Diablo® III

Criticising Diablo 3



You are confusing diversity with customization.

Diablo II provided both more diversity and more customization.


Okay then prove to me that you would be able to have a tri sorc build where the only attacks are the following; Fire Bolt, Ice Bolt, and Charged Bolt.

The more improvements to the skills that the devs make will make all active and passive skills useful. So if you choose the right active skills/runes and passive skills that work well together then you will have way more diversity because you have a larger pool of viable skills at endgame. Which in turn equals more customization.


Prove to you that limiting yourself to three attacks across three different trees is viable? I'm not here to prove to stupid that stupid isn't stupid.

Again, you're also still confusing customization with diversity.

Diablo II offers more customization because it offers more meaningful decisions that define your character. Diablo III offers nothing in this regard besides gender and class.

Diablo II offers more diversity because it has a larger pool of fundamentally distinct builds that are viable. Diablo III has the potential to have a larger pool but as yet is falling flat on its face.
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I like the idea of defending Bastions Keep. That is something I "jive" with.
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01/08/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Vaeflare
While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III.


This and the OP is forgetting one thing, with all the D3 flaws of itself and shortcomings of the previous series, it still does have its' own awesome class builds.

I almost gave up on my wiz but found a guide that explained how to equip a cheap CM/WW... awesome. Also though it took a lot of L2P AH3, I managed to make a 2h WW Barb. Both of these classes have a very FLUID gameplay style. You zero in what's happenning on your screen and have a few simple buttons to press plus figuring out positioning. It's fun, very much like D2.

Afterwards when all said and done you think about items and what else you can do; then it becomes a whole different discussion and has a chance at making long winded OP.
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Customizing a Character / Class:

Using the skill tree - Creating a specific build that heavily specializes in specific skills within the skill tree or creating more of a balanced approach. All builds are ultimately viable in the end because of 2 reasons, both of which deserve their own points:

Using gear - When gear drops with good meaningful stats, it could instantly become a BiS item for a specific build in the tree. You may not know it at the time, but will inevitably find out later. You then hold onto this piece of equipment and later create another character to build around it. All gear can potentially be useful, because of the next point:

Using Stat points - Having stat points available allows to further customize a character into a specialized roll. Using D3 as an example, a DH may want to play more of a tank roll, so they overload themselves with Strength, then further supplement their build with Strength gear. Right now, Str is next to useless for a DH.

All 3 of these points tie into each other, and all of them add to character customization, then further add to re-playability by giving people incentive to build new characters from the gear they find and allocating the proper skills.

No matter which way you look at it or try and argue it, D3 currently does not have this, but D2 did. The current model for D3 now is so dumbed down and simple, nearly all gear is useless and every class shares the same BiS items. This is why there is no customization or diversity in D3. If skill trees and stat points were present, you'd see more of, what we consider trash gear, being used.
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Okay then prove to me that you would be able to have a tri sorc build where the only attacks are the following; Fire Bolt, Ice Bolt, and Charged Bolt.

The more improvements to the skills that the devs make will make all active and passive skills useful. So if you choose the right active skills/runes and passive skills that work well together then you will have way more diversity because you have a larger pool of viable skills at endgame. Which in turn equals more customization.


Prove to you that limiting yourself to three attacks across three different trees is viable? I'm not here to prove to stupid that stupid isn't stupid.

Again, you're also still confusing customization with diversity.

Diablo II offers more customization because it offers more meaningful decisions that define your character. Diablo III offers nothing in this regard besides gender and class.

Diablo II offers more diversity because it has a larger pool of fundamentally distinct builds that are viable. Diablo III has the potential to have a larger pool but as yet is falling flat on its face.


No, I am stating a simple fact, more viable skills at endgame means more viable builds. So more build diversity. But I think I understand where you are coming from.

You say that Blizz went the wrong way with build diversity and should've made it where only about 10 active and passive skills would be viable in endgame. Where you only have about five viable builds per class. Then have trillions upon trillions of bad builds. To you that would be more build diversity and true customization.

