Diablo® III

Criticising Diablo 3

01/12/2013 04:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Each build that a player chooses in this game plays differently than the next player. An Archon build plays different than a CM build, which plays differently than my kitting build. A perma WotB build plays differently than my shaker barbarian. So that is customization.


That is diversity. Stop equating diversity with customization. They are not the same.

It is not the way you are use to seeing with skill points and trees. But I say it is way better because all skills can be viable in endgame


LOL

where as in D2 the earlier tiered attacks had to suck at endgame or you would have the following problem.

In the lower levels you would be one shotting the enemies. As soon as you are approaching the endgame you are getting weaker as you level because it is taking longer to down the enemies with the earlier tiered skills because you are in the area where the skill was designed to take three hits or more to drop the mobs.


You are, of course, aware of synergies? That you can, for example, spend up to 80 points powering up Fireball, a Tier 1 spell? But that Fireball doesn't just one-shot enemies after the first point?
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01/12/2013 09:31 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
D2: Sorceress had the following skills open at level one; Frost Bolt, Frozen Armor, Charged Bolt, Fire Bolt and Warmth. From level 2 on you can spend your skill points into any one of those skills. Now at level 6 she gets; Frost Nova, Ice Blast, Static Field, Telekinesis, and Inferno. So at level six, you 2 sorceresses are the same they both have all of the above skills open to spend points into. They both have six points to spend, five from leveling and one from the Den of Evil quest completion. The only difference from one sorceress and the next at that level is where the player spends his/her points.


LOL that is not the same as what D3 does hahaha omg *giggle* talking to you i think it's just delusional now. D2 I can have like at least twice as many actives as D3 will ever have if i just drop 1 point into every skill and decide to play D2 like D3 lmao. Just because you drop a ton of skill points into one skill making it strong is already a huge difference compared to D3; the skill point investment makes D2 not a gear-riddled game with stickers for abilities, D3 you drop what into your skills? Nothing! Because Blizzard is in control of that duh. It's dumbed down past Guild Wars 1. GW1 the devs have control of the RANGE it's modified but it's not 1 static modifier that is never to be changed on your part lololol.

"The only difference from one sorceress and the next at that level is where the player spends his/her points and where they spent their points earlier" Fixed. <-- Defeats every purpose of whatever D3 is doing for diversity and differentiates a player from one to another. One may drop 20 points into this or that but they certainly wont' do it at the same level at any given time if they did that's pretty lucky on a coincidence, I remember playing with 5 friends we all went necros we all went raise skeleton but we didn't all learn it at the same level or same time or same skill point unlike D3.

Still missing the point?

Oh and don't forget a fire invested sorc now plays differently than an ice invested sorc <- customization as you said earlier. "My perma WotB won't play like a blah blah blah" Same situation here buddy, so wtf are you talking about? If that's the case then D2 blows D3 out of the water with diversity & different builds, just people in D3 are lazy to re-roll a character because there's no point lol, the fact that there's not even a template system to save your previous builds is already indication of that there aren't many.

" A perma WotB build plays differently than my shaker barbarian. So that is customization"
^ Lol that's D2 for anyone who invested 1 skill point that isn't the same as someone else. So that range is infinitely higher than D3 forever?

If that pisses you off in that you have to re-roll because you put a point into something you didn't want well that's what limited/quest-rewarded re-spec is for and 12 years of development to realize but didn't, or at least a small amount of it, but not infinitely re-spec, it's like what TL2 expanded upon and maybe the reason why it even won RPG of the year on like... MANY gaming sites where D3 went to disappointment.

01/12/2013 09:31 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Please tell me how I can use WotB if it is not on my toolbar or mouse buttons? Show me where I am wrong and you have access to all active skills and runes for all active skills. All skills not on the toolbar or mouse wheel are like the skills you did not spend points on in D2 they are not available to you at all.


You can't duh what a dumb rhetorical question unless you've discovered a way to play telepathically, you just assign it mid battle and wait 5-50 seconds depending on what difficulty you're playing on and it'll be ready to be used. In D3 there's a cooldown on it just because of a skill swap which is ridiculous because it indicates it is READY TO BE USED just that your character has the capacity of an idiot for intelligence and has to recall how to use it in a cooldown timer, far different from using learnt skills in D2(LEARNT SKILLS; DIFFERENT FROM UNLOCKED & UNLEARNED) that aren't on your toolbar but can be hotkeyed to be swapped into your bar immediately mid action to be USED. Jeez and I thought YOU played D2. holy moly, poor assumption on my end.

