Diablo® III

PVP is easy to implement; here's how.

Posts: 41
Revised: so the bads below understand. And if 5% is too low, make it 6%, 7%, 8%, etc. Tweak it. It's a simple fix.

Okay so, those of us wanting pvp, this is all blizz needs to do;

In the options menu, beside *Enable monster power selection* enter an option to 'Enable PvP level ranges.'

****Notes****

Now, how to implement PvP:

Make ALL DAMAGE DEALT do 5% of normal damage, to players. *
(This means, if you do 100k dps, you're doing 5k dps. They'll mitigate armor, then resistances, then playerskills. Respectively.
Assuming the average dps is 100k, pvp dps is 5k. 50% of that is 2.5k. 75% of that is 625 dps. If you're using skills, like hydra, or frenzy, you're hitting for 4-6 times per second, in effect. You'd easily do over 2500 dps to someone, given the stats mentioned. Assuming your build was completely offensive. You'd also likely die in the same amount of time you'd kill someone of equal strength or greater. Mind, this method is designed to give you a fighting chance, if you're fighting someone with 100k dps, and you have 50k dps, you will do 2.5k base to their 5k base. If you have life on hit(which they won't have as much as a result of having more dps, you'll potentially beat them.)

Allow the option to enable PvP, impact the ENTIRE GAME. **
(This is what we hoped for when thinking of diablo 3, in the past)

With the option to enable PvP, allowing public games with this option enabled to disable parties, however adding the ability TO party, would make it so players joining are not visible, could potentially allow for us to actually COMPETE for KILL RIGHTS ON MONSTERS(FUNFUN) and, until physically visible in-game players could actually gank in-game. And that alone, is fun. Especially when considering the below points...

DISABLE DURABILITY CHECK IN PvP ***
(This, so we don't have people being killed and going broke(literally) over it. It's nonsensical to make us lose gold when another player attacks us. This is, as a direct cause, a flaw in logic. Someone shouldn't make me lose gold, but rather, time, at best.)

Enable Self-Respawn after 10s in PvP. ****
(This isn't arena mode. It's not TDM. Respawning shouldn't be a team-based function in PVP, if it's 'open world'.)

Add a PvP Kill timer with a victim's Retaliation mission *****
(If player C has been killed by player A, or player A + B, than player C cannot be killed by those players for 2 minutes. If the player accepts the quest, they can return the favor. If they do, they get 1%(capped at 100k) of the killers gold, or some experience. This way, players have incentive to pvp.)

Make the Blessing in-town, given by the NPC's a 2minute timer, allowing for increased PVP damage dealt, and reduced PVP damage taken. Lasts 30 minutes. Cooldown, 1hour after initiation. Lost on death.******
(This will encourage players to get their blessing before leaving town in a PVP enabled game. Whether they're ganking, or attempting to avoid being ganked.)

NOTES*

*Lets go crazy, and say you deal 500k dps. at 5%, you're doing 25k DPS. Which should sound like a lot in PVP, considering most average equipped players only have around 30-50k hp.
The mitigation of ARMOR and RESISTANCES: If you mitigate 50% damage with armor, 25k becomes 12.5k. If you mitigate further, with resistances, 75%(the inferno MUST have), than said 12.5k is now 3.125k DPS.
If you are the recipient of this damage, even without factoring in SKILL REDUCTIONS, you're only taking 3k/hit. That's less than skeletons hit you for. So, those hyper-crazy dps players, won't likely kill you in a matter of 1-3 seconds. It'l take them 10(within the context of this example) seconds to kill someone with 30k hp.
In a realistic, ideal fight, without lifesteal - I'm going to die to a 500k DPS barb, in 10-15 seconds with these numbers. Assuming I have 30-40k HP. That is, unless I fight back. If I have 1k life on hit, and/or have a blessing, giving me a chance... This alone, would be perfectly acceptable PvP for d3.

