Diablo® III

Criticising Diablo 3

2 posts in the same thread from a CM... they are listening to this one for sure.

Hope they saw the end of the OP's post, the one about the azmodan siege thing. That is a fantastic idea. Certainly gives more meaning to the "end game".
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01/08/2013 05:06 PMPosted by Epic
this scrub must had difficulty with makin a build ^^ hahahaha or didnt play d2


Wth? I beat inferno in July. I quit until 1.05 and didn't gear up until 1.06 where I can do MP5 pretty quick. I main a Monk. There are literally only 3 builds to choose from. Overawe spam became boring...I hate 2 handers and TR's animation...so what does that leave me with? Backlash and Resolve.

I didn't troll anyone so why troll me. Seriously the problem with most people here. They troll everyone else who doesn't meet or beat their epeen. And they praise Blizzard even if they keep everyone in the dark and pretty much dropped the ball with this franchise.

We need an expansion to make this game better than D2? Uhm...it should have owned D2 out of the gate.
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Couldn't we add more weapons into the game? Weapons with specific skill bonuses? Say that there are 20 top end legendaries, increase that number to 50 and and you have a really creative aspect to Diablo 3.

Let the damage of the skills range anywhere from 10-20 percent damage. Maybe have penalties on them kind of like the andys helm. Takes 20 percent more fire damage or cold damge.

The more items there are the more diverse the game will be. As long as they are equally and potentially great.
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RIP

Let this game die
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While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III. We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization. They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.

We strongly feel that in general, players will know whether or not they like a particular skill or play style only after they’ve had a chance to try it out for themselves. And while there definitely is some intrigue and fun to permanently committing yourself to a particular character design, it’s not what we envision for Diablo III. We want players to be able to experiment and find a combination of skills and runes that they enjoy and that fit them the best. We also don’t believe that the current skill system would really benefit from a free allocation of stats, either. We think that players can achieve a sizable level of customization through runes, and that this system fits in much better with the overall design of the game.


I predicted a PR type response from you hitting on one of these threads today and here it is. I mean no disrespect when I say that. Although I (we) appreciate your response it's the same old same old that gets us always in a constant argument and always results in this loop between us and you CM's and devs.

Please recognize that your current customization skill is heavily flawed so we can move on from this endless back and forth argument about it. Okay? Leaving D2 completely out of the picture let's focus on D3 here I'll explain further:

I am a CM/WW wizard which is Critical Mass with Wicked Wind rune from Energy Twister, I'm sure you're familiar. That means I use Energy Twister as my main skill and everything I do relies on it's tick rates. I am in melee range off from the traditional ranged wizard right? Okay so I emphasis on mitigation rather than offensive like the ranged or versions of ranged. Okay cool, is that customization though? No, that's simply how to preform my build and stacking defense and other stats like Crit Chance and Attacks per second instead of straight main stat or damage adding.

Okay so to further customize and differentiate myself from other wizards with similar builds I'd want to specialize in taking advantage of Energy Twister skill to make it more effective. That option you've given me but the problem is it comes at the expense of too much offense in most situations and/or way too rare for a top end perspective:

Example:

Chantado's Will which is the end game top legendary item for my build as a CM/WW wizard because it offers maximum attack speed vs anything else. You can get even more attack speed (like the wand I have) or you can get a socket with CD which gives vastly more dps OR you can specialize in Energy Twister. Those are 3 options, but you can only choose 1 not 2 say for an echoing fury. That's a huge flaw and a huge sacrifice. Not only is Energy Twister a rare skill proc unlike most legendary with skill procs, but it takes away my damage options. So by customizing your skill you're essentially becoming less effective and doing less damage.

To me this doesn't make sense and is the case for pretty much all instances of any customization through skills that D3 offers. You're in a much better position by skipping any kind of customization and just going all out damage. It's not only easier to get because it's not as rare it also is more efficient. That's the biggest problem with customization in D3, it's FAR FAR too limiting.
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70 Tauren Paladin
13565
Posts: 2,856
01/08/2013 05:15 PMPosted by DeMasked
The Diablo III end-game is fundamentally for people who enjoy making their character feel more powerful, investing time into slaughtering hordes of enemies, and hunting for loot.


