Diablo® III

Criticising Diablo 3

01/13/2013 09:50 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
Tell me how I can use an active skill that is not assigned to a slot here in D3, then you would have a point. Go ahead and tell me how I can use WotB on my barbarian without assigning it to a slot I will wait.


Are you really that thick? In D2 you can just hotkey a skill not on your bar to auto swap it into a rightclick or left click. So stupid, D3 you can't? Or well you can just enjoy that CD timer i've mentioned countless times that you seem to like to ignore since you don't want to accept that fact because it is, I've played D3 switching my skills mid battle but I guess you never have? So what the hell are you trying to prove here other than that D3 has lost a feature or gained an annoyance? I never said anything about D3 being able to use an active skill that is not assigned to a slot idiot. Learn to read please.

01/13/2013 09:50 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
The characters of the same class in D2 were the same when you strip away all of the choices we made with our skill points.

Yeah but they didn't strip it all away so stop living in a fantasy bubble, because that's what D3 did. Just Lol.

01/13/2013 09:50 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
So you would spend them differently just to be different, fine. But you would be doing it wrong in D2.

Here i'll stay on topic since you like to digress so much,

Sorry you're doing it wrong in D3 your paragon auto stats where that 200 extra not going into main stat or vit are completely useless so you're on the short-end of the stick. /argument.
You have a gimped character regardless of what you do. Same analogy just that you don't have any given choice in D3. Twist this however you want and ignore it or subject switch it all you'd like it's the same concept and applies to exactly what you just said but fail to realize. One is auto(d3 duh) and the other is manual (d2 duh).

You really going to gimp your wizard with 100 stats into STR and 100 stats into DEX over both of those into 200 INT? Let's do a short analysis shall we? 100 str = +100 armor, which is like a mitigation of maybe ~1%, or 100 dex which is a puny bit of dodge over 200% damage? Hmm...??? Sorry but You're just gimping your character now, oh what you mean you did that on purpose right? Get the point?
Please go read page 1 post #1 and read the part about meaningful stats and applies to skills as well before you try to make any sense of what you say. If you can't even do that please shut it and stop wasting thread space for pointless dribble going in circles unless you're just trolling then w/e.

01/13/2013 09:50 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
I see you miss the point, what I am saying is that I would compensate any loss of self damage buffs by increasing the damage that the gear is giving me.


by increasing the damage that the gear is giving me.


You never did answer what 0+24% is you scared or something? <-- what did you compensate here if you calculate the result of the given values? Way to add my point into your own point and trying to make it seem like you have something going on there?
Here I'll even add my point again just to make sure you know you just said the same thing as I did when you're trying to make your point valid after disregarding mine when you actually need mine first to have yours even considered.

LOL what a dumb fact, if your weapon is 0 damage and you increase it by 24% what do you get? 24 DPS or what? Please clarify this answer I really need to know now haha(I know what 0 + 24% is but I'm curious what you think it concludes to?) In every game DPS comes from mainly a weapon saying DPS from gear is like automatically a given by default.

This is a simple fact and I don't see how you can forget this before you even apply yours.


Tell me what did you do at the end there by saying increasing the excuse me what again? is giving you? I underlined it in your quote to make it obvious since you are clearly oblivious.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/13/2013 1:29 PM PST
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To make matters worse why not try telling me what would happen if you wanted a tri sorceress using only Charged Bolt, Ice Bolt, and Fire Bolt. I know you would not get very far trying that because they would be weak.


Again, as I said before, that would be stupid. And I'm still not here to prove to stupid that stupid isn't stupid.

You can't be good at everything at the same time. That's terrible game design and defeats the purpose of having three split trees, is inconsistent with the established system of earning a limited amout of points and making meaningful choices as to where to spend those points, and eliminates diversity alltogether.
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01/13/2013 09:50 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
You see you miss the whole point. The characters of the same class in D2 were the same when you strip away all of the choices we made with our skill points.