**The point to this is that, arena pvp is boring and bawls. Nobody likes it, nobody wants it - At least, no one person who's serious about pvp in diablo takes this as a bonus. Lets face it, Mag's lair with 3 other players using skills on you, will be fun for 25 minutes. Max. That's 5 matches. So, why not make it open world with the notes listed here? This would be perfect. Also, simple.

*** Durability is effectively a gold sink - But in PVP, should it be allowed?
I don't think so. If said 500k dps (barb) comes to gank an underequipped level 60(1), than said 60(1) will likely be discouraged altogether from playing their class, or the PvP option in general - This is a bad plan. With that said, disabling durability check in PVP, makes for a win-win scenario. Killer gets bragging rights(and an ear, which by the way, should be in our character sheet, NOT as an item in our stash) and the victim gets, at best - a laugh.

****Self respawning is a must.
If you're solo and lose your progression over a pvp engagement, you're losing your mind. Hence, allowing one to res themselves, should be a no-brainer. PVP only, mind.

*****A kill timer should also be an easy thought. Allowing someone to continuously engage another player, killing them over and over, is nonsensical.
Ergo, a 2minute timer would allow for a grace period where in a victim could reequip, reskill and re-engage their assailant. Awarding them with exp, gold, what have you. I personally enjoy the idea that; if I'm player C, and I'm killed by A and B, than if I kill them back(quest style), I net 1%(100k capped) of their gold. Drops right from their purse. Similarly, if I kill them, and they wish to return the favor, I need to be on my toes, dagnabbit.

******Make that stupid blessing in every town, worth something.

Period.

TLDR; Add pvp option to the game, set a 5% damage check, set the basic parameters for functional pvp listed above, and... Ready set go.

This would make diablo WORTH the $70 I paid for it. More over, it'd amplify the fun, tenfold. For pvp'ers and non-pvp'ers alike.

P.S, grammar's bad as hell, but, I couldn't care less to fix it. It's understandable - so, deal with it.
Edited by Descyphal#1107 on 12/27/2012 5:13 PM PST
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Posts: 41
800k damage in 1 hit:

5% of that is 40k, -50%(20k), -75%(5k) - character skills (lets go with WD's 15% reduction, which is a total damage in-take in pvp, of: 4,250 damage. This, from a normally 800k critical.

That sounds about right, and fair. Considering, to do 800k crits, you're needing good gear, and to take 4.25k damage from said 800k, you don't. More over, with other defensive attributes(skills/gear) you're reducing it further. And with 40k HP, 10 hits to die is quite fair.
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Going by the defensive stats you provided, let's say someone does 100k dps which isn't low.
5% of that is 5k dps. -50% = 2.5k. -75% = 625 damage per second. That means that you'd only need 625 life regen per second (which you can get very easily on 2-3 gear pieces) to avoid all damage from a 100k dps player. And that's without fighting back/using defensive skills/running away etc.

TL;DR I really don't think you thought these numbers through, and balancing stuff like this takes a lot more time than you seem to think.
Edited by Fwib#2660 on 12/27/2012 2:51 PM PST
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Posts: 41
I disagree. If you're going to suggest nonsense, do it with in reason.

If I deal 100k dps, and as a result in pvp, after mitigation, deal 625 - I would have to use SKILLS to deal more dps. Lets look at a wizard build:

Spectral Blades deals 165% (165k)
Hydra deals 65%. (230k)
Venom deals 5%/second. (235k)
deep cuts deals 15%/second (250k)

Cold Blooded deals 20% more of the sum total (300k)
Conflag deals 10% more of the sum total (325k)

With hydra, and spectral blades alone, I deal 325k/second, assuming this data...

325k/second at 5%, is 16.25k
50%(armor) of that is 8.125k
75%(resists) of that is 2.031k.

I deal 2,031 dps to the target.

With 100k dps, and the above mentioned skills, target would need 2031~ life regen to outlive my damage. If I added explosive blast, arcane orb, arcane dynamo, or virtually ANY other DPS skill in my build(which, in pvp, you need to maximize. CM builds would be pointless in a 10 second fight, it's about alpha damage and running around, not sustaining uber ghom gas clouds, here) I'd completely out damage their life regen.