01/12/2013 09:31 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Here I am basically saying that you are trying to tell me that there are no failed builds at all. Where you could literally throw darts on the board and make that build work in inferno. I say no you cannot. There are failed builds that will penalize you for choosing them. The only real difference is that you do not waste any time because of the respec option. You can fix your bad build by swapping skills to ones that would work.

Once again you still have not answered my question and further assumed something else that I have not even said. I simply said there are MORE viable builds when difficulty decreases not ALL, but I mean if you do make it so easy where everything just dies to 1 hit then yeah it is ALL. LOL oh my god, is it that hard to comprehend? I said nothing about "no failed builds at all". Way to miss the point entirely. Here I'll even define viable for you:

vi·a·ble
/ˈvīəbəl/
Capable of working successfully; <-- derp.
Now if you'll stop contradicting yourself and think a little what happens if you lower difficulty to nothing?
I'll give you a moment to figure it out..............

....Oh wonderful everything is capable of working successfully :)

01/12/2013 09:31 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
But there are those that are like Jay that like the skills Slow Time and Teleport as defensive skills. So I could've chosen them instead and had a different wizard than what I have now.

and so can someone else and everyone else, there is no diversity if anyone can be each other between each toon in an instant. It's the same for guild wars just that the range of difference is millions and millions of times higher which fits the playerbase, this one fits the 4 player game, oh I see where they went with this. LOL nevermind thanks for the epiphany. Now I get why it's so limited.

01/12/2013 09:31 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
build where I will be getting most of my dps power from my gear.

LMAO where else woudl you get your DPS from HAHA zomg, please. You certainly don't tell your stats where to go nor how your equip shall roll stats.

Here's a ranking of complexity & diverse choices in terms of useable activities and attacks not just regular left click strikes.
Guild Wars 1 > D2 > D3
With the assumption that you grant D2 free re-spec, and even if not, it's still more diverse than D3 lol.

I'm no D2 fanatic but I'm not thick enough to say D3 has more diversity & customization than D2 does.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/12/2013 1:43 PM PST
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01/12/2013 12:10 PMPosted by Mith
Each build that a player chooses in this game plays differently than the next player. An Archon build plays different than a CM build, which plays differently than my kitting build. A perma WotB build plays differently than my shaker barbarian. So that is customization.


That is diversity. Stop equating diversity with customization. They are not the same.

It is not the way you are use to seeing with skill points and trees. But I say it is way better because all skills can be viable in endgame


LOL

where as in D2 the earlier tiered attacks had to suck at endgame or you would have the following problem.

In the lower levels you would be one shotting the enemies. As soon as you are approaching the endgame you are getting weaker as you level because it is taking longer to down the enemies with the earlier tiered skills because you are in the area where the skill was designed to take three hits or more to drop the mobs.


You are, of course, aware of synergies? That you can, for example, spend up to 80 points powering up Fireball, a Tier 1 spell? But that Fireball doesn't just one-shot enemies after the first point?


Oh and Fireball is a tier one skill, I think you need glasses Mith. Because it is a level 12 skill. Also synergies would not make Fire Bolt hit like a mac truck. No sorc in their right mind would use Fire Bolt as one of her attacks. Not when Fireball hits harder and is AoE. Fire Bolt would not outstrip Fireball for damage. The best you could get it would be 1,177 while Fireball could easily go for more than three times that total. So comparing the two level one Fire Bolt and level 12 Fireball you could clearly see the winner is level 12 Fireball.

Also
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01/12/2013 01:12 PMPosted by KradisZ
LOL that is not the same as what D3 does hahaha omg *giggle* talking to you i think it's just delusional now. D2 I can have like at least twice as many actives as D3 will ever have if i just drop 1 point into every skill and decide to play D2 like D3 lmao. Just because you drop a ton of skill points into one skill making it strong is already a huge difference compared to D3; the skill point investment makes D2 not a gear-riddled game with stickers for abilities, D3 you drop what into your skills? Nothing! Because Blizzard is in control of that duh. It's dumbed down past Guild Wars 1. GW1 the devs have control of the RANGE it's modified but it's not 1 static modifier that is never to be changed on your part lololol.


