Diablo® III

Can we please get past stat point complaints?

OP is one of the dumbest things I have ever read on this forum since launch...literally.
Reply Quote
The main reason for the complaints is that it forces Blizz to shift the point allocation to the gear...which causes, well, the gear fiasco we have now. 99.9% of gear becomes garbage...*not* less than perfect, but actual garbage, and that which isn't, pretty much everybody wants, so it's insanely valuable.
Reply Quote
improve>remove
choices>no choices

bottom line
Reply Quote
Is the OP confusing stat points with skill points?

Skill points, and the absence of them, is one of the leading causes of failure in this game, here's how:

    1) No skill points mean that in stead of having two or three different barbs, with different builds, you only need one.

    2) That means of course that 150 hours of playing time gets trimmed down to 50 (that's just a random number, everybody spends different amounts of time playing a character, just imagine that it's reduced by a factor of 2 or 3)

    3) Number 1 also means that, because you only have one character, you only need one set of gear, which means that the market is getting flooded with the same amount of gear but for one third the number of characters.

    4) Replayability/end game; people have complained at length about a lack of end game, and in some sense been placated by things like the infernal machine (late DII ubers, by no means a good sign, an early indication of this games death), and paragon levels (a boring extra grind with only passive benefits, nothing interactive). Making new characters was part of end game for a lot of people. In Diablo II, I had at least 10 characters with different builds, and well geared after playing for probably a thousand hours. DIII, I couldn't pain myself to level up my third character even though leveling is usually my favorite part of the game, because leveling is so fruitless.


Finally, what I'd like to know is how did stat and/or skill points harm DII? Many people want stat/skill points because there is no down side, it wouldn't hurt anybody or anything. If you claim about experimentation, just make the most recent 5 points respeccable, or a respec quest or something. Their presence provided a lot more game experience, and their absence is a wretched, idiotic, and unbelievable deficit to the game.
Reply Quote
Posts: 334
im pretty sure that we allocate stat points by choosing our gear...

i mean look at all the barbs?

Str High
Dex Low
Vit High
Int Low

if we were not able to allocate stat points it would look more like

Str Set
Dex Set
Vit Set
Int Set

The reason people complain is because d3 is decent at best when compared to diablo 2, for many reasons. D3 does have great potential tho. I think youre mixing up stat and skill points.

using skills with free swaps and runes needs fixing imo. I prefer +skill items and skill trees with points over what we have now.
Edited by PmP#1205 on 1/1/2013 8:09 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 14,245
View profile


Not according to the video I seen where Jay spoke about why stat points were removed. He said that stat points were removed. Because players would figure out the optimal path and in time everyone would be using the optimal path. He said that the players are not smarter than the devs are.


I saw that video as well and in it he said they did not removed the stats they just shifted them to the items which is why we have such poor itemization. Basic stats and items need to be separated.


But any manual stat point system would have to have depth in order for it to work and give us true customization. A system where if you put 100 points into armor and I put 100 points into dodge. We both get about the same result. Your character would be tougher than mine, but mine would dodge more often. A trade off where the performance of our character does not suffer one bit for trading armor for dodge.

The simple system we have now, manual stat points would not work at all. Manual stat points in D3's current set up would mean players would dump all stats into main stat/vitality.
Reply Quote
Posts: 14,245
View profile
Is the OP confusing stat points with skill points?

Skill points, and the absence of them, is one of the leading causes of failure in this game, here's how:

    1) No skill points mean that in stead of having two or three different barbs, with different builds, you only need one.

    2) That means of course that 150 hours of playing time gets trimmed down to 50 (that's just a random number, everybody spends different amounts of time playing a character, just imagine that it's reduced by a factor of 2 or 3)

    3) Number 1 also means that, because you only have one character, you only need one set of gear, which means that the market is getting flooded with the same amount of gear but for one third the number of characters.

    4) Replayability/end game; people have complained at length about a lack of end game, and in some sense been placated by things like the infernal machine (late DII ubers, by no means a good sign, an early indication of this games death), and paragon levels (a boring extra grind with only passive benefits, nothing interactive). Making new characters was part of end game for a lot of people. In Diablo II, I had at least 10 characters with different builds, and well geared after playing for probably a thousand hours. DIII, I couldn't pain myself to level up my third character even though leveling is usually my favorite part of the game, because leveling is so fruitless.


Finally, what I'd like to know is how did stat and/or skill points harm DII? Many people want stat/skill points because there is no down side, it wouldn't hurt anybody or anything. If you claim about experimentation, just make the most recent 5 points respeccable, or a respec quest or something. Their presence provided a lot more game experience, and their absence is a wretched, idiotic, and unbelievable deficit to the game.