If they built more than 2031 life regen, than if I wanted to kill this one person, THAT badly, I'd re-equip my 150k dps build, and get even higher dps, and come back and stomp this person... slowly... eventually killing them.

If they have a party, or even a mercenary - which should also be allowed in pvp - I'd lose the fight, with my hyper dps build.(I can only hit 150k dps right now. So, sue me.)

And yes, sure, someone might have 200-250k dps from time to time. I've met 2 people on the forums with this damage. Ever since AS nerf, it's not a common character sheet stat, from what I've seen. most of the better builds for say, spectral wiz, do 100-180k tops. A gimpy 30k hp player has more than enough time to change skills, on the fly - before they die from this. Granted they may not be able to use them at first, but running around helps, doesn't it?

Now, since we're playing the hypothetical game - theory building - having that life regen, they'd likely do significantly less dps than me. And my tank would likely be significantly higher as well. So, if they have that tank - they're gimping themselves in inferno, and they're gimping their own damage in pvp.

Remember, pvp in an OPTION in this suggested method. Enabling it, means you understand pvp may happen. So you likely would want to build for it - that, or, it might actually encourage the loners out there, to make a friggin friend, and perhaps play together, for a change, eh'?

We won't even count glass cannon's 15%. on a side note. And with that said, lets say worst case scenario - if life regen is too strong, it can either be nerfed(it's basically crap anyways) OR, better yet, since apparently balancing for pvp AT ALL is going to be an obvious argument, instead of 5%, do 6% damage in pvp. Simple, innit?
Edited by Descyphal#1107 on 12/27/2012 9:37 PM PST
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Make ALL DAMAGE DEALT do 5% of normal damage, to players. *
(This means, if you do 100k dps, you're doing 5k dps.)


So basically if your only walking around with 35k-50k dps your going to deal 1.7k - 2.5kdps instead.

Couple this with massive LoH, lifesteal, high hp and/or armor....

No this isn't going to work... that is unless you want to Pay2Win of course
Edited by Deadlysynz#1583 on 12/27/2012 3:03 PM PST
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Only way to make PvP work is to make PvE work first.

As they said, the game is about PvE first and the game has been built around that. In order to deal with MP 10's monsters with bazillions of hp's you need high damage weapons and crit damage stacked out the ying yang. With this, there also needs to be high armor, high LoH, life regeneration, all resist etc.. This doesn't work in a PvP environment.

Reducing the damage from players isn't going to work because of the other factors. Reducing everything across the board will just make it boring.. mine as well fight naked.

A person with crap gear might be someone who deals around 1000 dps with like 50 LoH, life regen, AR, and crit damage. Then a person with BiS gear might deal around 2000dps, 100 LOH, life regen, AR and crit damage because of how things are scaled down.

Only 2 things that will make PvP work:

1. Completely re-vamp, and retool the game's mechanics, skills, affixes, damage, monsters hp etc..

2. PvP gear (which many are so dead set against)

Anything other than those, people will be back here complaining again about one thing or another.
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Posts: 41
Make ALL DAMAGE DEALT do 5% of normal damage, to players. *
(This means, if you do 100k dps, you're doing 5k dps.)


So basically if your only walking around with 35k-50k dps your going to deal 1.7k - 2.5kdps instead.

Couple this with massive LoH, lifesteal, high hp and/or armor....

No this isn't going to work... that is unless you want to Pay2Win of course


I haven't paid for anything on my character. I've only recently swapped my weapon from an azurewrath(found in inf, northwest gate, 800 dps) to a 1220 dps lifesteal sword(found in inf keep level 2), I'm all legendary/set otherwise. I have 150k dps when trying for it, and 100k dps tanked.

THe days I had 30-60k dps, I also had less defense.

Guess what, bro... There's something called non-static itemization that occurs on the regular. NOT EVERYONE HAS MY TANK AND DPS. Ergo, not everyone is lifestealing, not everyone is healingblade wiz, not everyone is running 79% resists and 72% armor. Similarly, not everyone is running 150k dps.

