for so long... i even resorted to crafting gems and items in hopes that will bring about some sort of fun but no..... im really at a loss of words with this game
Edited by IceQueen#1136 on 1/11/2013 7:17 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 14,245
View profile
Done arguing with you, dude. You really need to stay on topic if you're going to post an argument to a particular quote.

What part of "levelling many characters WITHOUT rushing was fun for many people" do you not understand?

What part of "some people liked being rushed and others don't" don't you understand?

What part of "after levelling many, many characters, I felt like getting rushed a few times on a few characters, this doesn't mean I hated permanent builds" don't you understand?

Your examples are atrociously irrelevant. If I've eaten and thorougly enjoyed and savored the same food 80 times in a row (well, once in D3s case, because rerolling is utterly pointless), I might feel entitled to wolf it down every now and then.

If I've loved 50 women before, I'm sure I'd be more than a little jaded by now, and might be persuaded that true love is a lie, and really couldn't care less about getting to know someone who's only going to break my heart.

Wait, I sound a little off-topic don't I? Ah yeah, that's because I was responding to your irrelevant and nonsensical examples.

By the way, I'm usually quite polite. Your blindness and love for empty rhetoric truly brings out the worst in people.


Look this game proves to me that players hate leveling characters in D2. If you have to be forced to reroll then you do not enjoy leveling. Heck I can delete any character that I wish at anytime that I wish and start over if I wanted to.

This is where the game separates the ones that love making alts and the ones that do not. If the only way you would make an alt is because you have to in order to try out new builds then you clearly do not like making alts.

Guild Wars 1 was mentioned earlier, it had an unlimited free respec. The only restriction was you had to do it in town. So if you were a sword build and found a great axe. Just pop back to town and switch to an axe build. So by your and everyone else's standards Guild Wars 1 did not have any customization either, because there was not any permanence of your choices at all.

In conclusion let's just say we agree to disagree. We see a love of things a little differently.
Reply Quote
Look this game proves to me that players hate leveling characters in D2. If you have to be forced to reroll then you do not enjoy leveling. Heck I can delete any character that I wish at anytime that I wish and start over if I wanted to.

This is where the game separates the ones that love making alts and the ones that do not. If the only way you would make an alt is because you have to in order to try out new builds then you clearly do not like making alts.

Guild Wars 1 was mentioned earlier, it had an unlimited free respec. The only restriction was you had to do it in town. So if you were a sword build and found a great axe. Just pop back to town and switch to an axe build. So by your and everyone else's standards Guild Wars 1 did not have any customization either, because there was not any permanence of your choices at all.

In conclusion let's just say we agree to disagree. We see a love of things a little differently.


Whoa hang on, there first off, before you say anything further,

what the hell is customization to you in any game then? It's certainly not D3 based on your last little paragraph there and it certainly isn't D2 based on your earlier posts, so what is it? No freedom & complete freedom on your abilities = still no customization on your perspective? Maybe it just doesn't exist?

And as for D2 if you hated leveling your character let me tell you this I absolutely DESPISE levelling in D3, it's completely POINTLESS from 1-59 and is absolutely forced down your throat in order to UNLOCK your skills, in D2 it may be artificial or an illusion but that's the whole point. Don't even bring up the argument that it's old and outdated, yeah no kidding it's 12 years old think a little please. D3 had 12 years to reflect upon it. In d3 it's BLATANTLY OBVIOUS levelling is POINTLESS from 1-59. Why? because you're a replica of everyone else who is now at level 60 in every sense of character development, so you may as well have started off there. If it takes a person 50x through to reach the same build I went through then that's them, and I at least know I'm unique in that regard vs. them.

Diablo 3 you aren't, you especially know this and if you actually want to disagree upon this I'd have to say you've simplified your gaming tastes down to a newborn's difficulty in drawing circles on a piece of paper. You can literally run Disintegrate the moment you unlock it from normal nightmare hell and then once you reach inferno just switch to archon and pure dmg, kill or be killed, or just go CM wiz, not hard to figure out what drops cooldown on your skills.