There are downsides, the main one is that there is only an illusion of customization. The only way a manual point system (both stat/skill points) would work is if it has some depth. Where spending your points into path A would be just as viable as path B. Where your character's performance is about the same. The only difference between A and B is primarily play style.

Stat points were spent in D2 according to the following formula. A formula btw that I discovered without looking it up and I am not a top notch theorycrafter. Strength enough for gear, dex enough for max block, and the rest into vitality, absolutely zero into energy unless you are an energy shield sorc. This is what the majority done with their stat points.

Skill points was not much difference. Max out your spammable skill along with it's synergies to give it the punch it needs and you are done. I could quite easily plan out a bonemancer and only take about 10 minutes (not counting the gear).

In fact Blizz tried the skill points but the players in the tests were just dumping them into the higher skills, when they got the next higher tier they just repec'd and dumped all of their points into the next higher tiered skill. Players were not using all six skill slots.
Reply Quote
Posts: 14,245
View profile
The answer is pretty simple OP, there are actually 2 reasons for adding them.

1. People can create their own character how they see fit (NO not everyone will make a cookie cutter build, only very few will, you might be one of them I'm guessing)

2. Having stat points may actually make most of the useless crap we find actually worth using by having the stat points offset the stats which we are missing elsewhere creating a far more balanced character.

Lacking in the all resistance department but are stacked everywhere else? Well dump a pile of points into intelligence then, problem solved. Not carrying enough dps but have tons of gear which add to everything else? Well add points into whatever stat affects your dps.. problem solved. With this though, obviously an option to re-allocate stat points would be needed.


Cookie cutter builds are used by more players than you imagine, they are popular because they are the most efficient. Watch any streaming video of a barb doing an Alkaiser run and you will see it is a WW barb of some kind. More so if the gap between the WW barb and the rest is huge. if not using a WW barb means that you will lose about 40% of your character's performance, you can imagine what route the majority will take.

One your second point there are not enough stat points to do what you are saying. we would have to get way more stat points than 1,120 (100 plvl and level 60)

So what would happen in a manual stat point system is players would just spend them into main stat/vitality.
Reply Quote
70 Tauren Paladin
13565
Posts: 2,870
The answer is pretty simple OP, there are actually 2 reasons for adding them.

1. People can create their own character how they see fit (NO not everyone will make a cookie cutter build, only very few will, you might be one of them I'm guessing)

2. Having stat points may actually make most of the useless crap we find actually worth using by having the stat points offset the stats which we are missing elsewhere creating a far more balanced character.

Lacking in the all resistance department but are stacked everywhere else? Well dump a pile of points into intelligence then, problem solved. Not carrying enough dps but have tons of gear which add to everything else? Well add points into whatever stat affects your dps.. problem solved. With this though, obviously an option to re-allocate stat points would be needed.


Cookie cutter builds are used by more players than you imagine, they are popular because they are the most efficient. Watch any streaming video of a barb doing an Alkaiser run and you will see it is a WW barb of some kind. More so if the gap between the WW barb and the rest is huge. if not using a WW barb means that you will lose about 40% of your character's performance, you can imagine what route the majority will take.

One your second point there are not enough stat points to do what you are saying. we would have to get way more stat points than 1,120 (100 plvl and level 60)

So what would happen in a manual stat point system is players would just spend them into main stat/vitality.


Unless there are more uses to stats than just black and white damage etc.

E.g the way PoE does it - Strength gives you HPs + melee physical damage (+ ranged physical damage with certain talents). Dexterity gives you chance to hit + evasion. Intelligence gives you mana and energy shield. In addition, all weapons/armor have different requirements of stats, some require 2 different stats., e.g Armor+Energy Shield chestpieces will require intelligence + strength, a short sword will require Dexterity + Strength, etc etc.

So, your average warrior will require Strength and Dexterity to function well. How far he goes down each road is dependent on what gear he wants, how important not missing is to him, whether he's investing in energy shields, whether he's in need of mana due to heavy mana cost reservations from certain auras etc. Your Shadow (thief) will almost certainly need a mix of all - intelligence for energy shields, dex for weapon/armor requirements and strength for health and physical damage.

Instead of improving on D2s system (which was, admittedly a simple case of enough str to wear your best gear, dex for block cap if you wanted it and the rest into vit) Blizzard chose to remove it. It's not an "illusion of choice", as you and Jay seem to believe. Every bit of customization adds personality to your character - it's yours, not some premade that everyone else has.