If Blizz North decided to make their game where gear is important like this game does. Then the same thing would happen there. Sure you would still have skill points and trees. But that would not mean anything because you would have to have really good gear to clear hell.

"The only difference from one sorceress and the next at that level is where the player spends his/her points and where they spent their points earlier" Fixed. <-- Defeats every purpose of whatever D3 is doing for diversity and differentiates a player from one to another. One may drop 20 points into this or that but they certainly wont' do it at the same level at any given time if they did that's pretty lucky on a coincidence, I remember playing with 5 friends we all went necros we all went raise skeleton but we didn't all learn it at the same level or same time or same skill point unlike D3.


Show me where two level 30 sorceresses had totally different skills unlocked. No they both had all skills unlocked and you were able to put your points into any of the skills that you wanted. Which is the same here, the only difference is that this game has no required skills. Where in order to get one skill you have to take a handful of other skills that you will never use.

I was merely pointing out that what is unlocked by levels 1, 6, 12, 18, 24, 30. Is the same for every class in the game. How and when you spend your points does not change the fact that all skills that unlock at level 12 for a sorceress are the same for all sorceresses. You did not unlock them by spending that skill point. They were level locked by Blizz North. There was no way you could spend a point into Revive earlier than level 30. That is what I am talking about not about how much difference there was as far as where the players chose to put their points.

Oh and don't forget a fire invested sorc now plays differently than an ice invested sorc <- customization as you said earlier. "My perma WotB won't play like a blah blah blah" Same situation here buddy, so wtf are you talking about? If that's the case then D2 blows D3 out of the water with diversity & different builds, just people in D3 are lazy to re-roll a character because there's no point lol, the fact that there's not even a template system to save your previous builds is already indication of that there aren't many.


I have no doubt that there are more viable builds that you know of, that is unless when you say viable you mean optimal and capable of clearing inferno on MP10. If that is the case then there are not a lot of builds that can do it without having godly gear and some will not be able to do it at all. But that is the way it should be.

If all of the builds that Blizz wants to be inferno viable where balanced around MP10 then MP would have to be nerfed to hell so even the weakest of the viable builds can clear it with good gear. So then for the strongest builds it becomes a joke and they could face roll it with gear that only cost around 500k gold.

" A perma WotB build plays differently than my shaker barbarian. So that is customization"
^ Lol that's D2 for anyone who invested 1 skill point that isn't the same as someone else. So that range is infinitely higher than D3 forever?


I can guarantee you that if we both were to make a necro and choose to make a bonemancer than your bonemancer would be identical to mine. You would max out all of the needed skills to make Bone Spear and Bone Spirit hit like a mac truck. So 100 of your 110 skill points is already tied up by those two skills and their synergies. Add in any required skills and you tie up another skill point.

Are you saying that at level 99 and with all 110 skills points your Bone Spear and Bone Spirit would only be 15. You would spend those 10 points elsewhere just to be different. If you did then you would be doing it wrong. You two main attack skills would be weak compared to mine since I choose to max them.

01/12/2013 01:12 PMPosted by KradisZ
and so can someone else and everyone else, there is no diversity if anyone can be each other between each toon in an instant. It's the same for guild wars just that the range of difference is millions and millions of times higher which fits the playerbase, this one fits the 4 player game, oh I see where they went with this. LOL nevermind thanks for the epiphany. Now I get why it's so limited.


So then it is the respec system you have problems with. So you feel that your build needs to be protected like it is an IP, it needs some form of copyright protection, huh. Just because respecs are there does not mean that you have to use them to copy anyone. That is unless you have no self control and have to copy the one build you see destroy the content in a blink of an eye.

LMAO where else woudl you get your DPS from HAHA zomg, please. You certainly don't tell your stats where to go nor how your equip shall roll stats.

Here's a ranking of complexity & diverse choices in terms of useable activities and attacks not just regular left click strikes.
Guild Wars 1 > D2 > D3
With the assumption that you grant D2 free re-spec, and even if not, it's still more diverse than D3 lol.

I'm no D2 fanatic but I'm not thick enough to say D3 has more diversity & customization than D2 does.


