Diablo® III

Choosing a Witch Doctor Weapon - Guide

Still kind of wish the MCK could at least roll a second random. Having to choose between Life Steal and Socket....always going to choose Life Steal. That's just me.

But can't a Lv. 63 Rare Ceremonial Knife roll something in the idea of....

100 CHD
14 Mana Regen
Intelligence
Min-Max Damage (Is that one or two affixes?)
Attack Speed
Socket

Would technically be the perfect weapon, wouldn't it?
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Still kind of wish the MCK could at least roll a second random. Having to choose between Life Steal and Socket....always going to choose Life Steal. That's just me.


MCK can roll LS and socket. There are plenty of them.


But can't a Lv. 63 Rare Ceremonial Knife roll something in the idea of....

100 CHD
14 Mana Regen
Intelligence
Min-Max Damage (Is that one or two affixes?)
Attack Speed
Socket

Would technically be the perfect weapon, wouldn't it?


A rare knife hardly ever rolls above 70% CD. That's why MCKs are so popular - high CD, int, LS, and socket.
Min-Max damage is on all weapons and is not an affix.
Most people do not want attack speed on their knife as 1.4 attack speed on the weapon is more than enough for most builds.
And then you would also want a black damage knife to take maximum advantage of +elemental damage on Zuni boots, Tal Rasha ammy, and SoJ rings.
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just to share my experiences with weaps:

imo, it is cheaper to get a manajuma knife with socket and high CD and int than to get the equivalent dps rare.

I was looking at a 1200 dps axe with 50CD, LS and socket called hungering weapon (or similar...and yes, it is a dupe as they go on sale weekly (sometimes daily) and there were multiple copies available last week at the same time)

My knife actually does more dmg according to d3rawr...people have to understand how much dmg CD brings. For me 50CD = 19k dps and the 198 int on my weap = 13-14k dps...and the bonus is that my knife was about half the gold of the axe.

Another thing is that I also bought a 1400 dps skorn (just to experiement with). The theory crafters say that the low attack speed helps maintain mana...and this is exactly what i experienced. Mana management at high mp was much easier with the skorn making it a nice cheaper alternative than going with an elite 1hander and mojo

Oh, and the skorn I bought only has 4.5 LS. I don't think you need 6LS on the skorn....i'm used to the 3% LS of a MCK, so 4.5LS was like Christmas. So my suggestion is to save gold and get a lower LS skorn. 4.5% LS was plenty at mp10 for me
Edited by fabbyhunter#1917 on 4/3/2013 10:26 AM PDT
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04/03/2013 10:00 AMPosted by skywalkerfx
MCK can roll LS and socket. There are plenty of them.


I made a mistake. I meant Mana Regeneration and Life Steal and Socket. I think Mana Regeneration and a Socket would mean TWO Randoms....where you can only have one.

A rare knife hardly ever rolls above 70% CD. That's why MCKs are so popular - high CD, int, LS, and socket.
Min-Max damage is on all weapons and is not an affix.
Most people do not want attack speed on their knife as 1.4 attack speed on the weapon is more than enough for most builds.
And then you would also want a black damage knife to take maximum advantage of +elemental damage on Zuni boots, Tal Rasha ammy, and SoJ rings.


And that is what I am saying. I could definitely go with a little attack speed. But my point is, I would like to start looking for a way to acquire a 1000 DPS (or higher) Ceremonial Knife that had High CD, Intelligence, Life Steal, Mana Regeneration and a Socket. And have it be black damage. I know it seems nearly impossible, but I want to stick with a weapon that helps me regenerate mana. And obviously my knife is in serious need of an upgrade.
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04/03/2013 10:52 AMPosted by Unzero
I know it seems nearly impossible, but I want to stick with a weapon that helps me regenerate mana

If you get a weapon like an axe or a spear, the slower attack speed will save you more mana than the mana regen on a fast knife buys you. Just do the math. Bears costs 140 mana. With a knife that means you are using 196 mana/sec spamming bears. Subtract say 12 mana per second from that from the regen and you are at 184 mana/sec { (140x1.4) - 12 }. With an axe you are using 182 mana/sec (140x1.3). You will also hit way bigger damage numbers since your damage comes from weapon damage and not attack speed. This disparity is increased further when using a spear with 1.2 attacks/sec.
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I know some people roll with Skorn, and it can be a truly beautiful weapon. But losing out on the Mojo slot is something I just don't see happening. If it wasn't for the fact that I can't seem to get Pickup Radius stacked up anywhere except my Thing of the Deep....