So three things:

Ego.

Time Waster.

Looking for loot which means... AH/RMAH and not the game (in most cases).

I would've thought that the evolution on the Diablo franchise might have come up with some other end game ideas... since this is Blizzard's idea on endgame it's no wonder I rarely play anymore.


In a non-insulting way, this too.

You guys really have to wake up and realize that farming for ever-diminishing chances of upgrades is not end-game. Zero reason to reroll EVER is not end-game. AH tycooning is NOT END-GAME.
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Community Manager
Posts: 1,443
01/08/2013 04:54 PMPosted by atom428
Regarding the death timer: The incrementing death timer is actually being removed in 1.0.7.


could we please pick a direction and stick with it? sorry to complain but i had to get it out.


We feel that as the game has evolved and stands now, there are sufficient penalties associated with character death, so the incrementing death timer it doesn’t feel necessary anymore.
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01/08/2013 05:29 PMPosted by Vaeflare


could we please pick a direction and stick with it? sorry to complain but i had to get it out.


We feel that as the game has evolved and stands now, there are sufficient penalties associated with character death, so the incrementing death timer it doesn’t feel necessary anymore.


You guys are confusing can you explain were this game might be going I want to stick around but I need some information.
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Life is too short to spend it complaining about everything, Truth is life is full of disappointment so you better get use to it. The perfect phrase to be said here is "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." I learned that in the first grade along with my manners witch most of you seem to lack. I have enjoyed Diablo 1,2 and 3 and let me say it has come a long way and id like to thank the Blizzard team for putting so much time and effort into making this game great. You can't make everyone happy. New flash people, its not a perfect world if you have not noticed, nothing is perfect. Far from it, so live a little and enjoy what you have and stop complaining stupid things that really don't matter to most adult Diablo fans. And grow up, I really hope the people posting these dumb threads are kids and not grown men cause if so that would truly be sad if you ask me.
Edited by MiSeRy#1809 on 1/8/2013 5:41 PM PST
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We feel... We feel... We feel... That's all I ever hear from blues. Well guess what, we don't "feel" what you "feel". How hard is that to understand?
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A death timer was never necessary. Also while we're on the subject. Get some sort of 1 or 2 sec invulnerability after using a party members portal. One (Just ONE) of the most frustrating things about this game is...example...

You're selling items...your party goes back while you're still identifying each and every item 1 by 1. Your party member says elite. You go back maybe a minute or so after. You get owned by an illusionist who has 50 arcane beams right outside where you port.

It's annoying and I don't understand how this could have been overlooked.
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01/08/2013 05:34 PMPosted by MikeHoncho
We feel... We feel... We feel... That's all I ever hear from blues. Well guess what, we don't "feel" what you "feel". How hard is that to understand?


I disagree with them (pretty sure almost everyone does) with their customization stance however their 'feeling' is the same as us when it comes to death timers. It just doesn't fit or belong in the game.
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Thanks for taking the time to craft such a constructive and well-intentioned thread. We really do appreciate the passion of Diablo III players like yourself, and you have some very fair points and feedback, so /highfive for that!

And how an old game had systems inspired already to lead into multiple diversities and that game is full of skill trees and is immensively popular, so those telling me skill trees & stat points is outdated, tell that to a 12 year old game still surviving and is massively going on updates still. It's only outdated if your skill trees/stats don't actually offer any equality between power & variation.


While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III. We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization. They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.

We strongly feel that in general, players will know whether or not they like a particular skill or play style only after they’ve had a chance to try it out for themselves. And while there definitely is some intrigue and fun to permanently committing yourself to a particular character design, it’s not what we envision for Diablo III. We want players to be able to experiment and find a combination of skills and runes that they enjoy and that fit them the best. We also don’t believe that the current skill system would really benefit from a free allocation of stats, either. We think that players can achieve a sizable level of customization through runes, and that this system fits in much better with the overall design of the game.