There are no self buff runes, or runes that could boost the dps of the skills we are using. Hmm, Bash has punish that can increase your damage by 24% for a short time. Then monks have Breath of Heaven with Blazing Wrath. I think you better think again before posting about that. I do not see how you could forget that simple fact.
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01/12/2013 03:06 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
If Blizz North decided to make their game where gear is important like this game does. Then the same thing would happen there. Sure you would still have skill points and trees. But that would not mean anything because you would have to have really good gear to clear hell.


don't know where you went off with that via my quote but okay. sure whatever? ever play GW1 on an elite dungeon on hard mode? I don't think so?

Show me where two level 30 sorceresses had totally different skills unlocked. No they both had all skills unlocked and you were able to put your points into any of the skills that you wanted. Which is the same here, the only difference is that this game has no required skills. Where in order to get one skill you have to take a handful of other skills that you will never use.

I was merely pointing out that what is unlocked by levels 1, 6, 12, 18, 24, 30. Is the same for every class in the game. How and when you spend your points does not change the fact that all skills that unlock at level 12 for a sorceress are the same for all sorceresses. You did not unlock them by spending that skill point. They were level locked by Blizz North. There was no way you could spend a point into Revive earlier than level 30. That is what I am talking about not about how much difference there was as far as where the players chose to put their points.


Let me reword this to you in d3 format so it sounds like you're arguing with yourself.
Show me two level 30 wizards that had totally different skills unlocked and useable. No they all had the same skills unlocked and had all them useable granted they're just assigned to a slot or swapped during mid battle and sitting there waiting for a CD timer to finish and aren't able to put any kind of skill points into any of the skills you wanted because they simply are unlocked for you and have no relevance further other than being assigned to a slot. Which is different from D2 where you had to input a skill point in order to make that unlocked skill active. This game has required skills such that you must level in order to unlock them since they're level locked by Blizzard South and you must follow that path without any deviation however much you want any kind of deviation along that path with no choice which one becomes active or unactive; they are all active. So to learn Magic Missile's "skill rune" which is really just another ability in disguise that is a tree down that path that is a singular path that doesn't branch into anything or unlock anything other than its rune and does so on its own. I'm not fooled. But you are.
There was no way you could use Explosion - Chain Reaction at level 30. That is what I'm talking about that there's no difference between any players in D3, where in D2 not just 1 skill unlocked at 30 but 3 trees of branches did. So D3 is still short-handed with 1 skill tree that just levels along as you level without you having to give a rats !@# and D2 you have 3 that you can pick from. Hmm..
EDIT: oh right and D2 is 12 year old system once again, and D3 did nothing to evolve upon it nor even take Guild Wars 1 as an example which utilizes a very similar system but dumbed down further than it, so 7 year old system didn't even evolve upon it.

Unlocking & being useable are 2 different things, active vs. unactive vs. passive <- 3 different things. So what if you unlocked them all at the same level at D2? Doesn't mean everyone can use it? Lol. D3 they just unlock as you level its the same thing, just with a choice cut off and static singular path, that's dumbing down if you ask me, it's not an added bonus when you have things automated. How often in life do you like to be automated and just be stuck as a cog in a wheel and run as told? If it's fairly often I have to say there's really no further reason to respond and talk to you. Seriously.

Whether it's an artificial illusion and a psychological distraction to allocate something manually vs. auto that's already the biggest difference. People who do magic tricks make sure it's not extremely obvious with sleight of hand otherwise there'd be no point.

01/12/2013 03:06 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
that is unless when you say viable you mean


Not going to dignify this useless nonsense past this statement after I defined viable already in the previous post. Idiot. Didn't know after defining something it still contained double entendres after being extremely clear and concise.

01/12/2013 03:06 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Are you saying that at level 99 and with all 110 skills points your Bone Spear and Bone Spirit would only be 15. You would spend those 10 points elsewhere just to be different. If you did then you would be doing it wrong. You two main attack skills would be weak compared to mine since I choose to max them.

So what if I did? What makes you suddenly seem to know what's right and what's wrong? Maybe you're doing it wrong spending those extra 10 points into bone spear/spirit regardless of if it does grant more damage. I could've just invested mine in curses and amp damage and did somethign different entirely, at least my skills are already different than yours just doing that small deviation even if I do end up slightly weaker big whoop. You also didn't account for the 70 other skill points that aren't allocated which could further deviate my build from yours which would highly be improbable to being identical to yours where in D3 it's highly probable with 2 out of 6 actives already being mimics of your wizard vs. mine.