Oh I see. So you're right but only when we ignore exactly what we're talking about.
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I dont get it, why cant Blizzard just see that a BIG part of the problem is itemization. I play on and off maybe once every couple weeks just to see if anything has changed. It just gets sooo boring killing mobs and getting nothing in return. Trash then more trash....ohh and more trash. Nothing that improves my character. Nothing!!! They can try to make all the diverse builds they want but if you are running aroung killing everthing and getting nothing. What is the point!!!! Just my opinion
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Are you really that thick? In D2 you can just hotkey a skill not on your bar to auto swap it into a rightclick or left click. So stupid, D3 you can't? Or well you can just enjoy that CD timer i've mentioned countless times that you seem to like to ignore since you don't want to accept that fact because it is, I've played D3 switching my skills mid battle but I guess you never have? So what the hell are you trying to prove here other than that D3 has lost a feature or gained an annoyance? I never said anything about D3 being able to use an active skill that is not assigned to a slot idiot. Learn to read please.


Look I will make it real simple, switching skills in this game is switching your choices. If D2 had infinite free respecs then switching skills in this game. Would be like reallocating your skill points in D2. Now you know you cannot use a skill in D2 unless you spend points into it or you get it from an item. Which is like this game where you cannot use a skill unless it is assigned to one of your slots. Try using Revive for a necro without any points into it or any skill granting items that would give you the skill.

So what I am really saying is real simple my dear Watson. Strip off the choices we make in D2, which is where and when we spend our skill points. Then you would have two characters of the same class and level. Both of them would have the same skill points. Only difference here would be what skill reward quests that may or may not have been done, which would be small. So both of them would have the same skill points and access to the same skills on the same skill trees.

Can I get you to agree with me on one point since it is so hard for you to grasp that all characters of the same class regardless of the choices you make when you build them. All of them at level 99 and after doing all of the skill point quests will have 110 skill points. Why you cannot separate your personal skill choices and the skill choices that another player might or might not use.

Will you at least agree that in D2 you had 110 choices to make as far as skills are concerned. And in this game you only have 15 choices to make.

I am speaking in general terms, not specific choices.

01/13/2013 11:40 AMPosted by KradisZ
Yeah but they didn't strip it all away so stop living in a fantasy bubble, because that's what D3 did. Just Lol.


You just do not want to concede to the fact that in D2 you had 110 skill choices to make and here you have 15.

I know why you do not want to say that I am right about the fact that all characters in D2 regardless of how they spend their points are the same. They get the same number of skill points. Otherwise I would have to say that the game was totally random with skill points. You could not possibly plan out a build because sometimes you would only get 50 skill points for a level 99 completing hell difficulty and sometime it could go as high as 500. Now if this is the case then I wonder what game I was playing.

I get it though you do not like being wrong, you would not possibly say anything that I have to say is right as far as two characters of the same class being identical regardless of how the player spends their skill points. Look they have to be identical or there would be hell to pay.

Just think if Blizz North made unlocking of skills totally random. I could start putting points into Frozen Orb at level 2 and you had to wait until level 30. Also let's say I got 110 skill points and you only got 55. There forums would light up and Blizz North would have hell to pay for such a silly design.

You never did answer what 0+24% is you scared or something? <-- what did you compensate here if you calculate the result of the given values? Way to add my point into your own point and trying to make it seem like you have something going on there?
Here I'll even add my point again just to make sure you know you just said the same thing as I did when you're trying to make your point valid after disregarding mine when you actually need mine first to have yours even considered.


Hey everyone you heard it from the D3 guru all self buffs are crap. Stop using them entirely. Don't even bother using runes that buff the power of your skills. Do you really want to go there, hmm. So that would mean you would have to change your DH build and remove SS, Steady Aim and replace the rune in Hungering Arrow to one instead of Devouring Arrow.

That 24% btw is the same as the monk's Mantra of Conviction so they should not use it. Also monks should not use Blazing Wrath.

Look I will make this point real simple Watson, let's say you have a character that has 100k dps unbuffed and fully buffed with self buffs it goes as high as 125k. Also let's say there are enough skills in that class that I can turn them into an Indiana Jones build. But would lose the 25k dps for doing so. Now I can go to the gold AH and find gear that would give me back that extra 25k dps and then I am still doing the same damage as I was before with the self buffs.
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^ Dumb paraphrasing and twisting of words, didn't even say half the things you're claiming. This isn't even about being right or wrong, it's just trying to figure out what the heck you're even trying to get at.