Also - what's your infatuation with "everyone choosing the same builds"? That's simply a developmental failure, well-known to be a major problem with D3. There were plenty of builds in D2 - some best for mfing, some best for rushing, some best for pking, some best for duelling, some best for killing certain bosses etc. Don't believe me? Go read a fansite, builds section. You don't just see one build there that everyone uses. People had plenty of fun playing things other than the 1 best spec.

And please, for pity's sake, don't reply with one of your long, boring, pointless posts about how you can instantly see through PoEs passive tree, immediately know what's best and instantly rendering the game pointless - not interested.
Reply Quote
1. Rerolling is a lot of fun to people. A game that has depth requires learning about it. A simple game like D3 requires no learning and look how boring people find it to be.

2. You say "handful of viable builds" you might want to go check out Path of Exile. It has far more than a handful of viable builds so your 3rd point is just wrong. You can actually play the game according to your playstyle instead of being pigeonholed into whatever the devs decide should be powerful enough for the end game.
Reply Quote

And please, for pity's sake, don't reply with one of your long, boring, pointless posts about how you can instantly see through PoEs passive tree, immediately know what's best and instantly rendering the game pointless - not interested.


That would be dumb considering he has never played it.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,073
When did stat point allocation become a requirement for role playing games? JRPGs seemed to be doing fine without them for the past 20+ years.
Reply Quote
70 Tauren Paladin
13565
Posts: 2,870

And please, for pity's sake, don't reply with one of your long, boring, pointless posts about how you can instantly see through PoEs passive tree, immediately know what's best and instantly rendering the game pointless - not interested.


That would be dumb considering he has never played it.


He barely plays either game yet speaks as if he understands the nuances of both - it's tiresome but hey, what can ya do.
Reply Quote
Apparently the person who created this thread doesn't understand the difference between adding statistical points and skill points versus not adding them and just having a bunch of lame "runed" skills to "choose" from. Back in Diablo 2, I made tons of builds and not all of them were "optimal" builds, and yet they worked just fine. Apparently OP just isn't creative or is lazy with character creation. Back in Diablo 2 years, I actually wanted more choices, not less like we got with Diablo 3.
Reply Quote
Imagine if all your stat points were on your character instead of on your gear. Then all of your gear could have a plethora of cool affixes, yielding more diversity. Honestly, it wouldn't matter if you assigned the points or not, as long they were on your character and not on your gear.
Reply Quote
70 Tauren Paladin
13565
Posts: 2,870
01/02/2013 01:06 AMPosted by Philoi
Apparently the person who created this thread doesn't understand the difference between adding statistical points and skill points versus not adding them and just having a bunch of lame "runed" skills to "choose" from. Back in Diablo 2, I made tons of builds and not all of them were "optimal" builds, and yet they worked just fine. Apparently OP just isn't creative or is lazy with character creation. Back in Diablo 2 years, I actually wanted more choices, not less like we got with Diablo 3.


Amen to that. Upgrading concepts > removing concepts in the name of simplification and "illusion of choice".
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,113
View profile
I have made reference to the stat points only to show how much of the decision making was taken out of our hands.

But you should understand the old D2 attribute system where each attribute had other purposes then life, damage, and resistance. If you remember or know about an old Non video game called Dungeons & Dragons, the use of attributes and items of D2 mirrored that game.

For instance, an item would have minimum strength, dex, or intelligence to use the item. So if my wizard wanted the high defense armor and carry a heavy weapon, I would need more strength than some other wizard. Put this in real life and it makes sense. I could never wear heavy chest armor or pick up any two hand weapon because I not strong enough. I will be limited and restricted on my choices based on my attributes.
Reply Quote
01/02/2013 01:11 AMPosted by Khendo
Imagine if all your stat points were on your character instead of on your gear. Then all of your gear could have a plethora of cool affixes, yielding more diversity. Honestly, it wouldn't matter if you assigned the points or not, as long they were on your character and not on your gear.


This, a thousand times this !
Reply Quote
70 Tauren Paladin
13565
Posts: 2,870
01/02/2013 03:05 AMPosted by JoeMaorian
I think people like skill tress and stat points, because they are autistic. Diablo games and d3 are games for autistic people who like to repeat the same process over and over and keep improving it any way they can, that way d2 was actually better, because it forced you to reroll chars, rethink skills etc satisfying the autism more. The thing is - its all really pointless.


What in life isn't? Playing golf is pointless. Throwing darts is pointless.

But having more things to do in a game is better than fewer. I wouldn't just want to sit at a driving range all afternoon when I could be experiencing the whole game.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]