If it works against the mobs it works, there's no right or wrong as i said earlier there's no such thing as a "right build". Stop going in loops please. I can literally say the same about my Wizard's CM build being far more efficient than yours, so you're on the weak-end of a stick? but you just said something of this along the lines of "oh that's my build I find it viable and efficient and not weak I can get thru inferno just fine" well then you sir, just refuted yourself because you're doing it wrong with your Wizard. *clap clap* + *golf clap*

01/12/2013 03:06 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
So then it is the respec system you have problems with.

Again with an asinine assumption after granting all the examples of Guild Wars respec & all the respec-for suggestions & feedback on it. You have problems comprehending. Not going to dignify another useless paragraph when you can't even understand. I have no problem with the re-spec system, keep going down that road if you want I'll tell you it brings you nowhere. I could care less if someone takes my build, which already happened. I play solo who cares?I'm not elaborating why again for the xth time in this thread why it sucks when I've said it plenty of times. Has nothing to do with someone taking my build if you missed the "I play solo" part.

01/12/2013 03:06 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
There are no self buff runes, or runes that could boost the dps of the skills we are using. Hmm, Bash has punish that can increase your damage by 24% for a short time. Then monks have Breath of Heaven with Blazing Wrath. I think you better think again before posting about that. I do not see how you could forget that simple fact.


LOL what a dumb fact, if your weapon is 0 damage and you increase it by 24% what do you get? 24 DPS or what? Please clarify this answer I really need to know now haha(I know what 0 + 24% is but I'm curious what you think it concludes to?) In every game DPS comes from mainly a weapon saying DPS from gear is like automatically a given by default.

This is a simple fact and I don't see how you can forget this before you even apply yours.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/13/2013 2:15 AM PST
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01/12/2013 02:33 PMPosted by ShadowAegis


That is diversity. Stop equating diversity with customization. They are not the same.



LOL



You are, of course, aware of synergies? That you can, for example, spend up to 80 points powering up Fireball, a Tier 1 spell? But that Fireball doesn't just one-shot enemies after the first point?


Oh and Fireball is a tier one skill, I think you need glasses Mith. Because it is a level 12 skill. Also synergies would not make Fire Bolt hit like a mac truck. No sorc in their right mind would use Fire Bolt as one of her attacks. Not when Fireball hits harder and is AoE. Fire Bolt would not outstrip Fireball for damage. The best you could get it would be 1,177 while Fireball could easily go for more than three times that total. So comparing the two level one Fire Bolt and level 12 Fireball you could clearly see the winner is level 12 Fireball.

Also


My bad. Meant Firebolt. To which everything applies. And yes, Firebolt was perfectly viable fully powered up to clear Hell, no problem. Because, in no small part, due to the availability of godly gear and how easy the game was.

And you know what? Let's talk about Fireball too, because why not? A level 12 skill synergized by the exact same skills as the level 1 skill pre-req (Firebolt). Want to talk about good game design? You can use Firebolt, powering it up, all the way until you get Fireball, then in maxing out Fireball your points in Firebolt are not wasted. At all. In fact, they are required to complete the build properly.

In fact, a Sorc who maxes either Firebolt or Fireball will have ended up maxing them both! HOLY AMAZEBALLS!
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"The only difference from one sorceress and the next at that level is where the player spends his/her points and where they spent their points earlier" Fixed. <-- Defeats every purpose of whatever D3 is doing for diversity and differentiates a player from one to another. One may drop 20 points into this or that but they certainly wont' do it at the same level at any given time if they did that's pretty lucky on a coincidence, I remember playing with 5 friends we all went necros we all went raise skeleton but we didn't all learn it at the same level or same time or same skill point unlike D3.


Show me where two level 30 sorceresses had totally different skills unlocked. No they both had all skills unlocked and you were able to put your points into any of the skills that you wanted. Which is the same here, the only difference is that this game has no required skills. Where in order to get one skill you have to take a handful of other skills that you will never use.