But the only thing that would do is annoy the players into looking up the best builds for their class. Hmm, I want a wizard so I have no choice but to make either a CM or Archon build. Barbarians would have to copy and paste the perma WotB WW build. Monks copy and paste the SW build. Sorry but Blizz wants more build diversity not less. That is what they are working on, increasing build diversity and they will continue to improve.
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Prove to you that limiting yourself to three attacks across three different trees is viable? I'm not here to prove to stupid that stupid isn't stupid.

Again, you're also still confusing customization with diversity.

Diablo II offers more customization because it offers more meaningful decisions that define your character. Diablo III offers nothing in this regard besides gender and class.

Diablo II offers more diversity because it has a larger pool of fundamentally distinct builds that are viable. Diablo III has the potential to have a larger pool but as yet is falling flat on its face.


No, I am stating a simple fact, more viable skills at endgame means more viable builds. So more build diversity. But I think I understand where you are coming from.

You say that Blizz went the wrong way with build diversity and should've made it where only about 10 active and passive skills would be viable in endgame. Where you only have about five viable builds per class. Then have trillions upon trillions of bad builds. To you that would be more build diversity and true customization.

But the only thing that would do is annoy the players into looking up the best builds for their class. Hmm, I want a wizard so I have no choice but to make either a CM or Archon build. Barbarians would have to copy and paste the perma WotB WW build. Monks copy and paste the SW build. Sorry but Blizz wants more build diversity not less. That is what they are working on, increasing build diversity and they will continue to improve.


Diablo II has more viable skills and thus more viable builds.

Blizz went the wrong with build diversity because Diablo III has fewer viable skills and thus fewer viable builds.

Try to twist this however you want.
Edited by Mith#1762 on 1/11/2013 7:04 PM PST
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01/11/2013 06:55 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
No, I am stating a simple fact, more viable skills at endgame means more viable builds.

It's too bad D3 has fewer viable skills than its predecessor.
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This perfectly reveals why D3 has disappointed so many of us. You are making these design choices about YOU and what YOU think. You should have made it about US, and what WE think.

We strongly feel that in general, players will know whether or not they like a particular skill or play style only after they’ve had a chance to try it out for themselves. And while there definitely is some intrigue and fun to permanently committing yourself to a particular character design, it’s not what we envision for Diablo III. We want players to be able to experiment and find a combination of skills and runes that they enjoy and that fit them the best. We also don’t believe that the current skill system would really benefit from a free allocation of stats, either. We think that players can achieve a sizable level of customization through runes, and that this system fits in much better with the overall design of the game.


Edit: This was quoted from Vael's initial reply.
Edited by Bootes#1787 on 1/11/2013 7:19 PM PST
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Customizing a Character / Class:

Using the skill tree - Creating a specific build that heavily specializes in specific skills within the skill tree or creating more of a balanced approach. All builds are ultimately viable in the end because of 2 reasons, both of which deserve their own points:

Using gear - When gear drops with good meaningful stats, it could instantly become a BiS item for a specific build in the tree. You may not know it at the time, but will inevitably find out later. You then hold onto this piece of equipment and later create another character to build around it. All gear can potentially be useful, because of the next point:

Using Stat points - Having stat points available allows to further customize a character into a specialized roll. Using D3 as an example, a DH may want to play more of a tank roll, so they overload themselves with Strength, then further supplement their build with Strength gear. Right now, Str is next to useless for a DH.

All 3 of these points tie into each other, and all of them add to character customization, then further add to re-playability by giving people incentive to build new characters from the gear they find and allocating the proper skills.

No matter which way you look at it or try and argue it, D3 currently does not have this, but D2 did. The current model for D3 now is so dumbed down and simple, nearly all gear is useless and every class shares the same BiS items. This is why there is no customization or diversity in D3. If skill trees and stat points were present, you'd see more of, what we consider trash gear, being used.


I say that for skill trees, skill points and stat points. Would only work if there was more depth in D2. Depth where if you choose path A and someone else chooses path B. Both paths would be viable and would have about the same performance. Where the only real difference is how both builds play.

That is the only way that true customization will come from such a system.

D3 though has the potential to have just as much customization options. I think that right now the devs will not only be working on build diversity with more adjustments to the skills and runes. But I hope that it includes making the affixes that are rarely used or the useless affixes more useful to the players. Where the useless affixes become useful without dropping the performance of the character.
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No, I am stating a simple fact, more viable skills at endgame means more viable builds. So more build diversity. But I think I understand where you are coming from.