You speak of rares or magics and you'll just get laughed at, all everyone talks about is Legendary this that, mempo skorn, manticore blah blah, I haven't played and read enough to know that's all is being mentioned mainly for items and things, which still isn't even fully viable on the new Monster Power...? And one last thing I know Rares are still somewhat useful just as cheap trash gear now until you find your first Legendary and such, but past that you never look back really


If you haven’t played in a few months, you might have missed out on some of the item improvements we’ve made along the way. In terms of patch 1.0.4, you might want to check out the blog we did regarding [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6923457/104_Legendary_Item_Improvements-8_14_2012"]Legendary Item Improvements[/url] as well as the various overall item improvements we made in [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7528695/"]patch 1.0.5[/url].

Regarding the death timer: The incrementing death timer is actually being removed in 1.0.7.


Hi Vaeflare /highfive, thanks for the response I was just about convinced no one reads this on Blizzard's side and was about ready to drop it entirely at Jan. 23rd 2013, although that date doesn't hold very much significance for me due to full-time school, it was the day where I might've went and looked at that other game entirely which I won't mention here. I also have no plans on playing it either until I'm done school anyways. D3 I might be returning sooner than that though.

This is about the 4th time I've made a thread like this but this one to be the largest and took nearly no effort on my part(In all honesty I write things like these on a daily basis for myself(development of my own project) & about other games; I write blogs & ... well can't disclose the other).

I fully admire the fact that skills and stats are the way the current Diablo 3 team wants that way to go if that's the case I hope you'll use this thread as a confirmation that skills & stat manual allocation won't happen and I have no problem with that anymore due to your confirmation. In fact I implore everyone else to just accept it as well for those who don't.

I won't say it's flawed or poorly designed or anything and agree that there are plenty of benefits to that development and design strategy. I only argued it in the sense that it should be available due to its previous titles following that trend and it seemed somewhat strange to completely switch the systems over. Sorry if it came off harsh but as a Diablo series lover from the past I found it odd and had to criticize on it. And No I am not a Diablo 2 veteran or Diablo 1 veteran seeking nostalgia or anything like that I am trying to be as objective as possible even if it may have come off offensive or attackingly. Criticism is hard to give w/o sounding against everything.

I appreciate the honesty(I hope its honest D:) and response regarding this aspect and am thankful to know that this is the new direction the development team is taking it. I hope in future content releases it'll be more dynamic and satiates(yes satiate not satisfy) the player's craving for dealing with stats and skills.
If that's the way you guys/girls want to go then I will instead think up ways to help improve it upon that direction when it comes to mind... oh hang on, I just remembered! Please enlarge the skill pool! if you can relay that to the development team. I know it'll probably be difficult to add more to the pool given the current UI, and skill pool and will take time but if that's the direction it's going to go, then PLEASE add more skills, people who play diablo play it excessively to a point its close to insanity. Not me, just saying.

I will check back for those legendaries later on, as for now I am still not fully convinced it's something to hook me back and keep me there for long sessions. It feels more like a quick jab to my attention span and then drop off really fast. That's why I haven't played since August, it's like letting a recharge meter fill up and have the excitement rocket in a direction into addiction. Although that may seem unhealthy I prefer to play games on long sessions without stop from time to time.

If it doesn't grant me that hook I'll lose interest extremely quick and move on to something else and may return years later. Which I don't really feel like it will happen with D3 with all the new games and other things coming out if I do come back this fast.

As per that last line regarding the death timers, THANK YOU. Anyone who argued that against me I cannot fathom any reason or deal why anyone would ever want to sit there watching a death timer when they want to get right back into the action immediately and swear vengeance on what killed them and return the favor.
Thank you for reading my post it has instilled faith in this aficionado of games.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/8/2013 6:02 PM PST
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01/08/2013 05:36 PMPosted by MasterJay
We feel... We feel... We feel... That's all I ever hear from blues. Well guess what, we don't "feel" what you "feel". How hard is that to understand?