GW1 makes a big difference in this sense is that yuo don't have the same skills as everyone from that journey of level 1-20, at level 3 or 4 already when talking to a skill master you already have 20-40 other choices to permute from vs. everyone else, sure some will unlock the same others will unlock another one, and eventuallyl everyone will have the skill and what not. But that's EVENTUALLY, whereas Diablo 3 it's IMMEDIATELY, if Blizzard wasn't behind Diablo 3 at all and it's exactly the same game you have now and it wasn't even named Diablo I swear to god this game wouldn't even make the news

IF you're talking about Paragon levels that's just an added bonus for GRINDING A LOT, small reward for an IMMENSE time sink.

Making an Alt in D3 means you wanted the opposite gender of a class or you just wanted to go for a rewind of a trip on your same character, you don't have any customization beyond that, trust me.


If we had to make alts to try new builds, THAT would mean you have a different PALETTE of a character on the roster rather than 1 that fits ALL.

Guild Wars 1 isn't like that btw, if you haven't played you don't have access to all 200-400 skills for each class upon reaching max level 20. My character on Guild Wars 1 is technically level 2364 from all the skill points its gained but it didn't exactly take one run from 1-20 to unlock everything, especially elite skills. Acquiring skills and making hybrid combinations or single combinations from 2 classes or 1 class respectively is a LOT more customization than D3 ever will have to offer, as for axe and weapon and what not its STILL more customization then D3 has currently. Axe -> Big deal You can go deep wound armor penetration heavy hitting criticals OR you could go aoe and partial heavy armored tactic skills for survival and tank and such. Not to mention the weapons all have upgradeable or changeable properties like 12 to choose from among each one, like a sword can have a different sword pommel, or a sword hilt, or an enchanted elemental blade on it. Sorry! D3 has no elemental damage it's just a gimmick!

To actually max a character in Guild Wars 1 takes about more than a year or half a year of non-stop playing doing a multitude of things and not just grind. First Paragon to 100 was like what? 1 month in?

D3 it's level 1-60 then 1-100, after that you're maxed, items are never BiS there's nothing but a cap that never fits at the top of the bottle so it continues endlessly.

D3 yeah no your skill pool is only so big and everyone can wear whatever the fuzz they want, and make no real sense of it, meaning everyone's the same across in terms of weapon sense. In real life you're not goign to be extremely skilled with a bow, then a javelin, then at fencing, or with badminton or basketball or something; it takes training. Stats in Diablo 3 is just a signature of power not so much anything to do with your character, that's why everyone goes mainstat+vit. you want a more clearcut example?

Paragon Level 100 you have I don't knwo how much but whatever I know it's mostly like 400 into main stat and like 140 into other stats. Take Barb for example 140 into int is like +20 all res or something... would you really let the system automatically allocate that and accept it with it saying "You need +20 res and that +140 int really dont' doubt me" vs. +140% mainstat damage and +140 armor?
It's blatantly obvious which one is better and accepting auto allocation with no choice in the matter = accepting stupid and being stupid.

GW1 everyone can wear whatever the fuzz they want but stats make meaning of them and are able to be re-speced in town just as well, sure you can pump everything into one stat if you want and be completely centered around it, or you can spread your stats out and do somethign creative with your skills, or have the spread equally around everywhere and do something rather interesting most people can't think of, like a battery necromancer with 50 hp for example vs. a 500hp minion master that's constantly sacrificing HP vs. a cursing necromancer of inflicting multiple conditions and things that drop monsters or doing indirect damage, vs. a healing necromancer that heals the party fairly quickly based on how fast things die around them vs. annoying vampiric lifesteal necros.