You say that Blizz went the wrong way with build diversity and should've made it where only about 10 active and passive skills would be viable in endgame. Where you only have about five viable builds per class. Then have trillions upon trillions of bad builds. To you that would be more build diversity and true customization.

But the only thing that would do is annoy the players into looking up the best builds for their class. Hmm, I want a wizard so I have no choice but to make either a CM or Archon build. Barbarians would have to copy and paste the perma WotB WW build. Monks copy and paste the SW build. Sorry but Blizz wants more build diversity not less. That is what they are working on, increasing build diversity and they will continue to improve.


Diablo II has more viable skills and thus more viable builds.

Blizz went the wrong with build diversity because Diablo III has fewer viable skills and thus fewer viable builds.

Try to twist this however you want.


01/11/2013 07:05 PMPosted by steveman0
No, I am stating a simple fact, more viable skills at endgame means more viable builds.

It's too bad D3 has fewer viable skills than its predecessor.


When the both of you say viable are you meaning optimal? If yes, then you are wrong for looking at it in that manner. Viable should mean can it clear inferno with the right gear. Much like my Blizzard/Hydra kitting build that recently cleared inferno.
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ROFL, there's a death timer?

My death timer is about a week long.

Because real skilled players play hardcore, not softcore garbage.

Outside of jokes, the OP is spot on. Except the last week or so, I hadn't touched this game since june.
And ONLY because an old D2 friend emailed me a couple weeks ago begging me to come play with him for old times sake.

This game is bad. Took a great franchise and literally flushed it right down the toilet. The only game I have seen that was worse at release was FF XIV. And that got an entire team fired, went free to play for 2 years, then shutdown so they could just restart and rebuild the entire thing.

Sorry, but for D3 to live up to D2, you'd have to do exactly that with this dev team.
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01/11/2013 07:15 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
When the both of you say viable are you meaning optimal? If yes, then you are wrong for looking at it in that manner. Viable should mean can it clear inferno with the right gear. Much like my Blizzard/Hydra kitting build that recently cleared inferno.

Um what? No, I meant viable. Why would you think otherwise? This should be obvious to anyone with knowledge of both games as the answer is really quite clear.
Edited by steveman0#1968 on 1/11/2013 7:31 PM PST
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Diablo II has more viable skills and thus more viable builds.

Blizz went the wrong with build diversity because Diablo III has fewer viable skills and thus fewer viable builds.

Try to twist this however you want.



It's too bad D3 has fewer viable skills than its predecessor.


When the both of you say viable are you meaning optimal? If yes, then you are wrong for looking at it in that manner. Viable should mean can it clear inferno with the right gear. Much like my Blizzard/Hydra kitting build that recently cleared inferno.


Optimal means one.
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what the hell is customization to you in any game then? It's certainly not D3 based on your last little paragraph there and it certainly isn't D2 based on your earlier posts, so what is it? No freedom & complete freedom on your abilities = still no customization on your perspective? Maybe it just doesn't exist?


I see you just do not get it do you. Well D2's system was not deep enough to provide the customization needed. This system has the best chances of providing true customization as long as all active skills/runes and passive skills become useful in endgame.

Another one that I played for a while has a decent shot at true customization The Secret World. In time your character could learn all 500+ abilities and have all skills taken to max if they wanted to. It would take a lot of grinding to accomplish it but it is possible.

Now tell me was it true that in D2 you unlocked the same skills at the same level on your skill trees as everyone else? Did you get the same number of skill points as everyone else?

If yes to both then according to you all characters of the same class were identical to each other, even though players choose to spend their skill points differently. What was unlocked and how many skill points you got was all the same.

Here it is no different everything is unlocked at the same time like D2 you get the same choices of six active skills and runes as everyone else. Although some players will choose different skills and runes, like me. Take a look at my wizard. I beat inferno Diablo with that wizard and with the current gear that he is wearing. So it shows that the build I am using is viable. Even though it is not the CM or Archon builds that are popular these days.

Those builds are mine, Blizz did not auto choose the active skills/runes and passives skills. They did not slot them for me. I did all of that on my own.