EDIT: You're also throwing hypothetic theories of imagine this imagine that, how about just take the reality of what it is without stripping anything off of either game and make the comparison so you have a legitamate argument between the 2 games so you're consistent and not confusing about anything you're talking about?

Just look @ that last paragraph, I never said all self buffs are crap. Lol way to go miles away from the subject at hand; gear giving damage. You even said in the previous post there are no self buff runes. Lol dude, seriously where are you going with anything? I was talking about gear giving dps now you're just talking about dps, where'd the mention of gear go?

PS, this thread isn't about d2 and a 12 year old system you're the one who seems so inclined to use it as an example when I've used countless different ones that you can't seem to even comment on like Guild Wars for one, and Ragnarok on the front page and many others like Dark Souls or Demon's Souls and Torchlight2 and old D2 barely but you seem drivenly attached to it. This is about D3.

110 Choices vs. 15 choicse <- by default D2 wins with more freedom of choice already. For the xth time D3 is LIMITED. Nevermind the re-spec anymore you've already agreed with me whether or not I wanted you to. Wtf? Like I said going in circles.

What's 110 factorial vs. 15 factorial? <- that's how many different paths you have to grow your character from one game vs. the other. I'll tell you the difference is huge.

I see you've also dropped the point about bone spear/spirit vs. your auto stats in D3 so what? You realize something now or you have something further offtopic to say about it?
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/13/2013 2:13 PM PST
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01/13/2013 01:46 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Will you at least agree that in D2 you had 110 choices to make as far as skills are concerned. And in this game you only have 15 choices to make.


110 meaningful choices vs 15 meaningless choices.

Hmmmmmmm.
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After i read this post i decide. uninstall and bb. I will w8 for any good core changes...

and at the end my question is:

why dev team stop gem development at 4 (four) gems ONLY?
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01/13/2013 02:01 PMPosted by Mith
Will you at least agree that in D2 you had 110 choices to make as far as skills are concerned. And in this game you only have 15 choices to make.


110 meaningful choices vs 15 meaningless choices.

Hmmmmmmm.


Those 15 are meaningful to me because I made them. Even though the builds that I use are far from being optimal are efficient.
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EDIT: You're also throwing hypothetic theories of imagine this imagine that, how about just take the reality of what it is without stripping anything off of either game and make the comparison so you have a legitamate argument between the 2 games so you're consistent and not confusing about anything you're talking about?

Just look @ that last paragraph, I never said all self buffs are crap. Lol way to go miles away from the subject at hand; gear giving damage. You even said in the previous post there are no self buff runes. Lol dude, seriously where are you going with anything? I was talking about gear giving dps now you're just talking about dps, where'd the mention of gear go?


I was just showing that if I wanted to I could've actually gone to the D2 forums and complain to Blizz North years ago about two sorceresses being the same I could've said why can't I choose when I unlock Blizzard or Frozen Orb.

It would be the same argument here with a player that complains about two wizards being the same.

Here are the facts and you better not deny them this time.

D2 you had 110 skill points to spend on your skills. Also you had access to all skills by level 30. The only real difference between one character and the next was. Where each player spent their skill points and when, woopty doo big difference. You just want to focus on where the players spent their points. You just want to focus on the choices, instead of seeing what I see. Two sorceresses that are the same level that are identical to each other as far as the skill points they have to spend and the skills they have access to.

Here in D3 it is the same way, at level 60 you get all skills and runes unlocked. But you can only choose 6 active skills, 6 runes and 3 passive skills. It is those 15 choices that make each character different sure they can change their choices at the drop of a hat.

But D2 could've added a respec potion like the mod Median XL did. They have a special elixir that can give you a respec.

Also you mention Guild Wars, you do realize that you only have attribute points to spend. You have no skill points to spend making your skills more powerful, right? Also you can only choose seven non elite skills and one elite skill. So there are only two more skills to use. Also in town you can respec as much as you like. IIRC there are no cool downs on respec. So in an instant you could be just like the warrior next to you as long as you have the same skills.

By that token then Guild Wars did not have any customization, no meaningful choices. Guild Wars had no permanent choices where you had consequences for making bad choices. Because all you had to do to fix your character was to go to town and change your skills.