D3 it's nothing from jumping one end of a branch to another it's just, get DPS get minimal CC on skills have a survival skill, pump ALLRES ARMOR IAS CHD C.Chance MainStat + Vit. Anything else really? I mean the mentioned stats fit ALL BUILDS and requires 0 thinking and 0 customization, to get anything else would be ridiculous and you'd be making yourself a weakened fool. Your stats have no bearing on your skills and is just an attunement to overall power which fits overall ALL skills, which means they have no affect on skills. Your skill modifiers are held by Blizzard's hand not yours. GW1 your stats hold your skills' modifiers not ArenaNet

Oh one last thing, your wizard/monk/barb/dh/wd female all = wizard/monk/barb/dh/wd female same with male, 0 customizaton haha, hairstyle all the same, body structure all the same couldn't even scale my char to look fat or anorexic or have a different hairstyle. <- Any other triple A company game these days doesn't do this if you really want to talk about "CUSTOMIZATION". Even TL2 is at the border of just a few model swaps.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/11/2013 10:18 AM PST
Reply Quote
I understand where the people who hate on D3 are coming from.
The good thing about D2 was that it felt like you were making a character and leveling him up and equipping things you found... sure you would farm areas or have a MFer do some farming for your Barbarian frenzy build.. but at least you werent going to the local auction house to buy that super godly legendary. This to me just kills the feel of a farming game.
More loot less economy.
--
Not sure if I am a huge fan of the constant respecing on skills either... what I would prefer to see is if you make a mistake on a skill - usually found later on. There are increments where you can respec... like every 10th level.
--
I like D3 it is a better game in some ways... but incredibly worse in others. I dont think its really a huge issue to me.. like it is for others... as I dont really play many other games... but I get it. The one thing that some people do have to take into consideration is that maybe the D3 players are just better and smarter than Blizz gives credit. Maybe Blizz needs to hire a few legit hardcore gamers who shred this game with no issues and get them to work on it a bit.
--
I just feel that finding the items I need to make my characters even have a shot in Ubers is not going to happen unless I use the AH which I have but I have to say... its not the same feeling when you buyout something as it is when you get it from a drop in a boss fight...
there is no satisfaction.
I can pull out my credit card and I win.... thats lame.
Reply Quote
Posts: 14,245
View profile
I understand where the people who hate on D3 are coming from.
The good thing about D2 was that it felt like you were making a character and leveling him up and equipping things you found... sure you would farm areas or have a MFer do some farming for your Barbarian frenzy build.. but at least you werent going to the local auction house to buy that super godly legendary. This to me just kills the feel of a farming game.
More loot less economy.


AH are just a tool for trading and only a factor in the loot drops. They are something that you can avoid if you want to and find the quickest way to farm for them. Just learn how to be an efficient farmer and make that choice.
Reply Quote


Customization is not derived based on how the skills are designed. Customization is derived based on how you develope your character in meaningful ways to distinguish it from any other character you or any other person creates.

At this present time, Diablo III characters are customized based on class choices and sex choice (male/female). Character name gets an asterisk because you rarely if ever even see it. I main a male Barbarian named Mith. That's as specific as I can be, because nothing else about him that I can decide on matters so far as distinguishing him from any other character.

Gear choices are dependent on RNG or your wallet, and are thus not meaningful as a means of player derived customization.

Skill choices are transient. They are meaningless in distinguishing your character because you can change them at any time without any kind of meaningful penalty, and do so as many times as you like.


So I see I have to explain myself more than that. You could not tell that those comments were about D2. Very well Watson I will again ask the same questions this time clearly stating D2 for all to see.

How would free infinite respecs in D2 change how the skills are designed? How would free infinite respecs in D2 change how the gear is designed and function? You are saying that free infinite respecs in D2 would make all viable builds non viable and customization would not exist at all.

I think I know the real problem here, you feel like you have an IP to protect. Like that build is so much yours that no one else has the right to have it. Well in D2 anyone could build the same build you had in that game easily and it was just a few mouse clicks away as well. Sure it would take some time. But if you did some rushing you would be able to get into hell in no time at all.