What do I not get? I obviously didn't undersand your perspective of "customization" thus why I asked duh? Stop being so pretentious.

What about secret world, you simply just renamed something that reminds me of guild wars, eventually you'll have them all maxed -_' lol you can do the same in D3 or Vindictus or D2 or TL2

"Now tell me was it true that in D2 you unlocked the same skills at the same level on your skill trees as everyone else? Did you get the same number of skill points as everyone else? "
No they didn't unlock the same skills, they had the CHOICE to learn it or not, if it's unlocked they can use it yes?

# of skill points everyone gets which is the same amounts to the diversity and CUSTOMIZATION available between characters so you're not all the same, how can that not be obvious? Did everyone learn lv1fire bolt + frost bolt + shockbolt at level 3? No? Then you already have diversity and already more customized than someone else vs. your own character. CUSTOM <- define it.

Player A who learns firebolt is not the exact same replica as Player B who learns frost bolt whom are both Sorceresses. <- IF you're going to tell me THAT'S THE SAME you're trippin.

"Here it is no different everything is unlocked at the same time like D2 you get the same choices of six active skills and runes as everyone else"

Don't contradict yourself plz. Here everything unlocks itself setup by Blizzard. You have no choice in the matter. Tell me. why didn't you unlock Archon at level 1 for a wizard? If you're going to apply that analogy to D2 you should then stay consistent and apply D3 the same analogy. Conclusion? Yeah D2 has WAY more diversity than D3. D3 just has an "oh !@#$ I made a mistake" mechanic that's all. D2 eventually gained re-spec through a tedious task which I feel is worth it if you really feel the need to change up your whole build after committing to it.

"Although some players will choose different skills and runes, like me."
Yeah except they can all just profile check you and just copy your stuff, where's the diversity in that. not only that they all have the same choices as you do repeatedly, where if someone in D2 who invests in 1 skill now has a different path than someone else who invested in another path, it's an old system sure but evolving on it isn't exactly hard to make it interesting.

If you can take any formula sheet in real life and just place the answer of someone else's, what customization, uniqueness, diversity is there?

" So it shows that the build I am using is viable. Even though it is not the CM or Archon builds that are popular these days. "
My only question is when did you beat Inferno? Pre 1.0.4 or post 1.0.5? Ever since Enrage Timers were removed & Inferno was nerfed to nothing there has been vastly more viable builds available simply because difficulty decreased. That means make game easier = ALL builds are viable for D3's case, I've played TL2 gaining levels and equipment and stuff on elite doesn't make the game any easier it just brings you up to par w/ the enemy but you can still make it through without getting 1 or 2 shotted just takes some actual dexterity on your own part and skill with enough new game+s the monster eventualyl exceed the level cap as well going beyond level 100. You can't play Diablo 3 1.0.0 if you ever wanted to. Some like original some don't, but if you can't even taste the original soup and the new one is either %^-*ty or bad you still have no idea of how hard/easy it was to begin with.

P.S Your Wizard's build is nothign special, I used that in Inferno before I discovered CM and promptly switched over because it was FAR more viable and effective. Literally the exact same as you have it except disintegrate. BTW Love that you're using Prismatic Armor and Crystal Shell for Energy Armor & Diamond Skin, i mean it's like the same route everyone else took across ALL wizards I've seen in Inferno *chuckle*. Diversity & Customization yeah... what a joke just checking your profile confirms there isn't any.

I haven't logged since August and with good reason but do me a favor will you? Check my profile & look at my Wizard's Energy Armor & Diamond Skin. It's obvious that's the best choice to go in Inferno before they added some things to others but still aren't as enticing as the old.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/11/2013 11:44 PM PST
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01/11/2013 07:29 PMPosted by steveman0
When the both of you say viable are you meaning optimal? If yes, then you are wrong for looking at it in that manner. Viable should mean can it clear inferno with the right gear. Much like my Blizzard/Hydra kitting build that recently cleared inferno.

Um what? No, I meant viable. Why would you think otherwise? This should be obvious to anyone with knowledge of both games as the answer is really quite clear.


Really, when I have seen my fair share of threads and posts. That have asked the devs why don't we have more viable options that are just as efficient as the CM and Archon builds? When players ask that question, they are referring to options that are just as optimal and competitive with those two builds.