And yes. If the DAMAGE is reduced, ideally the HEALING AND REGENERATION would be reduced, as well. It's called a PVP flag. And, in D2, healing wasn't reduced. Yet it worked similarly there? Why? Because it's reasonable.

Lifesteal is a moot point, altogether. If I have 5% lifesteal(barb 1h+belt), and I do 5% of my damage, I'm healing for 5% of the reduced damage. Meaning, I'm getting a good, 125 health in a 2500 damage hit, vs a player. I feel as though, you and the other fella, "haven't thought this out" and "do not realize how simple this is to implement".

xxBarabbasxx
Hey I play D3, I am more than qualified to tell you how to fix the game.... *sigh*

Any other dumb @holes got any other stupid ideas?


I play d3. I played d2. I played d1. I've played many other games, although this is not relevant. Math is math, and math is what is limiting our game experience, as this game, is ALL ABOUT NUMBERS. From your ITEMS, to your STATS, to you ATTRIBS, to your DPS. The reason we lack PVP, is that THE NUMBERS are FAR GREATER THAN EXPECTED, through a lack of forethought by the developers. And rather than REDUCE THE NUMBERS, they want to REMOVE the potential altogether.

Again, if you do 5% of the damage to a player, you heal(lifesteal) for 5% of that. Which is almost a moot affix altogether at that point. And if you have 1k life on hit, and are recieving 5k damage/hit, the person hitting you /will/ kill you. There's no argument here. Healing for 1k does not trump recieving 5k. Even if you have four times their HP pool to begin with. More over, if I'm getting 2,000 health/second, than, to put it simply - THAT IS MY BUILD CHOICE. You wouldn't even HAVE to reduce this number, to make pvp fair. If a dude with 30k dps, and 500 all res, can't kill me with my 100k dps, and 1200 all res... Than that makes perfect sense, to me. Because itemization is key, in every diablo game. As it is in every game, in pvp. Unless, you know, you're playing CounterStrike, where, skill and dexterity IRL matters.
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better:
95% nerf all stats FROM ITEMS

no need to touch base stats, everyone has the same amount at same plevel

item stats should be a flavor added to players ehc skill, not decider
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Posts: 41
Only way to make PvP work is to make PvE work first.

As they said, the game is about PvE first and the game has been built around that. In order to deal with MP 10's monsters with bazillions of hp's you need high damage weapons and crit damage stacked out the ying yang. With this, there also needs to be high armor, high LoH, life regeneration, all resist etc.. This doesn't work in a PvP environment.

Reducing the damage from players isn't going to work because of the other factors. Reducing everything across the board will just make it boring.. mine as well fight naked.

A person with crap gear might be someone who deals around 1000 dps with like 50 LoH, life regen, AR, and crit damage. Then a person with BiS gear might deal around 2000dps, 100 LOH, life regen, AR and crit damage because of how things are scaled down.

Only 2 things that will make PvP work:

1. Completely re-vamp, and retool the game's mechanics, skills, affixes, damage, monsters hp etc..

2. PvP gear (which many are so dead set against)

Anything other than those, people will be back here complaining again about one thing or another.


Your opening statement is nonsensical. You're saying, to deal with high HP and high damage, with no defense on the target - you need high damage and lots of defense. Yes. This is ALSO the case in EVERY PVP GAME.

Where in this do you see the failed logic? If you reduce all damage BY A PLAYER - TO A PLAYER, than when the player hits the monster for 800k, they'll do this:

800k to monster(in pvp) = 40k to a player.

That is 5%.

Now, players have ARMOR, then RESISTS, then SKILLS to factor in.

ARMOR at 50%(low) reduces 40k to 20k.
Resists at 75%(medium-high) reduces 20k to 5k.
Skills at 15%(WD passive) reduces 5k to 4.25k.

If an average player at 60, is running 30-40k hp, than they'll die in 7-10 hits.
You also realize, that, players can attack MUCH FASTER than once a second. Especially with skills doing multiple hits(spectral blades).

Lets say the person heals for 2k/second, hypothetically. Spectral blades do 165% weapon damage. And I have 100k dps.