In reality the D3 team copied Arenanet's Guild Wars skill system. The only real difference is that your choices are different.

I was saying that if I got an extra 25k or more dps from self buffs. But decided to use other skills and runes that could increase the amount of items that I could get. Then I could get gear that would compensate me for my lose of dps from self buffs. When I said that I mentioned gear btw. I was talking about getting compensated by getting better gear that gave me more dps. So I would have the same dps as I would with self buffs.
Edited by ShadowAegis#1537 on 1/13/2013 6:39 PM PST
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01/13/2013 02:00 PMPosted by KradisZ
I see you've also dropped the point about bone spear/spirit vs. your auto stats in D3 so what? You realize something now or you have something further offtopic to say about it?


That is real simple, I dropped it because I already said enough about it. I know that anyone that would want both spear/spirit because they are building a bonemancer. They would not dare to spend less than the max amount of skill points. So 100 skill points is already spoken for. Leaving only 10 skill points. Three for the Golem, Golem Mastery and Summon Resist. Then one for Corpse Explosion that is needed to open up Bone Spear. I know that Corpse Explosion is useful as well. So that leaves six skill points to spend into the curse tree for useful curses.
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EDIT: You're also throwing hypothetic theories of imagine this imagine that, how about just take the reality of what it is without stripping anything off of either game and make the comparison so you have a legitamate argument between the 2 games so you're consistent and not confusing about anything you're talking about?

Just look @ that last paragraph, I never said all self buffs are crap. Lol way to go miles away from the subject at hand; gear giving damage. You even said in the previous post there are no self buff runes. Lol dude, seriously where are you going with anything? I was talking about gear giving dps now you're just talking about dps, where'd the mention of gear go?


I was just showing that if I wanted to I could've actually gone to the D2 forums and complain to Blizz North years ago about two sorceresses being the same I could've said why can't I choose when I unlock Blizzard or Frozen Orb.

It would be the same argument here with a player that complains about two wizards being the same.

Here are the facts and you better not deny them this time.

D2 you had 110 skill points to spend on your skills. Also you had access to all skills by level 30. The only real difference between one character and the next was. Where each player spent their skill points and when, woopty doo big difference. You just want to focus on where the players spent their points. You just want to focus on the choices, instead of seeing what I see. Two sorceresses that are the same level that are identical to each other as far as the skill points they have to spend and the skills they have access to.

Here in D3 it is the same way, at level 60 you get all skills and runes unlocked. But you can only choose 6 active skills, 6 runes and 3 passive skills. It is those 15 choices that make each character different sure they can change their choices at the drop of a hat.

But D2 could've added a respec potion like the mod Median XL did. They have a special elixir that can give you a respec.

Also you mention Guild Wars, you do realize that you only have attribute points to spend. You have no skill points to spend making your skills more powerful, right? Also you can only choose seven non elite skills and one elite skill. So there are only two more skills to use. Also in town you can respec as much as you like. IIRC there are no cool downs on respec. So in an instant you could be just like the warrior next to you as long as you have the same skills.

By that token then Guild Wars did not have any customization, no meaningful choices. Guild Wars had no permanent choices where you had consequences for making bad choices. Because all you had to do to fix your character was to go to town and change your skills.

In reality the D3 team copied Arenanet's Guild Wars skill system. The only real difference is that your choices are different.

I was saying that if I got an extra 25k or more dps from self buffs. But decided to use other skills and runes that could increase the amount of items that I could get. Then I could get gear that would compensate me for my lose of dps from self buffs. When I said that I mentioned gear btw. I was talking about getting compensated by getting better gear that gave me more dps. So I would have the same dps as I would with self buffs.


LOL.

/facepalm.
Not sure what facts I've denied apart from trying to figure out what you've been trying to say all this time and this is what you conclude with. lmao.
Here's an image for comedic relief:
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/diablo-vs-rock.jpg
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/13/2013 10:13 PM PST
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I see you've also dropped the point about bone spear/spirit vs. your auto stats in D3 so what? You realize something now or you have something further offtopic to say about it?