I would probably drop the Thing, which I really only have for the Mana help it gives me. Mine is:

Thing of the Deep

+94-358 Damage
+160 Intelligence
+11% Life
Regenerates 83 Life per Second
+110 Maximum Mana
Increases Mana Regeneration by 10 per Second
Critical Hit Chance increased by 8.5%
Increases Gold and Health Pickup by 20 yards

Where, in that same slot, if I could make some of my other items better by picking up those 20 yards of Pickup somewhere else, I could go with an Uhkapian Serpent or even a Manajuma's Gory Fetch. The only reason I would aim for completing that particular set, is because my bottom and most likely top average damage on the Mojo would be higher, I'm guaranteed more Intelligence (even the base item roll before Set bonus is higher on the low end), can maintain a %Life bonus to fuel my Vitality, will gain more Mana Regeneration, and with the included skill buff (for me it would be Zombie Charger resource cost reduction), and if it was even possible, 10% Critical Hit Chance. Now add in the bonus 130 intelligence and the poison cloud....definitely worth it!

But yeah, to me, Skorn seems...not Witch Doctery enough.
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Check out my knife; 39m from the AH, add the gem and you are at ~120m or so. End game.
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04/03/2013 11:39 AMPosted by Axxegrinder
Check out my knife; 39m from the AH, add the gem and you are at ~120m or so. End game.


That knife makes me cry. Very nice!
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04/03/2013 11:39 AMPosted by Axxegrinder
Check out my knife; 39m from the AH, add the gem and you are at ~120m or so. End game.

Dude, your amulet, your bracers, your gloves, wow.
Good find on the weapon.
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@ skywalkerfx

Congratulations for the guide, great job!

Now I would like to ask for a tip for my fellow voodoo. I am with two big problems in my gear.

One is the lack of CD, should I change my Echoing Fury by a Skorn, or by Blackthorne's The Witching Hour?

Can you help me?

Thanks.
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04/05/2013 01:20 PMPosted by Malvado
One is the lack of CD, should I change my Echoing Fury by a Skorn, or by Blackthorne's The Witching Hour?


Yep - Get a weapon with a socket and crit damage (preferably a spear or mace) and get a witching hour. The rest of your cd gear is fine
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Hi! great post!!

The thing is... one of those rare knife with socket,cd and 3%LS dropped yesterday, and it has black damage of 917!!
But i can't find a build that uses carving knife, they all seem to recommend skorns, do you have any build that would fit the 1.40 attacks per second of the knife? i really don't want to sell it :(
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Sure run my build, your attack speed will help you throw WoS faster. Keep the AS down on your other gear (for bears) and compare it to what you are running now.

1.08 Spirit Bears Build http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8891580088#1 Designed to kill mobs fast, to spam Spirit Barrage/WoS without running out of mana, and to sustain bears with locust swarm.
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Skywalker (or anyone who sees this): still trying to figure this out, in your example you have:

"Black Damage Example:

Zuni boots which add +8% poison damage

Weapon - Manajuma’s Ceremonial Knife:

996 DPS

386 -1036 Damage

1.4 Attack Speed

+282 – 618 Poison Damage

So in this example the 282 – 618 Poison Damage on the Manajuma’s would not get the additional 8% damage from the Zuni Boots. However, the non-poison damage part of the weapon does get the 8% damage, so subtracting out poison damage from total damage would give 104 – 418 black weapon damage times the 8% multiplier."

So for mine;

980.9 dps

a) 381.08-1020.24 Damage

1.40 Attacks per Second

b) +276-594 Poison Damage

To figure this out, I should do the following?

1) Add the lower and higher numbers in (a) black and divide by two; in my case this gives 700.5
2) Next, add the lower and higher numbers from (b) poison and divide by two; gives me 435
3) To get my base 'black' damage that the +% elemental will benefit, I subtract the output of (b) from (a), resulting in 265.
4) I now multiply the new number, 265 by the +% elemental damage, say 6% for a Tal's ammy, resulting in a DPS bonus of +21.

21 DPS doesn't sound like much, but I'm not sure where my math is wrong. Can anyone please help? Thanks!
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That sounds right... up to a point.