If the target has the above mentioned stats + 2k life/second, I will kill him. Here's the math.

100k dps with spectral (165%) and a 50% armor mitigation drops it to = 82,500
82.5k damage and an all resist mitigation of 75% = 20,625
20,625 and a passive skill for 15% reduced damage is 17,531.25 damage.

In PVP, you do 5% of the damage you'd otherwise normally do to monsters. All of the above numbers are what you'd do to monsters, if they had our resists and armor. Instead, lets see what that final number is, if you only did 5% of that... 876.56 dps.

Okay, so, in pvp, I'd deal 876.56 dps I also, as a wizard, wouldn't be going frost nova and diamond skin, I'd be using blizzard, chance to freeze, hydra(lightning) and deep cuts with venom magic weapon, along with a spark flint for 310 hp/second(it does damage as well) and arcane orbit or explosive blast(where in, when you add all together, I'm dealing a good 3 time that dps) I'd be doing well over 2,400 damage per second. This isn't including the crit hits from the skills. Or the fact that hydra constantly attacks over 15 seconds.

I'd completely shatter that 2k life per second, by a factor of 2 or 3. Bringing the WD's health pool from 30-40k(average) to 0 in a matter of 8-15 seconds.

This, sounds about right. Similarly, he'd be doing damage to me, getting any lifesteal, or zombiedog healing he has.

Look - the bottom line is, even with health cumulation and regeneration where it is, now - at 5%, we as players with 100k dps, would completely obliterate a target that is outfit with INFERNO MP5 gear. This is taking into account my MP5 setup. If you want to talk about an MP10 character, than you'll have to give me some average MP10 stats to give you the numbers for.

And even then, if an MP10 character is killing an mp5 character, or an mp1 character - welcome to PVP. Where people who are built to whoop !@# - can actually whoop $%^.

I feel as though you DIDNT READ my post. If this would be implemented, the math is sound to make it completely viable. More over, there is an OPTION in my suggested method, to enable or disable pvp. Where in, I'd welcome you to use your brain, and think about it, before ignoring the obvious - even you, with your bad character sheet, would have fun and survive battles vs other average players.
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Posts: 41
"better: nerf all items to 5% instead of damage


Though this seems like it could work, you'd have to rework skills for pvp, such as the monk's heal, or wizards diamond skin to make characters 5% of what they were - you'd still end up with the exact same outcome as NOT touching them at all.

Where as if you remain where you are, however you effectively have a "pvp flag" which makes all damage taken from a player(easier to code, and, it won't change your stats individually vs monsters) to 5% from 100%(monster target) than you can still do quests, and expect pvp.

See, the problem isn't in that changing all item effects to 5% effectively means you're at 100%, just at the 5% value - it's that we want to stay active in the game doing quests as well. PVP shouldn't be an arena. It should be done via surprise and have a certain level of... mystique, to it. They could just as well add the arena, as it is - the issue is there's nothing to it outside of: go punch one of two targets, rinse and repeat... And you couldn't keep at the quests if you did what you're suggesting.

What I'm suggesting, is to add an OPTION to enable PVP, same as monster power, but adds an additional flag to your character that reduced player damage by 95%. This way, we can deal our normal damage and normal stats to everything else - but players can still fight eachother if pvp is enabled.

I'd also like the "quest" aspect implemented, to give the "incentive to pvp"(stated by jay wilson) and make it so if you're killed by a player, they can be killed back, and end up giving you 1% of their max gold(100k capped) or something.
Edited by Descyphal#1107 on 12/27/2012 3:53 PM PST
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It never ceases to amaze me how people with no programming skills think something they want will be easy to code. Creating a PvP mode where damage against players and monster is different, regeneration is nerfed, durability loss is disabled, the player respawns where they die, and players lose 100,000 gold every time they're killed isn't easy to implement. It requires major changes.

Also why would anyone want to play in PvP when it's nothing but ganking (causing a loss of exp, gold, items), being killed every 2 minutes by stronger players, and losing 100,000 gold every time you die.