That is real simple, I dropped it because I already said enough about it. I know that anyone that would want both spear/spirit because they are building a bonemancer. They would not dare to spend less than the max amount of skill points. So 100 skill points is already spoken for. Leaving only 10 skill points. Three for the Golem, Golem Mastery and Summon Resist. Then one for Corpse Explosion that is needed to open up Bone Spear. I know that Corpse Explosion is useful as well. So that leaves six skill points to spend into the curse tree for useful curses.


What has any of that got to do with D3 or the point I made about paragon stats levelling which is exactly the same thign except you don't manually allocate it and gimping your character by default?

01/13/2013 06:29 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
You just want to focus on the choices, instead of seeing what I see


That's all a player has in a given game, unless you're insinuating you do back-end hacking to give yourself more choices or you're suddenly imposing that you develop for the game? I see what you see, it makes no coherent sense, I'm not going to absolve a whole aspect on a system just to make it fit your perspective may as well not even talk about if it you're not going to take every detail of it, makes no sense. Before you make anotehr stupid assumption I've already agreed with Blizzard's vision towards D3 as Vaeflare has confirmed it. Doesn't mean I'll like it but doesn't mean I'm against it anymore either.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/13/2013 10:29 PM PST
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01/08/2013 04:52 PMPosted by Vaeflare
In terms of free additional content, we’d love to add more events similar to Infernal Machine to the Diablo universe, but whatever we add needs to fit within the scope of the game and needs to be weighed against other design costs. D3 isn’t an MMO, so it’s not going to receive regular content additions like an MMO (in terms of frequency and reward structures), but we’re definitely keeping our options open for the future, so don’t hesitate to let us know what interests you!


i dont see why diablo 3 cant receive regular content additions, guild wars 2 does this and they are not a subscription based mmo. also blizzard you have made more then enough money off all your games on sales alone and with wow subscription ranking in tons of money every month, money should not be an issue. your either being way to greedy or lazy either way i am disappointed what this company has become.
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Why are people even arguing here? If you like the game, just play on. If not, just move on. Simple.

It's just a game. No matter what changes, bound to have groups who love or hate it. Not a big deal.
Edited by Jacrabby#6888 on 1/14/2013 2:40 AM PST
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The reason why there is no customization as in skill points etc. is in my eyes only that this game is supposed to be a dumbed down casual ARPG.

You are supposed to buy this game, play it a while and then get back into your WOW subscription, like half of my friendslist did.

The D3 add-on will add some features people are begging for, so everybodys gonna buy it just to get bored with it again after 2-3 months. And you bet that this is exactly when the next WOW add-on or even Titan will hit the stores.

Wild speculation: Titan will be somehow based on the Diablo franchise, so people will get all the customization they ask for.

This whole things is a very transparent business plan, and this is exactly why users feel abused.

The worst to it is not the business plan itself, we all need to make money. It´s those totally empty statements regarding game development. Every sentence starting with "we felt it blabla" is just an insult to the intelligence of every user and never holds any content or value.

You guys will never get your sh1t together and get this game right, because your Ego will never let you admit how hard you actually failed on the original concept.

edit: This is by the way not directed towards any Customer service representatives, i know what it´s like being tied to company guidelines on user communication. But knowing that is also exactly what keeps me from ever taking your statements serious, since it´s just random corporate speek
Edited by error37#2595 on 1/14/2013 4:25 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
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Yet another thread successfully butchered by ShadowAegis
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I agree on so much of what you've said.
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01/13/2013 10:07 PMPosted by KradisZ
What has any of that got to do with D3 or the point I made about paragon stats levelling which is exactly the same thign except you don't manually allocate it and gimping your character by default?


You are the one asking why I dropped the point about bone spear and bone spirit. So I see you will not listen to reason. You only want me to tickle your ear and say what you want me to say. Sorry I do not do things like that.

Also I know that the majority of players in a manual stat system here would either dump all into main attack, vitality or split them between the two. Personally I would take the stat points and divide by 5 for all sixty levels and 100 paragon levels. Times the results by three and add that into the main stat then dump the rest into Vit. 60 levels times 2 equals 120 then add in the 200 points from paragon levels. I have 320. That would mean that the main stat would get 192 points and Vit would get 128. Because that is the way the devs are auto assigning the 5 out of the seven stat points per level.
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