Customization does come from how the skills are designed. I mean in D2 how it is now, the differences between a fire sorc and a lightning sorc are big. You choose and enchant build sorc and I happen to choose the same thing. Now would I build it differently than you or you build it differently than me. Probably not if you want to do a lot of damage with fire you will not spend your skill points any different than me. So where is your only real difference is in gear.

Same here I have the builds that I want and made them myself. They are not builds that I got online or copied them from someone else. They are builds that I have tested and they work just fine for me. Just check my three dreads an you will see for yourself. None of them are the popular builds for their class. None of them are the strongest builds for their class AFAIK.

Also the gear that the three dreads are using came from the gold auction house not the RMAH. Sorry I will not use that auction house because I do not trust PayPal anymore.


Customization is not derived based on how skills are designed. This is applicible to all games, be it Diablo III or Diablo II. As answered a few replies ago, granting free and infinite respecs would not change how Diablo II's skills are designed, but it would erase all customization.

How skills are designed determines gameplay and diversity. Presently, the Diablo III design (6 skills only at one time, with little strong interaction between skills that are largely mediocre and poorly balanced against eachother and against the content), offers highly restrictive gameplay with very little diversity. The Diablo II design offered a much broader range of skills to be active at any one time, allowing for much less restricted gameplay. And while many of them were poorly balanced against eachother, most of them were balanced above the challenge level of the content, which allowed for a great deal of diversity. These statements are true and remain true whether or not either system offers respecs.

Again, gear is not customization, because in both games it is entirely RNG or wallet based. At no point can I, for example, take a piece of gear, and make it unique to one of my characters, or alter the stats on it in a meaningful way. Diablo II had a shred of customization in gear in that you had three opportunities per character to stamp a piece of gear with your character's name on it. Diablo III has none.

Furthermore, and again as I said before, customization allows you the opportunity to distinguish your character from any other character that you or anyone else creates. So no, I'm not concerned that I have some magic build that I want to protect from anyone else being able to use. I'm concerned that I have any build out of the 'trillions' available that I want to be able to use to define who and what my character is, but I can't.

In Diablo III, my Barbarian is male and named Mith. That is as far as distinction goes. These is nothing he can do that any other Barbarian that I roll can't. These is literally no reason to have more than one Barbarian in Diablo III. Diablo III has no replay value on a single class basis.

In Diablo II, my Barbarian is named Mith and is a Singer. He has maxed Warcry, Shout, Battle Orders, and Battle Cry. He has minimal strength to equip a very specific set of gear, and has sacrificed any dexterity for block and only has enough Vit for a comfortable HP pool. Everything else he has dumped into Int to increase his Mana pool and regen so that he can spam Warcry all day, every day. He is unique among my Barbs. I have a reason to have more than one Barb, because this Barb can do things my other Barbs cannot, and vice verse. Diablo II has significant replay value on a single class basis.
Reply Quote
Posts: 14,245
View profile
what the hell is customization to you in any game then? It's certainly not D3 based on your last little paragraph there and it certainly isn't D2 based on your earlier posts, so what is it? No freedom & complete freedom on your abilities = still no customization on your perspective? Maybe it just doesn't exist?


I see you just do not get it do you. Well D2's system was not deep enough to provide the customization needed. This system has the best chances of providing true customization as long as all active skills/runes and passive skills become useful in endgame.

Another one that I played for a while has a decent shot at true customization The Secret World. In time your character could learn all 500+ abilities and have all skills taken to max if they wanted to. It would take a lot of grinding to accomplish it but it is possible.

Now tell me was it true that in D2 you unlocked the same skills at the same level on your skill trees as everyone else? Did you get the same number of skill points as everyone else?

If yes to both then according to you all characters of the same class were identical to each other, even though players choose to spend their skill points differently. What was unlocked and how many skill points you got was all the same.