I disagree with them (pretty sure almost everyone does) with their customization stance however their 'feeling' is the same as us when it comes to death timers. It just doesn't fit or belong in the game.

Sorry I was referring to her earlier post. Should've quoted. I don't care about death timers. I haven't seen one since 1.0.4
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I disagree with them (pretty sure almost everyone does) with their customization stance however their 'feeling' is the same as us when it comes to death timers. It just doesn't fit or belong in the game.

Sorry I was referring to her earlier post. Should've quoted. I don't care about death timers. I haven't seen one since 1.0.4


Oh ok yah the customization thing..just totally unacceptable in it's current form.

TL;DR example of my earlier post. Look at my amulet. It's customized to do 7% more skill mod of what I use. But at the sacrifice of things like CD and APS that would make my damage go way up. So I'm being punished to customize. Makes sense right?

Mara's amulet with 7-8% ET skill + CC + CD I've actually never seen on the open market or on Diablo progress

Trifecta amulets or even CC+CD+damage/int? plenty to choose from, cost less and gives way more damage benefit.

Customization is just flawed, period.
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 1/8/2013 5:45 PM PST
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01/08/2013 05:29 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We feel that as the game has evolved and stands now, there are sufficient penalties associated with character death, so the incrementing death timer it doesn’t feel necessary anymore.


I was playing a wizard and i loved the balance the had. Now my wizard dies too much, so i roll a barb because i can not tolerate laying on the ground dead for 30 seconds, 300+ hours of game play later you state that you plan on removing this feature. removing... devolution.. had i know three hundred hours ago this was coming i would have rolled a hardcore barb or soft core demon hunter. As I stated, please, pick a direction and stick with it. The constant alteration to game mechanics makes build diversity hardly an option. The only option at the moment is to pick the skills and or class that are over powered and follow suit. Please tell the developer that wrote a piece of script just to see it deleted in a future patch that I am sorry to see his or her hard work deleted due to a lack of direction. Although this matter does upset me please understand that I am trying to be constructive in this post.
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01/08/2013 05:45 PMPosted by atom428
300+ hours of game play later you state that you plan on removing this feature. removing... devolution..


How is that devolution? A death timer isn't a game breaking feature. It's hardly even a feature. Most could care less if it's in there or not. No need to be so dramatic. Let them do what they want without ripping your face off and eating your eye balls.
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Paragon Levelling - This is just an extension of your grind, I wouldn't call it an improvement as well, it's just an "illusion" of accomplishment past level 60 which grants nothing but extra "auto-allocated" stats. At first when I saw it being put in I was tempted to re-login and play, but to find out it's just more automated stats even, made it pointless. But after having the thought of just main stat & vit, why doesn't my Paragon levels just tunnel all those stats gained directly into main stat?
It is just a weaker form of levelling from 1-60, just without skills being unlocked. sigh...


The [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6968517/"]Paragon system[/url] was designed as a way to help address Magic Find/gear-swapping and the Magic Find stat in general along with offering an end-game character progression grind. The Diablo III end-game is fundamentally for people who enjoy making their character feel more powerful, investing time into slaughtering hordes of enemies, and hunting for loot. The Paragon system provides players with a predictable reward they can work towards. But for us, grinding alone is not enough. We like that there are still random item drops, you can change your build if you get bored, and it's all designed to complement a fluid combat system.

01/03/2013 12:13 AMPosted by KradisZ
Infernal Machine - Serves like an event in any MMO it's a scavenger hunt and doesn't seem to thrilling just watching videos and streamers do it. I'm being honest here, it really feels lik an event being held in an MMO, except those FREE MMO's give these kinds of things seasonally and at a higher rate Diablo 3 will ever gain.