In your case, you should be adding the damage from your Zuni's Pox, as + x-y damage from jewelry counts towards black damage (and +min/+max damage modifies black damage ranges). You should also add in your mojo damage, which will help quite a bit.

Adding the average damage from each of those brings your black damage up to 570 (note that your mojo contributes almost as much as your dagger).

Also, I believe (but am not 100% certain) that ruby damage is part of the black damage, even if the weapon has +elemental damage.

If so, that should bring you up to 730. With a 6% Tal's, that should give you 43.8 bonus damage, as I understand it.

Note that my setup gives me 1184.5 damage per hit on average, so I'd get 71.07 bonus damage for my non-elemental weapon (plus mojo + amulet).

However, I believe this is all just part of the base weapon damage. It is then further increased by damage multipliers (int bonus, crits, etc.). It is then multiplied by attacks/second.
Edited by Marruk#1608 on 9/3/2013 10:34 AM PDT
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Thanks for figuring this out for me Marruk, I really appreciate it!

What I did then to figure out the 'DPS' increase was to divide that damage bonus (43.8) by 2, and add the 21.9 to the lower/upper 'black' damage range of the knife (I did this through d3up, so I think in effect I was adding to the min/max overall damage).

If I'm doing it correctly, the 6% elemental actually adds ~4.6k dps total for me.

Now the only thing left to compute is if the +% elemental and +3% fire damage show up on the tooltip (properly? at all?) in the AH.

In case you are wondering I'm trying to figure out if a Tal's ammy is going to be beneficial to me or not.

Thanks
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980.9 dpsa) 381.08-1020.24 Damage1.40 Attacks per Secondb) +276-594 Poison DamageTo figure this out, I should do the following?


I would do it this way:
Step 1: average damage = (381 + 1020) / 2 = 700.66
.........(check against APS), 1.4 x 700.66 = 980.9 DPS (correct)

Step 2: black damage portion = 700.66 - [(276+594) / 2] = 265.66
Any ruby or "+ave damage" stat or "%element damage" modifies this portion. To be accurate, ruby in weapon or "+ave damage" (both are "black damage" additions) add to your total damage per hit, but in this case, it doesn't affect the calculations because we are going to add the "black damage" before we multiply the %element. The %element helps with all "black damage" components (including rings, amulet, ruby in weapon).

Step 3: 6% Tals = 0.06 x 265.66 = 15.9396 damage per hti

Step 4: Effect of APS, 1.4 x 15.9396 = 22.3 DPS

Step 5: 6% Tals helps MCK DPS by 22.3 / 980.9 = 2.275% (instead of 6%)

In my CoB guide, I listed many reasons against MCK. The only sensible way to use MCK is to insert a ruby and pair it with a good MGF mojo for the +130 Intel bonus. The wastage is less, but still significant, especially when you have other %element items such as Zuni boots, SoJ ring.

Sideline note: For 1H path, crafted amulet is potentially better than Tal's amulet. Max the "+average damage" stat and CHD stat on all available gear slots. For 1H path, CHC is easy to get, it is the CHD that is hard to get.
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09/03/2013 10:57 AMPosted by Axxegrinder
Now the only thing left to compute is if the +% elemental and +3% fire damage show up on the tooltip (properly? at all?) in the AH.


"+%element" goes into your character sheet and is shown on AH. "+3% fire skills damage" does not go into the character sheet and won't show on AH. To expand on the topic, all the set items bonus do not show up on AH links because the game does not know how many set pieces you are going to wear, to trigger off the corresponding set bonus properties.

I think (didn't bother to confirm) your d3 profile and profile at other 3rd party websites will show the set bonus properties, but will not show the "+3% fire skills damage" since that stat is not reflected on the character sheet and it is not certain if you are going to use fire skills.
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Thanks PaulNg, so it sounds like the AH tooltip is correct then when linking a Tal Ammy (or any +% elemental item), and the only thing it doesn't account for is the +3% fire damage.

Based on that, I'm disappointed in the Tal upgrade potential vs my crafted (270 int, 10% cc, 97% chd). Bummer.
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Based on that, I'm disappointed in the Tal upgrade potential vs my crafted (270 int, 10% cc, 97% chd). Bummer.


Consider yourself lucky with that craft. :)
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