I know that there are a fair number of players that love playing the most efficient and truly optimal builds for their chosen class. So when someone says viable I need to ask is it optimal or not. Kind of like asking what is important to you.
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70 Tauren Paladin
13565
I know I'm as much to blame as anyone else, but can we please at least try to continue this discussion without replying to ShadowAegis? It takes a while to notice, but you might as well be talking to a pebble, or a twig - nothing's going to change.
Edited by Sal#6192 on 1/12/2013 3:57 AM PST
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"Now tell me was it true that in D2 you unlocked the same skills at the same level on your skill trees as everyone else? Did you get the same number of skill points as everyone else? "
No they didn't unlock the same skills, they had the CHOICE to learn it or not, if it's unlocked they can use it yes?

# of skill points everyone gets which is the same amounts to the diversity and CUSTOMIZATION available between characters so you're not all the same, how can that not be obvious? Did everyone learn lv1fire bolt + frost bolt + shockbolt at level 3? No? Then you already have diversity and already more customized than someone else vs. your own character. CUSTOM <- define it.


I will expand on this point and you will see what I am getting at.

Now you know that in D2 you can put your points into any skill that is unlocked by the level it unlocks. So at level 2 you can put your first skill point into any of the level 1 skills. The same is true for levels 6, 12, 18, 24, 30.

Now we are well aware that your character in this game knows the skill like unlocking the skill in D2. But you cannot use the skill (D2 no skill points or item granting skill) unless it is on your toolbar

In D2 you got 120 skill points to use spending them where you wanted. Those points increased the skills you were investing points into. But still the skill was the same as everyone else. The only difference was where you invested your points. I will explain further.

Every hammerdin build was identical. So if we both choose a hammerdin then my hammerdin would be the same as your hammerdin as far as skill points goes. I would be dumb not to max the skills needed to make the hammerdin's main attack as powerful as it can be.

So my hammerdin that would have 20 into Blessed Hammer would be the same as your hammerdin that has 20 into Blessed hammer. It would not be me with 20 and you with 15 into Blessed Hammer.

It is the same in this game, where you have six active skill points that only allow you to choose your active skills. Six runic points to choose the runes that you want. And three passive skills points to choose the passive skills you want. All other skills are not available to your character, like in D2 your skills that you did not spend points into were not available unless an items granted your the skill.

Each build that a player chooses in this game plays differently than the next player. An Archon build plays different than a CM build, which plays differently than my kitting build. A perma WotB build plays differently than my shaker barbarian. So that is customization. It is not the way you are use to seeing with skill points and trees. But I say it is way better because all skills can be viable in endgame where as in D2 the earlier tiered attacks had to suck at endgame or you would have the following problem.

In the lower levels you would be one shotting the enemies. As soon as you are approaching the endgame you are getting weaker as you level because it is taking longer to down the enemies with the earlier tiered skills because you are in the area where the skill was designed to take three hits or more to drop the mobs.

Your earlier tiered skills would be way

01/11/2013 11:11 PMPosted by KradisZ
Don't contradict yourself plz. Here everything unlocks itself setup by Blizzard. You have no choice in the matter. Tell me. why didn't you unlock Archon at level 1 for a wizard? If you're going to apply that analogy to D2 you should then stay consistent and apply D3 the same analogy. Conclusion? Yeah D2 has WAY more diversity than D3. D3 just has an "oh !@#$ I made a mistake" mechanic that's all. D2 eventually gained re-spec through a tedious task which I feel is worth it if you really feel the need to change up your whole build after committing to it.


So then in D2 I would be able to spend my first skill point at level 2 into Frozen Or maybe I might be able to buy Iron Skin at level 2 for my barbarian. Come again please.

If you think the den of Evil was hard to accomplish, then you are easily challenged in a game. If your character could not pass the den of Evil then you would not ever get to see the higher levels of difficulty.

" So it shows that the build I am using is viable. Even though it is not the CM or Archon builds that are popular these days. "
My only question is when did you beat Inferno? Pre 1.0.4 or post 1.0.5? Ever since Enrage Timers were removed & Inferno was nerfed to nothing there has been vastly more viable builds available simply because difficulty decreased. That means make game easier = ALL builds are viable for D3's case


Okay then try soloing inferno difficulty with the following wizard build. Have all four shields, a familiar, a signature spell and use the following passives; Glass Cannon, Astral Presence, and Galvanizing Ward. Tell me how far you go into inferno, please do just that okay.