In terms of free additional content, we’d love to add more events similar to Infernal Machine to the Diablo universe, but whatever we add needs to fit within the scope of the game and needs to be weighed against other design costs. D3 isn’t an MMO, so it’s not going to receive regular content additions like an MMO (in terms of frequency and reward structures), but we’re definitely keeping our options open for the future, so don’t hesitate to let us know what interests you!

FFXIV:ARR For example the DIRECTOR even said to take WoW as a base test and improve on that and make it into their own style, and to study market trends to see what worked and get player feedback and ENGAGE IN CONVERSATION WITH PLAYERS in a LARGE scale not just a few random select individuals, through FORUMS, SOCIAL MEDIA, BLOGS & FREQUENT POSTS.


Pertaining to engaging in conversations with the players: we aim to do just that, and we’re dedicated to improving on this further. I for one am extremely active on our official social media channels (especially [url="https://twitter.com/Diablo"]Twitter[/url] and [url="http://www.facebook.com/Diablo"]Facebook[/url]), and have recently started branching out to other communities to try and connect a bit more there as well (including Reddit and [url="http://vaeflare.deviantart.com/"]DeviantArt[/url]). One of the things I think that it’s key to realize, however, is that while part of our job is indeed to be a presence on the forums and communicate with all of you, part of that job also entails stepping away from the forums so that we can gather feedback, communicate with the developers, attend meetings, moderate, draft up social media, write blogs: the whole shebang. The behind-the-scenes portion of our job isn’t easy to see, but hopefully the numerous improvements that have been made over the passing months shows that we’ve been listening and passing along feedback, and we plan to continue doing just that. :)


Okay fine I'll agree that it does complement a fluid combat system(Darn you :P), D3 does indeed have a very fluid combat system. I'm not too sure if that addressed the magic-find gear swapping but I suppose it did to a certain extent and add in some growth of character development in. But to repeatedly do a task just to gain these levels and bonuses (such as grinding) isn't too appealing to me. I've played enough grinds in my lifetime to know when a game is headed down the hole by extending its product life simply by extending a repetition, especially without variance. I would love the system if there were a lot more ways to accumulate EXP rather than just slaughter things mindlessly and repeatedly and hope that such additions will come within the year, here's hoping still(since August :) ).

Alright I understand that Diablo 3 isn't an MMO... at least... I think I do, but with the Auction House and even confirmation from a previous CM (Bashiok) that drops did revolve around the Auction House it did feel like an MMO restricted to 4 player dungeon runs.

Okay but fine it's not an MMO it's an ARPG (not a hack and slash in my books), although content additions won't be as much as an MMO,

I sincerely hope you and the development team at least take into consideration of the Azmodan's Siege Castle idea, I've already explained its benefits and its target market and what it can do all with recycled assets. If not then... okay *shrug*, I'll be curious to see what you guys have up your sleeve. I'm not going to go raving around if they do decide to use the idea it'd just be a nice addition that I believe is consistent with Diablo 3's current systems. Just something one of your players thinks will help the game immensely.
EDIT: if you want to be even more thorough just make a poll and see how many people want it. I'm sure it'll be lots.


Regarding that last part I'm glad to hear you're socially active among the venues that most people check and see, but the forums here are equally as important, if not even more. It's quite disheartening to see these threads & many other things go without any response for pretty much half a month each time.

I know you all have to attend meetings conferences design shakedowns and whatnot, I'm not oblivious to that for sure, but it'd nice to get a check-in from you and the other CMs maybe once a week, daily is just asking too much. I've seen Blizzard's studio and HQ(pretty bold statement I guess), seen development teams and gone through development cycles, game design classes & studios and I know that job is extremely demanding from customers(i.e the players) and highly stressful with crazy crunch time and OT during certain phases of milestones and the like. But a simple drop-in weekly would be nice rather than silence for half a month to something else.

Maybe even just rumor debunking would be nice, or small tidbits of why the blog posts are delayed or something. Not asking for miracles or lies here just some communication.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/8/2013 6:05 PM PST
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