Here it is no different everything is unlocked at the same time like D2 you get the same choices of six active skills and runes as everyone else. Although some players will choose different skills and runes, like me. Take a look at my wizard. I beat inferno Diablo with that wizard and with the current gear that he is wearing. So it shows that the build I am using is viable. Even though it is not the CM or Archon builds that are popular these days.

Those builds are mine, Blizz did not auto choose the active skills/runes and passives skills. They did not slot them for me. I did all of that on my own.
Reply Quote
what the hell is customization to you in any game then? It's certainly not D3 based on your last little paragraph there and it certainly isn't D2 based on your earlier posts, so what is it? No freedom & complete freedom on your abilities = still no customization on your perspective? Maybe it just doesn't exist?


I see you just do not get it do you. Well D2's system was not deep enough to provide the customization needed. This system has the best chances of providing true customization as long as all active skills/runes and passive skills become useful in endgame.


You are confusing diversity with customization.

Diablo II provided both more diversity and more customization.
Edited by Mith#1762 on 1/11/2013 1:27 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 14,245
View profile


I see you just do not get it do you. Well D2's system was not deep enough to provide the customization needed. This system has the best chances of providing true customization as long as all active skills/runes and passive skills become useful in endgame.


You are confusing diversity with customization.

Diablo II provided both more diversity and more customization.


Okay then prove to me that you would be able to have a tri sorc build where the only attacks are the following; Fire Bolt, Ice Bolt, and Charged Bolt.

The more improvements to the skills that the devs make will make all active and passive skills useful. So if you choose the right active skills/runes and passive skills that work well together then you will have way more diversity because you have a larger pool of viable skills at endgame. Which in turn equals more customization.
Reply Quote
01/11/2013 05:36 AMPosted by dannyboi
While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III. We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization. They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice


are you saying we have more customization now? really? am i missing something?
im sure i am but i cant get head around it, there is no customization when its to come items they have the main stats of your char, or there worthless for that char its that simple man..


Agree 100%. I really feel like my character is generic. For example, there are very few builds with my wizard that are viable. Sure, all of them will "work" but good luck using fire element as your base on hell mp10. I did a lot of experimenting and it is pretty much CM/WW or my arcane synergy build(which im sure is common). With all my characters, it just feels like only few skills are worth it and the rest are placeholders and fill-ins. So yes, there is a lack of customization in the skills. Related to this, why did you guys simplify the game so much? Specifically, aside from the skill tree and lack of skill points, why are there 4 gems with very generic, basic attributes? One person a while ago, I believe on reddit, talked about having gems like skulls or diamonds drop from certain monsters or bosses. With all due respect, a billion dollar company that had at least 7 years to develop this game couldnt do better?
Reply Quote
Wtf is "artificial complexity"? Do the people making this game realize they are making a game? A game is all about adding complexity or else it would be just a simple and dull experience.

Honestly who the hell championed such a thought?

Anyone who thinks of such an idea of "artificial complexity" as ruining a game shouldn't be allowed within a mile of a game design studio. What makes a game beautiful is the layering of complex interacting elements.

The team that made Diablo 2 understood this well. The Diablo 3 team just doesn't understand what its doing.

This. Very much this. It we didn't want complexity in games we'd still be playing tic tac toe and no one would have ever invented video games.



You are confusing diversity with customization.

Diablo II provided both more diversity and more customization.


Okay then prove to me that you would be able to have a tri sorc build where the only attacks are the following; Fire Bolt, Ice Bolt, and Charged Bolt.

The more improvements to the skills that the devs make will make all active and passive skills useful. So if you choose the right active skills/runes and passive skills that work well together then you will have way more diversity because you have a larger pool of viable skills at endgame. Which in turn equals more customization.

Oh please... I built a charged boltress. Charged bolt was my primary skill with the support of synergies. Adding the other two skills would have been a nice bonus and made things even easier. If you need proof this can be done then I question whether you have enough experience with the series to have any right to comment on the matter.
Edited by steveman0#1968 on 1/11/2013 5:23 PM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]