Any sorc that goes down one tree while another sorc goes down a different tree. You'd have an awfully hard time unlocking Frozen Orb at level 30 like that cold sorc did if you were going down the fire tree towards Hydra.

I suppose maxing a required skill in order to get synergistic benefits for your spell of choice doesn't count in your book, either.

I was merely pointing out that what is unlocked by levels 1, 6, 12, 18, 24, 30. Is the same for every class in the game. How and when you spend your points does not change the fact that all skills that unlock at level 12 for a sorceress are the same for all sorceresses. You did not unlock them by spending that skill point. They were level locked by Blizz North. There was no way you could spend a point into Revive earlier than level 30. That is what I am talking about not about how much difference there was as far as where the players chose to put their points.


Totally flawed argument. They were locked by both Blizz North and by the player choices. As above, even though Blizz North unlocked Frozen Orb at level 30 for you, if you hadn't invested in the pre-reqs in the Cold Tree because you were investing in the Fire or Lighting Tree up until that point, all those cold spells including Frozen Orb would remain locked. There's no remaining locked in Diablo III.
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While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III. We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization. They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.

We strongly feel that in general, players will know whether or not they like a particular skill or play style only after they’ve had a chance to try it out for themselves. And while there definitely is some intrigue and fun to permanently committing yourself to a particular character design, it’s not what we envision for Diablo III. We want players to be able to experiment and find a combination of skills and runes that they enjoy and that fit them the best. We also don’t believe that the current skill system would really benefit from a free allocation of stats, either. We think that players can achieve a sizable level of customization through runes, and that this system fits in much better with the overall design of the game.


I can understand why you choose auto allocation. But is this really the best solution?
You could have the option to buy/archieve resets or come up with some other great idear to allow self allocation without punishing mistakes.

You had years to work on D3 and way more resources than most other companies. I am sure you could have done better then auto allocation.
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I can understand why you choose auto allocation. But is this really the best solution?
You could have the option to buy/archieve resets or come up with some other great idear to allow self allocation without punishing mistakes.

You had years to work on D3 and way more resources than most other companies. I am sure you could have done better then auto allocation.


Completely agree. The skills system in D3 isn't awful per se, but it's extremely underwhelming considering the development time and series predecessor this game had.
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anybody who thinks that D3 provides any level of customization outside of gear truly has no idea what they are talking about. Dear lord, even your skill damage is based completely off of weapon dps. EVERY OTHER ARPG provides skill systems that are largely independent of character gear.

Without gear, every character of a given class is EXACTLY the same.
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01/08/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization.


Now this is just silly.
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Of course the majority of us appreciate positive changes to the game. It's just that for me personally, the way said changes are announced, that "aren't you thankful?!" quote comes to mind.

Take ID all. That was since BETA, and still is I suspect, the most requested change. And?
Of course of course, "changes don't happen overnight yadda yadda" and all that. How about some discussion then?

How about replying to the threads that ask nicely and politely and convincingly for ID all with something other than "thank you for your feedback" and "we have plans but can't discuss" and "we have no plans" jazz?

Then when you do have something to share, you get the feeling you're supposed to be licking Blizz's boots for those changes. Infernal Machine? You really going to cite Infernal Machine? A grind upon a grind. That's not content. That's eyewash IMO.

Paragon was probably the only thing that actually felt like a true change, and even then, one wonders why Blizz didn't see the need for it a mile away.

And no, don't insult us by quoting elective mode. Think of it this way. If you didn't have it, your game would be technically defective. Don't pin that on us and say we wanted, and you gave. You HAD to put it in anyway.

Don't get me wrong though. I read the blog, and like that at last, changes are forthcoming. But don't come on the forums and present yourself as the better person (or cat or yeti or drake) and us the moaning rabble. You have a tough job. Your numerous posts said so. I think most of us get it. Kindly not start with that stance everytime you take a veiled stab at the "D3 community".

And yes I'm thankful that at least someone is still talking to us.
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has it ever occurred to you that maybe YOU are the one who is not grasping their design decisions? she's right about stat points and skill trees ... they are archaic and ultimately pointless.


Nope, dumbed down game mechanics is archaic and pointless and only attracts casuals and noobs. Problem is these people play so little it does not drive a game. When a game has complexity it is way more fun. You don't need to be smart to play diablo seems to be the direction the devs want to take it. Currently you only need the IQ of a chimp to play diablo 3.