So like others here you are one that is saying that Blizz is going the wrong way with build diversity. They need to make less viable builds and have a crap ton of bad builds. Where the only thing a player gets for the first two hundred hours of play is one bad build after another. That is if they do not get bored with it and either quit or just go online copy and paste the best build in the game.

You do not like it that this game does not fully support the optimal build as the only right build to use.

P.S Your Wizard's build is nothign special, I used that in Inferno before I discovered CM and promptly switched over because it was FAR more viable and effective. Literally the exact same as you have it except disintegrate. BTW Love that you're using Prismatic Armor and Crystal Shell for Energy Armor & Diamond Skin, i mean it's like the same route everyone else took across ALL wizards I've seen in Inferno *chuckle*. Diversity & Customization yeah... what a joke just checking your profile confirms there isn't any.


I could've copy and pasted that build but I did not. I built it on my own, because I went by the following design. I knew to have a good solo build I needed to have good single target skills, good AoE skills and two strong defensive skills. That was the template and will be the template for all other wizard builds
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01/12/2013 03:57 AMPosted by Xoh
I know I'm as much to blame as anyone else, but can we please at least try to continue this discussion without replying to ShadowAegis? It takes a while to notice, but you might as well be talking to a pebble, or a twig - nothing's going to change.


Agreed, based on his ^ previous post his amount of assumptions is amazing. I'm simply done talking to this guy also he's either thick or he thinks I haven't played anything. Quite a laugh but also very obnoxious.

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Every hammerdin build was identical. So if we both choose a hammerdin then my hammerdin would be the same as your hammerdin as far as skill points goes. I would be dumb not to max the skills needed to make the hammerdin's main attack as powerful as it can be.


^ You assume everyone knows wtf a hammerdin is and everyone is a veteran at the game at the beginning knowing wth a hammerdin even is if D2 was just released.

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Now we are well aware that your character in this game knows the skill like unlocking the skill in D2. But you cannot use the skill (D2 no skill points or item granting skill) unless it is on your toolbar


All other skills are not available to your character, like in D2 your skills that you did not spend points into were not available unless an items granted your the skill.


You're either contradicting yourself here or you're being extremely confusing and bad at explaining.

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
It is the same in this game, where you have six active skill points that only allow you to choose your active skills. Six runic points to choose the runes that you want. And three passive skills points to choose the passive skills you want


Wrong, you have no skill points in this game you have 4 slots on a UI bar and a left click and right click slot. There's no indication of these "points" you're claiming. Same goes for passive skills, 3 slots yet a whole table that can be used if simply assigned to a slot. It's so rigid that in programming you want to avoid such a thing known as "Hardcoding" because changing it would be VERY DIFFICULT especially for capacity type things such as this.

Whereas in D2 you said it's only possible to use a skill in the toolbar, yeah okay not if you map your skills to f1-f12 and such really quickly and swap mid battle and press the key on rightclick or something to cast/use the ability. D3 you can't, so what now? That's a cut-off of a feature then. Guild Wars has 8 active slots, they also have skill points, my character has 407 of them.<- 2 different things entirely. Please don't mix them up and fool yourself and have D3 trick you about such a simple concept.

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
In the lower levels you would be one shotting the enemies. As soon as you are approaching the endgame you are getting weaker as you level because it is taking longer to down the enemies with the earlier tiered skills because you are in the area where the skill was designed to take three hits or more to drop the mobs.


You must be thick to be using early tiered skills on endgame in D2, and plus that's 12 years ago once again, d3 did nothign to evolve or expand on that, and as you said 120 skill points, if 20 goes into early crap skills that leaves me with 100 skill points remaining to invest in later end-game skills by default unless you're stupid and just holding 100 SP for nothing and trying to kill everything with early tiered skill, your argument is still flawed.

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
If you think the den of Evil was hard to accomplish, then you are easily challenged in a game. If your character could not pass the den of Evil then you would not ever get to see the higher levels of difficulty.