Oh one more thing, your maths is wrong for 2 reasons.

1) Given that many skills allow the player to attack rapidly, such as the Demon Hunter's Rapid Fire, 7-10 hits can occur in a few seconds (less if the player has a high attack speed). So the other player will have no time to respond before dying.

2) Some attacks do high multiples of the base damage, for example if a Demon Hunter's base attack was 100,000 and they used Rapid Fire (275% base damage) the damage of each arrow would be 275,000. This will do about 29K damage according to your reduction calculations, killing most players in 2-3 hits.

So high damage builds will dominate PvP because it will be very difficult to have enough life or defence to withstand them.
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Posts: 41
Fixed the original post. And, if 5% is too low, change it to any number between 5 and 10, and have at it. Tweaking is possible, just fyi.

I honestly think 5% is perfect, but if it were 7% or so, it'd still be in the realm of: average player 30k hp 50k dps can survive a fight vs 100k dps 40k hp, provided they have life on hit, and life regen. But if they don't survive - than, welcome to pvp. The dudes arguing above made moot points.

Life on hit, healing, life regen, life steal - in pvp, they'd have trivial effects. Life on hit and Regeneration being the only real factors.

Lets go ahead and consider them good pvp stats - whoopity do. So, 2k regen, 1k life on hit(If say this is also an average thing for those 30k hp, 50k dps players)... given that players use multiple skills, some dealing 200% weapon damage(twice your dps) and some dealing more, some even being conjur skills(hydra/pets), with 5%, and 50k dps, you're going to deal ~400 dps in pvp. Sounds like it's futile, right? Well, with 200% weap damage skills, and/or conjurs, as well as crit hits occuring on multiple strike skills, you'll do well over the dps amount. TO the tune of, say, 4-6 times that.
With that said, you're gonna deal well over the life on hit + regeneration of your opponent. And to be honest, if you're going for those stats, you're not doing inferno act 5+. So the argument that mp10 chars can wtfrape someone, is nonsensical. Ofcourse they can, they're mp10. You're mp1. You still won't die in 2 hits, 2 seconds, or 2 skills. You'll die in 10 seconds, or more if you run around. Hell, perhaps even consider pvp and revise what you have about your build options.
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Posts: 41
It never ceases to amaze me how people with no programming skills think something they want will be easy to code. Creating a PvP mode where damage against players and monster is different, regeneration is nerfed, durability loss is disabled, the player respawns where they die, and players lose 100,000 gold every time they're killed isn't easy to implement. It requires major changes.

Also why would anyone want to play in PvP when it's nothing but ganking (causing a loss of exp, gold, items), being killed every 2 minutes by stronger players, and losing 100,000 gold every time you die.

Oh one more thing, your maths is wrong for 2 reasons.

1) Given that many skills allow the player to attack rapidly, such as the Demon Hunter's Rapid Fire, 7-10 hits can occur in a few seconds (less if the player has a high attack speed). So the other player will have no time to respond before dying.

2) Some attacks do high multiples of the base damage, for example if a Demon Hunter's base attack was 100,000 and they used Rapid Fire (275% base damage) the damage of each arrow would be 275,000. This will do about 29K damage according to your reduction calculations, killing most players in 2-3 hits.

So high damage builds will dominate PvP because it will be very difficult to have enough life or defence to withstand them.


First off, it never ceases to amaze me how people who ignore reality, accuse others of having no concept of reality. You must be republican.

They added Monster power... What that did, was alter drop rates, alter drop amounts, alter exp gains, alter damage, alter HP, alter monster events(such as skill damage) and just about every other aspect of D3. So your point about adding a modifier to a character damage is nonsensical. Guess what bro, there are monsters which do this RIGHT NOW. Those tremors in act 3, which go into "turtle mode" already mitigate all damage by 95%. Add that as a pvp flag... Mission accomplished.

The nerf to regeneration was as a reply to that dudes complaint of the mechanic. But I agree with it, and disagree at the same time. Nerfing regen would work, but NOT nerfing it would work too.