With 107 preview they did nothing to address this, I still won't be logging in to play. I don't know if I will even login to update. To me now diablo 3 currently is one of those, "why the 'F' did I buy this game". Now adding more BOA's seems more like a direction of WoW.
Edited by Vaudevillian#1153 on 1/13/2013 7:52 AM PST
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Oh and Fireball is a tier one skill, I think you need glasses Mith. Because it is a level 12 skill. Also synergies would not make Fire Bolt hit like a mac truck. No sorc in their right mind would use Fire Bolt as one of her attacks. Not when Fireball hits harder and is AoE. Fire Bolt would not outstrip Fireball for damage. The best you could get it would be 1,177 while Fireball could easily go for more than three times that total. So comparing the two level one Fire Bolt and level 12 Fireball you could clearly see the winner is level 12 Fireball.

Also


My bad. Meant Firebolt. To which everything applies. And yes, Firebolt was perfectly viable fully powered up to clear Hell, no problem. Because, in no small part, due to the availability of godly gear and how easy the game was.

And you know what? Let's talk about Fireball too, because why not? A level 12 skill synergized by the exact same skills as the level 1 skill pre-req (Firebolt). Want to talk about good game design? You can use Firebolt, powering it up, all the way until you get Fireball, then in maxing out Fireball your points in Firebolt are not wasted. At all. In fact, they are required to complete the build properly.

In fact, a Sorc who maxes either Firebolt or Fireball will have ended up maxing them both! HOLY AMAZEBALLS!


But would a sorceress use Fire Bolt all of the time. I would say no, because the damage of Fireball would outstrip Fire Bolt by more than 3 to 1. Clearly Fireball does way more damage for a fire sorc.

To make matters worse why not try telling me what would happen if you wanted a tri sorceress using only Charged Bolt, Ice Bolt, and Fire Bolt. I know you would not get very far trying that because they would be weak. That is the problem, also you said that you needed godly gear to make Fire Bolt hit hard enough to clear hell. So you needed to trade for duped gear or duped it yourself. Or maybe you got it from a botter, who knows. I know that godly gear just did not drop like candy in that game.

Again take D2 and let's say I hit the official forums. I could make the same argument here that no two sorceresses are different. Strip away the choices we make with skill points. Two level 30 sorceresses will have the same skill points (depending on if they did all of the skill reward quests in normal). And have access to all skills in all three trees. Meaning that at that point they could spend those points into any skill and tree that they wanted to.

The only real difference between D2 and D3 is the number of choices that is all. In D2 you had 110 choices to make at level 99 with all skill quests rewards completed. Here you have a total of 15 choices to make.
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1. If we could manually assign stat points, put points on skills, on runes, on passives permanently (let's say 5 or 10 pts max), then everybody would have custom characters and everybody would be happy.

For example putting points on Blizzard increase dealing % weapon dmg and putting points on Stark Winter rune increases covered area. You get the idea.

2. If primary stat's +dmg modifier (and only that, resistance/armor/dodge remaining same) would be smaller (let's say by 5 times), then we could use more divers gears, because as it is now, a piece of armor (or any item) without main stat on it is not usable/viable. Of course with the reduced value, monster health/resistance adjustment/reduction/scaling would be necessary too.

For example my Frostburn Gauntlets for my Wizard using Cold spells as it is now, it's nothing more than a trophy. With reduced +dmg modifier on main stats, i wouldn't mind using it, because 200 int would worth ~40 int (damage aspect only), so there would be alternate properties to choose from... Not forcing main stat.

3. Lower level legendaries seems very very hard to find, and even if find one it is most definitely isn't worth equipping.

Basicly the game, its core mechanic and the already bought gear would remain the same, no loss to anyone whatsoever, but the customization would increase drastically on lower and on higher levels too. This way both the D2 and D3 camp would be happy, i know i would. Hope my criticism is understandable, a positive one and mainly worth of implementation.
Edited by ssanyesz#2866 on 1/13/2013 9:44 AM PST
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Unlocking & being useable are 2 different things, active vs. unactive vs. passive <- 3 different things. So what if you unlocked them all at the same level at D2? Doesn't mean everyone can use it? Lol. D3 they just unlock as you level its the same thing, just with a choice cut off and static singular path, that's dumbing down if you ask me, it's not an added bonus when you have things automated. How often in life do you like to be automated and just be stuck as a cog in a wheel and run as told? If it's fairly often I have to say there's really no further reason to respond and talk to you. Seriously.