You assume I haven't beaten Diablo 2 which has no relevance to the subject so either you're out of ideas and had to respond with nonsense or something. Lol wth has this got to do with my example of a different evolution path of character development vs. 1 static path that D3 adopts?

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Okay then try soloing inferno difficulty with the following wizard build. Have all four shields, a familiar, a signature spell and use the following passives; Glass Cannon, Astral Presence, and Galvanizing Ward. Tell me how far you go into inferno, please do just that okay.


Thanks for dodging the question I posed to you, completely lets my point walk all over you in regards to skills & viability & difficulty of the game. Changing the subject and redirecting it to me just means either you don't know what it was like back then or you don't know what you're talking about.

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
So like others here you are one that is saying that Blizz is going the wrong way with build diversity.


Nice assumption again, I simply said Blizz should enlarge the skill pool. Where did I say it's going the wrong way? I said you're going the wrong way, which has nothing to do with Blizz unless you're an employee?
Quoted from page 1 since you seem to like to selectively read:

for Diablo's Skill systems, don't see it happening, they need to just enlarge the pool, as in like Guild Wars 1 style. (1000+ skills jesus no other game has that) maybe not to that extent but if full-respec of skills is available all the time there should be equal efficient optimal builds that have players

------------------

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
They need to make less viable builds and have a crap ton of bad builds. Where the only thing a player gets for the first two hundred hours of play is one bad build after another.

That's called bad game design. Don't know what you're trying to say here. Don't think I care to know after all these assumptions.

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
You do not like it that this game does not fully support the optimal build as the only right build to use.

Again another poor assumption, after all the Guild Wars 1 mentions you still fail to grasp that my mind set is miles away from that so please stop making an !@# of yourself. There is no such thing as a "right build to use", stop getting so de-railed and off topic and digressing into other subjects ffs. Here I"ll be clear cut and concise. I DO NOT LIKE IT THAT THIS GAME IS SO LIMITED & SIMPLE coming from a RICH COMPANY THAT HAS TONS OF RESOURCSE & DEVELOPMENT TIME & STRONG FOUNDATIONS TO CREATE A ENRICH DETAILED GAME. But the game's been made so that's why I made a "Criticising Diablo 3" thread!. Obvious no?

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
I could've copy and pasted that build but I did not. I built it on my own, because I went by the following design. I knew to have a good solo build I needed to have good single target skills, good AoE skills and two strong defensive skills. That was the template and will be the template for all other wizard builds


And by chance and default your two strongest defensives is like what everyone else went. That's not diversity if your most convincing and effective choices is almost the same among oh what was that pie chart months ago? like 87% of wizards made? Lol. the 13% were probably the ones who didn't even play past nightmare and saw the repetition, oh whoops getting off topic.
D3 doesn't have very many viable builds, why would anyone ever equip more than 1 primary skill? Lol that already eliminates a mass amount of options. Unless you're just trying to be a clown and weaksauce & useless, not to mention you can't even make any positive out of doing such things other than to look foolish.
Same with secondary & goes the same for equipping 4 armor skills for a Wiz as you suggested which is stupid for anyone who can't read because it says only 1 can be active at a time, unless that's been changed. By default it should just replace any other armor skill upon assigning a different armor skill to a slot due to this condition. But I guess you're given a choice of either becoming absolutely horrid or you're just experimenting and never looking back at that option again. Which makes no sense because Blizzard believes the skill & its runes should be unlocked by how they think not how you think. Contradictory. Its execution is bottomline poor in implementation and integration.


You sir, are unfathomable. Adieu?
Assumptions; You may as well call them imaginary statements.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/12/2013 6:21 AM PST
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^ You assume everyone knows wtf a hammerdin is and everyone is a veteran at the game at the beginning knowing wth a hammerdin even is if D2 was just released.


Look I do not have to tell everyone everything, that is unless I am talking to a two year old child. It is simple logic, anyone would want to make their build the strongest it can be. A hammerdin in D2 had skills you had to max in order to make the main attack Blessed Hammer as strong as it could be. Along with spending points into the support skills that backed up the build. So if two players choose the same build then logically their skill points would be the same. The only possible difference was the gear that they choose. Some might have chosen to get all BiS and the others might've went with some alternative choices.