Durability being removed is one of the easiest things to code. The event already exists right now - when they changed level 60 deaths to increase the cost of repairs, they can also make the event of a player death reduce or remove the cost of durability loss. This is absolutely simple. It's a 1 here and a zero there, my friend.

Players already respawn where they die. Where a player resurrects you, if killed by a player, you can resurrect yourself. The death timer already exists.

Losing 100k gold every time you're killed, is both NOT what I said, nor does it make sense given the objective to the durability loss removal during PVP would be moot. What I said was, Jay was intending on adding a purpose to PVP, an incentive if you will - Well, that can be achieved by creating an EVENT where, if killed by a player, you can return the favor and be awarded with a) experience - or b) 1% of their gold(capped at 100k... Meaning, they would have to have 10million gold. or higher to drop 100k when killed in retaliation.)

What major changes would this require, outside of adding a pvp element in general? pvp is a major change, in and of itself. You have to MAKE CHANGES for PVP, otherwise you will be dealing those 800k crits someone mentioned above, to players with 50k hp.

Please be smarter than this, if you want to respond to my topic.

Okay, now, onto your rapid fire example:

Yes. 275% weapon damage, you're right. Yep. Cool.

Math:
50k*2.75=137.5k dps

Armor 50%: 68,750
Resistances: 75%:17187.5

5% of that in PVP is a whopping: 859.375 dps.

Where is this 1-2 hit killing you're speaking of, again? And yes, 2-3 times a second, sure. Lets add that up:

859.375*2 = 1718.75 dps
859.375*3 = 2578.125 dps

hell, lets go BANANAS and make it 6 times per second(lolwut?)

859.375*6 = 5156.25 dps

Against a target with NO defense skills, and NO healing, at 30k HP, which would clearly NOT be a pvp build by any stretch of the means - would still take 6 seconds to die. So your target deconstruction of this idea, is flawed by a fundamental premise. Reality. I even gave you the benefit of an attack with 6 times per second, which is beyond possible. And with rapid fire, that translates into a whole lot of lol 6 seconds to kill me, when I'm standing still with gimpy non-pvp setups and no defensive skills.

Honestly, if you're going to talk about math - do your own.

In my reductions, 275k damage per hit, is not 29k dps in pvp if they're reduced first by 95%(5% damage dealt in pvp), then by 50%(armor), then by 75%(resists), then player skills(10-30% lets say).

The result is the same. Even high DPS characters doing 150k dps(like myself on a good day, when I'm not doing mp 8) will still take those 200% weapon damage skills, and kill a 30k hp player in 5-10 seconds. Guess what, though? There's no 1 hit kills. Like diablo 2. There's no insta gib deaths, like diablo 1. There's no super-smash pvp camping like most other pvp games, or respawnign in town and losing progression - there's timers, and requipping in town.

To be honest, you didn't even do the math you're giving, correctly. You must have missed resists and/or armor and/or the 5% factor, somewhere.

More over, you clearly didn't read the post. This is optional. Just like MP10. And nowhere in this suggestion, is it out of the realm of possibility, to code. I do know some coding. I have friends who code. And it's quite simple.
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how to fix PvP:

- remove entirely the item based attributes system
- skills with fixed damage
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I disagree. If you're going to suggest nonsense, do it with in reason.

If life regen is an issue, than, have an additional pvp-flag that stils all life regen, or, perhaps reduces it over a set duration. ie; 10 seconds.

I mean, life regen is ALREADY overpowered. It is singlehandedly the reason wizards took a beating on force armor.

But I agree with you. It is too difficult a skill to really adjust, as it can be vital in pve.

TLDR; pvp damage shuts down or reduces life regen to 10% of it's current/normal status? Or 25%, if you wanted to be technically fair. This would also have to apply to all healing and regeneration. Once a pvp engagement occurs, your healing, life regen and life steal is reduced along with your damage to another player, by 75-95%. I feel this is still an accurate method of implementing pvp.