Whether it's an artificial illusion and a psychological distraction to allocate something manually vs. auto that's already the biggest difference. People who do magic tricks make sure it's not extremely obvious with sleight of hand otherwise there'd be no point.


Tell me how I can use an active skill that is not assigned to a slot here in D3, then you would have a point. Go ahead and tell me how I can use WotB on my barbarian without assigning it to a slot I will wait.

In D2 you cannot use a skill unless you spend a skill point into it (assigning it a slot).

You see you miss the whole point. The characters of the same class in D2 were the same when you strip away all of the choices we made with our skill points. They were identical as far as the number of skill points and skills they had access to. If there was any differences to the total skill points or access to skills from one player to the nest there would be hell on the forums. Just like the Wizards in D3 are the same.

The only real difference between the two games are the number of choices we make. In D2 you have 110 choices and here you have only 15.

So what if I did? What makes you suddenly seem to know what's right and what's wrong? Maybe you're doing it wrong spending those extra 10 points into bone spear/spirit regardless of if it does grant more damage. I could've just invested mine in curses and amp damage and did somethign different entirely, at least my skills are already different than yours just doing that small deviation even if I do end up slightly weaker big whoop. You also didn't account for the 70 other skill points that aren't allocated which could further deviate my build from yours which would highly be improbable to being identical to yours where in D3 it's highly probable with 2 out of 6 actives already being mimics of your wizard vs. mine.

If it works against the mobs it works, there's no right or wrong as i said earlier there's no such thing as a "right build". Stop going in loops please. I can literally say the same about my Wizard's CM build being far more efficient than yours, so you're on the weak-end of a stick? but you just said something of this along the lines of "oh that's my build I find it viable and efficient and not weak I can get thru inferno just fine" well then you sir, just refuted yourself because you're doing it wrong with your Wizard. *clap clap* + *golf clap*


So you would spend them differently just to be different, fine. But you would be doing it wrong in D2. In fact I will go out on a limb and say that you either did not play D2 or did not play a necro. Because if you did then you would know that pumping points into amp damage would only increase it's time not it's damage. It along with all of the other curses were excellent one point wonders. With all of the +skill items your amp damage had more than enough time in hell. Same with all of the other one point wonders that I mentioned in that bonemancer build. You would have a gimped bonemancer if you did that.

LOL what a dumb fact, if your weapon is 0 damage and you increase it by 24% what do you get? 24 DPS or what? Please clarify this answer I really need to know now haha(I know what 0 + 24% is but I'm curious what you think it concludes to?) In every game DPS comes from mainly a weapon saying DPS from gear is like automatically a given by default.

This is a simple fact and I don't see how you can forget this before you even apply yours.


I see you miss the point, what I am saying is that I would compensate any loss of self damage buffs by increasing the damage that the gear is giving me. What is so hard about that. Tell me how many players would decide to have a finder build. A build that increases the chances of an extra piece of loot to drop. When they know that they will be giving up a damage bonus coming from their self buffs. I do not think that a lot of players would do that.

But they might take my approach and get gear that compensates the amount of damage that they are doing when fully buffed.
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90 Goblin Death Knight
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pointless? whats the point of giving my Wd dex and str automatically when I level? I dont mind if they auto allocate, but why the hell would you give me stats that dont directly improve my character.
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TLDR: People in the D3 community have a bunch of good ideas to change the game that will never, ever be implemented, not because they won't make the game fun, but because someone at Blizzard thinks it's "fine" the way it is. It's not fine, the whole game is an annoying waste of time.

I understand how people could be driven to bot D3...how could you not?
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01/08/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Vaeflare
While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III. We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization. They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice


It would add customization! if we would have manual stats distribution - then we will have 3+ different builds: tanks - for whom put all stats into Vita, glass cannons - for whom put all stats into main stat, combo - specific for PvP. you can add "Respec" function or quest reward for whom, who mistaken in stats distribution - it works in D2 and it adds much diversity and ARPG charm.
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