So then I have to treat you all like little two year old children, where you just cannot grasp the simplest of concepts okay the here goes.

Sorry I must've been tired when I made the comment of 120 skill points actually it is 110.

D2 had 110 skill points to spend. D3 has six active skills to choose, six runes and three passives. Every character in both games gets the same thing. In D2 all characters get 110 total skill points. Here every character gets to choose six active skills, six runes and three passives. The only difference between one character and the other in both games are the choices that the player makes.

D2: Sorceress had the following skills open at level one; Frost Bolt, Frozen Armor, Charged Bolt, Fire Bolt and Warmth. From level 2 on you can spend your skill points into any one of those skills. Now at level 6 she gets; Frost Nova, Ice Blast, Static Field, Telekinesis, and Inferno. So at level six, you 2 sorceresses are the same they both have all of the above skills open to spend points into. They both have six points to spend, five from leveling and one from the Den of Evil quest completion. The only difference from one sorceress and the next at that level is where the player spends his/her points.

You could not choose in D2 what level a skill unlocked, that was pre chosen for you by Blizz North. You could not spend you level 2 skill point on a level 30 skill of Frozen Orb. You had no choice of when a skill opened. Just what you spent your skill points on was your only choice.

D3: Wizard gets Magic Missle at level one. Level 2 the wizard gets a new slot and Ray of Frost. Level 3 the wizard gets Shock Pulse. Level four the wizard gets another slot and the skill Frost Nova. Level five the wizard gets Arcane Orb, Level six the wizard gets his first rune in Magic Missle called Charged Blast. So just like D2 both the wizard and the sorceress is the same.

D2 did not let you unlock the skills that you wanted to unlock at the level you wanted to unlock. You only could spend your skill points on the skills that were pre chosen by Blizz North. So there is no difference there at all.

Please tell me how I can use WotB if it is not on my toolbar or mouse buttons? Show me where I am wrong and you have access to all active skills and runes for all active skills. All skills not on the toolbar or mouse wheel are like the skills you did not spend points on in D2 they are not available to you at all.

Thanks for dodging the question I posed to you, completely lets my point walk all over you in regards to skills & viability & difficulty of the game. Changing the subject and redirecting it to me just means either you don't know what it was like back then or you don't know what you're talking about.


Here I am basically saying that you are trying to tell me that there are no failed builds at all. Where you could literally throw darts on the board and make that build work in inferno. I say no you cannot. There are failed builds that will penalize you for choosing them. The only real difference is that you do not waste any time because of the respec option. You can fix your bad build by swapping skills to ones that would work.

Nice assumption again, I simply said Blizz should enlarge the skill pool. Where did I say it's going the wrong way? I said you're going the wrong way, which has nothing to do with Blizz unless you're an employee?
Quoted from page 1 since you seem to like to selectively read:


When people are saying that you cannot fail at all, gets me to think that the player really wants Blizz to fully support the optimal build in inferno. Where it it the only right way to play your class. Much like WoW where if you do not have a good raiding spec, gear, gem, using the right rotation, etc..., you are doing it wrong. You are like some that want players to run into billions of bad builds.

And by chance and default your two strongest defensives is like what everyone else went. That's not diversity if your most convincing and effective choices is almost the same among oh what was that pie chart months ago? like 87% of wizards made? Lol. the 13% were probably the ones who didn't even play past nightmare and saw the repetition, oh whoops getting off topic.
D3 doesn't have very many viable builds, why would anyone ever equip more than 1 primary skill? Lol that already eliminates a mass amount of options. Unless you're just trying to be a clown and weaksauce & useless, not to mention you can't even make any positive out of doing such things other than to look foolish.


But there are those that are like Jay that like the skills Slow Time and Teleport as defensive skills. So I could've chosen them instead and had a different wizard than what I have now.

I kept playing the game trying different skills and finally choose the ones that fit my play style of a wizard. Although I will be honest here I could even change my play style if I wanted to and switch to a melee build with totally different skills if I wish.

In time I will be putting together an Indiana Jones Barbarian build where I will be getting most of my dps power from my gear. Heck I might even try using a high thorns build for either a barbarian or a monk. There are a lot of choices that I can make.
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