I'd rather pvp in quests, than what is obviously ridiculous life regen anyways. Hell, I built my buddies monk with 3500 regen, and went pure defensive skills and 80 all res+60 phys resist on every piece I could, dude had 1600 resists. Didn't even take more than 3k damage/hit, and the hits come in every second and a half. with 30k hp, he laughed at everything. mp8.

I digress. I personally felt life regen should have been removed/revamped along with the damage nerf on inferno - but yes, life regen is a bit strong. For both pve and pvp.

You completely missed my point. Of course you can keep adjusting your proposal and making things more complicated whenever someone points out a flaw.

Thing is, you're just throwing random ideas around without much thought behind them and acting like implementing PvP is really simple when it's not nearly as simple as you made it out to be in the OP.
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Posts: 41
how to fix PvP:

- remove entirely the item based attributes system
- skills with fixed damage


"Fix" being a non-existent factor. PVP isn't broken, it's boring as an arena deathmatch mode.

It's never been held off from release because it's "broken". It's been held off and axed, now, because it's boring and 1 dimensional.

Item based attribute system is broken in and of itself. But it's math, and math is what is keeping pvp from "open world" pvp.

The issue is, when doing arena, they've likely coded some sort of "realm based damage mitigation". Well, remove this thought, and add the pvp flag scenario.

Damage dealt to players reduced by 95%, base. This trigger exists already within the NPC Tremor, in act 3, keep depths for example. Those big, turtling mobs with the defensive stance is all players need when attacking one another. With that, pvp is possible anywhere in Diablo3.

Please read the first post.
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Posts: 41
You completely missed my point. Of course you can keep adjusting your proposal and making things more complicated whenever someone points out a flaw.

Thing is, you're just throwing random ideas around without much thought behind them and acting like implementing PvP is really simple when it's not nearly as simple as you made it out to be in the OP.


My friend, I revised the OP to solve grammar issues, and to make things clearer so people such as yourself, could understand the points better.

I didn't completely miss your point, as I've addressed it several times over, in multiple responses across this topic. Please read the thread, before accusing me of delivering a Jay Wilson solution to the feedback I'm getting.

Things are simply not more complicated. They're elaborated.

You say 100k dps translates into 625 dps, correct?

625 dps is both relative, and recognized by skills. Spectral blades, for example, does 165% weapon damage. Not including runes.

625 becomes 1031.25

Criticals landing multiple times in succession, at 25% chance, could turn that into 1500-2k dps as it were.

Now, lets factor in hydra(67% damage), venom magic weapon(5% damage/second), deep cuts(15% damage/second), blizzard, arcane orbit, explosive blast... I'd alpha for like 10k, with 6s cd on explosive - and be doing closer to 4-6k dps over the course of the fight. And if my target didn't fight back, I'd surely kill him, standing still, in a good 10 seconds.

10 seconds is quite some time, in pvp fighting games. Ever play borderlands? The duels in that last a total of .5 seconds. 1 shot kills. Dueling in d2, lasted a whopping 1.5 seconds, with latency.

I mean, yes, you're right. I moved on from your point. But I didn't, as well. I addressed it, several times over.

With 2k regen, 1k life on hit, 5% lifesteal and the two monk healing skills every 10 seconds, I'd still kill the monk with my 100k dps if he stood still healing himself.

But then, I'd also die, despite having more damage than him - because all I have is diamond skin. He'd need less dps, less tank and more running around, to kill me. Because skill matters, too.

Heh, I added in diamond skin... That's 7 skills. I wish. Take out arcane orbit, and add in a defensive skill - probably smart in pvp, eh'? The result is the same. It's significant enough damage to make a fight last 10-20 seconds, given the target is dynamic, not static.
Edited by Descyphal#1107 on 12/27/2012 5:30 PM PST
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I would like to see it like what other players did that did not gank. The ones that made PvP games for that purpose. Where there would be a new UI button on the character screen it would say join PvP game. The game would be the same as a normal PvE game but you could go hostile on anyone at any time like D2. But without the ability to gank. Meaning it would be a new feature that players using it would know that they are getting into PvP when they hit join. Instead of being instantly involved in PvP when we do not want to PvP, which is what ganking was all about.
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